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China: Continues to be the biggest religious rights offenders in the world

Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,905
04-13-2006 13:40
Quick back story:
Since China invaded Tibet and the Dalai Lama and his followers fled to neighboring countries, China has aggressively tried to suppress Buddhism. The Dalai Lama is in a long line of Dalai Lamas who were legitimately chosen within the Buddhist religion. The mechanics is basically:

Buddhist monks -> choose -> Panchen Lama -> choose -> new Dalai Lama after the old one passes away.

In 1995, China purportedly kidnapped the rightfully named Panchen Lama, and announced their own choice. This is the absolute hijacking of a religion - imagine if the entire collection of catholic bishops were kidnapped and a new Pope chosen by a country's communist leaders. This is literally the equivalent.

Because the Buddhists are non-violent, this continues without war.

BBC's article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4905140.stm

China hosts first Buddhism forum
Buddhists at the World Buddhist Forum in China


Buddhists from more than 30 countries are in China for the World Buddhist Forum - communist China's first international religious gathering.

Hundreds of monks and scholars are visiting the eastern city of Hangzhou, but Buddhist spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama, has not been invited.

China regards the exiled Tibetan leader as a separatist.

It has made its choice of Panchen Lama - Tibet's second most important figure - the figurehead of the conference.

But according to Reuters news agency he appeared to be shunned by delegates.

Fellow Buddhists made no attempt to greet Gyaltsen Norbu during greeting ceremonies ahead of the conference on Wednesday, the agency reported.

The Dalai Lama has nominated his own Panchen Lama, who has disappeared and is believed to be under house arrest.

China appointed Gyaltsen Norbu in his place in 1995.

Tight Rein

China has about 100 million Buddhists.

The officially atheist communist party keeps a tight rein on all religious activities, fearing a possible challenge to its authority, says the BBC's Dan Griffiths in the Chinese capital.

China's chosen Panchen Lama, Gyaltsen Norbu
Gyaltsen Norbu made a rare public appearance

Worship is only allowed through state-run organisations. Many monks and nuns have been jailed for their loyalty to the Dalai Lama, and followers of underground Christian churches have also received lengthy prison sentences.

China said it did not want the Dalai Lama to "disharmonise" the forum, which opens on Thursday and runs until Sunday.

"The Dalai Lama is not only a religious figure, but is also a long-time stubborn secessionist who has tried to split his Chinese motherland and break the unity among different ethnic groups," said Qi Xiaofei, vice-director of the state administration for religious affairs.

But China is trying to thaw relations with religious establishments, including the Vatican, our correspondent says.

Beijing is also hoping that the meeting in Hangzhou will ease US criticism of China's religious freedoms ahead of President Hu Jintao's visit to Washington next week, he adds.
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Hiro Pendragon
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Neehai Zapata
Unofficial Parent
Join date: 8 Apr 2004
Posts: 1,970
04-13-2006 17:03
Why do those religions keep wanting special rights?
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
04-13-2006 17:37
From: Neehai Zapata
Why do those religions keep wanting special rights?


Which special right is that, the right to exist?
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Ananda Sandgrain
+0-
Join date: 16 May 2003
Posts: 1,951
04-13-2006 17:53
From: Reitsuki Kojima
Which special right is that, the right to exist?


That's the one.
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Kiari LeFay
Lemon Flavored Fish Treat
Join date: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 223
04-13-2006 18:41
Hiro,

The next Dalai Lama will not be chosen by the Chinese picked Panchen Lama. There are methods in place for if the Panchen Lama is dead and not yet reincarnated or not yet old enough to make decisions, and the Dalai Lama has indicated that if the true Panchen Lama is still prisoner then those are the methods that will be followed.

I'm guessing that China will eventually let him go (if he wasn't just killed outright)... not after intensive brainwashing or electroshock therapy though.
Neehai Zapata
Unofficial Parent
Join date: 8 Apr 2004
Posts: 1,970
04-13-2006 19:15
From: Reitsuki Kojima
Which special right is that, the right to exist?

Among others. Give them to much and the next thing you know they will want to not pay taxes.
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Schwanson Schlegel
SL's Tokin' Villain
Join date: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 2,721
04-13-2006 19:20
General Tsao will kick their asses.
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Zuzu Fassbinder
Little Miss No Tomorrow
Join date: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,048
04-13-2006 19:27
From: Schwanson Schlegel
General Tsao will kick their asses.

Nonesense, he will never dampen their Happy Family.
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From: Bud
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Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,905
04-13-2006 23:49
From: Kiari LeFay
Hiro,

The next Dalai Lama will not be chosen by the Chinese picked Panchen Lama. There are methods in place for if the Panchen Lama is dead and not yet reincarnated or not yet old enough to make decisions, and the Dalai Lama has indicated that if the true Panchen Lama is still prisoner then those are the methods that will be followed.

I'm guessing that China will eventually let him go (if he wasn't just killed outright)... not after intensive brainwashing or electroshock therapy though.

Kiari, thank you for that knowledge. That's reassuring to hear.
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Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
04-14-2006 04:19
There is no such thing as a worldwide guaranteed right to religion. In an ideal world, yes..but we don't live in an ideal world. Therefore, your 'right to religion' cannot be violated outside of countries that include it - as it does not exist to be violated.
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
04-14-2006 04:50
From: Jonas Pierterson
There is no such thing as a worldwide guaranteed right to religion. In an ideal world, yes..but we don't live in an ideal world. Therefore, your 'right to religion' cannot be violated outside of countries that include it - as it does not exist to be violated.


The same could be said of freedom from slavery, for example - doesn't mean that we don't rally against it when we see it.
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I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
Elijah Sterling
Registered User
Join date: 8 May 2006
Posts: 1
05-13-2006 19:44
Tibet has been a territory of China for more than 1,000 years. But with that aside, Chican could be enforcing one of the leading principles of Buddhism, which is the suppression of ego. You much understand, a true "Buddhist" will not consider themself a Buddhist. To our egotistical, individualistic western culture most of us are brought up in, it's easy to for us to say that China is taking the rights away from individuals. China has been fonded on "Buddhist" ideology since the "religion" exsisted. There probably isn't a society in this world that impliments Buddha's teachings more than in China. But areas in China, such as Tibet has departed from the non-egotistical point of views and formed their own identity, their own culture, etc. This conflicts with China's collectivist fondation which was tought by many buddhist masters for over 2,500 years. A westerner likes to think of Buddhism as a religion, but it is not a religion. Buddhism is like a tooth biting itself or an eye seeing itself. China isn't taking away Buddhism pursue, it is more like teaching its people the core concept the previous buddhas have tought in the past. Identity will only lead to suffering, and corruption in which the goverment fears this concept of "religion" will create, thus; must be extinguished so its people will be directed towards the universal truth. Perhaps this is a test. If you are upset about the "invation" of Tibet, you are not a buddhist, if you are upset because the government is taking away peoples rights in China, you are not a buddhist. If you preceive yourself as "self", you are not a buddhist. Finally, if you think you are buddhist, then you are not a buddhist.
Richie Waves
Predictable
Join date: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 1,424
05-13-2006 19:57
From: Hiro Pendragon

Because the Buddhists are non-violent, this continues without war.



problem solved *washes hands*

























jk*
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
05-13-2006 20:00
From: Elijah Sterling
appologist rhetoric


Which all boils down to the exact same thing, no matter how you dress it up: China is attempting to forcefully control religion through hostile methods.
_____________________
I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
Vares Solvang
It's all Relative
Join date: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 2,235
Religious rights?
05-13-2006 20:04
China continues to be the biggest offender of human rights in general.
Musuko Massiel
Registered User
Join date: 4 Nov 2005
Posts: 435
05-13-2006 20:13
"Tibet has been a territory of China for more than 1,000 years."

Knock a zero off of that:

"The Anglo-Chinese Convention of 1906 recognized Chinese sovereignty over the region (Tibet)".

"The Qing central government established direct rule over Tibet for the first time in 1910."

Good old Wikipedia.

Musuko.
Almarea Lumiere
Registered User
Join date: 6 May 2004
Posts: 258
05-13-2006 20:43
From: Musuko Massiel
Good old Wikipedia.
Perhaps his ISP blocks access to Wikipedia.
Shockwave Plasma
Mad Scientists Daughter
Join date: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 34
05-14-2006 07:18
From: Almarea Lumiere
Perhaps his ISP blocks access to Wikipedia.


Possibly he sees the result of a Chinese google search.
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PetGirl Bergman
Fellow Creature:-)
Join date: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,414
05-14-2006 08:06
Wonder who owned AL land from the beginning if we shall start talking about who owned it from 1000 year or 500 or.. maybe 10.000..

Next - the scary thing are that China took it and no one - no regime say any... not even FN.. who' s next to become expropriated?


/Tina

http://www.amnesty.org/

http://www.internationalpen.org.uk/

http://www.icrc.org/
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