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Kazuo Murakami

Sofa King

Join date: 31 Aug 2005

Posts: 359

12-06-2005 16:10

From: someone

"The proposed plantation scheme, funded by the China Development Bank, is expected to cover an area of 1.8 million hectares, equivalent to about half the size of The Netherlands..."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/12/06/indonesia.new.species.reut/index.html

Mother Nature was busy being repeatedly kicked in the face by humanity, and could not be reached for comment.

Ulrika Zugzwang

Magnanimous in Victory

Join date: 10 Jun 2004

Posts: 6,382

12-06-2005 17:03

The announcement of the plantation in that story is heartbreaking. I went from fascinated to depressed in two paragraphs.

~Ulrika~

_____________________

Chik-chik-chika-ahh

Aliasi Stonebender

Return of Catbread

Join date: 30 Jan 2005

Posts: 1,858

12-06-2005 17:07

This is not to disagree with the main thrust of the post (because, well, people SHOULD be more environmentally responsible) but rather, just a philosophical pondering.

Why do people constantly talk as if humanity was not part of nature? Religious teachings aside, a predator that is well-adapted to its environment and naturally drives out and hunts to exinction other animals is exactly as natural as humans doing the same thing, for the same reason. Other animals get fangs, or wings, or can live for extended period without water... we get abstract thought.

(Now, to argue against my own devil's-advocacy, the fact that humans can plan ahead is - to me - why we must think in a more environmentally-conscious way; because we can figure out ways to get what we want done without trampling all over everything.)

Sorry, just a brain-fart, really...

_____________________

Red Mary says, softly, “How a man grows aggressive when his enemy displays propriety. He thinks: I will use this good behavior to enforce my advantage over her. Is it any wonder people hold good behavior in such disregard?”
Anything Surplus Home to the "Nuke the Crap Out of..." series of games and other stuff

Zapoteth Zaius

Is back

Join date: 14 Feb 2004

Posts: 5,634

12-06-2005 17:08

That reminds me, anyone know if things like this actually do stuff? I do it when I remember lol..

_____________________

I have the right to remain silent. Anything I say will be misquoted and used against me.
---------------
Zapoteth Designs, Temotu (100,50)
---------------

Kazuo Murakami

Sofa King

Join date: 31 Aug 2005

Posts: 359

12-06-2005 17:36

Aliasi, its not that we're not part of nature, its simply the fact that we are the only species with the knowledge and power (if you want to call it that) to do things like, as an extreme example, utterly and completely destroy all life on the planet in a matter of hours.

I'll admit, I've got a weak spot for animals, but even if one was inclined to utter apathy about the plight of other species, there is still the matter of the consequences of such clearly unsustainable practices. Yes, its an extremely complex issue, but the fact is massive enviornmental destruction for the sake of a quick buck results in major, potentially critical consequences for our planet, despite what those currently in power would have you believe.

Aliasi Stonebender

Return of Catbread

Join date: 30 Jan 2005

Posts: 1,858

12-06-2005 20:22

From: Kazuo Murakami

Aliasi, its not that we're not part of nature, its simply the fact that we are the only species with the knowledge and power (if you want to call it that) to do things like, as an extreme example, utterly and completely destroy all life on the planet in a matter of hours.

It is true that we can do this. So can a great big rock that happens to get caught by Earth's gravity well the wrong way. Hell, a virus or microorganism that mutates just right can lay us all low.

For me, the wonder is not that we can destroy it all, but that we consistently have not done so. Not in a "we're so lucky" sense, just... well, just as a for-example, 60 years ago the first two atomic bombs were dropped as an act of war; those two bombs are still the only ones ever used outside of tests.

Somehow, nobody finds this amazing.

From: someone

I'll admit, I've got a weak spot for animals, but even if one was inclined to utter apathy about the plight of other species, there is still the matter of the consequences of such clearly unsustainable practices. Yes, its an extremely complex issue, but the fact is massive enviornmental destruction for the sake of a quick buck results in major, potentially critical consequences for our planet, despite what those currently in power would have you believe.

You'll note I was agreeing with you; my other point was a side-track. I test opinions to destruction.

_____________________

Red Mary says, softly, “How a man grows aggressive when his enemy displays propriety. He thinks: I will use this good behavior to enforce my advantage over her. Is it any wonder people hold good behavior in such disregard?”
Anything Surplus Home to the "Nuke the Crap Out of..." series of games and other stuff

Discovery To Extinction in...
Kazuo Murakami Sofa King Join date: 31 Aug 2005 Posts: 359	12-06-2005 16:10 From: someone "The proposed plantation scheme, funded by the China Development Bank, is expected to cover an area of 1.8 million hectares, equivalent to about half the size of The Netherlands..." http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/12/06/indonesia.new.species.reut/index.html Mother Nature was busy being repeatedly kicked in the face by humanity, and could not be reached for comment.
Ulrika Zugzwang Magnanimous in Victory Join date: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 6,382	12-06-2005 17:03 The announcement of the plantation in that story is heartbreaking. I went from fascinated to depressed in two paragraphs. ~Ulrika~ _____________________ Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Aliasi Stonebender Return of Catbread Join date: 30 Jan 2005 Posts: 1,858	12-06-2005 17:07 This is not to disagree with the main thrust of the post (because, well, people SHOULD be more environmentally responsible) but rather, just a philosophical pondering. Why do people constantly talk as if humanity was not part of nature? Religious teachings aside, a predator that is well-adapted to its environment and naturally drives out and hunts to exinction other animals is exactly as natural as humans doing the same thing, for the same reason. Other animals get fangs, or wings, or can live for extended period without water... we get abstract thought. (Now, to argue against my own devil's-advocacy, the fact that humans can plan ahead is - to me - why we must think in a more environmentally-conscious way; because we can figure out ways to get what we want done without trampling all over everything.) Sorry, just a brain-fart, really... _____________________ Red Mary says, softly, “How a man grows aggressive when his enemy displays propriety. He thinks: I will use this good behavior to enforce my advantage over her. Is it any wonder people hold good behavior in such disregard?” Anything Surplus Home to the "Nuke the Crap Out of..." series of games and other stuff
Zapoteth Zaius Is back Join date: 14 Feb 2004 Posts: 5,634	12-06-2005 17:08 That reminds me, anyone know if things like this actually do stuff? I do it when I remember lol.. _____________________ I have the right to remain silent. Anything I say will be misquoted and used against me. --------------- Zapoteth Designs, Temotu (100,50) ---------------
Kazuo Murakami Sofa King Join date: 31 Aug 2005 Posts: 359	12-06-2005 17:36 Aliasi, its not that we're not part of nature, its simply the fact that we are the only species with the knowledge and power (if you want to call it that) to do things like, as an extreme example, utterly and completely destroy all life on the planet in a matter of hours. I'll admit, I've got a weak spot for animals, but even if one was inclined to utter apathy about the plight of other species, there is still the matter of the consequences of such clearly unsustainable practices. Yes, its an extremely complex issue, but the fact is massive enviornmental destruction for the sake of a quick buck results in major, potentially critical consequences for our planet, despite what those currently in power would have you believe.
Aliasi Stonebender Return of Catbread Join date: 30 Jan 2005 Posts: 1,858	12-06-2005 20:22 From: Kazuo Murakami Aliasi, its not that we're not part of nature, its simply the fact that we are the only species with the knowledge and power (if you want to call it that) to do things like, as an extreme example, utterly and completely destroy all life on the planet in a matter of hours. It is true that we can do this. So can a great big rock that happens to get caught by Earth's gravity well the wrong way. Hell, a virus or microorganism that mutates just right can lay us all low. For me, the wonder is not that we can destroy it all, but that we consistently have not done so. Not in a "we're so lucky" sense, just... well, just as a for-example, 60 years ago the first two atomic bombs were dropped as an act of war; those two bombs are still the only ones ever used outside of tests. Somehow, nobody finds this amazing. From: someone I'll admit, I've got a weak spot for animals, but even if one was inclined to utter apathy about the plight of other species, there is still the matter of the consequences of such clearly unsustainable practices. Yes, its an extremely complex issue, but the fact is massive enviornmental destruction for the sake of a quick buck results in major, potentially critical consequences for our planet, despite what those currently in power would have you believe. You'll note I was agreeing with you; my other point was a side-track. I test opinions to destruction. _____________________ Red Mary says, softly, “How a man grows aggressive when his enemy displays propriety. He thinks: I will use this good behavior to enforce my advantage over her. Is it any wonder people hold good behavior in such disregard?” Anything Surplus Home to the "Nuke the Crap Out of..." series of games and other stuff

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