"I Never Heard the Word 'Bomb'"
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Mulch Ennui
15 Minutes are Over
Join date: 22 May 2005
Posts: 2,607
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12-08-2005 20:51
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1138965,00.htmlFrom: someone
"I don't think they needed to use deadly force with the guy," says John McAlhany, a 44-year-old construction worker from Sebastian, Fla. "He was getting off the plane." McAlhany also maintains that Alpizar never mentioned having a bomb.
"I never heard the word 'bomb' on the plane," McAlhany told TIME in a telephone interview. "I never heard the word bomb until the FBI asked me did you hear the word bomb. That is ridiculous." Even the authorities didn't come out and say bomb, McAlhany says. "They asked, 'Did you hear anything about the b-word?'" he says. "That's what they called it."
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McAlhany described Alpizar as carrying a big backpack and wearing a fanny pack in front. He says it would have been impossible for Alpizar to lie flat on the floor of the plane, as marshals ordered him to do, with the fanny pack on. "You can't get on the ground with a fanny pack," he says. "You have to move it to the side."
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"I was on the phone with my brother. Somebody came down the aisle and put a shotgun to the back of my head and said put your hands on the seat in front of you. I got my cell phone karate chopped out of my hand. Then I realized it was an official."
In the ensuing events, many of the passengers began crying in fear, he recalls. "They were pointing the guns directly at us instead of pointing them to the ground," he says "One little girl was crying. There was a lady crying all the way to the hotel."
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I have of late--but wherefore I know not--lost all my mirth, that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours. http://forums.secondcitizen.com/
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Mulch Ennui
15 Minutes are Over
Join date: 22 May 2005
Posts: 2,607
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12-09-2005 12:28
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I have of late--but wherefore I know not--lost all my mirth, that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours. http://forums.secondcitizen.com/
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Kazuo Murakami
Sofa King
Join date: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 359
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12-09-2005 12:45
Yeah, I remember reading in some article what these guys jobs were before bu**sh** attempted to up his approval rating by massivlely increasing the number of air marshalls. One of them was a border patrol guy, the rest had similar jobs which in no way whatsoever qualified them to be dealing with situations as potentially complex as an air marshall is bound to enounter.
Edit:
Hmm, looking that over, it seems that in my finals week(s) no-sleep stupor, I didn't really get across what I was trying to say. Basically it seems to be the result of putting people who were already in jobs which cater to people who get off on 'power' in a position they are grossly unqualified for. The "cell phone karate chopped out of my hand" thing is a good example, completely pointless, but it made X former beat cop/desk jockey/whatever feel cool and important. Puff up some guys egos, put them in a position of authority, give them guns and an excuse...
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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12-09-2005 13:00
I think it is very easy now to play arm-chair quarterback. There are witnesses who heard him say he had a bomb. You had a man refusing to get down on the ground, reaching into a bag while running toward a terminal. They had no other choice -their safety and the safety of everyone in the terminal was at risk. They 100% did the right thing. It is a tragic situation, no doubt, but it was handled exactly as it should have been.
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Rose Karuna
Lizard Doctor
Join date: 5 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,772
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12-09-2005 13:14
Unfortunately, a bomb can be activated remotely using a cell phone, so it's my guess that's the reason that the passenger with the cell phone was treated in the manner that he was. Frankly, it was kind of stupid for him to have been on his cell phone in that situation. What was his brother going to do, call the cops?
Could the Air Marshalls have handled it better - the only thing I think they could have done better is not to have lied after wards and say that they thought the guy said he had a bomb. Other than that, every thing else, unfortunately, they did right down to the book.
They did not need the lie to justify the shoot. Even if he did not have a bomb, he was acting like he did. I'm sorry that he was mentally ill. I'm sorry that we live in a world where terrorists have used airliners as bombs, but the bottom line is that they have and the air marshalls were doing their job.
I'm not a fan at all of the patriots act or excessive tactics, but in this case, I don't think the action of the marshalls was excessive. I just wish they had not screwed it up with the lie about the bomb. It is the lies that errode the public trust the most.
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Kazuo Murakami
Sofa King
Join date: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 359
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12-09-2005 13:30
From: someone
McAlhany described Alpizar as carrying a big backpack and wearing a fanny pack in front. He says it would have been impossible for Alpizar to lie flat on the floor of the plane, as marshals ordered him to do, with the fanny pack on. "You can't get on the ground with a fanny pack," he says. "You have to move it to the side."
They told him to lie flat on the floor. He was wearing his backpack in the front. They shot him when he "appeared to reach for his pack." Yeah, nothing wrong here. |
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Dianne Mechanique
Back from the Dead
Join date: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,648
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12-09-2005 13:45
From: Rose Karuna ...They did not need the lie to justify the shoot. Even if he did not have a bomb, he was acting like he did. I'm sorry that he was mentally ill. I'm sorry that we live in a world where terrorists have used airliners as bombs, but the bottom line is that they have and the air marshalls were doing their job..... I dont think this is right. People are definately playing "armchair quarterback" as has been said, but we need to realise that the air marshalls and the authorities are doing the same thing. How was he "acting like he had a bomb"?? That statement seems silly to me. I went out with a girl who was bi-polar (manic depressive) once and while she coudl "act crazy" and got really mad over nothing, it aint the same thing as being mentally ill at all. This was a wacky guy who was scared, and a couple of idiots with itchy trigger fingers and not enough training went over the top and killed him when they should not have. It is also interesting that no one has apologised yet, least of all the killers. Marching everyone off the plane with theier hands over their heads was way too much also. That is just ridiculous and would not happen anywhere but the US of A. |
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
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12-09-2005 13:48
We should be allowed to carry weapons on airplanes to protect ourselves from air marshals.
~Ulrika~
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Rose Karuna
Lizard Doctor
Join date: 5 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,772
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12-09-2005 13:52
You stop dead - put your hands out where they are visible to the marshalls, get down on your knees and allow the marshalls to remove the back pack and fanny pack.
If he was not running and his hands were visible and not near the back or fanny pack I doubt that he would have been fired on.
I'm not saying it was not a sad situation, it was. I'm just saying that except for lying about what the guy said, the marshalls did what was expected of them and did not use excessive force.
Had the guy stopped running, put his hands in the air and then they still shot him, it would have been a different story, but that's not what happened.
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I Do Whatever My Rice Krispies Tell Me To
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Rose Karuna
Lizard Doctor
Join date: 5 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,772
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12-09-2005 13:56
From: Dianne Mechanique I dont think this is right.
People are definately playing "armchair quarterback" as has been said, but we need to realise that the air marshalls and the authorities are doing the same thing. How was he "acting like he had a bomb"?? That statement seems silly to me.
I went out with a girl who was bi-polar (manic depressive) once and while she coudl "act crazy" and got really mad over nothing, it aint the same thing as being mentally ill at all. This was a wacky guy who was scared, and a couple of idiots with itchy trigger fingers and not enough training went over the top and killed him when they should not have. It is also interesting that no one has apologised yet, least of all the killers.
Marching everyone off the plane with theier hands over their heads was way too much also.
That is just ridiculous and would not happen anywhere but the US of A. Seems to me that the guy in the UK was shot eight times wasn't he?
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I Do Whatever My Rice Krispies Tell Me To
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Chance Abattoir
Future Rockin' Resmod
Join date: 3 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,898
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12-09-2005 15:09
From: Rose Karuna Seems to me that the guy in the UK was shot eight times wasn't he? pwned.
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Chance Abattoir
Future Rockin' Resmod
Join date: 3 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,898
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12-09-2005 15:09
From: Ulrika Zugzwang We should be allowed to carry weapons on airplanes to protect ourselves from air marshals.
~Ulrika~ We should be allowed to carry arms to protect ourselves from hijackers too.
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"The mob requires regular doses of scandal, paranoia and dilemma to alleviate the boredom of a meaningless existence."
-Insane Ramblings, Anton LaVey
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Kazuo Murakami
Sofa King
Join date: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 359
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12-09-2005 19:44
From: Chance Abattoir We should be allowed to carry arms to protect ourselves from hijackers too. I seriously hope this was sarcasm. |