Once again with feeling.

What with the new job and all, I admit I have very little time for SLing any longer. Something that really bothered me in the past, but less so each and every visit I make.

I logged in recently and saw the new housing area going up by the ampitheater. Very nice. Funny I should have been shocked - yet somehow, I'm not.

It's huge, it's gigantic.... and it goes against the new limitors they placed on the software ( speaking of the 45 degree slant limit for land). Now how could that happen? Simple - Linden help.

Why does this bother me? because favortism in any form bothers me. and more and more I've seen *alot* of favortism on the Linden's part. Hey great, I'm glad ya like what some people are working on BUT WE ARE YOUR FRIGGIN CUSTOMERS!!!!!

Here's something unique... try being professional!

If you going to put limits dont turn around and break them for "yer buds" ( the housing project being one, the canyons in westlands being another - just quick off the top of my head).
The rest of us cant even get land ABOVE SEA LEVEL, and your giving these guys perfectly sculpted areas.

THAT is unprofessional.

We are your clients, your customers, your PAYCHECKS.

Yes there have been a few who have contributed above and beyond the call of duty (and believe me I tip my hat to them), but EVERYONE - The builders, The texturer's, The RPGers, The WW2ers, EVERYONE will be paying for the privlidge of being on SL.

So their money is good enough for you, but if they dont follow your vision, there's doesnt count.....
nice attitude.

Now I freely admit, I've had a problem with the land controls since they were put in. but I cant be on enough to properly lobby for them to be changed back (heck I'm not even on enough to check email anymore). So yes, this is a particularly sore subject for me. Made moreso by the fact that I see people putting up the most god awful crap (flashing, rotating, song playing eyesores) and you tell me that having land at less than a ideal natural pitch is disruptive..........

and here I thought everyone had to pull their heads out from between their legs to at least *breathe* on occassion... hmm learn something new every day.

I loved SL. I spent every moment I could on it. I think it's a darn shame that I am reduced to using past tense when it comes to SL.

So much potential - so many ways of screwing it up. It may not be broken yet - but I'm gaining confidence in your abilities to finish the job!

A comment/joke was made in another forum about the CEO leaving and hope he doesnt try to make an SL clone (lol I did laugh).

Way things are going, I just pray he *does*.

Hi Jaxiam,

The method we used for the two sims you are referring to is a little different.

Kissling, the one with the tall cliffs and canyons, was created as an attempt to explore the more dramatic aspects of landscape. We created the cliffs and canyons to see what would become of them.


Oak Grove was built as a themed community that was chosen after many submissions of themed commuity ideas. The western theme created there was requested by a number of residents, and keeping with the spirit of the old west, our artists created the land with canyons and tall roocks.

We have editing tools that allow us to create the landscapes with a particular design in mind, and we are learning the effects of landscapes as we introduce new areas. We have found the people like islands, and valleys. Flat lands are good as a was of expressing the size of the world, but most people do not want to live there. We will likely continue to make the landscapes on the new sims similar to what our residents are requesting.

I think what is more remarkable about Second Life is the amazing structures seems to get along with the ugly ones, and over time, we have seen a consistent "adjustment" to a particular area that everyone seems to accept. Lusk court is a great example of this, where everyone has agreed to keep their homes a certain size. I think we will see more of this as time goes on.

Hope this answers a few questions,

-Peter

Jaxiam, Kissling isn't a Linded-funded community.

Actually I never thought it was Linden funded, just Linden facilitated.


Peter, thank you - if it seems I'm a bit bitter - lol well I am. I understand about oak grove - and to be honest it was unfair of me to lump it in because it *is* a themed area that was voted in. I've flown through a few times and the terrain is as much a part of it as the buildings. a nice universal whole. While there are many themed areas - so far that one gets my vote as best (I like all the others, but dont feel the same unity of vision in most of the others - well save the yamamoto area).

Here's the thing - Awhile back I built a volcano, with tiers that was worked into a greek temple theme - even hosted a open house - which many were kind enough to attend - and which was an excellent success. I got a lot of compliments on the place - granted my first volcano was an eyesore, but I chose my location with a purpose when I created the second. The island didnt last - because at the time funding made it impossible - I was sinking into the negatives constantly. So it had to go - on a temporary basis.

But y'all made it permanent. why? because it's impossible to build like that anymore. I have a small piece of land now that I dont *dare* touch, because to tweak it even a little would be irrepairable. and you think you did us a favor????

You say that the cool thing about SL is that all the elements come together with time and patience.

Maybe so, and if that is the case, wouldnt the land problems also work themselves out? If we follow your logic, then the neighbors would realize that they need some continuity to their lands shapes, and work with each other to make it happen over time. However if they *dont* work together - then whats the difference between a giant unwanted mountain and a giant unwanted flashing/pulsing/screeching phallic tower? The difference is - one takes time and money to buy the land and mold it, and get it right. the other can be made once and pulled in and out of inventory.....

In other words, the land takes more effort over time. I've seen some ugly land raises (and even contributed to a couple), but I have *never* seen land look as ugly as some of the things placed *on* the land.

you limited the wrong tools.

As for neighborhood communities. I think that is all well and cool when it works. The trouble is, the only way it seems to get them is if someone with enough wealth buys up *every* lil bit of land that they can - buying more everytime some is made even momentairly available - and releasing that land to likeminded fellows so they can build their community... Hey I'm not knocking it. It works - and at this point is about the only thing that *does* work for purposes of creating a streamlined community.

But is SL really about communities that are only open if your in the right clique?

If that is the case, assign me my locker combination and pass the chem notes - cause I'm back in High School again!

All in all - what makes SL such a wonder to explore that you never know when you turn the corner wether you're going to find yourself in a Egyptian Pyramid, A nice summer cottage, a adult orientated resort, a shooting range, a ball game court, a small thriving city, a launch pad for NASA, The dark tower of Mordor, A greek temple set on a smoking volcano, A large cliffside castle overlooking the sea, or a nice four bedroom track house.

Before you limited the tools any and every one of those things could be found. If you looked hard enough (I only mentioned things that I personally have stumbled across in my travels).

Maybe the land tools limitations dont seem like much to most of you - but you *never* will get to see those cliffside castles, greek volcanos, dark towers surrounded by jagged peaks, ever again. And all the new comers will *never* get to see them at all.

What a legacy - be proud, it's the triumph of lil minds over creativity.

I just want to say, that Kissling Island Community is open to EVERYONE, not just people of a clique.

As for the Nexus Prime community, I kind of agree with what you are saying. I do feel like that area is based on a Clique, which is why I dont go a lot.

edit-ugh some of this post is garabage, but this is my 6th attempt at writing it, so funk it, here it is cause i don't want to think about it anymore!

the land controls did not eliminate the possibility for the structures that you talk about... they just make it so that not every noob who comes into SL can do it right away. it now requires knowledge of texturing and use of primitives to accomplish. Take a look at Valfaroth's volcano(i will post coordinates tonight) the actual mountain/lava/everything is made out of primitives... and like all of vals work, it is done really well. And i for one appreciate it more than i do the mountains that are created just by raising the land, because i know the time and effort that goes into making a project that size.

did i mention i hate plateaus? in fact i started a thread along those lines complaining that the land controls were not working the way that they were supposed to a long time ago because all of the carefully sculpted land was being violated by people raising a flat top mound to just above sea level, comletely unresponsive to their local context... well that is unless you consider them echoing off of each other as a response.

Now i am not saying that there shouldn't be some exceptions, because there should, but they cannot be on an individual basis. It needs to be done with the consent of a whole sim, or at least all of the neighbors. The original land tools would have allowed this because they let you raise your land by some percentage as compared to the surrounding land. So a whole group of people could get together, and purchase a large plot of land, and if everyone raised their land, then the person in the center could create a bit of a peak. In theory, the hard cap on the angle could still be used to accomplish the same thing, but it wouldn't be the mountains and cliffs that you were talking about, no... it would be more like a foot hill. But then you create your mountain with primitives.

opinion on cliques follow: it isn't so much that we grow out of cliques, but we recognize them for what they are and move on not paying any attention to them. There are clubs and groups in real life that are elitest, and if anything I laugh at them because of their percieved arrogance. In no way do i feel wronged by their self image, if anythin i pity it. You choose your friends, if a group doesn't want you, it is their loss, not yours.

...james um, he didn't mention nexus prime, you did. in fact, from readin his post, it looked like he was refering to communites where one person buys all the land, and then distributes it...

your missing the point of the game. take your ritalin and listen. your talking about how much power you have, like most in games do. this games about power but then again its not. watch the weekly rise in wealth, and others. what do you see? you see the most creative get ahead. if you failed its because people didnt appreaciate your work. if you made popular items this wouldnt even be an issue.

Jaxiam, we all got together and decided to exclude you from all the cliques. The government, not Sl is behind it and yes you are being watched. Those dreams you have had are aliens abducting you while you are asleep. The guy working in the cubicle next to you does own, and was the wielder of the smoking gun that killed Kennedy.
Linden Labs is owned and operated by a transdimensional power bent on taking over the universe and altering the land in a biased way is their first move towards universal domination.

in jax's defense:

i don't think he missed the point of the game, infact the majority of the post is concerned with the land controls. the clique bit was just thrown in, and then further fueled by james ... am i wrong jax?

if it wasn't consider this a highjacking of the thread

what does everyone think about the constraints on the land tools?

Now that is an interesting point. Too bad these aspects really haven't gotten a chance to be explored in Kissling. The land was bought up in a mad frenzy buy a few and the development of "the more dramatic...landscape" seems to have been over looked, to a degree.

Maybe another dramatic landscaped sim is needed for this. I can really imagine some great development, some great imaginative builds. Maybe some land buying limits are needed. What I would like to see is a limit as to how much or little land can be purchased.

The multiple one square purchases are really unfair, as is the purchase of an entire sim by one or two. (imho)

Maybe not everywhere, just in some places, to give everyone fair buying opportunities.


fen-

If you fly around the world, It looks like a pile of crap with a few nice structures thrown in. Kissling, which I had nothing to do with, looks very nice as a controlled build. The themes, a small portion of Lusk, Kissling, and yes even Jesse ( last time I was there ) looks like everyone collaborated and built something to be proud of.

The rest of the sims do not have this feel to them. I think Kissling group did a service to the community.

Xavier

Mr. VonLenard,

You are a brave man.....

But you do have a good point. I think what the major point of what I was trying to convey that the dramatic landscaping of Kissling seems to have been lost.

Maybe another THEMED community to use the dramatic landscaping setting. With like um a theme, rules, a team with a goal?

Still those lots of one piece purchase in an area bug me....


fen-

Ouch.

Even without naming names and pointing fingers, comments like that can really wound those of us whose building skills are still on the low end of the pool.

One man's crap is another man's mansion.

This keeps coming up. I didnt want it to get lost here so I created a thread for it. Please add you thoughts about this here

It seems like there are a few separate issues being conflated here. One is, of course, the constraints on the land tools, and we can discuss that on the new thread Misnomer started.

A related issue is whether the Lindens should have the same constraints as they rest of us when they make land. I'd argue that they shouldn't -- they're the SL equivalent of Mother Nature, which can create landscape that humans can't duplicate -- but we can pursue this on the other thread.

Perhaps the biggest issue is favoritism. Did the Lindens create the landscape of the Kissling sim at the request of certain users? That seems to be what Jaxiam is suggesting, and this is the first I've heard of it. My understanding was that the Lindens just made a new sim with unusual topography, some users then bought up most of the land, and one event had nothing to do with the other. If anyone can state definitively that the Kissling landscape was in response to a user request, please do so.

(Then there are the questions of whether the topography in Kissling was a good design choice, and whether the builders in Kissling are making creative use of it. That might be a separate thread.)

I made the Kissling terrain file as a test for our new internal land creation art pipeline, which I was working on. The terrain was somewhat extreme because the new pipeline allowed a larger dynamic range than our previous process.

It was NOT created in response to anyone's request. It was NOT created for a specific SL user or group.

Hope this helps clarify events.
Cory

Now I am wondering...If you play EQ or Diablo or any other online game where there are "BOSS" players. Who seem to have to best equipment and highest levels.... Do you write the companies and ask them to put limits on them because they play the game too well??

What would they say? They would laugh as they share your email around their office. They would react to it basically saying this person either cheated or has played the game in the correct manner to get to the level of experience to be able to "take over".

You would be advised, if even responded to, To play the game and learn it well enough to be of good competition for the "BOSS" users.

Would they limit that user?

NO!

Why penalize any user for learning the game? That totally defeats the purpose of playing the game and getting good at it and then eventually ultimatly enjoying the game........

If I never learned SL would I want a high score player to be limited?

Heck no. I always strive to be the best at what I do. Having someone there that knows more and is better then me, drives me to learn and be better at it myself.

Nada Epoch is definatly a "BOSS" scriptor. He is by far better than me at scripting. Most of time I am envious of his creations. Ever see his never ending stair case?

Do I scream and cry that he needs to be limited because I am not as good as him? NO!

He makes me want to learn, to get better at what I do. I don't complain that he is better. I ask him for help, and he helps me and many others when help is needed.

I have taken his help and things I have learned and taught others, I teach classes sometimes. So I put my experience back into the community willingly. Not that I am "Obligated" to, I do it to be friendly and want to see people learn to make SL grow.

Point is don't cry...Learn, play, ask for help, teach as you learn. Undoubtedly you know more than some of the new users, do they complain and want you limited? I haven't seen it yet.

I have givin away around $25k in the time I have been in SL since Dec 2nd. So don't dare claim that I am trying to hoard anything. I know you havn't come out and said this, but I want to put it out there. I have made friends (not Cliques). No the Lindens didn't create Kissling just for me. I was just fortunate to learn the game and play it well enough to be at the point to grab a cool area I liked, with a goal in mind.

To explain that goal more fully:

Kissling was brand new...no Trash....No lag.....I thought one of the main reasons Lindenburg failed was due to lag. Being on an already populated sim with no buffer zones. No land limits set...etc.. I could go on... This is said with no offence to Wednesday Grimm. He did a great job with what was available at the time.

I figured that with the large buffer zones the object/av population would be less burden on the sim bandwidth, couple that with a Private, let me say that again "PRIVATE" ran Theme, with an established government within the residents. Could have a chance to make a smooth lagless community.

Now as far as Kissling being a clique for reserved people...That is funny...I have rented out city plots to people I don't even know. I had no idea what their motives were, what their building abilities were. So to say its clique oriented is just crazy, you speak with no knowledge..investigate b4 commenting. You of course have the right to an opinion, but ask/find out the true info b4 commenting.

But if you remember or surf in previous threads from the Lindens. They have said that they will adjust certain things for ANY area where a group holds a common goal/opinion. Like changing the rating of a sim PG or Mature. So if it seems like favortism you are way off. Create your own area, join a theme, lobby the residents of that area for a sim change that requires Linden intervention to change something like a sim rating. You will find that they favor popular opinion of any ANY certain area.


Now Fen, as far as you see it that Kissling's landscape isn't explored fully to its potential.....
I'm sorry I am not having the same vision as you regarding that area. But as I worked to get to this point in SL to have the ability to organise a community, I feel it is my/our (Kissling Community) choice as to what we do with it. You never once asked to join. In fact I think I asked you. Don't remember if I did But I know you never asked, and thats your choice. Jaxiam, same goes....You never asked me to rent a spot. So how can you say its a clique? How can you say Linden favortism? You never asked about any of this.

geesh Charlie,

I guess you needed someone to pick on and it turned out to be me. Your quotes of mine are predominantly placed in your post and you then go on to address issues I never even touched on.

..[Now Fen, as far as you see it that Kissling's landscape isn't explored fully to its potential..... ]

I never said anything negative about your BIG BOSS community. I was commenting on the terrain and then suggested another be created so that the intricacies of it could be explored.

...[I'm sorry I am not having the same vision as you regarding that area] ...
Actually I had no vision for Kissling.

..[I feel it is my/our (Kissling Community) choice as to what we do with it.]...
This sounds cliquish to me.

..[You never once asked to join. In fact I think I asked you. Don't remember if I did But I know you never asked, and that’s your choice]...
No, you never asked. I did have discussions with someone else though. I chose not to join. Does that mean I don't have a right to express my opinions about the terrain?



fen-

You guys need to kiss and make up. Better yet, Lynnix and fenix should kiss and make up while Charlie and I sell tickets. Maybe we can add mud ...

Lol Xav, Sry fen I was just under he impression from your posts here and a post on another thread that you had something really against me buying that sim. I was just expressing how I felt about that impression. I have also heard rumors of other people, tho not many and not in the forums (I would have quoted them too ) of a few having issues of me with that sim. But so far none have brought it directly to me.

I wasn't intending to turn all evil on ya was just disturbed from the feelin I got off of these and the other post a while back that ya made, and never would I say you can't have an opinion. Heck as you can see I'm slightly opinionated lol Why should no one else be? Thats how things grow.

I think if we all had the same likes and opinions this place wouldn't be fun or what it is today .

I post to everything I feel storng about good, bad, agree, disagree. Wasn't trying to pick on ya.

Some of what I said wasn't ment to be directed solely at you sry. Just posted it as I thought this thread was starting to fit how I felt about the rumors and posts regarding limiting someone just cuz they play right.

Not for Fen
And this clique thing and people complaining about itis getting annoying. Ever try to wear a $30 outfit and walk into a golf resort where you can't even look at a plate for less then $200 lol now they aren't in middle school or high school lol. But its a clique. They are everywhere at every age. Some people need to realize not all people make friends with everyone.

I try to make friends as much as I can.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, keep dreaming, hahahahahahahahah


!

Lynn

ok



fen-

Why does everyone insist on comparing SL to other games whose sold purpose is to hunt and kill?? Most (I DID say most) people who enjoy this type of game are going to find a lot to complain about in SL. I could have put this post in just about any other thread here, but I have one more thing to say on topic.....

I like what Charlie and everyone has done on Kissling, it looks nice and "seems" to have a purpose. HOWEVER, the purpose of Kissling was to explore "dramatic landscaping" which Kissling does not do. The city being built could just as easily have been bult on any sim. I think the landscape of Kissling is suffering because of the way it is being used.



I think the fortunate part was you got there before anyone else, or Kissling would be something completly different.


-TK

I think one point here is the differentiation between the TERRAIN of the sim Kissling and the COMMUNITY Kissling.

I think some are mixing this up. There is a difference.
My comments were directed at the TERRAIN.

So when do Lynnix and I get to jump in the mud?
Sounds like a sim crasher to me.

And oh, Tracey's comment about SL comparisons really could be a thread by it's self, I don't understand it either.

fen-