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Chance Abattoir

Future Rockin' Resmod

Join date: 3 Apr 2004

Posts: 3,898

12-15-2005 08:06

I saw this quote in the thread regarding the Freedom Cage Act, but I want to see it in context before I start quoting it myself. I am having trouble finding it in context. Any sources?

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
--Benjamin Franklin, 1759

Oh, and look at this site: http://www.mises.org/story/1144

My favorite Franklin quote from that site is: "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."

...but I would also like the to find it in context.

_____________________

"The mob requires regular doses of scandal, paranoia and dilemma to alleviate the boredom of a meaningless existence."
-Insane Ramblings, Anton LaVey

Jessica Robertson

Registered User

Join date: 3 Dec 2004

Posts: 412

12-15-2005 08:12

http://www.futureofthebook.com/stories/storyReader$605

Chance Abattoir

Future Rockin' Resmod

Join date: 3 Apr 2004

Posts: 3,898

12-15-2005 08:23

Heh, I was wondering about the "they that" that I saw so many times while searching on Google.

What about the lamb quote?

_____________________

"The mob requires regular doses of scandal, paranoia and dilemma to alleviate the boredom of a meaningless existence."
-Insane Ramblings, Anton LaVey

Torley Linden

Enlightenment!

Join date: 15 Sep 2004

Posts: 16,530

12-15-2005 08:28

What did he mean by "well-armed lamb"? Lamb with weapons?

_____________________

Chance Abattoir

Future Rockin' Resmod

Join date: 3 Apr 2004

Posts: 3,898

12-15-2005 08:30

From: Torley Torgeson

What did he mean by "well-armed lamb"? Lamb with weapons?

The quote alone suggest this, but I'd like to see it in context to rule out the possibility of a buff lamb with 6" pythons.

_____________________

"The mob requires regular doses of scandal, paranoia and dilemma to alleviate the boredom of a meaningless existence."
-Insane Ramblings, Anton LaVey

Torley Linden

Enlightenment!

Join date: 15 Sep 2004

Posts: 16,530

12-15-2005 08:37

From: Chance Abattoir

The quote alone suggest this, but I'd like to see it in context to rule out the possibility of a buff lamb with 6" pythons.

Agree highly!

_____________________

Sable Sunset

Prim Herder

Join date: 15 Apr 2005

Posts: 223

12-15-2005 08:54

Well-armed lamb...?

_____________________

Zuzu Fassbinder

Little Miss No Tomorrow

Join date: 17 Sep 2004

Posts: 2,048

12-15-2005 09:05

From: Chance Abattoir

The quote alone suggest this, but I'd like to see it in context to rule out the possibility of a buff lamb with 6" pythons.

awww

_____________________

From: Bud

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Dianne Mechanique

Back from the Dead

Join date: 28 Mar 2005

Posts: 2,648

12-15-2005 09:10

From: Chance Abattoir

I saw this quote in the thread regarding the Freedom Cage Act, but I want to see it in context before I start quoting it myself. I am having trouble finding it in context. Any sources?

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
--Benjamin Franklin, 1759

Oh, and look at this site: http://www.mises.org/story/1144

My favorite Franklin quote from that site is: "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."

...but I would also like the to find it in context.

That second one about the lamb doesn't sound so "ben frankliny" to me, unless he was talking about the revolutionary war itself and the need to be armed against England at that specific time and place.

_____________________

.
black
art furniture & classic clothing
===================
Black in Neufreistadt
Black @ ONE
Black @ www.SLBoutique.com

.

Jessica Robertson

Registered User

Join date: 3 Dec 2004

Posts: 412

12-15-2005 09:31

I think the exact quote is, "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb discussing what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."

It is attributed to Benjamin Franklin, but according to the Wiki, does not appear in any of his writings.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Politics#Democracy

But, much much funnier is this quote I found while searching for the above:

"A zebra does not change its spots." -Al Gore

Elspeth Withnail

Completely Trustworthy

Join date: 24 Jan 2005

Posts: 317

12-15-2005 09:47

From: Torley Torgeson

What did he mean by "well-armed lamb"? Lamb with weapons?

*ahem*

Chosen Few

Alpha Channel Slave

Join date: 16 Jan 2004

Posts: 7,496

12-15-2005 10:29

Funny cartoons aside (and I did love them), it seems some people may have a legitimate question here, so let me offer my interpretation. I think it's quite obvious the "well armed lamb" is not reference to weaponry or war. The "armament" is just as metaphoric as the wolves and the lamb. It's a statement about what freedom and democracy are supposed to mean in this country, especially in reference to minority vs. majority viewpoints, and particularly when the majority has a vested interest. The point is little guy must be just as empowered as the big dogs in order for liberty to exist.

Oh, and while we're on the subject, I'll jump on the bandwagon and add my favorite Franklin quote to the mix.

"Dost thou love life? Then do not squander time, for time is the stuff life is made of."

I used to work for Franklin Covey. That one kind of stuck with me. It used to be on the front of every Franklin Planner.

_____________________

.

Land now available for rent in Indigo. Low rates. Quiet, low-lag mainland sim with good neighbors. IM me in-world if you're interested.

Chance Abattoir

Future Rockin' Resmod

Join date: 3 Apr 2004

Posts: 3,898

12-15-2005 11:01

From: Chosen Few

The "armament" is just as metaphoric as the wolves and the lamb.

Exactly why I want to source it. Out of context it could be interpreted many different ways. If Franklin definitely didn't write it, it'd be nice to know who did.

_____________________

"The mob requires regular doses of scandal, paranoia and dilemma to alleviate the boredom of a meaningless existence."
-Insane Ramblings, Anton LaVey

Ulrika Zugzwang

Magnanimous in Victory

Join date: 10 Jun 2004

Posts: 6,382

12-15-2005 23:33

From: Chance Abattoir

My favorite Franklin quote from that site is: "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."

I've heard the first part of that quote but not the last. I remember being quite shocked so long ago, when I realized that democracy is actually a bad thing (for minorities anyway).

Upon seeing the second sentence, it seems that it should be liberty we promote instead of the cliché that has become democracy. Although once the politicians got ahold of the term, would it still be liberty?

Sorry. Just a little free-form postcount++ action.

~Ulrika~

_____________________

Chik-chik-chika-ahh

Zuzu Fassbinder

Little Miss No Tomorrow

Join date: 17 Sep 2004

Posts: 2,048

12-16-2005 05:15

The reality is actually a well armed wolf convincing all the sheep that they have to watch out for other wolves while he has his lunch.

_____________________

From: Bud

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

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Chance Abattoir Future Rockin' Resmod Join date: 3 Apr 2004 Posts: 3,898	12-15-2005 08:06 I saw this quote in the thread regarding the Freedom Cage Act, but I want to see it in context before I start quoting it myself. I am having trouble finding it in context. Any sources? "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Oh, and look at this site: http://www.mises.org/story/1144 My favorite Franklin quote from that site is: "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." ...but I would also like the to find it in context. _____________________ "The mob requires regular doses of scandal, paranoia and dilemma to alleviate the boredom of a meaningless existence." -Insane Ramblings, Anton LaVey
Jessica Robertson Registered User Join date: 3 Dec 2004 Posts: 412	12-15-2005 08:12 http://www.futureofthebook.com/stories/storyReader$605
Chance Abattoir Future Rockin' Resmod Join date: 3 Apr 2004 Posts: 3,898	12-15-2005 08:23 Heh, I was wondering about the "they that" that I saw so many times while searching on Google. What about the lamb quote? _____________________ "The mob requires regular doses of scandal, paranoia and dilemma to alleviate the boredom of a meaningless existence." -Insane Ramblings, Anton LaVey
Torley Linden Enlightenment! Join date: 15 Sep 2004 Posts: 16,530	12-15-2005 08:28 What did he mean by "well-armed lamb"? Lamb with weapons? _____________________
Chance Abattoir Future Rockin' Resmod Join date: 3 Apr 2004 Posts: 3,898	12-15-2005 08:30 From: Torley Torgeson What did he mean by "well-armed lamb"? Lamb with weapons? The quote alone suggest this, but I'd like to see it in context to rule out the possibility of a buff lamb with 6" pythons. _____________________ "The mob requires regular doses of scandal, paranoia and dilemma to alleviate the boredom of a meaningless existence." -Insane Ramblings, Anton LaVey
Torley Linden Enlightenment! Join date: 15 Sep 2004 Posts: 16,530	12-15-2005 08:37 From: Chance Abattoir The quote alone suggest this, but I'd like to see it in context to rule out the possibility of a buff lamb with 6" pythons. Agree highly! _____________________
Sable Sunset Prim Herder Join date: 15 Apr 2005 Posts: 223	12-15-2005 08:54 Well-armed lamb...? _____________________
Zuzu Fassbinder Little Miss No Tomorrow Join date: 17 Sep 2004 Posts: 2,048	12-15-2005 09:05 From: Chance Abattoir The quote alone suggest this, but I'd like to see it in context to rule out the possibility of a buff lamb with 6" pythons. awww _____________________ From: Bud I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.
Dianne Mechanique Back from the Dead Join date: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 2,648	12-15-2005 09:10 From: Chance Abattoir I saw this quote in the thread regarding the Freedom Cage Act, but I want to see it in context before I start quoting it myself. I am having trouble finding it in context. Any sources? "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Oh, and look at this site: http://www.mises.org/story/1144 My favorite Franklin quote from that site is: "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." ...but I would also like the to find it in context. That second one about the lamb doesn't sound so "ben frankliny" to me, unless he was talking about the revolutionary war itself and the need to be armed against England at that specific time and place. _____________________ . black art furniture & classic clothing =================== Black in Neufreistadt Black @ ONE Black @ www.SLBoutique.com .
Jessica Robertson Registered User Join date: 3 Dec 2004 Posts: 412	12-15-2005 09:31 I think the exact quote is, "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb discussing what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." It is attributed to Benjamin Franklin, but according to the Wiki, does not appear in any of his writings. http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Politics#Democracy But, much much funnier is this quote I found while searching for the above: "A zebra does not change its spots." -Al Gore
Elspeth Withnail Completely Trustworthy Join date: 24 Jan 2005 Posts: 317	12-15-2005 09:47 From: Torley Torgeson What did he mean by "well-armed lamb"? Lamb with weapons? ahem
Chosen Few Alpha Channel Slave Join date: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 7,496	12-15-2005 10:29 Funny cartoons aside (and I did love them), it seems some people may have a legitimate question here, so let me offer my interpretation. I think it's quite obvious the "well armed lamb" is not reference to weaponry or war. The "armament" is just as metaphoric as the wolves and the lamb. It's a statement about what freedom and democracy are supposed to mean in this country, especially in reference to minority vs. majority viewpoints, and particularly when the majority has a vested interest. The point is little guy must be just as empowered as the big dogs in order for liberty to exist. Oh, and while we're on the subject, I'll jump on the bandwagon and add my favorite Franklin quote to the mix. "Dost thou love life? Then do not squander time, for time is the stuff life is made of." I used to work for Franklin Covey. That one kind of stuck with me. It used to be on the front of every Franklin Planner. _____________________ . Land now available for rent in Indigo. Low rates. Quiet, low-lag mainland sim with good neighbors. IM me in-world if you're interested.
Chance Abattoir Future Rockin' Resmod Join date: 3 Apr 2004 Posts: 3,898	12-15-2005 11:01 From: Chosen Few The "armament" is just as metaphoric as the wolves and the lamb. Exactly why I want to source it. Out of context it could be interpreted many different ways. If Franklin definitely didn't write it, it'd be nice to know who did. _____________________ "The mob requires regular doses of scandal, paranoia and dilemma to alleviate the boredom of a meaningless existence." -Insane Ramblings, Anton LaVey
Ulrika Zugzwang Magnanimous in Victory Join date: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 6,382	12-15-2005 23:33 From: Chance Abattoir My favorite Franklin quote from that site is: "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." I've heard the first part of that quote but not the last. I remember being quite shocked so long ago, when I realized that democracy is actually a bad thing (for minorities anyway). Upon seeing the second sentence, it seems that it should be liberty we promote instead of the cliché that has become democracy. Although once the politicians got ahold of the term, would it still be liberty? Sorry. Just a little free-form postcount++ action. ~Ulrika~ _____________________ Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Zuzu Fassbinder Little Miss No Tomorrow Join date: 17 Sep 2004 Posts: 2,048	12-16-2005 05:15 The reality is actually a well armed wolf convincing all the sheep that they have to watch out for other wolves while he has his lunch. _____________________ From: Bud I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.