Yet Another PS7 TGA Issue

I got a new computer and my world has gone to hell. I will do my best to give you the cliff notes.

on my old computer, the version of photoshop worked properly. i was able to save as a 32 bit tga and the transparent areas would automatically display properly both in ps and in sl without having to get into all the gray scale work of alpha layers.

on this new computer (a gateway gt5014 personal pc to be exact) i installed ps7 exactly as i did in the past. in ps, when i save the tga file it appears to be doing exactly what it always has. when i reopen the tga file in ps - the transparency remains true.

when i upload to sl - in the preview window the transparency is there as usual. once the file has fully uploaded into world, i get a solid black background rather than transparent.

further issues - any texture i have ever uploaded to sl is now displaying w/ the black backround. even textures i uploaded 4 months ago that are baked into clothing properly, the original texture file is black.

i have downloaded the tga patch from adobe. when i install that, the tga files won't even save properly in ps7. it just transforms my transparent into white both in sl and in ps7.

i have downloaded the 7.0.1 update - still white in back.

i have updated every driver known to man on my computer and graphics card.

even more confusing - if i save the tga as i always have and email it ariel (who also uses ps7) the transparency works and is showing up in ps and sl. if i use the exact same technique on my boyfriends computer - it works, my old computer - it works. but on chem's computer its acting as it does on mine.

so i guess i'm just asking you computer techies to help me out and tell me where i can look next. all i have figured out so far is that its not the adobe updates and patches i need. and its not sl's fault. it appears to be some isolated issue with my computer - would it be graphics card related?

any help, any suggestion would be appreciated - i'm at my wits end here and out of ideas.

Something to do with the computer being manufactured by ex-dairy farmers?

The built-in Intel graphics chip might be the culprit, as you said. To troubleshoot, If your old computer has a graphics card (not built-in), try taking it out from there and putting it into your new Gateway. Install whatever graphics drivers necessary and disable the built-in Intel graphics to get this old graphics card working.

The other thing I can think of might be the version of Windows installed. Is it Windows Media Center edition?

well i have the radeon x700 pro sitting in my living room which i had every intention of installing but you know the second i rip that lil sticker on the back of this gateway, its mine forever and ever and always.

i just hate to tear into it if that isn't going to fix the issue for sure. it seems to be a pretty great system so far and as far as graphics go - i have negative lag and texture load time is sl right now. does me no good if i can't upload any working files lol.

it is the media center pc btw.

well i'm downloading the ps cs2 trial and if it works and if i like it - i'll buy the f###er. i suppose its time i stopped being stubborn and set in my ways w/ ps7.

if it does work, i guess the return on that graphics card will pay for half of it. but at this point i'm just not holding my breath that ps cs will fix the issue.

thanks for the help though. i think sometimes we just need to talk these things out to find the answers that are already lurking in our heads.

Well the short answer is start using alpha channels (no such thing as alpha layers, by the way). I realize from the way you described alphas that that's probably not what you wanted to hear, but bear with me for a second. Once you get used to making alphas, it takes 2 seconds to do, and you'll find it gives you ton more control over your image quality. You'll very quickly find that you no longer think of it as "having to get into all the gray scale work", but as a quick and simple step to insure that your work looks the way you want it to look. Also, if you ever want to branch out past SL, alphas are vital for many aspects of 3D and 2D work.

For an analogy, being a digital artist (whether professional, amateur, or hobbyist) and not using alphas is kind of like being a painter and not using masking tape. At first, all that taping might seem like a big waste of time to a new painter, but in the end, every painter discovers that it actually saves a ton of time, it improves the quality of the work tremendously, and it just becomes an instinctive part of the workflow. Trust me, if you're not using alphas, you're spending way too much time on certain tasks right now, and you're sacrificing so much control over your images, the amount is almost indescribable.

Anyway, as for your current problem, it sounds like there are two things going on, the white backgrounds and the black backgrounds. I'll start with the white, since that's the easy one.

It's perfectly normal for trapsparent areas to turn white after saving to TGA if no alpha channel is present. This will happen with all versions of Photoshop other than 7.0, including 7.0.1, and including 7.0 with the updated TGA plug-in. The reason this didn't happen to you in 7.0 before is because 7.0 was Adobe's one and only experiment with automated alpha channel creation for TGA. You don't actually see the alpha in 7.0, but it is there.

For 7.0, they tried to go for a more WYSIWYG feel (ironic, considering you can't see the alpha), but the experiment was a complete and total failure. The automation creates artifacts, the most common of which is a ghostly white halo around the opaque parts of your image. Under the 7.0 model, those artifacts are impossible to get rid of. Under every other version of Photoshop (and all other comparable graphics programs), those artifacts are easy to fix, and even easier to prevent in the first place. Just create an alpha channel properly, and the artifacts go away, instantly.

So, the way to get rid of those white backgrounds you're seeing is to create an alpha channel and make sure to include it in the TGA output by saving as 32-bit. If you want the instructions for how to do that, see this thread. After the first couple times, it should take you no more than 5-10 seconds to fix each image, assuming you still have the original layered work. If you didn't save layered copies, then the repairs will take you a little longer than that, but for any new images, it should still only take a few seconds to add the alpha before saving.

Okay, problem number one solved. On to problem number 2, the black backgrounds. If I'm reading you right, it sounds like images that showed up as transparent on your old machine are showing up as black on the new one. That definitely sounds like a graphics card problem. It sounds like your machine just doesn't want to draw transparency, period.

I'm almost positive this problem is driver-related, and I'm sure it can be solved, but if it turns out it can't, return this machine, and get a different one, preferably a different model. This sounds like a pretty serious issue. Being able to draw transparency properly is a basic function, and I'd be willing to bet that if this machine can't do it, then there are probably other systemic problems with the machine that you haven't had time to discover yet. Don't panic yet though. It's very likely that this can be corrected.

EDIT: After looking at the system specs, I agree with Cottoneil. I'd be that the Intel graphics card is the culpret. They're really terrible. They're also not supported by SL, which means anything could happen when you run SL on this machine. Frankly, you're lucky it works at all.

As for the Radeon, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Radeon X 700 Pro an AGP card, right? According to the spec sheet I'm looking at, your machine does not have an AGP slot. Unless I missed something, you can't install that card into that machine. You'll need a PCI Express card.

lol channels yes. i've been working on this so long my head is jello. thing is, i use alphas in quite a few projects outside of sl. i just hate having to do so in here as one of the reasons i can mass produce is by taking shortcuts like this.

i just downloaded cs as i said i would and guess what - still doesn't work.

if it were the machine not recognizing transparency it seems i would see it in other aspects or programs but thats something i'll have to keep in the forefront while i try to trouble shoot this further. its a scary thought isn't it?

sigh - next step i suppose is to just go ahead and create the alpha as it was intended and see if that works. if it doesn't then the computer goes back.

Hehe, I've edited my post like 5 times now, so I'm not sure which version you saw before responding. The last part I added was:



Wow, quoting myself feels strange. Anyway, I'm glad to hear you already know what you're doing with alphas. I guess that means I wasted some keystrokes then in that long post, but hey, it's certainly not the first time.

It must be pretty frustrating to get a new machine and have it behave like this, so you have my sympathy. If it were me, I'd probably send it back. Intel grpahics is usually the first thing I try to avoid in a computer. They make a hell of a CPU, but their graphics is junk.

its working!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yes that exclamation points abuse was needed.

i called gateway and emailed adobe and it seems that the black is sometimes displayed with certain programs and graphics but as a translation of transparency. which seems like a bunch of crap to me but it is working.

and yeah..i had the computer for 6 hours when my internet connection died and forced me to play sims 2 OFFLINE. then i get back online, upload the files and wtf is this? 2 days of troubleshooting and talking w/ the wrong technical support people - they're so hit and miss - and finally all it took was talking it out with you. thank you chosen )

and the thing with the gateway and the intel card was that i originally planned on replacing it whether it worked or not. the new graphics card is about 15 feet away lol. we 3d gamers and graphic artists are picky about the cards we use and its always worked out to be more inexpensive to find the system you want and then just replace the card rather than find the prebuilt that includes a good graphics card. but yeah, i'm a little freaked out by the whole situation and think i'll give it a week now that i seem to be in working order and go from there.

either way, case closed for now a mischief release is on its way.

Glad to hear it's working. Uh, you're welcome, although I don't think I actually did anything.