Second Life Forums Archive - Script upload speed. Why...

Azelda Garcia

Join date: 3 Nov 2003

Posts: 819

11-27-2004 04:46

... Why does it take about 2-3 seconds for me to ftp a script to the DreamHost server, but between 20 and 40 seconds to upload a script to SecondLife?

Now, yes, I do have network latency from Hell, but... if it works for ftp I really dont see why it should take so long for SL?

FWIW, for the FTP time, the vast majority of those 2-3 seconds is spent in circuit setup and teardown: the time is more or less independent of actual script length.

Azelda

blaze Spinnaker

1/2 Serious

Join date: 12 Aug 2004

Posts: 5,898

11-27-2004 05:06

20 to 40 seconds? That's a little odd..

I only see that when the asset server is busted. General it's 2-3 seconds.

_____________________

Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."

Azelda Garcia

Join date: 3 Nov 2003

Posts: 819

11-27-2004 05:12

It's not odd that my upload time is higher than yours, because I'm in China.

However, it is very odd that my script upload rate for SL is an order of magnitude slower for SL compared to ftp.

Its also extremely frustrating.

Azelda

Eggy Lippmann

Wiktator

Join date: 1 May 2003

Posts: 7,939

11-27-2004 05:58

Are you FTPing while you have SL open?
'Cause SL eats a helluva lot of bandwidth... so the comparison may not be accurate.
Are you merely saving, or saving AND compiling?
Is this reproducible? Or did it just happen a few times today?

_____________________

Help us document Second Life history at http://slhistory.org!

Azelda Garcia

Join date: 3 Nov 2003

Posts: 819

11-27-2004 06:03

> Are you FTPing while you have SL open?

Yes. Also, bear in mind SL is mainly downstream.

> Are you merely saving, or saving AND compiling?

Both. However, compilation time is negligible (~0.5 seconds). You can verify compilation time by saving a script within an object.

> Is this reproducible?

Oh yes.

Azelda

blaze Spinnaker

1/2 Serious

Join date: 12 Aug 2004

Posts: 5,898

11-28-2004 01:12

Fascinating problem. But, given that your circumstances are pretty unique..

_____________________

Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."

Chuck Beckett

Registered User

Join date: 9 Aug 2004

Posts: 84

Slow Script Saving Quite Common

12-01-2004 09:27

I also frequently have delays of 20 to 30 seconds or even longer saving scripts, it's pretty much eliminated scripting as a thing to do for fun in SL.

Ace Cassidy

Resident Bohemian

Join date: 5 Apr 2004

Posts: 1,228

12-01-2004 10:45

FTP is a very light-weight protocol specifically architected for file transfers.

When you're "Saving" a script from withing your SL client, there's a helluva lot more network activity going on, in addition to differences in protocols.

- Ace

_____________________

"Free your mind, and your ass will follow" - George Clinton

Azelda Garcia

Join date: 3 Nov 2003

Posts: 819

12-01-2004 12:58

In both cases you're uploading code. The only difference is that in SL it is being uploaded in compressed format (ie bytecode cf sourcecode), so it should be faster. That it is slower is really odd, since the ftp times are given for an upload whilst SL is open and running normally.

Azelda

_____________________

Ace Cassidy

Resident Bohemian

Join date: 5 Apr 2004

Posts: 1,228

12-01-2004 13:27

From: Azelda Garcia

In both cases you're uploading code. The only difference is that in SL it is being uploaded in compressed format (ie bytecode cf sourcecode), so it should be faster. That it is slower is really odd, since the ftp times are given for an upload whilst SL is open and running normally.

Azelda

Actually, there are quite a lot of differences. However, not being privvy to the internal handshaking that is going on between sim and client, I can't comment on how SL moves the bytes from your machine to their server.

Any file transfer or data movement is a whole lot more than just shoving the bytes into the pipe. Both ends have to exchange messages to figure out what is being sent where and by whom and in what format, etc. With FTP, there is a protocol that has been specifically optimized for doing file transfers. What is going on under the hood with respect to SL, I don't know, but I would imagine that it has not been optimized for file transfer.

- Ace

_____________________

"Free your mind, and your ass will follow" - George Clinton

blaze Spinnaker

1/2 Serious

Join date: 12 Aug 2004

Posts: 5,898

12-01-2004 15:47

Maybe try using ethereal to learn more. http://www.ethereal.com/

Maybe they're doing something obvious and silly and pointing it out will get it fixed faster. (or maybe not. The only thing I can think of..)

_____________________

Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."

Azelda Garcia

Join date: 3 Nov 2003

Posts: 819

12-01-2004 23:46

> Maybe they're doing something obvious and silly and pointing it out will get it fixed faster. (or maybe not. The only thing I can think of..)

I'm currently betting on their using UDP to transfer the file, and that if a single packet is dropped the whole file is being resent.

Azelda

_____________________

blaze Spinnaker

1/2 Serious

Join date: 12 Aug 2004

Posts: 5,898

12-02-2004 06:14

That would be most unfortunate

_____________________

Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."

Kyrah Abattoir

cruelty delight

Join date: 4 Jun 2004

Posts: 2,786

12-03-2004 02:36

since all connections to second life are done with udp yes it is probably an issue ^_^

Script upload speed. Why...
Azelda Garcia Azelda Garcia Join date: 3 Nov 2003 Posts: 819	11-27-2004 04:46 ... Why does it take about 2-3 seconds for me to ftp a script to the DreamHost server, but between 20 and 40 seconds to upload a script to SecondLife? Now, yes, I do have network latency from Hell, but... if it works for ftp I really dont see why it should take so long for SL? FWIW, for the FTP time, the vast majority of those 2-3 seconds is spent in circuit setup and teardown: the time is more or less independent of actual script length. Azelda
blaze Spinnaker 1/2 Serious Join date: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 5,898	11-27-2004 05:06 20 to 40 seconds? That's a little odd.. I only see that when the asset server is busted. General it's 2-3 seconds. _____________________ Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : "User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Azelda Garcia Azelda Garcia Join date: 3 Nov 2003 Posts: 819	11-27-2004 05:12 It's not odd that my upload time is higher than yours, because I'm in China. However, it is very odd that my script upload rate for SL is an order of magnitude slower for SL compared to ftp. Its also extremely frustrating. Azelda
Eggy Lippmann Wiktator Join date: 1 May 2003 Posts: 7,939	11-27-2004 05:58 Are you FTPing while you have SL open? 'Cause SL eats a helluva lot of bandwidth... so the comparison may not be accurate. Are you merely saving, or saving AND compiling? Is this reproducible? Or did it just happen a few times today? _____________________ Help us document Second Life history at http://slhistory.org!
Azelda Garcia Azelda Garcia Join date: 3 Nov 2003 Posts: 819	11-27-2004 06:03 > Are you FTPing while you have SL open? Yes. Also, bear in mind SL is mainly downstream. > Are you merely saving, or saving AND compiling? Both. However, compilation time is negligible (~0.5 seconds). You can verify compilation time by saving a script within an object. > Is this reproducible? Oh yes. Azelda
blaze Spinnaker 1/2 Serious Join date: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 5,898	11-28-2004 01:12 Fascinating problem. But, given that your circumstances are pretty unique.. _____________________ Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : "User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Chuck Beckett Registered User Join date: 9 Aug 2004 Posts: 84	Slow Script Saving Quite Common 12-01-2004 09:27 I also frequently have delays of 20 to 30 seconds or even longer saving scripts, it's pretty much eliminated scripting as a thing to do for fun in SL.
Ace Cassidy Resident Bohemian Join date: 5 Apr 2004 Posts: 1,228	12-01-2004 10:45 FTP is a very light-weight protocol specifically architected for file transfers. When you're "Saving" a script from withing your SL client, there's a helluva lot more network activity going on, in addition to differences in protocols. - Ace _____________________ "Free your mind, and your ass will follow" - George Clinton
Azelda Garcia Azelda Garcia Join date: 3 Nov 2003 Posts: 819	12-01-2004 12:58 In both cases you're uploading code. The only difference is that in SL it is being uploaded in compressed format (ie bytecode cf sourcecode), so it should be faster. That it is slower is really odd, since the ftp times are given for an upload whilst SL is open and running normally. Azelda _____________________
Ace Cassidy Resident Bohemian Join date: 5 Apr 2004 Posts: 1,228	12-01-2004 13:27 From: Azelda Garcia In both cases you're uploading code. The only difference is that in SL it is being uploaded in compressed format (ie bytecode cf sourcecode), so it should be faster. That it is slower is really odd, since the ftp times are given for an upload whilst SL is open and running normally. Azelda Actually, there are quite a lot of differences. However, not being privvy to the internal handshaking that is going on between sim and client, I can't comment on how SL moves the bytes from your machine to their server. Any file transfer or data movement is a whole lot more than just shoving the bytes into the pipe. Both ends have to exchange messages to figure out what is being sent where and by whom and in what format, etc. With FTP, there is a protocol that has been specifically optimized for doing file transfers. What is going on under the hood with respect to SL, I don't know, but I would imagine that it has not been optimized for file transfer. - Ace _____________________ "Free your mind, and your ass will follow" - George Clinton
blaze Spinnaker 1/2 Serious Join date: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 5,898	12-01-2004 15:47 Maybe try using ethereal to learn more. http://www.ethereal.com/ Maybe they're doing something obvious and silly and pointing it out will get it fixed faster. (or maybe not. The only thing I can think of..) _____________________ Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : "User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Azelda Garcia Azelda Garcia Join date: 3 Nov 2003 Posts: 819	12-01-2004 23:46 > Maybe they're doing something obvious and silly and pointing it out will get it fixed faster. (or maybe not. The only thing I can think of..) I'm currently betting on their using UDP to transfer the file, and that if a single packet is dropped the whole file is being resent. Azelda _____________________
blaze Spinnaker 1/2 Serious Join date: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 5,898	12-02-2004 06:14 That would be most unfortunate _____________________ Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : "User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Kyrah Abattoir cruelty delight Join date: 4 Jun 2004 Posts: 2,786	12-03-2004 02:36 since all connections to second life are done with udp yes it is probably an issue ^_^

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Script upload speed. Why...