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"Downgrading" back to PS 7.0

Jesseaitui Petion
king of polynesia :P
Join date: 2 Jan 2006
Posts: 2,175
08-26-2006 01:21
I was reading a thread in here concerning alpha layers and it said to upgrade to photoshop 7.01 so I did. My question is, how do i get photoshop 7.0 back? Do I have to do a reinstall from the disc or is there a way to just uninstall the 7.01 update??

Please help
Thanks.
Chosen Few
Alpha Channel Slave
Join date: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 7,496
08-26-2006 06:50
First of all, there is no such thing as an "alpha layer". It's an alpha channel. Second, there are many VERY, VERY, VERY good reasons not to use Photoshop 7.0. The way 7.0 handles TGA files is completely different from how it's done in all other graphics applications (and TGA is the most commonly used texture format in all of 3D, just so you know). 7.0 was a failed experiment by Adobe, and they quickly abandoned it after it was discovered that it was riddled with problems. Here are a few of the big ones:
  1. TGA images made with 7.0 will be incompatible with most graphics applications!


  2. TGA's from 7.0 will contain artifacts that will be impossible to correct!


  3. Making a real alpha channel takes 2 seconds!


  4. Images with varying levels of transparency (like stained glass windows) will take you much longer to make with 7.0 workflow than they would doing it the normal way.


  5. If you EVER want to be able in your lifetime to work collaboratively with others, understanding established conventions is crucial. Alpha channels are one of the most universally applicable conventions there is. If you use 7.0 methodology instead of using real alpha channels, you will be selling yourself short in ways you can't even imagine!


  6. Most graphics applications will NOT be able to display your images properly if you use 7.0! It's only by some miracle that SL can do it. That could change at any time! If you continue using 7.0, you may wake up one day to find that all your SL textures are broken!


  7. Use real alpha channels, and you will ensure that your images will ALWAYS be able to be displayed by ALL capable programs! It's been this way since the dawn of modern graphics, and it will continue to be this way for decades to come!



Here's some excerpted further information I've shared before on the problems with 7.0:
From: Chosen Few
There is one inescapable fact that compells me to keep warning against using embedded/automated alpha. It's not as simple as does it work okay for some, most, or even all images for a certain person. The real achilles heal here is compatablility. Files with embedded alphas are incompatable with most other programs, and as I keep saying, it's somewhat miraculous that SL can even read them. Most programs can't. SL's ability to do it could change at any time.

Here's the deal. Channels, including alpha channels, are a standard that have been in place, completely unchanged for decades. It's one of the few examples in computing of something that was gotten right the first time, and it's been the core of all digital imagery ever since. There's not a graphics application on the face of the earth that doesn't understand what channels are and how to construct images from them. It's been that way since the dawn of graphics, and it will continue to be that way probably forever.

Embedded alphas on the other hand are the result of an experiment by one company in one product. The experiment was deemed a failure and was then abandoned very quickly. Because that abandonment happend so fast, there was never been a need for other programs to learn to use embedded alphas, so most of them can't. As time marches on, and the relatively few files in the world that have embedded alphas become more and more diluted in a sea of proper files with real alphas, what few programs can use the embedded ones have even less and less reason to continue to support them. And as these programs become more and more sophisticated with new features, all designed to take advantage of real alphas, it can easily be argued that there's real incentive not to support the oddball embedded alpha files. It's a relative waste of effort to keep working something so obscure (and in many people's eyes, "kiddified" or "unproffessional";) into the display system.

So, to those who continue to use embedded alphas despite the repeated warnings from proffessionals in the graphics industry, be prepared for the fact that the day may come when your images no longer work in SL.

And by the way, if you're wondering just how bad the damage can be, here's an example of one of the ways in which an embedded alpha can be misread: .



This image of a Star Trek combadge was created in Photoshop 7.0 using the TGA saver this thread is talking about. It started out with a with a transparent background, but after opening it in a program that doesn't understand embedded alphas (PS8), it looked like what you see here. Half the transparent area turned white, and the other half got covered in lines extruded from edge pixels from the opaque part of the image. Once that happened, it was all over. The TGA file would not open properly in any program including PS7 from then on.

My hard drive is full of pictures that developed this exact same problem after having been opened in various programs that don't support embedded alphas. Each was created using the exact same saver utility that this thread is talking about, and each became corrupted the moment it was read by another program. For comparison, it's worth noting that none of my other images have ever been corrupted, only those with embedded alphas. Also, I should mention that not all my images with embedded alphas have had this happen, only some of them. I don't know why some continue to function while others don't, but I don't really care. There's an obvious pattern here, and the obvious common thread is the embedded alphas.

Okay, so one might say, "No big deal; this kind of damage looks easy to fix, right?" WRONG.

If you're still in PS7 mentality, instinct tells you to just erase the backgroud again and all will be good again. Well guess what. That doesn't work. Erase it a hundred times, and those weird lines and white space will be back again as soon as you close and re-open the file.

If you've accepted that PS7 thinking isn't gonna cut it anymore, meaning you're finally willing to use real alphas now, then instinct says just go back in and give the thing a real alpha to mask out the damage. Well guess what again. Those embedded alphas are in there to stay, and they don't always like sharing the rent with real alpahs. In my experience, giving the image a real alpha after it already has an embedded one has no guarantee of success. Sometimes it works; sometimes it doesn't, and I've never been able to determine any rhyme or reason as to why or why not. It's a crap shoot, and that's that.

Even when it does work though, it means you've just done exactly what you tried to avoid by using the automation in the first place. In other words all you did was put off until today what you could have done yesterday. But, what would have been a 2-second job while you were first making the file can take significantly longer when all you've got to work with is a flat TGA with wonky lines all over it.

Okay, so now maybe one might say "No big deal; I still have all my original PSD's and I can make new TGA's from those." Well, great. You can output new TGA's with real alphas that won't get corrupted, and you WILL have success, but guess what AGAIN. You're still doing work now that you should have done before. Even if it only takes you a few seconds per file to make the alpha and output the new TGA, multiply that by all the potentially corruptable TGA's you've ever made, and you've probably got a ton of work on your hands.

Alright, now one might say "Well, I've been uploading these embedded-alpha TGA's to SL forever and SL reads them just fine, so what's the big deal?" Well, the big deal is what I said back at the beginning of this post. There's no guarantee whatsoever tha SL will continue to read these oddly coded files in the future. It could easily stop reading them next year, next month, next week, or even tomorrow. Every time you make a file without a real alpha, you're rolling the dice on whether or not it will work with SL. So, wouldn't it make sense just to start using real alphas now rather than wait for things to go wrong?

Believe me, I don't own any stock in the alpha channel market. I don't profit in any way by telling people to use real alphas. In fact, as a texture artist, I'd profit more if things did go wrong for other people because I'd be the one holding all the uncorrupted textures. So why am I so adamant about this? I just can't stand to see people having problems when I know how they can prevent them. Embedded alphas cause problems, plain and simple. Real alphas are the prevention for those problems. Use them.

Philosophically there is nothing "wrong" with using automation to create transparency or anything else, as long as the automation works reliably. However, since in this case the automation is not reliable, I have to reject it strongly on technical grounds. Technically, there is a lot "wrong" with alpha channel automation. To anyone who uses it, unserstand that you may be doing so at your own peril. The process is riddled with problems, which is why Adobe abandoned it.


Jesseaitui, for your own sake, I'd highly recommend you learn to use alpha channels properly. It's extremely important, and it's not hard at all. See the stickied guide at the top of this forum for instructions, and if you have any questions on it, by all means ask. Alpha channels are quick, painless, and rediculously easy to create. There's simply no reason not to use them.


All that having been said, if you really want to revert back to 7.0 (which again, I strongly caution you not to do), then the easiest way to do it is just to uninstall the newer version, and reinstall 7.0. Alternatively, there are ways to insert 7.0's TGA saver utility into other versions of Photoshop, and if you scour this forum, you can find them, but I won't take the time to explain how to do something that I know is a really, really, really bad idea. I hope you'll instead embrace the (very simple) challenge of learning to use alpha channels, and join the rest of us in the normal graphics community.
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Jesseaitui Petion
king of polynesia :P
Join date: 2 Jan 2006
Posts: 2,175
08-26-2006 14:25
You came across slightly rude. My first language is not english and i have a VERY hard time understanding the tutorials on how to make alpha CHANNELS. When I started using photoshop it was photoshop 7 so I didn`t know any better. All I knew is the way i`ve been doing it worked "just fine" which I now see is not the case.

Aside from the fact that you sound like i`m some kind of disease for using PS7, you pointed out things i didn`t know. And I won`t be reverting back.
Chosen Few
Alpha Channel Slave
Join date: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 7,496
08-26-2006 14:43
I'm sorry if a language barrier between us led to your feeling insulted somehow. That certainly was not my intention. I don't know you; I have no reason to be rude to you. My only purpose was to provide you as much information as I could so that you could make the best decision you could. That's it.

It would be nice next time if you'd give the benefit of the doubt to those trying to help you, and look at the possiblilty that your own interpretation of how someone "comes across" might be a little off the mark, especially since you say English is not easy for you. I can assure you if I were trying to be rude to you, you'd know it. I wasn't then, and I'm not now. I hope the information was helpful.
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Land now available for rent in Indigo. Low rates. Quiet, low-lag mainland sim with good neighbors. IM me in-world if you're interested.
Jesseaitui Petion
king of polynesia :P
Join date: 2 Jan 2006
Posts: 2,175
08-26-2006 14:52
Wewt I did it.

Thanks Chosen



Man now I have to remake all of my tattoos.
Cottonteil Muromachi
Abominable
Join date: 2 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,071
08-26-2006 19:49
From: Jesseaitui Petion
You came across slightly rude. My first language is not english and i have a VERY hard time understanding the tutorials on how to make alpha CHANNELS. /QUOTE]

Chosen, this is what I am talking about. You don't intend to be rude, but this is how people feel when they read your responses, regardless of how helpful you were trying to be. You also have a rambling way of putting across ideas that few can comprehend fully or find useful. I'm just surprised that sticky is still there. Every newbie whom I've met who has read that thought it was such a pile of confusion, they'd rather find another source of information. But of course, I'm just a troll. What does it matter.
Chie Salome
~( * w * )~
Join date: 19 May 2005
Posts: 221
08-26-2006 19:56
Doesn't matter at all and you are my favorite troll Cot.
And I looove it when you really mean to be rude <333
Bobby Dayton
Test Pilot for Airfix
Join date: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 206
08-31-2006 02:16
Personally, I dont find someone rude who has spent a great deal of time to explain what can be complex in a thorough fashion. Especially if it stops me making a big mistake that is difficult to correct later.