Tips on First Land?

I've been a Premium member for almost a week now. One of my usual 'things to do' is to pull up a list of Land filtered for "First Land" since I haven't chosen my piece of SL yet. And so far I haven't seen anything on the list at all.

I understand that it goes quickly, and I understand that the Lindens put some out there periodically for new folks. But I also understand that there are some established players who purposely create alts to snatch up the parcels, some of them possibly even using the land scanners to find optimum sites first. I'm pretty sure unattended land purchases could be scripted fairly easily. (Right?)

So my question is, when's the best time to look for First Land? Would I be better off just going ahead and finding an inexpensive parcel somewhere to build on? (I'd like to try my hand at building things and it's just not convenient without your own land). Has First Land been put up over the last week and I just missed it? Does it go that fast?

Thanks for any input

Cindy

Hi Cindy

It is worth waiting for some more First Land to become available. You only pay 1L$ per square metre ie 512L$ - the cheapest land in SL. And if you eventually decide to sell it to tier up, you will get a lot more money than you paid for it. It has been know for some land barons to try to buy first land from new residents for a lot less than its worth, so if anyone offers to buy your plot, first check around what other plots are being sold for in your sim.

As to when first land appears and how quickly it disappears, it really depends on when LL sets land for the purpose. Best to check each day you come on. You can only buy first land once, after that you have to pay the market rate which is a great deal more expensive.

As for building, you know you can get some work in before you get your land, by going to one of the sandboxes scattered around the world. The added bonus is that if you get stuck, you may find someone who can help you with your problem. You are allowed to use 117 prims on 512sqm, so perhaps save the magical castle until you have more land

Good luck with your search and I hope you continue to enjoy SL to the full.

Alexa

My advice would be to be patient - and wait for some first land to become available. Try to resist the temptation to just purchase some land now from another player for immediate gratification - you'll make yourself ineligible for First Land at that point.

One thing you could do in the interim, is either rent a plot from folks like Prokofy Neva or Timmy Night - or lease a plot from folks like Anshe Chung or Adam Zarius. Doing it this way will not count against the 'First Land' rule - and you'll be able to take advantage of it once it becomes available. There are others that offer this kind of service - those are just the first names that come to mind.

If you do decide to lease or rent, make sure you understand everything that is required of you, or any restrictions before you take the plunge - and you'll be fine.

Hope this helps!

It's not as bad as you think. Scripts cannot be used to buy land "unattended". And land scanners are not used to find First Land.

Good thought Travis. I would also suggest Hiro Queso for renting land, his islands are beautiful and I rent from him, having put my own land up for sale.

The only restrictions on his islands are no malls or clubs or events which suits me just fine. Cindy, if you consider the renting route and would like to see what you can get for your money, please feel free to IM me and I will show you around the island I am currently on.

Alexa

One of the challenges with first land is that it is usually in a newer sim and you never know what is going to pop up around you. So, many of us bought our first land with the intent of selling it and finding a better spot. There are some great notecards that have been put together up in the Land and the Economy forums, very worth a read.

There are a lot of good deals to be had up in the new continent, the drawback is that lack of telehubs (for many this is precisely why they bought there) which increases travel time for anyone looking for you, but decreases the odds that you will have a mall go up next door. As long as you can set your home to your land, the lack of telehubs is not an issue. This makes the new continent a great spot for a private homestead where you would rather not have fly by traffic and people dropping in unannouced, but a lousy one for a retail location. So, it depends a lot on what want to do with your land. A homestead has differing location needs than store.

The problem with land is, of course, that a little usually isn't enough and you end up wanting more.

Great advice, guys, thank you. I didn't know that purchasing land made you ineligible -- I haven't done so yet, but a friend of mine did

Alexa, I also appreciate your offer! I may be IM'ing you this weekend if you're around!

As for mucking about with prims, I know about the sandboxes. But it's just not the same as creating something you want to keep and modify for yourself.

Cindy

Yes, the consequences didn't quite hit me until after I ran yet another search for First Land (out of habit) from my newly purchased first lot.

That being said, I must be an instant gratification type of person, so I'm not too displeased to have gone for plan B and bought a lot with a view and neighbourhood that I liked. No mall or club outside my door.

If you can bear it, I'd probably wait for First Land before throwing money out of the window though. It's true that, if nothing else, you can resell it, most likely at a tidy profit.

A question for the helpful posters in this thread: Is it possible to set-up my land so that both Cindy and I are owners, administrators or whatever you call it and can edit the land and its contents without having to exclude everyone else from entering it?

Wendel

You would have to create a group (for which you need a third person). However, you can grant each other modify rights on each other's objects. But, in order to edit land or plant trees, you either need to be an owner or part of the group.

You can give each permission of the content without being co-owners. The only way for both of you to edit the land would be by deeding the land to a group of which you were both officers. A group requires three people, however, and is cited as a reason for the creation an alt account elsewhere in the forum.

Also, there are now 2 telehubs in the Northern Continent changing the accessibility of those sims.

live help has a notecard about land (and other topics):

GUIDE; LAND BUYING ADVICE FOR NEW RESIDENTS
---------------------------------------------------------------------
land, buy, tier, rent, own

Hello and welcome to Second Life!

Here is some advice that should make your land buying experience more pleasant.

1. Caveat Emptor - Buyer Beware.
2. You don't need land for Second Life to be enjoyable.
3. Owning land means you have to pay monthly fees.
4. Buy or rent.
5. Plot size matters.
6. Start with Land for the Landless first.
7. Location! Location! Location!
8. You can buy land from Linden Labs directly through the land auctions.
9. Become familiar with land prices.
10. Your Friends can help.
11. Negotiate.
12. Things change.
13. If you have a problem... ask for help.


1. CAVEAT EMPTOR - BUYER BEWARE

Buyer beware. Or at least be aware. Learn what you can about buying land, why you want it, and what you can do with it. The advice in this notecard should keep you out of most land trouble, but in the end you are responsible for your decisions.

2. YOU DON'T NEED LAND FOR SECOND LIFE TO BE ENJOYABLE

To enjoy Second Life you do not need land. Though it can make things much more enjoyable.

Owning land is best if you want to:
* Build permanent structures, like a home or business. The more land you own, the more permanent objects you can have out.
* Have a retreat for you and your freinds that's always available.
* Have more control over what can and can't be done and who can and can't be there.
* Play with the land tools. (Terraforming is a blast!)

3. OWNING LAND MEANS YOU HAVE TO PAY MONTHLY FEES

If you own any land, you will be paying a monthly land tier fee in US$. For details about this check out:
http://secondlife.com/land/index.php
http://secondlife.com/faq.php

4. BUY OR RENT

You can "own" SL land directly. If you own SL land, you will need to pay monthly tier fees to Linden Labs.

OR

You can pay for the use of land from other players on the mainland. You can also "rent" land from other players in island sims (off the mainland) which is more like ownership; you will have access to land control features. Neither of these two options require you to have land tier, so you will not need to pay tier fees to Linden Labs. For more information about renting read this notecard:

?

5. PLOT SIZE MATTERS

Avoid buying lots smaller than 512 sq.m. at first.

Considering that the smallest amount of land rights you can pay for is 512 sq.m., and that you can get 512 sq.m for cheap through the First Land program, you should only seriously consider buying a 512 sq.m. lot at first.

6. START WITH LAND FOR THE LANDLESS FIRST

Linden Labs has a program where new residents can buy 512 sq.m. for L$512. You can only do this if you have not previously owned land. More details at: http://secondlife.com/land/index.php

At L$1/sq.m. you can't beat this price, and you can eventually sell this land for a tidy profit. But before you do sell your land, learn what it is you can do with SL land. This is a great opportunity to do that.

To find first land:
1. In the SL, click the Find button at the bottom of the screen.
2. Select the Land Sales tab.
3. Select First Land from the dropdown menu.
4. Click Search.

This should list the First Land you can buy. Sometime all the first land is gone; Linden Labs adds more land regularly so you shouldn't need to wait too long for new land to show up.

7. LOCATION! LOCATION! LOCATION!

When you finally decide to buy a new lot, go look at it. What are the neighbors like? Is it conveniently located for you? Do you like the geography? Does the sim host many events (which cause lag)? Is it close to your friends or favorite hang outs? Or what ever other considerations matter to you.

8. YOU CAN BUY LAND FROM LINDEN LABS DIRECTLY THROUGH THE LAND AUCTIONS

You can buy land directly from Linden Labs through the land auctions. Some plots available at auction will be priced in Linden Dollars (L$), and others in US dollars. The auctions are located at:
http://secondlife.com/auctions/index.php

9. BECOME FAMILIAR WITH LAND PRICES (L$/sq.m.)

Before you buy (or sell) land you really should look at the Find->Land Sales window. Look at what land prices for the rating and size you want are. Also, look at the auctions to see what land is going for there.

You should not have to buy at the highest land prices to get land you want, if you research land prices before hand.

10. YOUR FRIENDS CAN HELP

If you let your friends know you want to buy land, then they may help you find a good lot at a good deal. And it might be nice and close to your friends.

11. NEGOTIATE

The price listed is not fixed. The land owner can set the price to whatever they want. If you ask nicely, the land owner may lower the price for you.

12. THINGS CHANGE

Even after you buy your land, you will find that Second Life changes greatly from day to day. One day your neighbor is an empty lot, and the next it may be an ivory tower or an ugly box.

If you don't like what's there now, wait around, it might change to something new in a couple days.

13. IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM... ASK FOR HELP

The advice in this notecard does not cover everything that can happen in a land deal. If you have a problem ask for help. Ask your friends, Live Help (help menu->Live Help...), on the forums, e-mail [email]support@secondlife.com[/email] or if worst come to worst, search for someone online with the last name "Linden". They are employees of Second Life and are there to help you.


-----------------
contributor:
- StoneSelf Karuna

Specials Thanks to:
Talen Morgan, Schwanson Schlegel, Camille Serpentine, katykiwi Moonflower, Almarea Lumiere, Darko Cellardoor, Zsinj Xevious, Cristiano Midnight, Billy Grace, Misnomer Jones, Rysidian Rubio, Planet Mars, Lisse Livingston, Traxx Hathor, Ardith Mifflin, Roberta Dalek, Juro Kothari, Alexa Hope, Merwan Marker, Iron Perth, Jillian Callahan, Pendari Lorentz

Thanks, Stoneself. I'd read the card already -- just forgot some of what it said.

Wendel gave me edit/create rights on his plot last night. I created a tree and fiddled with it. 30 minutes later, it was placed back in my inventory. So I'm guessing that while you can give rights, you can only place objects on your land if you are the owner or in the owner's group.

Now I'm carrying a tree in my purse

Cindy

He, he. Actually, I set the land to send back to its owner any object placed there after 30 minutes. Just in case you wanted to put rude graffitis on the rock.

More seriously, I was experimenting with that setting. Feel free to reset it to 0 in the properties tab (It's called soemthing like "Send object back to owner after:".

Wendel

Thats one of those things that make me smile and remind me why I love SL so much.

Others have given great advice and I have nothing to add to that, but I would like to again stress that patience is a key to SL. Not only regarding land, but in many other aspects. I have seen so many be all gung ho and excited about SL and jump in like gangbusters, only to be disappointed and defeated a week later because they expected instant success. Any thing you decide to do, look at the big picture and miles down the road. It takes time to get established here, do what you do for the joy of it and the rewards will follow.

also, check for established neighbors. I bought land in a brand new sim, was lovely, wide open, but within days, there was a mall and a club within spitting distance of my house. So much for the view.

I promptly sold that land, and moved to a quieter place with an established community. Which in turn, I sold, and bought some land on an island.

Loki, that's great advice and you're about the 50th person who's told me -- I think it's starting to finally sink in now It's not easy for someone impatient like me, who sees all the wonderful things more-experienced SLers are doing and wanting SO bad to be a part of all that fun.

I'll get there. I'm spending my afternoon reading scripts and browsing the boards since my normal daily routine is done already. Now if they'd only let me install SL here at work

I'll just keep watching the land sales, and if I miss the next batch I'll watch for the batch after that. Meanwhile I'm trying to learn and slowly build up my cash. When I think about it, I've actually done pretty well for a first week. Ask me again in a year

Cindy

A reminder that the land list does not contain every single piece of first land. Sometimes it only contains one representative piece out of a larger batch and pieces might be left. The best way to shop for it is to look at it in person, so fly around new sim areas with the "land owners" ticked off in "edit preferences" so you can see it highlighted.

I think it's worth shopping and waiting a bit, but why take forever? Find something you like, then sell it and trade up later. It's always going to sell at a profit, i.e. more than $512, it's just a question of how much more.

Well, the good news is that some First Land came on the market list tonight. By the time I got there, about half of it had been taken but I managed to grab a 512 on level ground, at the edge of a cliff. Now to watch the market and decide what I want to do with it

Cindy

There is one thing I spotted in Stoneself's notecard, which might put people off buying land if they take it at face value. Its this:


It is true that to become a premium member at all, there is of course a monthly subscription. But you might become a premium member simply to get the weekly salary or "stipend" of L$500. You may then go on to own land with no addition to your monthly fee at all, provided you hold no more than 512 square meters (referred to as 512m). Which of course is exactly the size of a first land plot.

There is one more aspect which new people responding to adverts for cheaplooking land need to be aware of, particularly since some such adverts are tailored exactly to be attractive to them, and may even speak of "starter land". If you are to consider this, it is vital you fully understand what is being offered, and the pluses and minuses (there are lots of both). I prepared a notecard. Some older players have suggested that this information is too complex for new people to handle, but I think that since they are certainly being deliberately faced with the "sales pitch" for this, and at a time when everything may still be very confusing, they definitely need to know. Here it is :

________________________________________________________

Land Leasing Pros and Cons - or when is a Sale Not a Sale ?

Some residents may offer to "sell you land" which they "own" when in fact they are selling not land, but a transferable (resellable) rental agreement or lease giving the right to occupy land belonging to a landlord, who is another resident. These leases are often priced just below normal land value, and can appear misleadingly similar. You may be offered one of these by the landlord himself, who will hopefully be quite careful to explain the implications to you, or by the present leaseholder, who needs you to replace him and can normally charge you any "price" he likes, and whose communication skills may not be quite so good. If you are to consider this you need to be careful to understand the advantages and disadvantages of occupying land in this way. Detailed pros and cons are laid out below.

The big disadvantage: The Lindens have warned that you are entirely reliant on your landlord's honesty and continued presence in the game. He can evict you (or everyone) without compensation at any moment, so that you may lose your "purchase price", and LL have stated will they not intervene, or discipline him in any way. The lease is currently a private non-enforceable agreement between you and him. No such fraud has yet occurred, but the potential is there. There may be other risks associated with him falling ill, failing to make his payments to SL, or simply losing interest.

The big advantage: Your landlord may promise to act as a private police force, enforcing standards of behaviour and building quality in a way which LL will not. He will normally have a set of rules and guidelines which you and everyone else must obey on peril of land forfeiture. These "private sims" can look very nice, can be free of malls, clubs, and greifers, and can have attractive "themes".

Other aspects to consider are: Acquiring a plot, and transferring it to others, requires the attendance of the landlord, who alone has the power to do these things. You have to form a group to hold the lease (so that the landlord can act through it). This needs two other players, and costs L$100 to form. If you dont have two other players you trust, you can create two more characters (known as "alts" at a one-off cost of US19.90 (currently, May 2005, about L$5000). Apart from your inability to sell and advertise it normally via the "about land" dialogue (because the landlord still owns it) you have all the normal controls over your land. This only became possible recently, which is why this form of leasing is currently so new.

Since you are not the landowner, you do not need to pay a monthly (premium) subscription, thus saving US$9.95 per month (currently about L$2500). This is not as valuable as it looks, because paying it gets you L$1800 per month in extra stipend, which you lose if you stop. Neither (obviously) do you pay tier (land fees) to LL. Instead you pay rent directly to your landlord, which he may himself call "tier".

Many landlords fix this rent at the same level as the tier you would otherwise pay as owner. (Though remember that LL charges no tier for 512m - this is why most leases offer 1024m minimum - the landlord cant afford to match LL's free 512m offer.) But any other pricing or timing arrangement is possible - whatever the landlord offers, and you agree. This rent flexibility can provide a further advantage in that you may be able to hold amounts of land sized just above a LL "tier boundary" whilst only paying a small proportional rent increment.

The key to recognising when you are being offered a lease rather than full land ownership is that you will be unable to buy the land on your own simply by clicking it, but will need someone to come transfer it to you, or will be referred to a website for details on "how to buy".

The tone on these cards still remains far, far too nasty, too much incitement of suspicions of land-barons, and one land-baron in particular.

There's nothing wrong with offering newbies starter land of $512 just like the Lindens. The Lindens do not put out much of it. They run out of it a lot lately. And they don't make themed, zoned sims. So furries, for example, can come in the new zoned sim for furries and buy starter land.

There are a number of featuers you've left out:

1. First land is in terrible locations -- next to other first land, in the middle of the sim. It is often quickly crapped up, blocked, surrounded by ugly builds, partly sold out to land dealers who then can't re-sell it, etc. etc. The batch last night were positioned at an "end of the world" lot in which many newbies won't realize they aren't getting a final, waterfront or EOW parcel but a parcel that will in a few weeks be situated next to another piece of land in another sim, where if they buy, they don't get the prims, or where they will find they are looking at the butt end of a mall.

2. In Ansheland, a new person could link 2 512s together for $1/meter if they wish, but in Lindenland they cannot, only one per customer at the rate of $512.

3. Many new people are happy to pay a landlord $150-$250 (as I've found) for a 512 in a nice location, or use their 512 tier to pay rent for a 512 or higher, while they save up for larger land. They could also be saving while they sit on their newbie first land, but in many cases it is easy so crapped up they can't live on it, or they just see the advantage of selling it immediately and living off their stipend for a few weeks.

4. Some people like to rent a 512 because that's their free leftover after their tier level, i.e. they are at the $15 tier level, they already have a home or shop at 2048 so they use the free one to put in a group elsewhere to get a small getaway or shop.

It's great that there are people providing diversity of offers in this game and diversifying the economy.

This is a very helpful discussion. Thanks to all of you.

I have my 512 now, but after browsing some house designs I realize that about the only thing that will fit on a mere 512 is about the size of an outhouse. I have grander designs in mind, but not until I can amass the kind of income that will support it longterm.

So unless someone has some suggestions, I think I'll putter around on it with creating things and sell it at some point. No house yet

Cindy

That's true. Although it's not all doom and gloom. When I was looking at some nice lots in a bay, you could get a very nice looking little house over the water with a nice terrace to watch the sunsets on on that size of land. But what you get is basically 1 room and a bit worth of land. What you can do, from what I gather, is build several floors, increasing your living space. But it will still remain quite cramped.

That's one of the reasons why I purchased a 1024sqm lot. With a house on 2 floors, I'll be able to breathe a bit. It won't be huge but there will be space, Unfortunately, the monthly subscription price would increase more than I'd like to pay if I were to upgrade (tier up) to the 2048sqm allowance (remember that the extra cost is not so much in-game as in what you pay for your subscription every month). So it's all about compromise.

Like you, I'm at least quite excited about having my own little playground. Let's make some things!

Wendel

There are a few houses specifically made for first-land to fit on the 512s. They aren't always the best-looking because of lack of prims and size. It's good to experiment and try making your own first-land house because this area of the market is severely under-developed -- there are a few freebies out there that many use but it contributes to the cookie-cutter look of first-land areas.

Some builders who have inexpensive or free items to fit on first land include Juro Kothari Barnesworth Anubis, Bill Stirling, Planet Mars. Most builders don't take the time to cater to this market I guess because few people remain on 512s for long.

to own any land you will need to pay ll a monthly fee - even if it is "only" the subscription fee.

renting is a different thing. i put a short notecard about renting together, too. (well other people provided the info, and i put it together, and surreal farber did the final formatting)

GUIDE: LAND RENTING ADVICE FOR NEW RESIDENTS
-------------------------------------------------------------------
land, buy, tier, rent, own

Hello and welcome to Second Life!

Here is some advice that should make your land renting experience more pleasant.

1. Caveat Emptor - Renter Beware.
2. You don't need land for Second Life to be enjoyable.
3 Renting versus Owning Land
4. Land or property?
5. Mainland or island?
6. Plot size matters.
7. Location! Location! Location!
8. Your Friends can help.
9. If you have a problem... ask for help.

1. CAVET EMPTOR - RENTER BEWARE

Renter beware. Or at least be aware. Learn what you can about renting land, why you want it, and what you can do with it. The advice in this notecard should keep you out of most land trouble, but in the end you are responsible for your decisions. Renting is different from ownership - the landlord makes the rules and each landlord is different. Check what you are committing to before you pay.

2. YOU DON'T NEED LAND FOR SECOND LIFE TO BE ENJOYABLE

To enjoy Second Life you do not need land.

Renting land is best if you want to:
* Have a shop in a popular place.
* Are a basic account holder.
* Want to live in a community with rules (a zoned community).
* Want to pay in Linden$ rather than US$.
* Want to move when you want.

3. RENTING VERSUS OWNING

You can "own" SL land directly. If you own SL land, you will need to pay monthly tier fees to Linden Labs.

€

OR

You can pay for the use of land from other players on the mainland. You can also "rent" land from other players in island sims (off the mainland) which can be more like ownership; you can have access to land control features. Neither of these two options require you to have land tier, so you will not need to pay tier fees to Linden Labs. The main difference between ownership and renting island sim land is that the owner can at reclaim the land from you at anytime.

4. LAND OR PROPERTY

You can rent a bare piece of land or land that has been developed in some way. Developed land generally costs more and it may already have a house or apartment on it. If you want to build rent a bare plot of land. If you like the idea of just moving into a house then rent land with a house or apartment on. There are also many suppliers of prefab houses to choose from.

5. MAINLAND OR ISLAND

You can rent land on the mainland, or on islands with their own rules. Each island has different rules - *find out the rules before you pay*.

Some landlords will deed your land to a group of your choice. This will allow you more control such as terraforming, admit and ban lists. Some landlords may call this ownership and ask for an upfront fee (to "purchase". Some landlords don't and will deed to group for a normal weekly rent.

If a landlord calls the land owned rather than rented they may expect you to find a replacement.

Many islands are themed and have rules. You may only be able to build a house (not a shop or a club) or it may require you to build in a theme.

Some island rentals are paid in Linden$, some require US$ via paypal.

6. PLOT SIZE MATTERS

The more land you rent the more stuff you can put on it usually. With each rental you should be told clearly how many prims you have use of. With bare land it will be available in the About Land in the World Menu. Renting a house or a shop in a mall is different - clicking on the rental box will usually tell you the rules.

7. LOCATION! LOCATION! LOCATION!

Look at the land before you rent it. For a house you may want a quiet area away from clubs and things that cause lag. For a shop you may want the opposite.

If you rent on an island and it has very busy events there is a possibility that you may not be able to access it while the sim is crowded.

Location affects rental prices - the more traffic a commercial area has the more rent you will probably have to pay. PG land is generally cheaper than Mature land.

8. YOUR FRIENDS CAN HELP

If your friends rent they may know of places nearby. Ask around.

9. IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM...ASK FOR HELP

The advice in this notecard does not cover everything that can happen in a land deal. If you have a problem ask for help. Ask your friends, Live Help (help menu->Live Help...), on the forums, e-mail [email]support@secondlife.com[/email] or if worst come to worst, search for someone online with the last name "Linden". They are employees of Second Life and are there to help you.

-----------------
contributor:
-StoneSelf Karuna

Specials Thanks to:
Roberta Dalek, Pendari Lorentz