If you make skins, this might be worrisome

I don't make skins myself, but do use DAZ Studio and other graphics programs. I saw this in DAZ today and thought skin makers might want to be aware.

http://www.daz3d.com/i/3d-models/new-releases/tc2-second-life?item=7820&cat=421&_m=d

Unless I am very mistaken, it appears to be a way for anyone to convert the skin textures for models like Victoria 4 into something usable for SL avatars.

During the whole Minnu debacle someone on SLU asserted that converting a Poser 4 skin to something that would fit the SL mesh wasn't all that much effort and I think she went into a fairly decent description of what's involved.

Yes, it seems this product does allow you to convert existing skins that work for Victoria, Aiko and Michael in the DAZ line to work on an SL avatar.

At a minimum, not counting sale price discounts, you would have to pay $45 USD to set yourself up to be able to conbert from the DAZ figures to an SL avatar skin. More if you want both Michael and Victoria/Aiko. So if all you want to do is convert one skin, it could cost you about L$12,000 for that skin. Not counting what you paid to get the DAZ version of the skin in the first place.

It's a one-way conversion, from DAZ to SL, so it can't be used to take existing SL skins and map them the other direction, to use in DAZ. Though the only reason I could imagine for doing that would be to use the tattoo add-on for this converter, and then re-import the tattooed skin back to SL.

The biggest worry should be for DAZ skin sellers, who will no doubt find the skins that they sell for use in DAZ being pirated and sold in SL. But I don't think the SL skin sellers would worry much. the DAZ Skins would lose a LOT of resolution being converted to SL format, and probably will not look as good as a skin that was designed to look good in SL.

I pretty much agree. Someone who can't draw still has to get the skin textures some place, and it's still cheaper to buy them inside SL (in most cases). You also get a far better product if it is designed for the UVW it was intended for in the first place (I will elaborate below).

Even if the conversion worked the other way it would be crap in, crap out unless the person converting the files had access to high resolution (4096x4096) SL textures, and good drawing skills.

I think the DAZ skin sellers will do fine. If anything, they will see increased sales as a new market is opened up to them. Beware, though, the conversion process will still require a LOT of tweaking, and good software/drawing skills. This software product (TC2) actually makes it a lot easier to prosecute someone (who uses it illegally) in a court of law. The process pretty much standardizes the conversion method. That makes the digital paper trail a lot easier to follow, if not carefully covered up. Most people who do not design skins professionally will overlook all the tell-tale signs of the conversion process. I'm not going to point out all of them, but multiple seam issues, missing information (no fingernails or toenails), and horrible distortion problems in all the hard to texture places make this conversion process no contest against a skin designed for SL in the first place.

My biggest worry is that those who can draw, but don't currently use any 3D applications (like Maya or ZBrush) will be tempted to cross the line, cheat, and use this TC2 application as a quicker and illegal means to an end. It's Ok if they keep the textures to themselves, but clearly a violation of copyrights if they sell or give them away to others in any form.



I think the operative word there is "fit". Yes, it fits, but it looks like crap unless you know how to draw, use Photoshop (or similar), and work with the SL avatar.

Thanks Nam. I appreciate hearing the opinions of a skin making pro on this.

Correct me if I am wrong, but this wouldn't even be all that good for a skin creator who intended making skins for SL, would it? If you had DAZ skins already that you had created, and you just wanted to port over and then clean up, it may save time and effort there. But if you were designing new skins, it occurs to me that you would just be introducing new and unnecessary seams and distortions into the process. Better to design the skin for the SL avatar to begin with, right?

I can possibly see some use in picking this up. Before I came to SL, I had a DAZ version of Ceera that I rather liked, which used the "Pia" skin for Victoria. If I could pick up the converter on a good sale, it might be worth the effort to import and clean up that Pia skin, for personal use only, to regain that "look". Or I might use it to convert some "Furry" skins that I have already in DAZ, and that I created, but which I never re-did for SL.

Then again, I'm really quite used to my SS Labs GX2 skin now, so it is more a curiosity for me than something worth spending money on.

Just checked, and with current sales and bundles plus my Platinum Club voucher for the month, I could get the base application, and the plugins for SL avatar, Victoria and Aiko 4, and Victoria 3, for about 18 bucks US.

But it is also Windows-only. No Mac version. So I think I will pass, for now.

Does it save a skin creator (note that I carefully avoid the words "artist" and "designer" time if they want to make illegal photo sourced skins without the use of a 3D app?

Maybe. It depends on their skill level with Photoshop.

Does it save a skin artist time if they are using a 3D app?

Definitely no. It makes for more, and unecessary work. With a 3D app. a skin artist can significantly reduce the production time on a skin, and, at the same time, use the same type of original high resolution photo source materials that the DAZ skin artists use themselves to create their skins. I highly recommend using a 3D application to produce photo sourced skins. I use ZBrush. The other popular ones are 3DS Max and Maya. Any of those applications are combined with Photoshop to produce final skins for SL.

This has already been possible in Modo and Max using a similar technique to the way normal maps are created. I've done it myself to create a normal map for use in baking that shades the SL avatar with the anatomical detail of the poser female model. The same setup could have been used to covert the textures. It's not simple to do but it was already doable. I agree with Nam that this isn't much of a worry. It's unlikely that converting using Daz would yield a high enough quality skin to bother with. People will be better off designing from scratch for SL.

I agree with Chip. I've tried using Max and ZBrush and even using a pre-existing skin template say from Poser - there are so many things you have to fix that it just doesn't make sense to JUST use a 3D application. Needless to say I gave up and just used Photohshop - more control.

However - given the fact that skin rippers and pirates in general don't care about quality I think that you will see more of High-Quality texture, low artisan quality skins coming out. What I mean by that is that the texture and features will be great, but there will be seams and other glitches.

I guess as consumers - people will have to be careful and only shop where the merchant is known to create their own skins from scratch.

Well... this is actually going to be a boon as far as I'm concerned. Mostly from the standpoint of a frustrated artist. There's all manner of things I can do in photoshop. But what I cannot deal with is trying to compose something in an intentionally deformed way to be wrapped around a model. I have to go back and forth between the clothing viewer and photoshop (at least til I accquire CS4) over and over and it becomes hellish. Trying to do light and shadow on skins in photoshop and get musculature right is almost physically painful. It is if you cound the migraines it causes.

That said, being able to use TC2 to convert say... Development kits for Victoria and David. Textures meant by their original artists to be used to develop other skins to be sold in the Renderosity marketplace or DAZ3D's site? That could be the jump start I've been waiting for when it comes to designing the skins I've been meaning to do all this time.

Unfortunately, I think the looting of the Poser community has already begun. I happened to see a skin on sale at some place a week or so ago that was clearly pirated from a Poser artist I know of by the name of Samildanach. I asked the person if they'd made the skin, and they said they'd converted it from a poser skin they had. I asked them how, and they said they'd done it by hand. Now that I know of the existance of this program, I have to take that boast with a whole lick of salt.

I know I'll be using it to take advantage of some of the Vicky3 and Vicky4 development kits I happened to get a while back so I have a starting point for skinning in SL. Maybe the exercise will finally get my head around the whole idea and I can start skinning outfits as well. I do intend to convert some of the ones I have in my archive for private use, which I won't be selling ever, the same as with some of the eyes I converted from my poser archives for my private use. But I've made the promise to myself that I won't sell any converted skin unless I've significantly altered it first and turned it into something quite else from what it was.