Feds to Woman: "Show ID." Woman to Feds: "No!" WOman Arrested

http://rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4274023,00.html

Now it is a variable that she is going into a federal area. I am not a globetrotter, but If I flew from California to France, stopped in the UK to refuel but didn't get off the plane, would I need to go through customs or get my passport stamped?

seems like a shot against states rights (jurisdiction)

Also, I don't agree with random ID checks AT ALL

Also related:

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/11/28/D8E5RPBO5.html

I agree with this statement. These two examples cause me concern, but the Miami police strategy is particualrly disturbing.

This does not seem to be a random ID check.

But, like Champie said, the Miami thing is kinda strange. I don't think that the 'in-your-face' strategy is workable. Why would terrorists not have several targets and simply target one that they police were not at? How does it make sense to let 'the terrorist know we are out there'? Do they honestly think the 'terrorists' don't know about them?

I don't believe in arguing with police in general.. They have a tough enough job without making it tougher. However, I don't think that "the current state of affairs" is such that the police should randomly ask for ID's for two simple reasons.
First.. IDs are so easy o "fake" that they don't prove a thing.
Second.. why should producing ANY kind of ID be required for someone who is apparently just sitting, riding a bus, whatever? It doesn't stop anything. The likelihood of actually cathcing a bad guy this way has to be EXTREMELY low.

I can't wait until I have to wear my little tye dye star everywhere so everyone will know I am a hippie!

At least the U.S. NEVER HAD a Reichstag fire

Well at least the U.S. doesn't have secret police

Well at least the U.S. doesn't invade countries who don't attack

Well at least the U.S. doesn't set up secret Death Camps Did I say, "Death Camps"? I meant, "Happy Camps"

Well at the least the U.S. isn't filled with Insurgents or religious fundamentalists trying to judicially impose their will on the populace

Well at least the U.S. doesn't have a propaganda machine.

At least the U.S. is good for the environment!

Well, at least we have a little flag button for our lapel and yellow ribbons for our S.U.V.s to make us feel good about it

(and cheap oil!!!!)

Wondering what any of this has to do with showing ID to federal authorities that is (and has been) done on a regular basis (since 1995) when citizens come onto federal property...
What is wrong with my tye dye T's?

Um... Did W abolish most of the human rights provisions of the constitution? Is it not still being discussed (Sununu, Feingold, Craig, Durbin to name a few)?

Where does this mention 'secret police'? They had most of the powers of the Patriot Act before 9/11. If you really want to get on a rant, start talking about FEMA...

Really? South Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, El Salvador, Cuba, should I go on?

It seems that an argument is erupting with in the system that set these up.

Really? We let everyone come here, there is no discrimination in our lack of border patrol...

Gosh, it feels the same from the other side Mulch. Especially considering that most of the progressive issues are trying to take religion out of all public affairs (governmental or not) to be politically correct. It even makes me mad that some cities are going smoke free. Should I feel discriminated against, not being able to smoke in my own little Honda?

Right... ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, Fox. I don't think a single one of them have the upper hand in propaganda. Take a look at world media and you will get quite a different view than that of the US media.

Again, right...

What is the deal with the ribbons? I have never really understood that... Is it a status symbol to say 'Look at me, I belong to this group and am better than anyone who doesn't'?

Since the bandying of quotes has started...

huh?

Actually, the ribbon from the song and cadence as far as I can tell, was supposed to be a sign that a woman was waiting for her man to return to her from war. The cadence talks about a woman wearing a yellow ribbon everywhere she goes doing things for the soldier who is far, far away. The song it is based on, if I remember right, is about a soldier coming home wondering if his woman is still his when he gets there. Many soldiers come home to a divorce, another man living with their wife, and sometimes empty bank accounts, no house, and no wife. Most military wives do not do this, but enough do that it is a concern to men overseas. I always thought the yellow ribbon was supposed to be a woman's way of showing those left behind on the military base that she is waiting for her husband, and she is planning to be faithful. The rumor is that some women leave soap in the window as a symbol of the opposite. I've never seen this, but it is mainly talked about by married men worried about what their wives are doing. Could be true, could be a myth made up by worrying husbands.

It is odd that the message has morphed into support our troops. In my mind it used to be more of a symbol of the girls out there staying true to the soldier. In all honesty, random people being happy about me being overseas to kill who they think are bad guys, in reality just acting as bomb bait killing no one, is not that big of a deal to me. If I had a woman at the time, I'd be much more concerned about whether she was waiting for me than random people I don't know.

This is a rather odd set of circumstances. This took place on a public bus route that cuts straight across a federal center that contains (among other things) a nuclear research reactor. What would be your answer to protecting the security of the facility and at the same time honoring the civil liberties of the bus riders? Removing her from the property was within the rights of the guards - arresting her and fining her? I don't think so.

i wouldn't route public transportation (or any transportation for that matter) through a nuclear reactor myself

I wondered if that would change the balance any. Actually this is not an uncommon situation. Many college campuses around the country have similar reactors. Most of the federal center does not really require tight security (at least, no more than your local library or bus station does).

BTW, while I think the Denver case is only a minor overstep and could be considered a reasonable compromise on liberty vs. security, what the police in Miami are suggesting is totally unnacceptable. Certainly the first part is. It's manufacturing terror and then imposing a police state without an actual threat.

...

I totally disagree. I don't feel that anyone should have to produce any sort of ID to the authorities unless they are involved in a crime. Why should I have to produce an ID if I'm just riding the bus and minding my own business?

It's these little breaches on our liberty that will, if unchecked, lead to a society gripped by fear and willing to give up our liberties for a false sense of security.

I could not agree more and if I am one of the unfortunates who happen to be visiting my bank when the swat team in Miami decides to play their manufactured terror games that day and they ask me for my ID, I will respectfully tell them that I do not have it with me. (I won't, I'll leave it in the car the second I see what's going on).

I am required by Florida law to tell them my name, which I will do, but no law says I have to spell it for them, which I will respectfully decline to do. I suspect that for this terrible descretion that I will be at very least handcuffed and held for disrupting the peace if not for something else. I will not condone or cooperate with these tactics. I am also going to write a letter to the Miami Herald editorial page and to the chief of police.

You know, I visited my ex husband's grandparents in Italy twenty years ago. They still lived in the same house that the family had during the second world war. They took me outside and showed me the bullet holes in the wall of the house where a group of young men from Mussolini's party (along with some Nazi's) came to their village (Lucca) to round up all the young people for the party - for training of course.

They were really pissed when they discovered that in passive resistance the old people had sent them over the border into France. So they lined a bunch of the old people up against his grandparents house and shot them (a great grandparent included).

They had some old pictures of some of these kids and I swear - these guys looked just like our modern swat police!

I guess it's easy to laugh it off, until you actually put your fingers into the plaster that was left by the bullet holes.

If you think people are any less crazy or fanatical than they were 80 years ago, think again.

.

Uh, yeah, same here.

In any case, it's not like she even wanted to get off the bus there. Checking everyone getting off, I can see there's logic in that. Demanding ID on a public bus route, no, I wouldn't be happy. And if there's thought to be a security problem there, let the bus change routes to skirt round the "security zone". I don't expect public buses to take me right to the door of my office.

ok so they check buses for terrorists but not cars, trucks, vans, motorcycles, mopeds, or giant machina that walk through there with nuclear reactors in them?

I work on a Military Base and every vehicle that passes through those gates has to have a decal or they stop to get a pass. Every passenger in that vehicle over age 11 has to show ID, with at least one person having a badge or Military ID. Entrance is denied if you don't.
Also, upon entering any of the buildings on the base where I work, there is a sign informing you that upon entering you are consenting to have your belongings searched. I have never seen this happen, but the notice has been up for many years.

Since there is a bus that travels around the Federal Center that doesn't require ID, she should take that one.