Second Life Forums Archive - why the "one video per parcel" limit?

paulie Femto

Into the dark

Join date: 13 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,098

10-29-2005 15:48

Why the "one video per parcel" limit?

I can launch multiple Quicktime videos at a time on my desktop (with QT PRO) or watch multiple QT videos at a time in seperate browser windows.

As I understand QT streaming, it's all URL to client. The video is streamed from its URL directly to an SL client, without using LL bandwidth except to set up and tear down the connection. Every "agent" who is watching a video is using their own bandwidth to do it. So, it's not a question of LL bandwidth. Am I wrong on that? Does the LL server have to track the stream?

Is it an attempt to preserve user bandwidth? Are we afraid that users will swamp their connection and lose synch with LL server?

It's (probably) not useful to allow users to stream more than one video at a time, but offering multiple streams from the same land could be useful in movie theaters with multiple screens or in the welcome area for showing "help" videos on different billboards.

_____________________

REUTERS on SL: "Thirty-five thousand people wearing their psyches on the outside and all the attendant unfettered freakishness that brings."

Wired Milk

Registered User

Join date: 5 Aug 2004

Posts: 9

More video questions and no answeres

11-16-2005 23:43

Is it possible to stream video to SL using a service such as ORB or any sort of tuner card maybe. I really don't want to invest in an Apple Computer to use quicktime broadcaster. But if worse comes to worse i will. So can anyone shed some light on broadcasting your own stream?

TXGorilla Falcone

KWKAT Planetfurry DJ

Join date: 4 May 2004

Posts: 176

11-17-2005 13:06

While it may be possable ask your self would it be practable?
I mean do we need more than one video media on the same parcle?
Many at this moment people are haveing problems with SL without dealing with 1 video media .

I do know where your comeing from on this question and agree to a point but at present time till problems are to a minimum adding this may need to hold off.

Also my idea of attaching audio media to the avatar along with land.
How ever much I would like this I know it can wait.

_____________________

Drunken Monkeys danceing on the tables.
Falling from the sky just like in a fable.

Trimming Hedges

Registered User

Join date: 20 Dec 2003

Posts: 34

11-18-2005 10:18

Paulie, streaming more than one video at a time would load down most systems fairly badly. QT decoding burns some CPU, and then it has to stream the texture into the video memory, which would burn quite a bit of bandwidth. On PCI Express, that wouldn't be any big deal, but even AGP8X might struggle with more than two or three streams.

It'd be pretty unusual to need to see more than one video stream at the exact same time. If you want to support multiple streams, remember you can subdivide your land, and have different streams on different parcels.

Kelly Linden

Linden Developer

Join date: 29 Mar 2004

Posts: 896

11-18-2005 11:04

Streaming to a texture used in a 3d world has a bit more overhead than a normal QT window. Bandwith on the viewerside is also a concern the more streams being played. You are correct that the streams do not pass through our servers.

From: someone

It's (probably) not useful to allow users to stream more than one video at a time, but offering multiple streams from the same land could be useful in movie theaters with multiple screens or in the welcome area for showing "help" videos on different billboards.

These are both possible, assuming the 'only stream one video to each person at a time' via llParcelMediaCommandList or in the case of the movie theatre by subdividing the plot.

_____________________

- Kelly Linden

SuezanneC Baskerville

Forums Rock!

Join date: 22 Dec 2003

Posts: 14,229

11-18-2005 11:25

If we could see multiple streams on multiple prims on one parcel, then we could use the QT player's ability to display text in different fonts and sizes for advertisements, scoreboards, and a variety of other uses. Possibly the relatively static nature of text displays would make the bandwidth and overhead issue unimportant compared to the benefit.

_____________________

-

So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them.

I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to

http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne

-

http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03.

Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard,
Robin, and Ryan

-

paulie Femto

Into the dark

Join date: 13 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,098

It's easily done, MILK

11-18-2005 12:43

MILK. Grab a free copy of DARWIN Streaming Server, from APPLE. It will let you offer playlists or single files as a stream. It runs on Win32 or Linux.

If you want to broadcast live streams, grab a free copy of MPEGABLE BROADCASTER, from DICAS. It converts live video (or saved files) into an MP4 stream that DARWIN can broadcast.

If you want to stream SL back into SL, use SOFTCAM, free from Luminositi. It takes output from a window on you desktop and streams it as if the output came from a webcam.

Be prepared for many crashes and glitches, unfortunately. These software prgrams arent super stable and neither is SL's Quicktime implementation.

Oh yeah. Some tips that will save you time:

If SOFTCAM shows a PREVIEW window, turn that window off. MPERGABLE BROADCASTER cant get input from SOFTCAM if SOFTCAM is sending input to it's PREVIW window.

The ONLY resolution that seems to work between SOFTCAM and MPEGABLE BROADCASTER is 320x240. if you try and use any other resolution, MPEGABLE cant get input from SOFTCAM.

DARWIN will stream just about any type of video as a single file, but it is VERY picky about what types of files you try and put in it's playlist. The ONLY app ive found that can make files suitable for DARWIN'S playlist is QUICKTIME PRO ($29 from APPLE).

DARWIN streams need to be accessed with a specific URL, using the correct protocol and port, like this: rtsp://domain_name_of_darwin_server:554/name-of-file-or-stream.

You may have to open your firewall to allow RTSP requests in. Like this:

# ACCEPT RTSP to DARWIN Server
$IPTABLES -t nat -A PREROUTING --dst 68.14.211.43 -p tcp --dport 554 -j ACCEPT
$IPTABLES -t nat -A PREROUTING --dst 68.14.211.43 -p udp --dport 554 -j ACCEPT

$IPTABLES -t nat -A PREROUTING --dst 68.14.211.43 -p tcp --dport 7070 -j ACCEPT
$IPTABLES -t nat -A PREROUTING --dst 68.14.211.43 -p udp --dport 7070 -j ACCEPT

$IPTABLES -t nat -A PREROUTING --dst 68.14.211.43 -p udp --dport 6970:6999 -j ACCEPT

#DARWIN admin port
$IPTABLES -t nat -A PREROUTING --dst 68.14.211.43 -p tcp --dport 1220 -j ACCEPT

Good luck and Godspeed!

_____________________

REUTERS on SL: "Thirty-five thousand people wearing their psyches on the outside and all the attendant unfettered freakishness that brings."

Samantha Misfit

Registered User

Join date: 5 Jun 2006

Posts: 3

08-06-2006 12:59

Well as far as wanting a movie theater with different screens there is away around this is to have the owner of the land break up the parcel. have each movie room a different parcel but all in the same land group thats what i did with my club to prevent my streams from being heard all over so the only ones that hear it are the ones that want to hear it.

Argent Stonecutter

Emergency Mustelid

Join date: 20 Sep 2005

Posts: 20,263

08-06-2006 15:54

From: SuezanneC Baskerville

If we could see multiple streams on multiple prims on one parcel, then we could use the QT player's ability to display text in different fonts and sizes for advertisements, scoreboards, and a variety of other uses.

Not if you care whether people see it.

The only time I turn video (or for that matter audio) streaming on is when someone tells me there's something worth seeing or listening to on the parcel. Not only is it annoying to have stuff suddently start blasting, my computer takes a hit from the stream (that's probably less of a problem since I upgraded, but I know a lot of people with video cards that are doing well to break 5 FPS these days), and the controls are annoyingly placed and can't be moved.

All this means I don't even get any notification from SL when there's a stream on the parcel. I've made a "radio waves" particle emitter (shamelessly cribbed from the Old Time Radio show on Furnation) to let people like me know there's a stream on my own land... but for things like ads, no, I wouldn't turn it on for that. Would you?

Also, I'm getting a bad feeling about this comment.

It reminds me of the people who wanted to use "HTML on a prim" for the same purpose.

LL really needs an llApplyText(integer face, string text, integer font, vector color, vector offset_and_scale) call that would simply get the client to bake a local texture combining the text and the original texture on the face. That would do the job with the least impact on the client, the least impact on bandwidth, and the best versatility and user experience. Using texture downloads, HTML, or video streams to just put text on a prim face is horribly horribly inefficient.

why the "one video per parcel" limit?
paulie Femto Into the dark Join date: 13 Sep 2003 Posts: 1,098	10-29-2005 15:48 Why the "one video per parcel" limit? I can launch multiple Quicktime videos at a time on my desktop (with QT PRO) or watch multiple QT videos at a time in seperate browser windows. As I understand QT streaming, it's all URL to client. The video is streamed from its URL directly to an SL client, without using LL bandwidth except to set up and tear down the connection. Every "agent" who is watching a video is using their own bandwidth to do it. So, it's not a question of LL bandwidth. Am I wrong on that? Does the LL server have to track the stream? Is it an attempt to preserve user bandwidth? Are we afraid that users will swamp their connection and lose synch with LL server? It's (probably) not useful to allow users to stream more than one video at a time, but offering multiple streams from the same land could be useful in movie theaters with multiple screens or in the welcome area for showing "help" videos on different billboards. _____________________ REUTERS on SL: "Thirty-five thousand people wearing their psyches on the outside and all the attendant unfettered freakishness that brings."
Wired Milk Registered User Join date: 5 Aug 2004 Posts: 9	More video questions and no answeres 11-16-2005 23:43 Is it possible to stream video to SL using a service such as ORB or any sort of tuner card maybe. I really don't want to invest in an Apple Computer to use quicktime broadcaster. But if worse comes to worse i will. So can anyone shed some light on broadcasting your own stream?
TXGorilla Falcone KWKAT Planetfurry DJ Join date: 4 May 2004 Posts: 176	11-17-2005 13:06 While it may be possable ask your self would it be practable? I mean do we need more than one video media on the same parcle? Many at this moment people are haveing problems with SL without dealing with 1 video media . I do know where your comeing from on this question and agree to a point but at present time till problems are to a minimum adding this may need to hold off. Also my idea of attaching audio media to the avatar along with land. How ever much I would like this I know it can wait. _____________________ Drunken Monkeys danceing on the tables. Falling from the sky just like in a fable.
Trimming Hedges Registered User Join date: 20 Dec 2003 Posts: 34	11-18-2005 10:18 Paulie, streaming more than one video at a time would load down most systems fairly badly. QT decoding burns some CPU, and then it has to stream the texture into the video memory, which would burn quite a bit of bandwidth. On PCI Express, that wouldn't be any big deal, but even AGP8X might struggle with more than two or three streams. It'd be pretty unusual to need to see more than one video stream at the exact same time. If you want to support multiple streams, remember you can subdivide your land, and have different streams on different parcels.
Kelly Linden Linden Developer Join date: 29 Mar 2004 Posts: 896	11-18-2005 11:04 Streaming to a texture used in a 3d world has a bit more overhead than a normal QT window. Bandwith on the viewerside is also a concern the more streams being played. You are correct that the streams do not pass through our servers. From: someone It's (probably) not useful to allow users to stream more than one video at a time, but offering multiple streams from the same land could be useful in movie theaters with multiple screens or in the welcome area for showing "help" videos on different billboards. These are both possible, assuming the 'only stream one video to each person at a time' via llParcelMediaCommandList or in the case of the movie theatre by subdividing the plot. _____________________ - Kelly Linden
SuezanneC Baskerville Forums Rock! Join date: 22 Dec 2003 Posts: 14,229	11-18-2005 11:25 If we could see multiple streams on multiple prims on one parcel, then we could use the QT player's ability to display text in different fonts and sizes for advertisements, scoreboards, and a variety of other uses. Possibly the relatively static nature of text displays would make the bandwidth and overhead issue unimportant compared to the benefit. _____________________ - So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan -
paulie Femto Into the dark Join date: 13 Sep 2003 Posts: 1,098	It's easily done, MILK 11-18-2005 12:43 MILK. Grab a free copy of DARWIN Streaming Server, from APPLE. It will let you offer playlists or single files as a stream. It runs on Win32 or Linux. If you want to broadcast live streams, grab a free copy of MPEGABLE BROADCASTER, from DICAS. It converts live video (or saved files) into an MP4 stream that DARWIN can broadcast. If you want to stream SL back into SL, use SOFTCAM, free from Luminositi. It takes output from a window on you desktop and streams it as if the output came from a webcam. Be prepared for many crashes and glitches, unfortunately. These software prgrams arent super stable and neither is SL's Quicktime implementation. Oh yeah. Some tips that will save you time: If SOFTCAM shows a PREVIEW window, turn that window off. MPERGABLE BROADCASTER cant get input from SOFTCAM if SOFTCAM is sending input to it's PREVIW window. The ONLY resolution that seems to work between SOFTCAM and MPEGABLE BROADCASTER is 320x240. if you try and use any other resolution, MPEGABLE cant get input from SOFTCAM. DARWIN will stream just about any type of video as a single file, but it is VERY picky about what types of files you try and put in it's playlist. The ONLY app ive found that can make files suitable for DARWIN'S playlist is QUICKTIME PRO ($29 from APPLE). DARWIN streams need to be accessed with a specific URL, using the correct protocol and port, like this: rtsp://domain_name_of_darwin_server:554/name-of-file-or-stream. You may have to open your firewall to allow RTSP requests in. Like this: # ACCEPT RTSP to DARWIN Server $IPTABLES -t nat -A PREROUTING --dst 68.14.211.43 -p tcp --dport 554 -j ACCEPT $IPTABLES -t nat -A PREROUTING --dst 68.14.211.43 -p udp --dport 554 -j ACCEPT $IPTABLES -t nat -A PREROUTING --dst 68.14.211.43 -p tcp --dport 7070 -j ACCEPT $IPTABLES -t nat -A PREROUTING --dst 68.14.211.43 -p udp --dport 7070 -j ACCEPT $IPTABLES -t nat -A PREROUTING --dst 68.14.211.43 -p udp --dport 6970:6999 -j ACCEPT #DARWIN admin port $IPTABLES -t nat -A PREROUTING --dst 68.14.211.43 -p tcp --dport 1220 -j ACCEPT Good luck and Godspeed! _____________________ REUTERS on SL: "Thirty-five thousand people wearing their psyches on the outside and all the attendant unfettered freakishness that brings."
Samantha Misfit Registered User Join date: 5 Jun 2006 Posts: 3	08-06-2006 12:59 Well as far as wanting a movie theater with different screens there is away around this is to have the owner of the land break up the parcel. have each movie room a different parcel but all in the same land group thats what i did with my club to prevent my streams from being heard all over so the only ones that hear it are the ones that want to hear it.
Argent Stonecutter Emergency Mustelid Join date: 20 Sep 2005 Posts: 20,263	08-06-2006 15:54 From: SuezanneC Baskerville If we could see multiple streams on multiple prims on one parcel, then we could use the QT player's ability to display text in different fonts and sizes for advertisements, scoreboards, and a variety of other uses. Not if you care whether people see it. The only time I turn video (or for that matter audio) streaming on is when someone tells me there's something worth seeing or listening to on the parcel. Not only is it annoying to have stuff suddently start blasting, my computer takes a hit from the stream (that's probably less of a problem since I upgraded, but I know a lot of people with video cards that are doing well to break 5 FPS these days), and the controls are annoyingly placed and can't be moved. All this means I don't even get any notification from SL when there's a stream on the parcel. I've made a "radio waves" particle emitter (shamelessly cribbed from the Old Time Radio show on Furnation) to let people like me know there's a stream on my own land... but for things like ads, no, I wouldn't turn it on for that. Would you? Also, I'm getting a bad feeling about this comment. It reminds me of the people who wanted to use "HTML on a prim" for the same purpose. LL really needs an llApplyText(integer face, string text, integer font, vector color, vector offset_and_scale) call that would simply get the client to bake a local texture combining the text and the original texture on the face. That would do the job with the least impact on the client, the least impact on bandwidth, and the best versatility and user experience. Using texture downloads, HTML, or video streams to just put text on a prim face is horribly horribly inefficient.

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why the "one video per parcel" limit?