Skin Re-coloration?

My uploaded skins either turn out to dark or to light.

I'm using Adobe Photoshop CS on my Laptop. I've been using Johan Durants previewer to see my things before I upload but its not enough. The previewer doesn't have much in the way of lighting that mimics SL and I find myself rather frustrated and confused about how Second Life is playing with the color.

It could be that the lighting on my laptop is weird or the colors in photoshop are messed up but I highly doubt it since the laptop is VERY new (September).

Is there anyway I could resolve this coloring issue?
Please dont respond with "use the preview grid". I'm basically out of L$ on there already from testing i've done and I'm unable to find any other way of aquiring anymore L$. I'm not about to beg others either.

I can also be reached at echoirvine@ live.com [no space between @ and live].

I'm also interested if someone could kind of help me a long on MSN instead of taking up forum space or logging into SL (it kills my computer when I have photoshop and SL running. ~.~)

All well and dandy, commend you for not begging for money on the beta grid. However, if you go HERE you should find that you can sign up for another account (for free even!) and then proceed to log into the beta grid with that account and find another $5kL to play with. Wash, rinse, repeat as often as necessary (lord knows the greifer's do on the main grid!)



Nope, not gonna do it. Your question's answer can help some other new person's problem. That's what the forums were created for, therefore it's not "taking up forum space" to have the answer here. If you don't want to log back into the forums to get your answer, that's fine too. But the answer should be here for the next person to be able to learn.

A

Echo, if you can avoid it, steer clear of using laptop monitors for color previewing. They distort the colors horribly unless your viewing angle is within a very narrow range close to 90 degrees from the screen angle. Even then the color accuracy is questionable. Most desktop workstation flat panels or CRT displays will be far more accurate.

There is a very simple way of previewing your full size avatar textures on the main grid without any upload costs (L$0, 24/7, as long as the grid is up). Johan's SLCP app is an excellent tool in all other instances, but for 100% accurate color and texture representation the actual SL environment can't be beat.

The original post for this method has long ago been burried under years of cross references to necroposts embedded in hundreds of replies here and there within the forums, so I am going to start a new post on that specific topic and consolidate that information for easy reference.

Here's the link:

/109/9a/233734/1.html

Let me get this point out of the way before even touching anything else. To post a question in a public forum and then ask that people contact you privately to give you the answer is an abuse of the forum. When a question is answered publicly, it helps thousands of people at once. When it's answered privately, it helps you and only you. What you're asking for is so unfair.

It really turns my stomach when people expect that this kind of abuse is OK. It's not. Look, if you can come here to ask the question, you can come back to read the answer. It's that simple. If you want a private answer, ask a private person individually (preferably not me). If you ask on a public forum, expect a public answer.

Now that that's out of the way, onto the public answer...





The age of your laptop has very little to do with it. The quality of its screen and video card are what matters. They made junk 5 years ago, they made junk last September, and they make junk today. They also made good stuff 5 years ago, good stuff last September and good stuff now. It's WHAT you get, not when you got it.

If you have a Dell or an Apple, you can pretty much forget about any decent sense of color. Dell puts their white point insanely high, giving everything a bluish cast. Apple has terrible contrast, as do lots of other laptops. For brands that tend to have actually good screens, Asus has the nicest ones I've ever seen, the couple of Alienware laptops I've ever used both had good screens (although that was pre Dell buyout, so I don't know if it's still true, and they both had serious non-screen related flaws anyway, so I would never recommend them), and I've seen mixed levels of quality from HP (usually good, but sometimes terrible).

Anyway, chances are your screen isn't that good, since the vast majority of laptop screens are not. Still, there should be things you can do to improve your experience.



You'll never get it sorted out perfectly, but there are a few things you can try.

Calibrating your Photoshop color profile is a good start. Unfortunately, LL has never suggested any profile settings, but you can get some idea by putting the SL color picker side by side with the Photoshop color picker on-screen. Take a look at how pure red (255,0,0), pure green (0,255,0), pure blue (0,0,255) look in both pickers. How similar are they? Also, look at black (0,0,0), white (255,255,255), and 50% gray (127,127,127). By comparing those six colors from both programs very carefully, you might be able to get an idea of what needs to be changed.

I find that the North America General Purpose 2 profile works pretty well for me in Photoshop. The RGB working space it includes is sRGB IEC61966-2.1 (don't ask me what the numbers mean). In Photoshop, go Edit -> Color Settings, and see what profile you've currently got assigned. If it's not that one, try that one with the above experiment. If you don't like that one, try one of the others. There is no absolute right or wrong; the appearance of all will vary with your particular display.

Keep in mind though, even if you were to come up with an absolutely perfect match, that doesn't mean other people will see what you see. Two colors that look exactly the same on your screen could look completely different on someone else's, particularly if your monitor doesn't have great contrast (which most laptop screens don't). Even two identically spec'ed high quality monitors can look vastly different when plugged into differently spec'ed video cards. There's no way you'll ever account for what everyone in SL is seeing.

Also, in-world lighting conditions make a huge difference, as you mentioned. Avatars are lit differently from prims; everything is lit differently under Windlight than under the standard lighting model; some people can see local lighting, some can't. Again, there's just no way to account for all the variables. Everybody's seeing everything a little differently.

There comes a point when you just have to decide close enough is close enough. If your skins in SL don't look exactly like they do in Photoshop, that's fine, as long as they look pretty close. If they're looking radically different, then you can worry. But if it's just a little different, live with it.


As for previewing your skins with actual SL lighting on them, there is another option you might want to try. It's slightly complicated, and slightly risky, but it works. I believe it's the method to which Nam was referring. Do the following:

1. Go into your SecondLife\character folder, and find the three files that determine the avatar's base skin appearance. These are called head_color.tga, lowerbody_color.tga, and upperbody_color.tga.

2. Rename these files to something else. Call them whatever you want, as long as you remember what they are, so you can easily change them back later. If you screw this up, you'll need to reinstall SL, so be careful.

3. Take your three skin textures, copy them into the character folder, and give them the three original names of those default files. Now when you look at your avatar in SL, it will show the skin you made instead of the default skin.

4. Make any changes you want in Photoshop, and repeat the process until you feel your skin looks right.

5. When you're all finished, remove your custom skin files from the character folder, and change the three default files back to their original names.

This method is kind of pain in the ass, but it is the only real way to preview skins directly on your own avatar in SL.




Get more RAM, immediately. You should be able to run both at once. If you want to be doing texture work for SL with any degree of seriousness, this is a must. If your machine has enough RAM, but still can't handle it, get a better machine.

That might sound cold, since obviously no one's made of money, and just running out and getting a new computer at the drop of a hat might not be realistic for you, but it is the truth. If your machine can't do what you need it to do, you need a better machine. Hopefully, if that is the case, you'll be able to find a way to get one.

A couple important additions: create a new skin with textures set to Blank, and wear this first.

Rebake Textures to see your own textures.

Its actually not a pain in the ass at all if you just set up a simple 3-step action that will do it automatically.
1. resize to 512 x 512 px,
2. Save a copy as "head_color.tga" to the proper directory (i set up a separate action for each of the body parts which saves under the appropriate name.) I set this up to NOT have a dialog prompt, so it just overwrites the previous file.
3. Undo Image size

Now just Rebake and enjoy!

The whole thing takes under 30 seconds and you can preview after every brushstroke if you choose.

Also, you don't need to rename the originals files. I just created a "Backups" folder and save the originals there.

Also ALso, you can skip the Resize to 512 step entirely to speed up the process AND see your high resolution texture on the avatar. (Great for those tricky areas)

This is one of the best tips Ive learned from these forums. Thankks, Namssor!!!

From Chosen: Apple has terrible contrast, as do lots of other laptops.

Aha. My MacBook Pro has contrast issues and this being my first laptop, I did not realize it was a laptop issue. It appears that the contrast is too high. I sometimes get ugly orange spots on skin when I know the photograph files are high quality. I can get it to look better in photoshop by lowering the contrast. Is this what you are talking about, Chosen? I thought about getting a better monitor and perhaps now is the time. I enjoy windlight which has contrast issues already.

Any monitor recommendations?

I think we're talking about two different things.

When a monitor's contrast is too low, you can sometimes get spotting, but I'm not sure that's what you actually mean. If it is a monitor issue, then what's happening is that since certain color values cannot be displayed you can end up with spotting or banding as the values abruptly shift from one stop to the next, instead of subtly grading between them. This can be pretty easily demonstrated on a low-contrast monitor by creating a simple black to white gradient diagonally across the screen. Look at it carefully, and you'll see areas that look more like stripes than continuous grades.

I think what you're talking about though is over-saturation, which is common in SL. Lowering the contrast on source images can often compensate for the over-saturated, poorly lit surfaces that exist all over SL. And of course, poor hardware will make any problem appear worse, but strictly speaking, that particular issue is not directly related to your hardware. It's just one of SL's shortcomings.



If you can afford one, the Eizo Felxscan S2411W is fantastic. 24", 1920x1280, 3000:1 contrast, 2 ms response time, incredible color consistency, user adjustable white point, lots of other great features. I've got two of these things, and I absolutely love them.

They're a bit pricey at $1349 each. When a friend of mine first bought one, I told him he was nuts for spending that much on a monitor. But then when I went over to his place and looked at the thing, I was blown away. I said "that's worth every penny", and then I saved to buy two for myself.

If you buy one (or more), get it from colormall.com. Those guys have fantastic service.

As for less expensive monitors, LG boasts the most impressive specs in the low to medium price range, from what I've seen. However, specs can be misleading, so it's best to take a look at the real thing before you buy. It's been a while since I've actually looked at anything in the flesh, so I can't comment all that intelligently in that regard. I just haven't been in the market for monitors since having gotten the Eizos. I'd say head over to Best Buy or something and take a look at the LG's. See if they look good to you.

As for brands to avoid, Apple's at the top of my list. They charge some of the highest prices for some of the worst specs around. Samsung would be number two. Did I mention misleading specs? Their stuff is unbelievably inconsistent, and their service is gawd awful. Dells, with their super high white point, aren't so great either.

I hope that's helpful.

Hey Namssor Daguerre!

Thanks for the information. The laptop is an HP and it seems VERY bright compared to my other desktop monitor. I'll make sure to replace the files and make folders for back up with actions from photoshop to make the process easier.

Chosen Few:
Thanks for the information. That first part is a little confusing to me :/.

"....an abuse of the forum"
No. Its a question that I asked and came back to read. You being dramatic and assuming I'm doing this for selfish reasons.

"When a question is answered publicly, it helps thousands of people at once."
Only 100 to 150 people will most likely view this post. Some who mis-understood the posts name and others who are lurking to answer questions. Your exaggerating a tad overboard.

"It really turns my stomach when people expect that this kind of abuse is OK. It's not. Look, if you can come here to ask the question, you can come back to read the answer. It's that simple. If you want a private answer, ask a private person individually (preferably not me). If you ask on a public forum, expect a public answer."

I asked the question and the post isn't locked. Your allowed to answer it and provide the information to the public. There isn't a ministry of truth here. . The reason I included contact information is if someone would like to get in touch who is also creating skins and if they would be willing to share information about how they create skins. I would definitely love to talk to other people who make skins and learn more from them. Its really just an honest request that you mis-interpreted. Although I'm not sure WHY you would think those things but I'm doing it for learning sake. Not to hide information from other Residents.

I can't get a computer. I'm working with what I have. Purchasing a new computer is unrealistic for me and while it may seem like the logical choice for you its not for me. I dont have a shop to support any kind of purchases at this point.

*snipped and stitched for clarity.
Yes it is selfish. While you may not agree with Chosen, there are several hundred (if not several thousand) people who do. Asking for a private response on a public forum that was set up for answering questions of the type you posted is rude, inconsiderate, and most of all selfish. It is an abuse of the forum, whether the thread is locked or not.
Doesn't matter *HOW MANY* people view the post, if *NO ONE* got an answer from it because you were contacted by someone privately with the answer.

All fine and dandy, but that's precisely what the forums are for. So no one has to go without an answer that was taken private.

Imagine the forums filled with thread after thread with the question "How do I get this box off my hand and wear my hair?" All with just the single post asking for information. Everyone was answered privately, but how many people were helped? Just the ones who asked in the open forums. Not a single person was helped who just lurk (there *are* those who lurk trying to find the answer, not just to post a response.) One public response would help all of them.

Chosen gives time, experience and expertise to these forums and doesn't get paid with anything more than a pat on the back most days. The WHY is pretty obvious from Chosen's post. Asking for a private answer on a public forum, which was set up as a way to get information to many, but having the information restricted to just you, defeats the purpose of the forums.

I agree with Chosen. Want a private response? Ask a private question. Otherwise, don't abuse the forums.

And to answer the OP RE: Beta Grid:
How many alts do you have that were created prior to Oct 10, 2007? They can all log into the beta grid at any time. Create a few more now for the next time the snapshot's updated. They're free.

A

Yer hijacking my post. >_<

Only person that had a problem with my request was Chosen and yourself. Everyone else was rather calm and civilized about it. It was a request. Sorry to hurt your feelings and cause you great discomfort. :/

Ummmm.. Echo, the only ones you heard from about asking for a private response were Chosen and Abba. That doesn't mean no one else agrees with them. It just means that they stated the position of most of the people who post answers here so well that the rest of us didn't feel the need to add anything.

But back to your real topic;

The color shifts between graphics programs and Second Life are made worse by the fact that everyone can change their screen gamma, and everyone running Windlight can change everything about how the world is lighted.

It's like trying to get your web content to look the same on all the monitors of all the people viewing that content world-wide, without any "web-safe" colors.

However, that being said, I've found that Snapshots taken in world, and opened and viewed in the sRGB IEC61966-2.1 color space in Photoshop, while they look just plain wrong, dark, and weird there, look perfect when they are uploaded to SL again.

In other words, if I take a screen shot for a vendor and open it in PS, I'm strongly tempted to "correct" the colors there. But if I leave it alone, when I upload the finished Vendor display to SL the colors match the product exactly.

Knowing that, I made Adjustment Layers that made the colors on the vendor snap match the colors I could see in the SL window. And then I reversed those adjustment layers (moved the sliders the opposite directions) so that I can make something that I create in PS look like it's an SL Snapshot.

Which means, of course, when it's uploaded to SL, it looks the way I wanted it to look in the first place.

At least on my monitor. Which is the only one I can see, so what the rest of you are seeing doesn't bug me.

All I need to do is turn those adjustment layers on before I upload, and I no longer have to use trial and error to get the color and contrast I want.