it is ok to attack or praise public figures in this forum....

it is ok to attack or praise public figures in this forum....

So, my question is: Aren't we all "public figures" in the SL world if we choose to post in these forums? The key point is, if we choose to post here. If you have never posted in one of these SL open forums, then you are safe from public humiliation (self-inflicted and otherwise).

If so, I have a whole list of mentally challenged folks I want to mention.
edit: Oh and I have a few fabulous people to mention as well.

Feel free to include me on either of your lists.

Champie

Chanpie you on my praise list!

No I'm not a public figure, SL, SL, waz dat?

I would consult the SL Terms of Service for clarification on that, Champie. A court of law would probably disagree with you that a subscription, paid service which simulates an environment is the same as the "public arena" of real life. Also, I would imagine that there are lots of people who would disagree with you on the definition of "Public Figure" vis a vis the context of SL.

For instance, there are obviously "well known figures" in SL, who do get talked about. People we all know: Aimee Weber Torley, All the Lindens, me (Okay, maybe not.). And then there are the thousands of thousands of relatively unknown, anonymous players who go around just doing their own thing.

My own personal rule of thumb: If you don't have something nice to say about someone on SL, don't say it at all. I would not be surprised if starting up a thread for the sole purpose of grinding an axe against someone or someones that you have a beef with would be against the ToS, and result in angry words from the Lindens.

I am a public figure.

The praise may begin now.

Thanks.

Good point Champie.
I've wondered about this myself.
Like the real world, SL has its celebrities and notorious people, a select few who seem to be just asking for ridicule.
Unlike the real world, SL is smaller and more interconnected. As I mentioned elsewhere, a joke I make about a RL celeb is unlikely to get back to them, while anything mean I (or anyone) says about a SL resident probably will get back to them.
In some ways, SL is not just a virtual world but a virtual amusement park (or country club). You pay to get in, you're free to do many things, but if you attack another patron, the security guards toss you out.

Knee-High Praise: You have a wonderful knack for understated accessorizing, dahling.

True up to a point. However, when the subscribed, paid service publicly advertises itself as a "virtual world" and an "open community", and takes many demonstrable steps to insure that condition, then courts of law may grant wide latitutude on such issues. It is, after all, deliberately "Second Life," right?

Publish your list, Champie, and let's see what happens. Establish the precedent. Only way to find out, right?

Well...there are flaws in your argument, at least in my opinion. It seems to me that if we were to take your logic and apply it back to the real world, then EVERYONE in the world is a "public figure" just because they happen to live on planet Earth. EVERYONE who ever posts to an Internet chat board is a public figure, because they happen to post onto a chat board.

Again, I would love the "legal definition" of what constitutes a Public Figure.

You make an excellent point: Only way to determine what will happen is if someone tries it. Challange the system and see how it addresses it.

On the flip side, I personally would advise against using the board as a way to post complaints about people you personally don't like or agree with. Blowback is a bitch, and the last thing I want is to see the SL forums devolve into a firestorm, prompting a major Linden lockdown, all because someone "jus' haaaaaaaaaaaaad to test something."

I personally think people who start threads, merely for the purpose of complaining about someone they don't like immediately deserve a thread to be opened up about what a complete moron they are.

Courts of law don't enter into it, nor do notions of "public figures". LL can terminate your account any time they see fit, regardless of whether you're in technical violation of the Terms of Service or not. Verbally attacking another player can get you expelled.

Not that it necessarily will, of course, but as the man says, "ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances".

I like zat *files it away with a Post-it note on the front*

Well said Olympia. I think we sometimes get too comfortable around here. The Lindens try really hard to keep us all on board as customers, and that means catering to many of our desires. But at the end of the day the product and servers are still their property, and we all clicked "I Agree" to the little part that says:

"Linden Labs can toss you out on your ear AND the horse you rode in on for any reason."

I'm pretty sure that's how it's worded.

Exactly.




We're not talking about verbal attacks (even though Champie used the word "attacks". The issue is "commentary on how public figures in SL behave, or what they stand for."



And you're right about LL's powers, which is one of the reasons why a "virtual world" or "virtual community" is such a fascinating concept: it does not always cohere with reality....

There's nothing wrong with pushing buttons to see what happens, so long as you have a contingency plan. Champie, you are the safety advocate of the boards at the moment so you should be able to come up with a way to do it and still play it safe.

There are probably several ways to go about it. If you just want to see what comes of it, maybe gather a list of other users and have them give you written notecards that authorize you to post libel about them for purposes of the experiment. Except that you won't note that it is libel on the boards, it will only be known to you and your conspirators. Then, if LL threatens your account, all you have to do is reveal that it was a social experiment to "see if the system could handle it." Then get Hamlet to write an article about it and enjoy your 15 minutes.

My point to asking the question is that I dont need Linden Labs to defend me from people discussing Champie Jack in the forums. I am Champie Jack in SL and everything I do or say is Champie's responsibility. I can agree to a TOS but that doesnt mean I need Linden Labs to be my bodyguard.

If Linden Labs wants to protect others on the forums, as well as keep the forums clean of abuse of other players, thats great. However, I dont require such atttention from the Lindens.

Therefore, I grant persmission to the community of SL to feel free to comment on Champie Jack's words, behavior, character and beleifs. All insults threats and accusations against Champie Jack are welcome from any member. I have no concern for the length or strength of your posts. You are free to comment in any manner you choose whether factual or fictional.

I am Champie Jack here. I am in a SL world open Forum speaking freely and invite everyone to direct any comment at me without fear of Linden intervention.

If Linden Labs choose to intervene, I cnnot control that, but I request that they only intervene in order to protext their interest in SL and the orums. I request that Linden Lab not intervene on my behalf.

I will only respond directly to the people who comment and will not make ad-hominem attacks. My only responses will be directed toward the comments that relate to Champie Jack, and those responses will NOT refer to another AV in SL except Champie Jack

in other words, get out your frustrations on me, I can handle it..

at least this way you get to name a name

oh, but please no "hugz"

I hate your smug, Darrin Stevens wannabe, smug, milk-drinking, smug avatar because it is poopie.

Edit:

smug

you know, I do too

There's a thin line between constructive criticism and bashing.

It's safer sometimes to generalize; rather than saying "Chensu Deng is personally responsible for driving real estate prices out of the reach of average players", say "Real estate speculators are driving prices up". It's also more likely to get discussion on the core issues, rather than pushing it into a drama queen catfight of dueling personalities that is of no interest to anybody save the participants.

Apo Silverman is a mean person - and I know he dresses funny!

Sure. I was interested in seeing where that line was. And how it might be relevant to discussing whatever passes for "public figures" in SL. I didn't realize that this thread was about Champie Jack trying to commit verbal and reputational suicide.

But I disagree a little: If I believe that "Anshe Chung is personally responsible for driving real estate prices out of the reach of average players," then I think it is more constructive and more ethical to identify that person directly, rather than distribute the responsibility among a class of people, some of whom may not be responsible.

Of course, I have no idea whether Anshe Chung is or is not responsible, or Chensu Deng, for that matter....