"We Are the World"?

I am afraid that this question might be one that is reductio ad absurdum but here goes:


Assumptions:

1. The Second Life community exhibits a certain homogeneity of socio-economic class and/or intellectual class

2. The Second Life community has access to and facility with computer technology

3. Second Life, whether used as an escapist endeavor or an income-generating tool (or both), is a mirror that reflects a wider reality.


Premise:

There are, as I see it, three major classes of issues currently being debated (often hotly) in the forums and in-world:

1. Gender Identity: What is it to be female? What is it to be male? What exists in-between? How is human sexuality expressed? Are there limits to what is deemed 'acceptable'?

2. Economic Issues/Economic Disparity: Who 'owns' what? What is the difference between content providers and content consumers? How is innovation rewarded? Which economic model is the most productive in an emerging MMOLS (Massive Multi-user On-Line Society)?

3. Environmental Issues: How should land be used? Should 'natural spaces' exist? What is the importance of aesthetics with regards to land use?

I have attempted to present just some of the pivital questions within each category. It is apparent to me that each of these questions has a First Life (or Real Life) corollary.


The Question Do any of these SL controversies provide any solutions that translate to RL (FL)?

Feel free to take issue with any part of this statement. If my assumptions are incorrect, please correct them. If the entire thread is to broad to discuss, please help me narrow it. If you see additional relevant issues, what are they?

As I had freared, this topic might be meaningless--first thread jitters, I suppose.

Here is a question: Has your SL experience in anyway influenced your take on issues like this one? Are you more willing to take action, pro or con?

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I'll go with you, but must note that for Assumption #1, I'm not sure how homogeneous SL society truly is. Given the myriad of people who are now able to access the Internet due to easier/cheaper access, as well as a degree of Nationalism that shapes individual viewpoint, there are more divergent "class" systems than we realize. I will agree that your "certain homogeneity of socio-economic class..." is, however, appropriate as compared with the larger scope of RL class differentiation.

As for The Question, I don't see any solutions translating to RL just yet. As the SL community expands it becomes evident how RL disputes regarding your various Premise Points become so nasty. In searching for the Holy Grail of Personal Freedom, people often lose touch with how much of how we behave, what we create, and in general, how we express ourselves can impact the people around us. The amount of open dialogue and widespread interaction can certainly provide an interesting "test case" for RL problem resolution.

Personally, my experience is the reverse of your follow-up post. My RL has influenced my take on these issues within the SL community. I suspect this is the case with others. The strong debates surrounding the issues you mentioned truly shows how hard it is for some of The Community to encourage those coming at it from a different angle.

Having said a bunch and answered nothing, I yield the floor so I can go get three aspirin and a Cappy and Coke while I settle down.

It's the "We Are The World" thread title that's driving people off. Man I hate that song.

Personally, I haven't found SL to be a force in my RL, other than to devour great chunks of time and keep me up long past my bedtime. Also, I sometimes dream of building with prims. And when I wake up, my pillow is gone.

I have been interested in the recent discussion/outrage over copyright and trademark issues, a subject I've been following for a while particularly as relating to digital music distribution. But for the most part, SL is an escape for me rather than a galvanizing force.

I will say however, in regard to the Texas anti same-sex amendment, I'm rather proud to live in a state where same-sex marriage is legal. For all of the apocalyptic talk about how same-sex unions will be the destruction of marriage as an institution, life goes on here quite normally. It's almost as if same-sex marriage is no big deal. Imagine that.

You forgot :

4. Forum Drama : Insignificant petty bitching.

Now if you included some of THAT, you'd be getting more replies

In earlier days I pondered these questions as well and came to the conclusion that in some regards this was Philip's "ant farm" and even compared its nature to that of the fledgling US "grand experiment".

Just as the internet (n.b. it is increasingly losing its Capitalization) has changed the nature of all kinds of interactions so too does SL have the potential to be a crucible for exploring new forms of human organization. Alas, there are a few major things that interfere with the utility of the crucible: lack of contracts, justice, population, and high bugginess to name a few.

However, as Jared Diamond and Kurt Vonnegut would both tell you, in the end we are the "third chimpanzee" and the crucible has shown us little more about new ways of human organization than observing a high-school would. The second panel in the link above echoes this sentiment. There are really bad ways to organize humans, there are ways that don't suck as much, but Utopia is not on the horizion because we cannot stop being humans.

I could go on for hours about this topic. But that's my pathology

First, I offer my deepest condolences for the title choice. It is obvious that I am not in marketing or advertising. Singing a round of "I Will Survive" might rid you of the thread title.

Mal, you have put what lies at the heart of my question beautifully:



Gabe, I will keep your words tucked in the back of my head. Perhaps when I have more experience in Second Life, I will better be able to ask a question of more substance.

Lindens, Please delete this thread. "We are the World" is copyrighted by Bob Geldof and Midge Ure (Love ya Midge!).

You forgot the Great Issue of "Who's the Biggest Poopiehead Today".

I vote for Cath ... (oops can't name names anymore)

Damn! Stop making jokes about people who only allow jokes in the other direction!

Haven't you learned by now?

Sincerly, Nolan "The Homophobe" Nash

Ultravox Rocks my world...

....and Boomtown Rats weren't half bad either

You're thinking of "Do They Know it's Christmas?/Feed the World."

Yes, it is, in fact, copyrighted. I have enclosed the title in quotation marks allowing that the words are 1. a title 2. not my own. Becuase I have not quoted the lyrics in their entirety and because I have not attempted to pass the above-quoted words off as my own, I believe I have satisfied my obligation to Midge Ure and Bob Geldof.

So saith MLA.

I think that while some very intelligent, insightful folks have tackled some of these issues in the past, it seems that because so many people view SL as so many different things, that even great suggestions become muddled by a lot of proselytizing, which in turn leads to less than useful debates.

Possibly, the anonimity factor all but destroys any hope that SL could set good examples that might make good sense in RL.

I have to agree with the Beau's recent sentiments that there is a number of folks (including myself at times), who play armchair experts on a myriad of issues. I think this fact hinders SL issues from becoming any sort of RL solutions. It's one thing to have an opinion, however, on a nearly daily basis, there are threads reaching ten or twelve pages in length, which are mainly comprised of a few people who can't let go after offering an opinion, or who will not brook any dissent to said opinion. Then the thread drags on with people insulting each others's intelligence. Generally counter-productive, because many times people just keep repeating themselves in hopes of convincing others through mantra and insults rather than actually looking for some hint of truth in other's posts, then adjusting their view, and posting a compromise or an adjusted view point. The "it's my way or the highway" type thing.

I know this sounds like a rather dismal view of things... but... I think the proof is right here for all of us to see. There are days where I can understand why LL has considered just shutting down certain portions of the forums. This is not to say I would like to see this happen, I wouldn't.

Disclaimer: I have not actually been told by a Linden or read where a Linden has suggested this. This is simply what I have been told by some SLers who claim to have heard this from LL staff.

I know that. I was being intentionally silly and petty... can you guess why?

"We Are the World" is a 1985 song written by Michael Jackson and Lionel Richie, so I stand corrected. Easy to confuse the two. Thanks Pol!

I still stand by my sentiments about Midge - he rocks!

I think it might be a bit utopian to think that SL as a society will come up with new approaches that will transfer to RL and make much of a difference. I do think it makes a difference but in a broader and more long range way. Kids that are growing up today, connected to the net and being exposed to people of much greater diversity than they'd likely encounter in their home town will hopefully grow old with a deeper appreciation for diversity and less fear of it. Over the coming decades that may lead to greater acceptance of cultures and people who seem far out of the mainstream by today's standards.

We shall overcome!

But seriosuly, folks, the multitude of viewpoints doesn't have to be a hindrance. I suggest we all take a day and actually walk in someone else's shoes (Disclaimer: I am in no way advocating the assumption of another AVs identity without full and prior written approval from said AV!). Entirely possible in the SL environment. Go troop about as a Vamp, Lady or Gent, Tiny, Goth, Dancer, RPer, etc. Good learn something. Maybe have some fun.

My opinions about issues haven't been affected by what I've experienced in SL so far. But I think that's because issues like gay rights, and reproductive rights, and basic human rights go beyond any borders; and the way in which I consider such issues is unchanged by my environment – whether that environment's virtual or meatspace.

SL *has* personally affected me, though, by more objectively showing me (with its reduced sensorium, with its often over-the-shoulder third-person perspective on my avatar) how I behave in a community in general, and especially how I behave in the more concentrated community of Second Life. This has already, after a couple of months of sporadic inworld time, led to my increased gregariousness in RL ... and to my resolve to be as friendly and patient as so many oldtimers here have been to this still-learning-the-ropes newbie.

SL seems to amplify the more positive parts of my personality, basically; and I'm set on translating that amplification back into RL.

There's a lot more to be said about this,of course; but, for me, it'd be verging on the solipsistic; or the way-too-goddam-self-involved; or at least the slightly-too-personal-for-open-forum-discussion ...

This is a good idea!

I apologize if I semed a bit cynical in my post above. I do think we need more cohesiveness though before we can truly apply SL problems and their solutions to their RL counterparts.

I have recently been wearing a Tiny av, and to be honest, I was a bit put off by the notion at first. I find it to be a lot of fun, and a great ice breaker when meeting new people. I was even approached by someone the other nite because of it, and a great conversation ensued (about the nature of virtual worlds) as a result!

The same thing happened when people 1st started to make child avies, I was a little creeped out at first, but felt totally different after making "'lil Nolan". There was someting liberating about running around giggling, laughing and generally reverting to temporary rugrat status. Then there's Nolette. Some of my friends love Nolette, and some are horrified! LOL!

How does the saying go? "Do not judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes?"

I do not think that personal impact should be neglected. I, too, have been impacted positively by my experiences in SL.

As each person posts, I wish to refine my original question. In the forums, there is much talk about what goes 'into' SL. RL issues/concerns that find legs within SL and need to be discussed. Legal and ethical dilemmas that require solutions are hashed out again and again. Real learning, as Gabe and Nolan have pointed out, happens regularly but happens only when we can shift our identities as quickly as dragging a folder. It is almost as if SL is a tremendous vacuum slowly being filled with artifacts and language--both offspring of creativity.

My original question, in part, has to do with what comes out of SL. If, in fact, SL is a reflection of FL (RL), what is SL's impact on a wider reality? After all (I am going to be terribly pompous and self-important here), if you accept my first assumption, the SL community is one of the best-equipped to make real change.

Ok - they suck

You're mean! Knock it off, I'm dancing on the ceiling, and my nose fell off!

Have a little pity on me!

Start with the man in the mirror!

It's a shame this thread didn't take off.

I'm not 100% sure of the timing, but I had that week of mine while dealing with alts, male/female inconsistancies, personality flaws, and all that other stuff that is seeping from RL where it is prominent, to SL, where it is virtual, and our right to know, and the common courtesy of, knowing certain truths about one's resident's "person" are, by all rights, non-existant untill they are brought up and expressed when one wishes to divulge.

:deep breath:

I wish I had seen this thread then.

A little reminder of the way I dealt with it:

http://forums.secondlife.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26425&stc=1

Say no to pedofiles.

Sigh... I'm probably the last person to make that joke.