I have a technical problem...

I haven't made any money at all today, but yet, I don't think the Lindens are going to have any technical problems at all when it comes to charging me for my tier.

And technically I think thats ridiculous. Due to the actions of criminals my entire days revenue has been shot out the window...not only that but my sim traffic has suffered and the work of weeks and weeks and months of building how has been set back by a huge amount forcing me to have to REDO the work I've already done to build my sim and my business up.

A days profits I can live without, but several days profits? A fall off in foot traffic? A lack of interest from primary community members to even log in because the Lindens can't protect the grid from maladjusted jackasses EVERY DAMN WEEKEND?

Someone needs to pull their heads out at Linden Labs, period. If I wanted to GAMBLE for money I'd drive down the street to the casino here in REAL LIFE.

I am a content creator, Second Life is my business platform, and Linden Labs is ALLOWING the interruption of my livelyhood by ALLOWING unlimited free access to this platform.

Free accounts should NOT BE ABLE TO BUILD or RES UNATTACHED ITEMS ANYWHERE BUT IN THE LINDEN CONTROLLED SANDBOX.

There is NO REASON for every single freebie account in world to be able to build wherever they want and have access to every single function of the game.

Freebie accounts should only be able to build in Linden controlled sandbox areas. Sandboxes full? Tough titties....cough up some payment information and buy a piece of land like the rest of us.

If the Lindens want to keep unlimited, unverified accounts coming into the game...thats fine...but they need to remove the THREAT FACTOR that these types of accounts have to the security of not only the GRID but to the well being and livelyhoods of the people that have been crazy enough to INVEST THEMSELVES in providing content for what otherwise would be a rather dull and boring place.

Cause at this rate, one of these days its not going to be a grey goo attack..its going be massive database hack that drains all the Linden out of everyones accounts and destroys it.

And OOOO what then Phillip? How are you going to justify THAT?

Do something and do something now. Cause I'm tired of watching this platform get brought to a dead stop EVERY DAMN WEEKEND to pad subscription numbers.

I agree. I am tired of paying so they can remain anonymous and do as they please. Unverifieds should only be able to "preview" SL and not have any power to affect the PAYING community.

So people who can't afford a credit card, or r otherwise incapable of gettin a credit card r not allowed to have sum fun with a free online game? U wanna take away the fun for thousands, if not milions just so u alone can have fun? How selfish........

Hi its called PAYPAL.

Investigate it as an option.

All it requires is a bank account.

And who says you can't have fun in SL without being to build wherever you want?

I'm not saying "don't let em in" I'm saying "Hey lets not hand all these unknown people guns and dynamite at the door".

There is a huge and distinct difference between the two stances.

I'm fine with unverified accounts, unverified accounts by and large become verified ones in time....hell thats how I started course when I started I at LEAST had to provide some kind of payment information. Paypal was an option at the time so I used that. Now I've got my VISA debit card on my account.

The difference between letting them "have a little fun" and "letting them blow up the grid and screw up everyone elses day" is a pretty huge one.

I don't think I'm being selfish at all, in fact I think I'm being MORE than fair.

Turn off build functions for unverified accounts everywhere except in Linden controlled sandbox sims? How is that unfair? What gives an unverified account the right to show up on say...my land..and rez 200+ prims worth of jet aircraft on it anyways? How is keeping that from happening taking away from their fun?

SIGNED...........................

CELL PHONES were allowed at the time CC was allowed as well- thats how i initially joined up, it was easy and simple, and ihad no problem giving my cell #.

Some are complaining they do not have credit cards or wouldnt have joined if it were required (i honestly wouldnt have joined either but the cell phone option was fine and easy for me)...ll needs SOMETHING to trace these hackers with.



My partner and i currently own 2 sims and earlier today there was a self replicating object on the sim spewing out some weird things but the objects could not be created as our land did not allow the creation of objects- i knew what it was. and we could not delete the thing, the weird thing was it was iming my g/f messages of "can not create object on parcel, parcel owner does not allow it" as if it were HER who was trying to rez objects. i looked up the owners name and dun dun dunnnnnn they had deleted their account. Of course, its not all gone from the system (This is how we are able to pay a fee and get a once deleted account back up)

I IMd a linden about the object and he acted as if it was not a big deal. Hours later the grid was taken down.


Im glad this thing was not able to manifest on our sims. But this has destroyed others. Scripts were also disabled causing some who sell by vendors to lose sales.


I dont know what, but SOMETHING needs to be done. I have only been a member for almost a year, but in my earlier days when a cell or cc was required, i do not remember this much grief. And im not saying i believe all griefers are little kids who do not HAVE access to a cc, but with this information of every account, there is atleast something to trace if the account does destroy the grid


Ps- Im not sure if every attacker is an "unverified account" infact im sure there MUST have been attacks when one HAD to be verified. I have had sales from numerious 'unverified' accounts....... but geeze I have ran into countless ppl who are obvious teenagers who have nothing better to do than cause harrassment, and i guess ever since ANYONE was allowed onto the grid things have been worse. And i must ask- whats the purpose of a teen grid when they can just register on the main? not to mention all the content theft from main grid being sold in teen.

For those who agree with the removal of "NO PAYMENT INFO" accounts...

feel free to vote on this...that way the Lindens know that we, in the paying community mean business...

http://secondlife.com/vote/vote.php?get_id=2101

Yeah, how selfish of paying users to subsidise the "fun" of those who don't pay a cent!

Seriously though: I don't have a problem with non-paying users, and I realize that the payment verification system was always full of holes, but at least it put a lid on the creation of multiple accounts. It was hardly impossible to create them, but it beats the situation we have now where it often feels like llRezObject() has an evil twin called llRezAccount().

("Verified" does not equal "paying customer". My payment info had to be verified before I could even use Second Life. I didn't have to pay a cent though...even though I went premium within hours.)

I'm totally with Suzanna on this.

The unvarified sign-ups are the biggest security hole in SL. They need to be closed for the very survival of the system.

Also, I was trying to test my very first animation tonight in an AO. The first in what will hopefully be a long line of them that will be a basis of a successful business. But I wasn't able to, because scripts were disabled. Frustrating, to say the least.

I was able to show the animation to several friends through the "Play In World" option. And it turns out that my simple animation is something every one of my friends wants to buy. Which means that this one little animation will likely garner absolutely huge business.

This animation may just change my whole financial experience in Second Life. And I am eager to get it deployed for sale. but I can't do it because of the utter wastes of flesh that did that grid attack. This is a case where my business is at a total stand-still. It's insanely frustrating.

Here is the thing...In the begining it wasn't always open and free...it wasn't until recently several months ago that they opened the doors...

And its not that people are being selfish, its that they are getting very tired of the grid going down because idiots with alternate free accounts have nothing better to do with their pathetic lives but to take the grid down every time you turn around.......because ha ha its so much fun to write malicious scripts and be retarded ...

I have no patients for people who do this and if it wasn't for the free accounts they wouldn't have a way to easily exploit the system....But I too don't believe going back to credit card only accounts is the answer...

The answer lies in making the system more secure by putting in place a mechnisim to prevent these low life scum from doing this....and one way to do this is

*** LIDEN LISTEN UP !!! HERE IS MY IDEA ***

Put in a option when people sign up, which will present the signee to check a box saying they want to be a content creater / scripter, then with that said lead them to a special screen that they have to fill out some additional info ....and then either manually (perferabbly, because if its not automated then it will detour the idiots) or automated send a verfication email to activate the content creator account...then once verified scripting becomes available to said user...and plus gives them a token / id that they must place in each script for the script to work...

And if said user fails to be verified then the LSL window would not be available to said user...and if they fail to put their token / id in the script the script would simply not run..
*****..


The above said would prevent these low lifes from doing what they have been doing which is costing LL money and making the legit SL community angry...especially the ones actually making money...

Well some of those cheap leeches only take money and then leave. These useless people are doing now a days is this.......Using a paypal or real CC..Then signingup for installments then for a full account when the 30 days are up they cancel the accont and then signup again with the same CC for another 30 days ago pick the trees to death .etc etc etc this goes on and on......They got it down to a art form Why do you think LLabs reduced the 500l a week to 400l.......Well its part of the reason. These are the abusive ways the open signup has caused to unreal scales. All they are here for is money given devices, ex.Money trees, money chairs and dance pads, etc....They have no real purpose to play on sl but the sole purpose to take money out of the game. There must me a better way to bring up the populas without have the same people signup new account over and over again.........

I agree with this as well. On top of the outright sociopaths that are taking down the grid EVERY DAMN WEEK IF NOT TWICE A WEEK....we also have to deal with people that are simply farming money OUT of SL without really ever providing anything to it.

This money they're taking out of the economy isn't going back into it except via the Lindex, the people farming trees and dance pads and camping chairs as a business are simply draining the economy of money ment to help stimulate the economy and doing so for personal gain.

The opening up of the game to anyone that could type some bullshit personal information and a hotmail address into the membership information fields has done a vast amount of HARM to the system in so many ways its not funny.

It has massive potential security issues, as have been demonstrated time and time again, week in and week out since June 6th. Every week theres a grid attack, and not only that the goddamn membership database was violated through a security hole in the Wiki.

It has huge potential economic benefits but also has massive economic exploitation possibilities through the uses of camping/dwell/tree harvesting, funneling THOUSANDS of dollars out of the economy en masse that has never really been used for ANYTHING in the economy. Money changing hands on the Lindex is not overly indicative of a healthy economic situation....a healthy economic situation is one of which Linden in game exchanges hands several times IN THE GAME WORLD before making its way to the Lindex again. These farmers (And believe me theres a warehouse of chinese people...right now, all waiting to log back into Second Life so they can get back to work) aren't doing that, they're cutting out all the middleman economic transfers that foster and encourage economic strength for a currency and simply converting what is usually first run money (I.E. Stipends) to USD and sucking it right out of the market. This doesn't just hurt the Second Life economy this hurts Linden Labs as well because they're literally handing thousands of dollars to people who haven't even provided payment information for their accounts (I'd be willing to bet farmer accounts funnel more or less all their earnings to ONE primary account that is verified and then that money gets converted out en masse).

And finally, and most importantly, the opening of the flood gates has literally WRECKED the Second Life hardware infrastructure and completely and totally back burnered ANY real improvments to the system because every patch now is focused on trying to correct bugs from the last one and close up security holes that the exploiters are abusing.

I mean for gods sake, the asset server can't take it, the amount of problems with inventory alone in the last two months is staggering, to top it off the server infrastructure is totally overtaxed, theres no room for putting resources into sims that need/deserve it, everythings literally dancing on the razors edge of total and complete failure at all times.

Gee what happened to those neat avatar improvements that were promised huh? What happend to modernizing and making the shader system more efficient and giving the game better performance? Whats happened to ANYTHING REAL as far as TRUE IMPROVEMENTS TO THE PLATFORM since June?

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING...thats what. The last thing that happened to this game that was worth ANYTHING update/patch wise was 1.10.0, everything after that has been nothing but alot of big talk for very little improvement in the situation in world. Performance gets worse and worse, resource server problems get worse and worse, individual sim performance is degrading rapidly everywhere with people in the CIG chat complaining DAILY of massive time dilation issues and sim crashes.

But no....we gotta let everyone that can stand up, hear thunder, and see lightning into SL...for NOTHING.

I personally feel this has been the most detrimental thing to ever be done to this platform. Period. And if it HADN'T been done at the level its been implemented, SL would be a stronger and better product than it is now.

I mean look at the state of things, I've been calling customer support for 3 weeks now THREE WEEKS trying to talk to someone about an infuriating rendering bug that I can't resolve...has no info in the knowledge base, has no info in the blog, no one answered me about it in the forums, and Live Help never answers the question when I ask it.

Called them for three weeks running and have never been able to get through and even DIRECTLY emailed a few Lindens in support and I have NEVER ONCE BEEN called back or emailed back on the issue. And these are the people I used to be able to talk to almost immediately 3 months ago. These are people who DID call back, who DID answer emails...but now...its just like...hrrm...I dunno, SOE Customer Support maybe? AOL/Time Warner Customer support? And why? Because they are absolutely overextended, under attack and have set themselves up for failure through an ill thought out decision to open the grid to the entire world for nothing more than a few minutes of typing false info into membership fields.

Seems to me every resource the Lindens have is stretched to the absolute limit and anything even CLOSE to forward progress with the platform has come to a screeching halt spending months of time now recovering from bug ridden patch after bug ridden patch and scrambling around like blind mice trying to close security holes they were so sure weren't there in the first place.

You tell me how much "better" off we are for letting people "have their fun".

Cause personally I think we're up shit creek without a paddle.

problem is LLabs resoures have been pulled to their limits............There is not need for me to talk abouthte helper groups. Everyone knows the current condition of them is.....The game attacks have been nothing but a sad remeber of how low secondlife has become.I sure hope one days we all can say..."those days are behind us" but for 4+ month now its been nothing but a Oct 31st nightmare. I lost mnay friends leaving the game.But those that continue to cause problems are still allowed to be here.....sad sad sad.....when are these dark ages going to end.........

Hmm what could it be.........

I`ll buy it if its taking a leak with a stream of pee

I must say, I disagree with your proposition on free accounts not being able to build/res, many free accounts rent land, and what use is renting if you cant rez your stuff?

Basically, if that were to happen then people who rent out property would lose out, then we'd hear complaints from them

How about having the free accounts unable to trade money in any form when its not in a verified status?

Personally I think it should be up to the land owner to decide if an unverified can rez objects on their land. Particularly if the land owner and land land in question is a private island.

Our choice our risk.

So what is the fuzz all about?

SL's front page will state that we have ONE MILLION residents!

Who care about the rest?

935,000 ALTS rest are baked accounts

I wonder if these attacks might be from some of these people who are complaining so loudly for the removal of free accounts. This makes sense because these people have the motive and requisite anger to abuse free accounts, and stand to gain from the attacks in the form of getting what they want.

Were it not for a free account without payment info I would never have tried SL. As an IT professional I was a bit tentative to give out my credit card info for a service I really knew nothing about. The reason I signed up was for the ability to script and create content, and to this point I have spent approximately 90% of my time in SL building and scripting.

A grey goo attack such as the one I witnessed yesterday only requires 1 one person to start, and that person would not need much knowledge of programming to initiate it, and it shouldn't be incredibly difficult to prevent this sort of attack WITHOUT removing free accounts, or severely crippling building/scripting etc.

Severe reactionary FUD such as witnessed here is completely unnecessary, and I suspect the Lindens realised the benefits/risks of free accounts when they decided to instate them. The important thing to realize is the people who have the knowledge and motivation for these attacks are people who have spent a decent amount of time in SL to start with, and have decided for whatever reason to create a free alternate account to grief. Therefore people shouting complaints are prime suspects.

Please...feel free to spontaneously run off at the mouth all you want.

Its only funny because you're dead wrong, but you're terribly convinced that you're right.

I'm not against free accounts. I'm against them being able to be used in the fashion whoever is doing this is doing it.

It would take an incredibly stupid individual to invest their lives and their work into SL and then somehow think they were arch villianously clever enough to NOT get caught and lose it all for perpetrating attacks such as these.

As any smart person that might be operating on the other side of the "law" will tell you, you don't shit where you live.

And thusly if your Oliver Stone style conspiracy theory would be correct, you'd have to be dealing with 1) An incredibly dumb person, or 2) an incredibly egotistical person.

The simple facts are, people like me have too much invested in this to be taking risks like this with our accounts, our businesses and our livelyhoods.

So while your addition to the thread is entertaining, its not exactly well thought out. This isn't World of Warcraft, I don't lose my little digital uber warrior of pwnage if I mess up and get banned.

I lose my business.

I lose my income.

I lose all my products.

I lose my 25k a day traffic roleplay sim that took me months to build.

And I can't get any of that back.

And you somehow think I'd be dumb enough to jeopardize all that in some, twisted scheme to attempt to get rid of free accounts?

Try a reading comprehension course sir. Because I've specifically stated that I have no problem with free accounts, I'm just not comfortable with them having full acccess to the scripting/building system right out of the gate.

The FUD sir is genuine, Linden Labs has made a severe mistake and we're all paying for it now. Plain and simple. Grid down all day and most of the night and ooo look...more attacks after we finally get back on this morning, meaning more possible downtime, more lost revenue, more declining sim traffic.

I agree Suzanna, the free accounts need to be revamped to included verifying it, or close em off perminantly. Ive been in SL over 2 yrs now, in all that time Ive never seen such a disregard for other players than Ive seen nowdays.. A few bad apples can ruin the whole season if not controlled.. LL is in it for the money and not for us, I know im ranting and raving bout things.. I signed up within 2 days of me being on the trial, I enjoyed being here and still do, but the constant grid attacks by jerks with nothing else better to do, have made it a headache.. People arent happy anymore, losing money and builds to a bunch of kids with highpowered toys, possibly bought by mom and dad.. They dont care bout other people except themselves and getting a big rise at our expenses... Either limit the building tools for new accts or eliminate the free accounts, cuz we all know that number on the SL site is mostly all alts with no real contribution to SL...

I am not a "sir".

I would suggest the same to you. I didn't suggest that you were behind these attacks, just that they required knowledge gained from time in SL and motivation gained from time in SL.

As to disabling scripting and building for free accounts, an account that cannot build or script would not be a very good preview. Were I unable to script, to decide if LSL is worth my choosing to invest in a paying account, I would never choose to pay.

The problem of grey goo is a programmatic one, the solution should also be programmatic.

Removing the ability of free accounts to create, or the removal of free accounts all together because of the actions of a few people who had bad experiences in SL(griefers) is a bit overkill. If you have fewer new residents you will also have less business, free accounts lead to more premium accounts, otherwise they would not have them in the first place. Free accounts that are unable to create are pointless as SL is about Creativity.

This entire post is IMHO, your flames are completely unnecessary.

Nothing so vulgar.

It's something that it seems that most animation designers in SL seem to have utterly overlooked. Somethinng simple.

I tell you what, harrassing others seems to be your reason to post in this thread. Not the otehr ways around.......

Its not only a few Freebie acounts doing it its much more then that.
Its seems the ones that want to keep open signup are the ones themselves that abuse the freebie account concept.

And No free accopunts DOES NOT Lead TO MORE PREMIUM ACCOUNT ( Unless you call hold this paying account for 1 mouth then dumping it part of your stats ).
Have you seen the percentage of the account Holding land? less then 7% are paying tier cost.........
"Free accounts that are unable to create are pointless as SL is about Creativity." Well these people are creating Goo all over sl at times is is a way to create but not in the sence to put money in the eco and helping it grow......


Please don`t come in here and flamesome someone based on small narrow gaps of facts......
Suzanna Soyinka is a content provider which does a fine job like most of creators helpingthe game grow content. Unless you have or will be of the same level, and or you know something we dont( I doubt it) stick around and see for yourself how thegame works.