US airstrike against Pakistan

OK, conductiong an airstrike on the territory of a souvereign nation without its express permission is an act of war. Period. Well, alright, some might call it state sponsered terrorism but that word gets far too much use anyway. I certainly hope to see some public apologies for this as well as the people who conducted, planned, and authorized the strike handed over to Pakistan for prosecution.

FINALLY! Someone understands why we're attacking the terrorists after 9/11!!!

The "terrorists" are not a country.

Options:

1. Post was sarcasm.

2. You are the unlucky recipient of a botched lobotomy.

Ah yes, but exactly who and where are these terrorists? All those who commited the original offense, obviously, died in the act. The planners and funders are, it would seem, still around and the CIA thought it knew where one was and decided it would be the best idea to simply bomb the village. The thing is that each time you drop a bomb you create new enemies amoung the survivors and the friends and relatives of the dead. The Pakistani people will demand that their government bring those responsible to justice and if it cannot who would blame them for taking matters into their own hands?

Anyway, am I to understand from your reply that you would agree that Pakistan has the right to demand that those responsible for this bombing be handed over to Pakistan immediately much as the American government demanded that Afghanistan hand over bin-Laden? Do you agree that Pakistan would be well within its rights - should America fail to hand over these people - to invade America in order to bring these criminals to justice and topple the regime which shelters them?

Haha, do you think that the US did this without Pakistan knowing that we were doing it? The Pakistan government might pretend a little that they didn't know about it, but that's because they have a large amount of insane islamists in the country that they are trying to keep calm while they help us with the war.

Yea, and if we don't give Pakistan what they want, they will invade America. That's how it works!

I suppose you missed the part about Pakistani officials condemning the airstrike? Oh, of course, that's just pretend, they really want a foreign nation to pop by and bomb their citizens whenever there's the slightest inkling that there just might be some 'bad guys' hanging around.

Wow, if that sort of thinking is the norm then I suppose that George Bush would just give Vincent Fox a nudge and a wink if the Mexicans sent military aircraft into American airspace and bombed some small Texas town because they suspected that some Zapatistas had snuck in. After all, Mexico and the US are allies and surely America doesn't mind sacrificing a few paltry civilian lives when their good friends in the Mexican government have been having so much trouble with those pesky rebels for so long.

Well, if they were to follow the American example, that's exactly what they'd do.

Or did they?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm

Yes, the Pakistanis are condemning the fact that it was apparently a mistake. We killed Al Qaeda's number 3 a few weeks ago in exactly the same way, and Pakistan didn't have much to say about it.

Mexico is not America. Different countries have different amounts of power, so they are able to do different kinds of stuff than the countries that don't have as much power. Countries are not like people, "everyone is equal". That's not how it works.

They cannot possibly do that, so it isn't an option. Reality is what counts.

Yes, there is always that little glitch, plus quite a few more but as I don't want to complicate this thread with 911 whodunit arguements I'm assuming for the purposes of this discussion that the 'official' story is true.

Word. I'm not tryin to stir things up, Akuma. Just responding to your earlier statement. No dis intended.

Ah, the might makes right argument - that was quick.

If we're going to go that route remember this: America may have greater resources than other nations, but it isn't stronger than many of them put together, one of the resources that America has been liberally squandering for a while now is the goodwill of its allies.

As an ally Pakistan supports American military operations along its border, shares intelligence, and makes efforts to keep its nuclear technology out of the hands of those hostile to its allies. What would Pakistan as an enemy do? Would it simply withdraw its support and sit and sulk? Would the 70,000 troops currently stationed near the Afghan border ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4613108.stm ) roll into Afghanistan and 'liberate' it from the 20,000 American troops currently there, thus grandly humiliating America? Would they simply smile and nod in the press while behind the scenes they quietly slip an atom bomb or two to certain people, perhaps throwing in a map of New York as a helpful hint?

Some people think it's OK to kick a dog as long as it can't bite back. They would do well to check the state of its teeth first.

Gosh, hate to say it but Stank is right.

Since Pakistan is a Military Dictatorship and is "in bed" with the USA, it's pretty clear that they *do* know all about this stuff and that the Dictator himself and the Military/Secret Police of that Pakistan have tacitly approved of such tactics.

I think the point being argued was about the legal realities however, not what was happening in "backroom" deals.

Legally, Pakistan is a sovereign country and legally what the US did *is* an act of war. But then the fact that something is illegal or immoral has never stopped the US from doing whatever it wants before. It's just that under the current administration, tactics are a good deal more extreme and no one seems to bothering with the pretense of legality.

Non taken. Just trying to stay on topic, so far as that is possible.

Yes, in reality, stronger things can do more stuff than weaker things. No matter how hard you try to pretend that that's not the case, it won't ever change.

Squandering the goodwill of our allies? Haha, really? Well, I guess you're referring to France and Germany being upset that the US, along with quite a few other countries, decided to be adults and remove Saddam and his people from power. France was upset because they wanted to continue making illegal special deals with Saddam for oil. Oh no, the country that was causing the sanctions to be worthless is upset at the adults of the world for ignoring them. Boo hoo. Which other allies are we "squandering" and how?

I wasn't stating that the weak are more capable than the strong Stank, quite the opposite. I was merely reminding you that America's strength isn't infinite and part of the strength of any country is in its allies.

As for which ally I was referring to, I was quite specifically -and obviously- referring to Pakistan. Dianne is quite right when she say that Pakistan is a military dictatorship in bed with the US, the point is that the US must behave in such a manner that it continues to be in the interests of those who hold power in Pakistan to share that bed. Even if the government of Pakistan is entirely comprised of completely amoral creatures who bathe daily in the blood of babies there are only so many villages it can allow to be bombed before it will have an open revolution on its hands - or just needs to do something to save face.

Whoever battles with monsters had better see that it does not turn him into a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
-Friedrich Nietzsche

Yea, nothing's power is infinite. The US has been working with Pakistan since 9/11 to get rid of the terrorists that are in Pakistan. Pakistan isn't "in bed" with the US, the US is working with them. Al Qaeda would very much like to take over Pakistan, we are doing what is necessary to prevent that, because that would be very bad.

When you said "America has been liberally squandering for a while now is the goodwill of its allies.", obviously you were referring to more than one ally. Which other allies have we squandered?

I doubt there's going to be any "open revolution" in Pakistan. People in Pakistan are bright enough to understand that they don't want terrorists taking over their country.