Why doesn't Terra Nova talk about SL more?

This probably will get few replies since it's a somewhat obscure question, but seriously.

Why do the grey beards of Terra Nova talk more about EQ or WoW or whatever and not about SL?

Those games are mentally challenging for 12 year olds, maybe, but for someone over the age of 30?

Is it a simple of matter they don't want to get caught between There and SecondLife politics? Or is there some other reason?

It confuses the heck out of me, that's for sure.

Yes, I recently wrote to Ted Casanova and asked him to come and read the thread called "The Anti-Business Climate in SL".

No answer yet. I have posted on his forums and been in discussions there before, but it was about TSO.

I think it's a strange lacunae in his work, given that he is supposed to be all about game economies, and we're supposedly "doing better than China" and hook up to real-life dollars, and yet he isn't here watching, or at least not visibly or vocally.

Hmmm.
So,
what is the "The Anti-Business Climate in SL"? I'm curious.


>Why do the grey beards of Terra Nova talk more about EQ or WoW or whatever and not about SL?

I think its a fair point. From my *personal* POV, I guess I have two reasons why *I* do not: 1.) I figure Cory is in a better position to do so; and 2.) while I have an account and do try to pop-in as of late, I have some sort of graphics issue which hangs my SL client... so I don't have much experience to boast of.

I'm hangin' in there, and perhaps once the kinks are worked out and I see something I wanna write about... "roger, roger, will do so" (and looking forward to it).

-nathan combs (Terra Nova and elsewhere).

Ah, well, feel free to post your parcticulars as I know there are dozens of residents who would be more than glad to help you guys get in world. I'll try to do what I can but my knowledge is limited to:

1. Make sure you're upgraded to Service pack 2 for winxp
2. Make sure your drivers are up to date
3. Try replacing your power supply if it is giving you grief
4. If it worked before, try uninstalling and reinstalling.

Yeah, it's often Cory who posts stories about SL to TN, and Cory seems to be awfully busy of late. I'm looking forward to the town hall with Cory that Robin promised for sometime this week.

Well, I'm not so sure Cory thinks he's the appropiate person to be posting too much to Terra Nova, if you know what I mean.

I think people might start coming down on him a bit for using TN as a company organ, so I suspect he errs too far on the side of caution.

It's a forum thread likely to make the logic center of your brain crawl down your neck and impale itself on a rib. Proceed with caution.

Well, it's nothing Terra Nova would be interested in.

The details are relevant and accurate, but its conclusion is wrong because it's really more an issue of lack of foresight on the part of LL then any desire to be 'anti-business'.

LL has proven in the past to be the most pro-business MMO in, well, the history of MMOs.

Barsoom, just read the essay here:


The Anti-Business Climate in SL

Form your own judgement, don't just listen to the forum harpies.

The premise has to do with LL's actual tinkering with the economy to slow the pace of player-based entertainment events and control listings of events; a reneging on past performance involving putting in telehubs on new sims and a cave to minority player sentiment about wilderness; a reversal on a means of facilitating the advertising for a serious competitior to LL on the grid, which is Anshe Chung's zoned private islands; various other experiences and issues that do in fact relay the fact of the anti-commerce climate.

The chief issue is the group land tools -- currently they do not sufficiently protect land ownership rights and investor rights and privileges, because they enable any officer in the group, even if he has not paid for land or paid tier (maintenance fees) to seize and sell the land. They also enable any rogue member to seize the controls for "officer recall" and kick out an investor from his own land. These are tools designed in a different age of the game when the hippie commune or utopian experiment was more the norm for groups (distributing of land access and income equally, etc.)

These are serious issues, and I'm sure Ted should study them to get up to snuff about some very important issues that will emerge as mor-pegs get closer to RL and take over more of the Internet

Unfortunately what happen there was a gathering of details were woven together to reach the wrong conclusion. They avoided accounting for all the pro-business things that LL has done and supported in the past. (Full IP rights to the users, anyone?)

However, if you want to get up to speed very quickly on the various ins and outs of what's going on with SecondLife economic activities that's a great place to start.

blaze, this is just your opinion, and it seems uninformed by events of the last few days. And of COURSE TN would be interested in any and all facets of the land and economy discussion in SL, of which this has been a key one.

Here Anshe Chung has spent $13,000 on private islands. And now she can't advertise them for sale on the land list because of a lot of Nervous Nellies at the Gates. This isn't lack of foresight, this is caving to a minority but vocal anti-landowner sentiment, including among some of the top businessmen in other sectors (Cristiano Midnight is associated with this most vocal platform).

There are many other features of the climate tolerated from players, or actions tolerated by LL that spell "anti-business".

Let's simply start with the words of a Linden to someone being unlawfully subjected to "officer recall" -- compelled to leave a group he founded and invested in because of a griefer grabbing the officer recall button by joining the group and forcing a vote. With 2/3 majority, an officer may be removed. These are real issues. They are issues that make SL the equivalent of a Russia where the state may seize your assets without due process.

There is definitely an allergy to commerce. There is a minority, but a vocal one, of players very angry about what they see as the commercialization of the game.

Robin has stated several times (I think three times, already) that they are going to think this one through a bit more carefully before moving forward too fast.

Yes, I agree, they have been poor at communicating with the community, but I think that was more because of a lack of resources and understanding of the importance of early warning systems than any desire to do the business segment of SL harm.

To say that LL is anti-business is completely disregarding the entire history and philosophies of SecondLife.

I think a better conclusion is SecondLife is "anti-businessruiningallthefun".

For example, rules against spamming are 'anti-business' in a way, but I'm sure we all want them for obvious reasons.

blaze, lurking under your seemingly pro-business exterior, including your apology for the Lindens, is the idea that in fact business *can* really "ruin all the fun" by being some kind of ugly spammer.

You yourself aren't starting a business you planned because of uncertainties about the private island advertising capacity.

I honestly don't think there is anything about freedom for events listing (which is changing only a bit) and freedom for Anshe to list her islands (which is NOT changing evidently) that would "ruin all the fun for everybody".

Your notions that business is some rapacious, greedy thing that "ruins all the fun" really needs to be examined. In fact, business provides a lot of the fun that can be gotten in this game.

I know of at least three land dealers who traded at fairly high levels who have all tiered down or even stopped playing in recent weeks. Why?

1. Constant problems with game grashes and sim performance, and the patches constantly screwing everything up for days -- this isn't anti-business but a factor in annoyance.

2. Ryan Linden's letter seeming to open the door to devaluation of land, which made the auction tank to $2/meter

3. The failure to give a clear answer about the Better Business Bureau and capacity for in-world investigations of fraud, on the one hand, and endeavors to protect one's business reputation from slander, on the other.

4. The decision to screw with the events calendar.

5. The sense that the Lindens own new continent and their own new land production devalues players' land elsewhere on the grids and keeps them off balance.

I fully grant that the Lindens are "in transition" or "moving their offices" or "tiering up" or whatever it is they do. OK. I don't ascribe to them some nasty commie conspiracy.

I'm just saying their default is not one to welcome business -- unless it fits their own notion of tekkie wiki type business that advances their own game code more than anything else.

Who could say truly that they are "anti-business" when their web page front page story is about a guy making a fortune selling a game he designed here? But that's my point. They fete business that fits the stereotype of the kewl tekkie. They do not fete things that do not fit that image.

They sell land on an auction, but they don't welcome others doing so, and even are willing to do thing like slow telehub production over their other perceived values of social engineering.

I'd love to see the pro-business welcome mat in the history you are talking about, blaze.

What I see is something called "Lab" that has scientists in it.

Again, I agree with your details.

I just don't think think Philip or Robin or David Fleck (which Linden is he?) gets together in the boardroom and rubs their hands "Ok, guys, let's get those businesses!"

I think they just worry, righhtfully so, about the commons getting overwhelmed.

That being said, with friends like these though who needs enemies.

Maybe that would have been a better title to your thread?

Oh Prokofy, thank you so much for mentioning me. I figured you would rear your ugly head sooner or later, so I will reply to this before putting you on ignore, since I cannot bear a single second longer of your inane postings.

As far as my feelings about Anshe, I have never been quiet about my thoughts regarding her business. However, in the case of the private island sims, I say more power to her. If it is working for her, great. However, the land for sale listing (which in your world of endlessly whining about fairness is unfair in and of itself as there is nothing comparable for non-land products for sale, but since it benefits you, you don't say a peep about it, you lame hypocrite) was being flooded with land that was not for sale.

Anshe can play the semantics game as much as she wants, but as there is nothing to enforce any contracts in SL (and Anshe is not the only player selling private island land), players were unwittingly being exposed to plots they could not actually buy and could potentially lose with no recourse. I simply asked a question in the hotline forum of why the land listing showed land for sale to individuals, since it was not available for purchase, and asked for a filter to filter them out. You blew a gasket over this and started insulting me, but in the end, Linden Lab found it problematic as well.

How many fake Russian references are you going to make, btw? It's really really tiresome. I know you have a hard on for Russia, but my god, you act like this is the USSL, and by your making these quasi-intellectual references to Russia you are exposing some truth about SL. All you are exposing is your impotence and propensity to cry at the gates because no one wants you (a self inflicted wound, I might add). You can hide behind big words and literary/political references, but anyone who knows all about you knows what a complete fraud you are anyway.

So with that, I now put you on ignore - something I should have done awhile ago. I can't stomach your cancerous nature anymore. I have noticed in your posts that even when you are wrong about something, you just can't admit it ever -you spin it in some other direction. It is a shame that you waste so much effort on such negativity all the time, Prokofy. Granted, you don't have much original thought - you often claim to have come up with ideas that have been proposed many times before you, but because you are the savior of USSL, you attribute them to you. Not surprising given your track record on here, but still one of the many reasons your posts make me ill.

No, blaze, it's not that I'm some unskillful "weaver," and have the "wrong conclusions" I just *don't agree with you*.

Part of the problem in this discussion is that you haven't read my initial essay. That shows. You think you can give it a pass because it's "too long" or "you know what it will say" or "you've seen it before". But all your arguments have already been addressed in advance.

And my chief premise, as on the tekki wiki discussion, is that like state capitalists or chaibolists or whatever RL equivalent you want to find, sure, LL engages in commerce but it isn't business in the liberal market sense. That is, they promote what helps the state and its promoters, but not a liberal, open market economy.

One ample evidence is their chokehold on growth. They've had Andrew Linden himself come on now and tell us that the tekkie wiki/FIC doesn't really exist, i.e. there is no grouplet holding back the game's growth but...if it did exist it would be a good idea...because the game needs to have a brake on it "not to grow too fast". Then any number of fangirlz come forward and explain haughtily that it is a good thing that the company not grow too fast...essentially filtering out all the unwashed masses.

Well, honestly, what part of "anti-business" don't you get here, blaze. When I say anti-business, I don't mean that the state and its loyal subjects don't engage in economic activity for a profit -- they do, like the Soviets did.

But is it a liberal market economy? No. Is it friendly to new investors, big investor in the game? No...unless they fit the prescribed tekkie/wiki vision which helps the game company's own code.

The ambivalent attitude toward the landowners, the problems with club ownerships and events and the desire to hobble them, etc. THIS is what I'm talking about. And you're wheeling out Kermit to prove that there must be no anti-business climate.

I agree that Robin's announcement about how the curbing of island advertisements on the land list wasn't intentionally designed to dick Anshe goes a long way to reassuring investor confidence. But...that was awfully careless, hmm? Not being clear on things like that? Sending mixed signals? And...it's still not clear. And...well, for $13,000 of islands, they had better be able to advertise them LOL, but...will they show as much concern for you or me for our $1000 investment? or two of us with $500 investments in a group? Or? THAT is the problem.

They take care of their own and foster dependency and favour-banks an old-boy networks. They don't make a world that can take of itself.

Richard Bartle is going to be at SL Future Salon! Things are looking up.