http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/01/26/palestinian.election/index.html
So what's the move when people who believe in blowing children up start getting elected?
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Aaron Levy
Medicated Lately?
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01-26-2006 01:41
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Chance Abattoir
Future Rockin' Resmod
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01-26-2006 02:05
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/01/26/palestinian.election/index.html So what's the move when people who believe in blowing children up start getting elected? Mixed feelings. I share your headline. What's next, does Al Qaeda get a country too? Bizarre. _____________________
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Selador Cellardoor
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01-26-2006 02:20
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/01/26/palestinian.election/index.html So what's the move when people who believe in blowing children up start getting elected? The irony of this post is mind-blowing. _____________________
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Kendra Bancroft
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01-26-2006 02:22
The irony of this post is mind-blowing. I know. _____________________
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Aaron Levy
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01-26-2006 02:59
Oh, yeah I get it... blowing the same horn with no change in tone whatsoever... Bush got elected for the sole purpose of blowing up children and innocent people. Right. Got it. I guess in your case it was put the best you got against him and still lose the election to get him out.
Now, back to the Middle East -- what do you do when a terrorist organization, who opening, not even behind doors, says they are going to kill every single Jew in the world, what do you do when they get into power? Hmmm... One did a while back and what happened? _____________________
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Aliasi Stonebender
Return of Catbread
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
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01-26-2006 06:02
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/01/26/palestinian.election/index.html So what's the move when people who believe in blowing children up start getting elected? Ironically, it's the best way yet devised to get Hamas to stop doing that. Running a government's a tough job; if they botch it, the average Palistinian will react much as anyone would; if they succeed, it means the people in the organization are having to devote more attention to getting people fed than violence. It's really unlikely Hamas will win a majority, but it does mean the two parties will have to start to compromise. _____________________
Red Mary says, softly, “How a man grows aggressive when his enemy displays propriety. He thinks: I will use this good behavior to enforce my advantage over her. Is it any wonder people hold good behavior in such disregard?”
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Taco Rubio
also quite creepy
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01-26-2006 06:19
Now, back to the Middle East -- what do you do when a terrorist organization, who opening, not even behind doors, says they are going to kill every single Jew in the world, what do you do when they get into power? Can you post this a link to this source, please? _____________________
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Aaron Levy
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01-26-2006 06:32
Can you post this a link to this source, please? http://www.yahoodi.com/peace/hamas.html The page has a great writeup on the covenant published by Hamas in 1988, that said, in part: In November 1988, Hamas published a covenant which was an attempt to systematically present the movement's ideology, in contrast to the PLO covenant. It presents the Arab-Israeli conflict as the epitome of an inherently irreconcilable struggle between Jews and Muslims, and Judaism and Islam. It is not a national or territorial conflict but a historical, religious, cultural and existential conflict between "truth and falsehood," the believers and the infidels, in which one side will eventually be the victor. The only way to confront this struggle is through Islam and by means of jihad (holy war), until victory or martyrdom. "The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews [and kill them]; until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: Oh Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!? This ideology is represented in the movement's emblem, which shows the Qur'an and a sword. Reflecting this point of view, the Hamas leaflets were the most vociferous of all leaflets distributed by the Palestinian organizations during the Intifada and contained the most extreme anti-Semitic statements against Jews, Israelis and Zionists. The terminology used against the Jews in the leaflets is a mixture of Western anti-Semitic and Islamic rhetoric. Some of the anti-Semitic expressions appearing repeatedly in the leaflets are: "The brothers of the apes, the killers of the Prophets, blood suckers, warmongers," "barbaric," "cowards," "cancer expanding in the land of Isra' [reference to Palestine which was the destination of Muhammad's night journeyl and Mi'raj [Muhammad's ascent to heaven] threatening the entire Islamic world," "a conceited and arrogant people," "the enemy of God and mankind," "the descendants of treachery and deceit,", Nazis," "spreading corruption in the land of Islam," "the Zionist culprits who poisoned the water in the past, killed infants, women and elders," "thieves, monopolists, usurers." Verses from the Qur'an and the hadith (the traditions associated with Muhammad passed down by his companions) were used often to reinforce the negative image of the Jews, and terminology with Islamic connotations was dominant. The leaflets usually began with the religious invocation: "In the name of Allah, the Merciful, the Compa.ssionate." Almost every leaflet contained a Qur'anic verse either as a heading or as a conclusion, emphasizing a certain feature inherent to the Jews, is instigating war. For example: "Oh believers! take not the Jews or the Christians as friends." "So make war on them: By your hand will God chastise them, and will put them to shame, and will give you victory over them, and will heal the bosoms of a people who believe." and What is most important to understand here is that "to die for the sake of God" is, above all, not to die at all. By dying in the "divinely commanded" act of killing Jews (Jews, not Israelis), the Hamas terrorist actually seeks to conquer death (which he fears with special terror) by living forever. In this eternal life, Hamas videotapes reveal, there will be rivers of honey and 72 brides for each hero "martyred" fighting the enemies of God. Hence, the "love of death" described by the Hamas nonstate enemy of Israel is the ironic consequent of an all-consuming wish to avoid death. Since the death that this enemy "loves" is merely temporary and temporal, leading in "fact" to a permanent reprieve from death, accepting it as a tactical expedient is an easy matter. If, however, the death of the individual Muslim body in holy war against the Jew were not expected to ensure authentic life ever-after, its immense attractions would surely be reversed. - Louis Rene Beres Professor of International Law Department of Political Science Purdue University And from http://hnn.us/blogs/comments/14387.html 2. Ibrahim Mudayris, Head of the Association for Memorizing the Koran "The Prophet said: the Resurrection will not take place until the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims kill them. The Muslims will kill the Jews, rejoice [in it], rejoice in Allah’s victory. The Muslims will kill the Jews, and he will hide... "The Prophet said: the Jews will hide behind the rock and tree, and the rock and tree will say: oh servant of Allah, oh Muslim this is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!" [PA TV, September 10, 2004 - view this clip here] "The Jews will not live under our rule agreeably permanently, since they have been treacherous in nature throughout history. A day will come when all shall rest from the Jews... "Listen to your Beloved [Muhammad], who tells you about the most dire end awaiting the Jews. The tree and the stone want the Muslim to bring every Jew to his end. You all know the Hadith." [PA TV, May 13, 2005 - view this clip here] _____________________
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Aaron Levy
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01-26-2006 06:39
And from http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/ratzlavkatz200403231007.asp
Yassin was considered Irsrael's bin Laden, routinely calling the Palestinian terrorism shots. Another Hamas leader, English-speaking media favorite Abdel Aziz Rantisi, declared to the thousands of Gazan Arabs who poured into the streets when the death of Yassin became known: "War is henceforth open with these murderers, these criminals and these terrorists." Of course, that's not really news. Hamas unambiguously declared war on the Jews through its covenant, published in 1988: "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (Preamble). How? "There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by Jihad" (Article 13). However, as the covenant makes clear, it is not just Israel that is a problem for Hamas: "Israel, Judaism and Jews challenge Islam and the Muslim people. 'May the cowards never sleep'" (Article 2  .The Hamas Covenant also quotes a tradition recorded in an authoritative Islamic text: "The Day of Judgment will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Muslim, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him'" (Article 7). Rantisi said similar things just last year, after he himself survived an Israeli targeted strike: "By G-d we will not leave one Jew alive in Palestine" (Al-Jazeera satellite television, June 10, 2003). Using loudspeakers at the gatherings in Gaza this week, Hamas rabble-rousers chanted: "Sheikh Ahmad Yassin rest in peace. They will never enjoy rest. We will send death to every house, every city, every street in Israel!" _____________________
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Aaron Levy
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01-26-2006 06:40
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Taco Rubio
also quite creepy
Join date: 15 Feb 2004
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01-26-2006 06:56
Thanks a lot. While the quotes you sent me were actually from a biased source, and were further skewed by selective quoting of the text, the actual covenant it references is a very interesting read, and I'm learning a lot.
So why do you think Hamas got so many votes? _____________________
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Anya Dmytryk
i <3 woxy!
Join date: 13 Jul 2005
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01-26-2006 07:13
here's what makes me say WTF...the bush administration continuously says they want to bring democracy to the middle east, starting with iraq. BBC news reported last night that the bush adminstration says they will refuse to have any relations with hamas. hmmmm, we want democracy, but only on our terms. WTF indeed.
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stevie Richard
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01-26-2006 07:45
This has been going on for years more closer to (especially) my home
the IRA have/had various terrorist wings about, and have bombed my home town at various times (i have been caught in a few scares, 2 bombs that were disarmed and seen one such device go off - luckly the car was up the street and noone was near it at thet time) do i beleive that a group that blows up people of any description should be involved in politics? Yes But to understand that you have to see various sides of each story - normally the 'terrorist' cell started their campains because they were ignored by there goverment or/and local economy and buisness's - fathers for justice, fox hunting groups, oaps againt poll tax and various animal rights groups are non lethal at the moment but can start doing other acts to get more noticed - althou i severly doubt these groups would result in bombings - they have already taken over govt buildings (fathers for justice's 'superheroes' stunts), started fights and almost caused rioting (fox hunting groups and animal rights) even kidnapped a deceased grandmother of a company owner (animal rights) (i am not including religeous and racial groups for various reasons) If these groups were recognised and listened to - if they were involved in their cominity and countrys runnings and given a voice that would be heard - insted of passed on and ignored - the acts probably would not have risen to these levels and/or further - fathers for justices group has been disbanded by its founder after it was found that there was a 'terrorist' cell forming within the group - planning to kidnap the prime ministers children! Are fathers for justice being allowed to voice their veiws and points? no, Will there be a spin off group that will carry out futher stunts and may form terrorist cell? most likely. Every country that wants to call itself a democracy has to give equal rights to vote, voice opinions and get involved in their goverment - may it be incarcerated prisoners or terrorist cells - if you do not like the ideas from such groups - vote against it - that is your right - if you cant be arsed to get out off bed to vote against these ideas and they get through - its your own fault - dont blame a system of majority rules would you rather them continue the acts of terror than talk? (religious groups wernt included in the list i mentioned for various reasons - althou this thread is basd on a religeous group) |
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Lecktor Hannibal
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01-26-2006 11:29
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Chance Abattoir
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01-26-2006 11:43
Oh, yeah I get it... blowing the same horn with no change in tone whatsoever... Bush got elected for the sole purpose of blowing up children and innocent people. Right. Got it. I guess in your case it was put the best you got against him and still lose the election to get him out. Now, back to the Middle East -- what do you do when a terrorist organization, who opening, not even behind doors, says they are going to kill every single Jew in the world, what do you do when they get into power? Hmmm... One did a while back and what happened? Aaron is right on this. Comparing the Bush administration to Hamas is a bit hyperbolic. The former came to power to ultimately kill babies as a result of war (however ill-conceived), but the latter intends to kill innocent people. _____________________
"The mob requires regular doses of scandal, paranoia and dilemma to alleviate the boredom of a meaningless existence."
-Insane Ramblings, Anton LaVey |
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Blueman Steele
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01-26-2006 11:50
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/01/26/palestinian.election/index.html So what's the move when people who believe in blowing children up start getting elected? That was in 2000 I believe. |
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Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
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01-26-2006 11:53
From the Jakarta Post, online edition:
MMI welcomes Hamas victory in Palestinian vote JAKARTA (AFP): A hardline Indonesian Muslim group on Thursday hailed the victory of the radical Islamist movement Hamas in the Palestinian parliamentary election. "This is phenomenal," said Fauzan Al Anshori, the spokesman for the Indonesian Mujahiddin Council (MMI), an umbrella organization for groups seeking to impose Islamic law in Indonesia. "Palestinian democracy is being tested. We will see whether the United States and Israel accept the political reality or they will try to sabotage Hamas's victory like the Americans did in Algeria," Anshori said. The Algerian military, fearing an Iranian-style revolution, scrapped legislative polls which the Islamic Salvation Front (FIS) party was poised to win in 1992, sparking an Islamic uprising which left around 150,000 people dead. Many Muslims believe that the army crackdown was backed by the United States. Palestinian officials in the ruling Fatah faction have conceded they have lost Wednesday's parliamentary election, the first in a decade. Anshori said he did not believe that Hamas would abandon its armed resistance against Israel. "Hamas's constitution clearly states that its goal is to rid Palestine of Israel as an illegal entity," Anshori told AFP. The Mujahiddin Council was headed by radical cleric Abu Bakar Ba'asyir before he was imprisoned for his role in the October 2002 Bali bombings. Western governments say Ba'asyir was the spiritual leader of the Jemaah Islamiyah extremist group, which is blamed for a series of deadly attacks in Indonesia in recent years. Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim country, is a staunch supporter of the Palestinian struggle for nationhood and has no diplomatic relations with Israel. (***) _____________________
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Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
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01-26-2006 11:57
From the Jerusalem Post:
Analysis: Is there room for optimism? By EHUD WALDOKS Analysts were divided Thursday as to what Hamas's seeming victory in the Palestinian Legislative Council elections portends for Israel. Hamas officials were claiming Thursday morning that they had won the majority of seats in the PLC. Ambassador Dore Gold, president of The Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs, drew a direct connection between Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood movement. "Hamas is not just another Palestinian party. It is the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood, which is still illegal in Egypt. In the Arab world, the Muslim Brotherhood is viewed as the main precursor for all radical Islamist groups, including Al Qaeda. "Everyone knows that Osama bin Laden's mentor, Sheik Abdel Azzam, came out of the Jordanian Muslim Brotherhood and that Ayman al Zawahiri (Bin Ladin's second in command) once belonged to the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood. Therefore, Israel has to understand that the Hamas victory could lead to the emergence of a terrorist entity right next to its main cities," he told The Jerusalem Post Thursday. Gold strongly urged Israel to seal off the West Bank to prevent Al Qaeda from linking up with Hamas. "First and foremost, Israel must isolate the West Bank and not repeat the episode of the Philadelphi corridor through which Al Qaeda entered the Gaza Strip. It is absolutely imperative for Israel to retain defensible borders in the Jordan valley so that the forces of Abu Musab al Zarqawi [head of Al Qaeda in Iraq] in the east don't link up with Hamas in the west." Gold, who has written a book about the rise of Al Qaeda in Saudi Arabia pointed to a letter sent by Zawahiri to Zarqawi in the summer of 2005 imploring him to transfer the jihad in Iraq to neighboring secular states, namely Jordan and Syria, and then plan the clash with Israel. "We've already seen evidence of Al Qaeda in Jordan with the attacks in Amman and Aqaba," he added. However, Gideon Greenstein, founder and president of The Re'ut Institute claimed the situation could have been worse. "This is bad news but it could have been worse news. The bad news is a very clear Hamas victory. The worse news would have been a small victory for Fatah. A small victory would have meant that Hamas would be calling the shots but they would have the immunity granted by Abu Mazen [PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas]'s special status. "Abu Mazen was untouchable from the perspective of the international community and would have provided political cover for Hamas. With this victory, Hamas is exposed at all levels - they have a majority at the grassroots, municipal, and parliamentary levels," he told The Post. He also stressed that the situation provided a huge opportunity for Israel if it acted quickly to rally the international community to use all of its leverage on Hamas. "This crisis is a big opportunity for Israel to create a situation where direct pressure will be applied on the Hamas leadership to revisit its ideology and its association with terrorism immediately upon entry into power. "They are as confused as we are and the international community is. The question is, who will collect itself first? If Israel is the first to collect itself, it could rally the international community and catch Hamas unprepared. Nothing has prepared Hamas for this victory and we should remember that in the next few days." Prof. Gerald Steinberg, head of the Program on Conflict Management at Bar Ilan University predicted a Hamas victory would lead to greater instability and violence. "The outcome of the PA elections is likely to lead to greater internal instability and violence, as the various factions (Hamas, old Fatah, the younger Fatah, etc.) battle for control over resources and power. "The chances of a newly pragmatic Hamas are very low -- they are likely to follow the path of Hizbullah and the Taliban, meaning continued extremist Islamic ideology, rejectionism, and terrorism. If the EU, the US and the World Bank continue funding the PA in the hope that this will change, Palestinians will see this as a great achievement. "For Israel, the outcome means that it is necessary to prepare for greater chaos and anarchy, with very little chance of political compromise, even on limited issues, and a rethinking of the details of further unilateral disengagement." _____________________
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