Second Life Forums Archive - WARNING: Packet from invalid circuit 69.25.105.224:12035

SuezanneC Baskerville

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01-02-2006 08:56

Would anyone be able to offer any info on what the following warning message from the secondlife.log file means?

WARNING: Packet from invalid circuit 69.25.105.224:12035

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Introvert Petunia

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Posts: 2,065

01-02-2006 09:11

This probably means that sim792 (whichever that is at the moment) tried to send you a packet when your client wasn't expecting it.

The 69.25.105.224 is the IP address of sim792.agni.lindenlab.com, and the "12035" is the UDP port that SL usually transmits game data to your client on. The reference to "circuit" is the quasi-reliable simulated data "circuit" that SL uses for things like texture transmissions that take more than one packet to send. This simulated circuit is how SL puts together UDP "postcards" into something more akin to a continuous telephone call (thus "circuit"

.

You often will see a warning like this when you have left sim792 but sim792 hasn't fully realized it yet and so tries to send you a texture or something and your client knows that it shouldn't have seen it. You might call it "lag of sim recognizing I'm not there any more". If this message isn't preceeded by a sim switch (which is also logged) then it may mean that sim792 was really confused, but I've not seen that.

SuezanneC Baskerville

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Join date: 22 Dec 2003

Posts: 14,229

01-02-2006 09:28

Sigh, I get a lot of those. I am motivated to post these things because the game is pretty much unplayable. It's just too slow. Here's another sequence that doesn't look too good.
2006-01-02T16:52:18Z INFO: packet_out_of_order - got packet 5557 expecting 5385 from 66.150.245.33:12035
2006-01-02T16:52:18Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 72 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:18Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 73 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:18Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 74 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:18Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 71 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:19Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 75 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:19Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 76 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:19Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 77 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:19Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 78 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:19Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 80 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:20Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 81 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:20Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 82 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:20Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 83 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:20Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 79 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:20Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 84 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:20Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 85 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:20Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 86 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:20Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 87 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:21Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 88 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:21Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 89 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:21Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 90 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:21Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 91 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:21Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 92 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:22Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 93 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:22Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 94 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:22Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 95 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:22Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 96 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:22Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 97 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:22Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 98 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:23Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 99 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:23Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 100 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:23Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 101 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:23Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 102 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:24Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 103 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:24Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 104 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:24Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 105 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:24Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 106 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:25Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 107 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:25Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 108 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:25Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 109 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:25Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 110 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:26Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 111 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:26Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 112 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:26Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 113 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:26Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 114 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:27Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 115 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:27Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 116 expecting 69
2006-01-02T16:52:27Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 117 expecting 69

One might be expecting 69 but while waiting for it one needs to deal properly with other matters.

_____________________

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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them.

I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to

http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne

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http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03.

Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard,
Robin, and Ryan

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Introvert Petunia

over 2 billion posts

Join date: 11 Sep 2004

Posts: 2,065

01-02-2006 09:49

You could try hotlining it, but I think they are aware of it but expect that the developers think that HTML-on-a-prim is way more fun to work on than what is likely the primary cause of GreyLife®.

Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 12:46:48 -0500
From: [me]
To: [email]karen@secondlife.com[/email]
Subject: severe reliable protocol errors likely responsible for texture and other game "lag"

This is addressed to Karen Linden, the development manager, please forward if I guessed the wrong e-mail address.

Karen,

There have been a number of threads in Technical Issues on foums.secondlife.com which point to what appear to be defects in the "reliable" protocol over UDP that could be responsible for both bad client-side performance and server-side lag resulting from multiple retransmissions. As I have seen postings from you that indicate that you are interested in and responsible for ensuring that the scalability and performance I wanted to bring these to your attention. Searching for posts by "Introvert Petunia" in Technical Issues will yield a handful of diagnostic analyses that I and others have made.

Regards,
[me]

One can try.

Nathan Stewart

Registered User

Join date: 2 Feb 2005

Posts: 1,039

01-02-2006 10:30

Im not sure at all whats going on with packet loss, im getting alot of resent packets, but if i use winmtr on the sim at the same time as i see high packet loss in sl i dont see any bad results, infact i have perfect results in winmtr with 0% loss

CODE


|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                                      WinMTR statistics                                   |
|                       Host              -   %  | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
|                     www.routerlogin.com -    0 |  201 |  201 |    0 |    1 |   32 |    0 |
|            lo0-plusnet.pte-ag1.plus.net -    0 |  201 |  201 |   15 |   26 |  343 |   16 |
|            ge0-0-0-403.pte-gw2.plus.net -    0 |  200 |  200 |   15 |   19 |   62 |   32 |
|                          195.50.117.169 -    0 |  200 |  200 |   15 |   18 |   47 |   16 |
|         ae-0-54.bbr2.London1.Level3.net -    0 |  200 |  200 |   15 |   20 |   78 |   15 |
|     as-0-0.mp2.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net -    0 |  200 |  200 |  156 |  166 |  437 |  172 |
|  ge-6-0-0.gar1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net -    0 |  200 |  200 |  156 |  165 |  265 |  156 |
|                             4.78.242.18 -    0 |  200 |  200 |  156 |  161 |  188 |  156 |
|    border1.ge1-1-bbnet1.sfo002.pnap.net -    0 |  200 |  200 |  156 |  165 |  328 |  172 |
|               sim477.agni.lindenlab.com -    0 |  200 |  200 |  156 |  162 |  203 |  172 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|

While sl reports

sim477.agni.lindenlab.com (69.25.104.163:13003)

CPU: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3500+ (2247 Mhz)
Memory: 1024 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
OpenGL Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
OpenGL Renderer: GeForce 6800 GT/AGP/SSE2/3DNOW!
OpenGL Version: 2.0.1
Packets Lost: 4824/247082 (2.0%)

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SuezanneC Baskerville

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01-02-2006 11:13

I am not getting packet loss according to SL while all the out of order packets and invalid circuit messages are occurring.

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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them.

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http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03.

Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard,
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Introvert Petunia

over 2 billion posts

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Posts: 2,065

01-02-2006 11:14

From: Nathan Stewart

Im not sure at all whats going on with packet loss...

WinMTR uses ICMP ECHO_REQUEST messages which are at a network protocol level below UDP. On a linux box (which the sims are) the ICMP message is handled by the kernel (OS) and is both small and simple. Contrariwise, the game packets need to be processed by the kernel which figures out which process needs to receive it and then passes it up where the sim-server code does its stuff. Thus, WinMTR can show no loss, while the sim-server process is dropping stuff because it is too busy.

Gabe Lippmann

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Join date: 14 Jun 2004

Posts: 4,219

01-02-2006 11:18

From: SuezanneC Baskerville

One might be expecting 69 but while waiting for it one needs to deal properly with other matters.

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go to Nocturnal Threads

Introvert Petunia

over 2 billion posts

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Posts: 2,065

01-02-2006 11:25

From: SuezanneC Baskerville

I am not getting packet loss according to SL while all the out of order packets and invalid circuit messages are occurring.

As UDP is an "unreliable un-sequenced packet protocol" each packet is essentially unrelated to every other. The analogy of a series of postcards is quite applicable - each packet can travel a different route from you to LL and some routes may be slower than others. So it is possible to have out-of-sequence reception of packets even though there is zero packet loss. However, the code that pastes all those postcards together into e.g. a texture needs them to be in the right order and, from what you are reporting, it eventually gets all the postcards but complains a bit much while waiting for that slow one.

Unfortunately, it is not clear from the log messages whether the postcards are ultimately pasted together or just thrown out. If they are being thrown out then the reassembler routine may not be properly reporting packet loss to the stats displays you see.

Phoenix Linden

SL's Angel of Death

Join date: 3 Dec 2002

Posts: 168

01-02-2006 14:22

Introvert's assessment is essentially correct. The various transfer systems we have will store and reassemble the packets as necessary. In the log sequence waiting for segment 69, it should be noticed within 10 seconds from the original transmission, retransmitted, and correctly reassembled by the client.

Admittedly, the logs for this are overly verbose and frequent.

SuezanneC Baskerville

Forums Rock!

Join date: 22 Dec 2003

Posts: 14,229

01-02-2006 14:35

From: Phoenix Linden

Introvert's assessment is essentially correct. The various transfer systems we have will store and reassemble the packets as necessary. In the log sequence waiting for segment 69, it should be noticed within 10 seconds from the original transmission, retransmitted, and correctly reassembled by the client.

Admittedly, the logs for this are overly verbose and frequent.

I don't show any packet loss according to SL, but the game is completely unusable, it's too slow and jerky to even fly around around in circles for fun. The many minutes spent waiting for each scene to first appear in gray and white and then more minutes spent waiting for part of the scent to display the correct textures is pretty unbearable also.

It might be that performance would be improved with less time spent writing messages to the log file, but the fact the the log file makes dull reading is not an issue.

It's the program's unusability that is the issue, the posting of log files is being done in hopes of helping to transform the program from what it is into one that works tolerably well.

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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them.

I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to

http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne

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http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03.

Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard,
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FaceAfkh Malaprop

Registered User

Join date: 3 Nov 2005

Posts: 5

01-04-2006 16:18

FWIW, I get a lot of errors and warnings like that (and similar lag and packet loss issues) if I use a wireless connection. If I plug in via wired ethernet, it mostly clears them up. Would you by any chance be using wireless?

Introvert Petunia

over 2 billion posts

Join date: 11 Sep 2004

Posts: 2,065

01-04-2006 16:25

From: FaceAfkh Malaprop

Would you by any chance be using wireless?

Thanks for the tip, but I'm totally wired (and seem to recall from prior posts so is SuzanneC). Yes, WiFi connections - especially ones that allow out of sequence frames (typically called HyperSpeed or something) - can worsen SL loss severely.

SuezanneC Baskerville

Forums Rock!

Join date: 22 Dec 2003

Posts: 14,229

How's the object rendering speed and texture loading speed doing since 1.8.1(6)?

01-11-2006 22:09

How's the object rendering speed and texture loading speed doing since 1.8.1(6)?

_____________________

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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them.

I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to

http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne

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http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03.

Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard,
Robin, and Ryan

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Introvert Petunia

over 2 billion posts

Join date: 11 Sep 2004

Posts: 2,065

01-12-2006 03:26

From: SuezanneC Baskerville

How's the object rendering speed and texture loading speed doing since 1.8.1(6)?

I've not noticed much of a difference.

WARNING: Packet from invalid circuit 69.25.105.224:12035
SuezanneC Baskerville Forums Rock! Join date: 22 Dec 2003 Posts: 14,229	01-02-2006 08:56 Would anyone be able to offer any info on what the following warning message from the secondlife.log file means? WARNING: Packet from invalid circuit 69.25.105.224:12035 _____________________ - So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan -
Introvert Petunia over 2 billion posts Join date: 11 Sep 2004 Posts: 2,065	01-02-2006 09:11 This probably means that sim792 (whichever that is at the moment) tried to send you a packet when your client wasn't expecting it. The 69.25.105.224 is the IP address of sim792.agni.lindenlab.com, and the "12035" is the UDP port that SL usually transmits game data to your client on. The reference to "circuit" is the quasi-reliable simulated data "circuit" that SL uses for things like texture transmissions that take more than one packet to send. This simulated circuit is how SL puts together UDP "postcards" into something more akin to a continuous telephone call (thus "circuit". You often will see a warning like this when you have left sim792 but sim792 hasn't fully realized it yet and so tries to send you a texture or something and your client knows that it shouldn't have seen it. You might call it "lag of sim recognizing I'm not there any more". If this message isn't preceeded by a sim switch (which is also logged) then it may mean that sim792 was really confused, but I've not seen that.
SuezanneC Baskerville Forums Rock! Join date: 22 Dec 2003 Posts: 14,229	01-02-2006 09:28 Sigh, I get a lot of those. I am motivated to post these things because the game is pretty much unplayable. It's just too slow. Here's another sequence that doesn't look too good. 2006-01-02T16:52:18Z INFO: packet_out_of_order - got packet 5557 expecting 5385 from 66.150.245.33:12035 2006-01-02T16:52:18Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 72 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:18Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 73 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:18Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 74 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:18Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 71 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:19Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 75 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:19Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 76 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:19Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 77 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:19Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 78 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:19Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 80 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:20Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 81 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:20Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 82 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:20Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 83 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:20Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 79 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:20Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 84 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:20Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 85 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:20Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 86 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:20Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 87 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:21Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 88 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:21Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 89 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:21Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 90 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:21Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 91 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:21Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 92 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:22Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 93 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:22Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 94 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:22Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 95 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:22Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 96 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:22Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 97 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:22Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 98 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:23Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 99 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:23Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 100 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:23Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 101 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:23Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 102 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:24Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 103 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:24Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 104 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:24Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 105 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:24Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 106 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:25Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 107 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:25Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 108 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:25Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 109 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:25Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 110 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:26Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 111 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:26Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 112 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:26Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 113 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:26Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 114 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:27Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 115 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:27Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 116 expecting 69 2006-01-02T16:52:27Z WARNING: Out of order packet in transfer 6f7273f8-11ef-691b-8cbd-ab845a2ed033, got 117 expecting 69 One might be expecting 69 but while waiting for it one needs to deal properly with other matters. _____________________ - So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan -
Introvert Petunia over 2 billion posts Join date: 11 Sep 2004 Posts: 2,065	01-02-2006 09:49 You could try hotlining it, but I think they are aware of it but expect that the developers think that HTML-on-a-prim is way more fun to work on than what is likely the primary cause of GreyLife®. Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 12:46:48 -0500 From: [me] To: [email]karen@secondlife.com[/email] Subject: severe reliable protocol errors likely responsible for texture and other game "lag" This is addressed to Karen Linden, the development manager, please forward if I guessed the wrong e-mail address. Karen, There have been a number of threads in Technical Issues on foums.secondlife.com which point to what appear to be defects in the "reliable" protocol over UDP that could be responsible for both bad client-side performance and server-side lag resulting from multiple retransmissions. As I have seen postings from you that indicate that you are interested in and responsible for ensuring that the scalability and performance I wanted to bring these to your attention. Searching for posts by "Introvert Petunia" in Technical Issues will yield a handful of diagnostic analyses that I and others have made. Regards, [me] One can try.
Nathan Stewart Registered User Join date: 2 Feb 2005 Posts: 1,039	01-02-2006 10:30 Im not sure at all whats going on with packet loss, im getting alot of resent packets, but if i use winmtr on the sim at the same time as i see high packet loss in sl i dont see any bad results, infact i have perfect results in winmtr with 0% loss CODE \|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\| \| WinMTR statistics \| \| Host - % \| Sent \| Recv \| Best \| Avrg \| Wrst \| Last \| \|------------------------------------------------\|------\|------\|------\|------\|------\|------\| \| www.routerlogin.com - 0 \| 201 \| 201 \| 0 \| 1 \| 32 \| 0 \| \| lo0-plusnet.pte-ag1.plus.net - 0 \| 201 \| 201 \| 15 \| 26 \| 343 \| 16 \| \| ge0-0-0-403.pte-gw2.plus.net - 0 \| 200 \| 200 \| 15 \| 19 \| 62 \| 32 \| \| 195.50.117.169 - 0 \| 200 \| 200 \| 15 \| 18 \| 47 \| 16 \| \| ae-0-54.bbr2.London1.Level3.net - 0 \| 200 \| 200 \| 15 \| 20 \| 78 \| 15 \| \| as-0-0.mp2.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net - 0 \| 200 \| 200 \| 156 \| 166 \| 437 \| 172 \| \| ge-6-0-0.gar1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net - 0 \| 200 \| 200 \| 156 \| 165 \| 265 \| 156 \| \| 4.78.242.18 - 0 \| 200 \| 200 \| 156 \| 161 \| 188 \| 156 \| \| border1.ge1-1-bbnet1.sfo002.pnap.net - 0 \| 200 \| 200 \| 156 \| 165 \| 328 \| 172 \| \| sim477.agni.lindenlab.com - 0 \| 200 \| 200 \| 156 \| 162 \| 203 \| 172 \| \|________________________________________________\|______\|______\|______\|______\|______\|______\| While sl reports sim477.agni.lindenlab.com (69.25.104.163:13003) CPU: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3500+ (2247 Mhz) Memory: 1024 MB OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600) OpenGL Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation OpenGL Renderer: GeForce 6800 GT/AGP/SSE2/3DNOW! OpenGL Version: 2.0.1 Packets Lost: 4824/247082 (2.0%) _____________________
SuezanneC Baskerville Forums Rock! Join date: 22 Dec 2003 Posts: 14,229	01-02-2006 11:13 I am not getting packet loss according to SL while all the out of order packets and invalid circuit messages are occurring. _____________________ - So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan -
Introvert Petunia over 2 billion posts Join date: 11 Sep 2004 Posts: 2,065	01-02-2006 11:14 From: Nathan Stewart Im not sure at all whats going on with packet loss... WinMTR uses ICMP ECHO_REQUEST messages which are at a network protocol level below UDP. On a linux box (which the sims are) the ICMP message is handled by the kernel (OS) and is both small and simple. Contrariwise, the game packets need to be processed by the kernel which figures out which process needs to receive it and then passes it up where the sim-server code does its stuff. Thus, WinMTR can show no loss, while the sim-server process is dropping stuff because it is too busy.
Gabe Lippmann "Phone's ringing, Dude." Join date: 14 Jun 2004 Posts: 4,219	01-02-2006 11:18 From: SuezanneC Baskerville One might be expecting 69 but while waiting for it one needs to deal properly with other matters. _____________________ go to Nocturnal Threads
Introvert Petunia over 2 billion posts Join date: 11 Sep 2004 Posts: 2,065	01-02-2006 11:25 From: SuezanneC Baskerville I am not getting packet loss according to SL while all the out of order packets and invalid circuit messages are occurring. As UDP is an "unreliable un-sequenced packet protocol" each packet is essentially unrelated to every other. The analogy of a series of postcards is quite applicable - each packet can travel a different route from you to LL and some routes may be slower than others. So it is possible to have out-of-sequence reception of packets even though there is zero packet loss. However, the code that pastes all those postcards together into e.g. a texture needs them to be in the right order and, from what you are reporting, it eventually gets all the postcards but complains a bit much while waiting for that slow one. Unfortunately, it is not clear from the log messages whether the postcards are ultimately pasted together or just thrown out. If they are being thrown out then the reassembler routine may not be properly reporting packet loss to the stats displays you see.
Phoenix Linden SL's Angel of Death Join date: 3 Dec 2002 Posts: 168	01-02-2006 14:22 Introvert's assessment is essentially correct. The various transfer systems we have will store and reassemble the packets as necessary. In the log sequence waiting for segment 69, it should be noticed within 10 seconds from the original transmission, retransmitted, and correctly reassembled by the client. Admittedly, the logs for this are overly verbose and frequent.
SuezanneC Baskerville Forums Rock! Join date: 22 Dec 2003 Posts: 14,229	01-02-2006 14:35 From: Phoenix Linden Introvert's assessment is essentially correct. The various transfer systems we have will store and reassemble the packets as necessary. In the log sequence waiting for segment 69, it should be noticed within 10 seconds from the original transmission, retransmitted, and correctly reassembled by the client. Admittedly, the logs for this are overly verbose and frequent. I don't show any packet loss according to SL, but the game is completely unusable, it's too slow and jerky to even fly around around in circles for fun. The many minutes spent waiting for each scene to first appear in gray and white and then more minutes spent waiting for part of the scent to display the correct textures is pretty unbearable also. It might be that performance would be improved with less time spent writing messages to the log file, but the fact the the log file makes dull reading is not an issue. It's the program's unusability that is the issue, the posting of log files is being done in hopes of helping to transform the program from what it is into one that works tolerably well. _____________________ - So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan -
FaceAfkh Malaprop Registered User Join date: 3 Nov 2005 Posts: 5	01-04-2006 16:18 FWIW, I get a lot of errors and warnings like that (and similar lag and packet loss issues) if I use a wireless connection. If I plug in via wired ethernet, it mostly clears them up. Would you by any chance be using wireless?
Introvert Petunia over 2 billion posts Join date: 11 Sep 2004 Posts: 2,065	01-04-2006 16:25 From: FaceAfkh Malaprop Would you by any chance be using wireless? Thanks for the tip, but I'm totally wired (and seem to recall from prior posts so is SuzanneC). Yes, WiFi connections - especially ones that allow out of sequence frames (typically called HyperSpeed or something) - can worsen SL loss severely.
SuezanneC Baskerville Forums Rock! Join date: 22 Dec 2003 Posts: 14,229	How's the object rendering speed and texture loading speed doing since 1.8.1(6)? 01-11-2006 22:09 How's the object rendering speed and texture loading speed doing since 1.8.1(6)? _____________________ - So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan -
Introvert Petunia over 2 billion posts Join date: 11 Sep 2004 Posts: 2,065	01-12-2006 03:26 From: SuezanneC Baskerville How's the object rendering speed and texture loading speed doing since 1.8.1(6)? I've not noticed much of a difference.

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WARNING: Packet from invalid circuit 69.25.105.224:12035