Photoshop CS4 / SL Video Conflicts

I just finished up a large project, so I finally have time to play around with PS CS4 Extended. I'm having trouble running it alongside SL. Either program alone runs just great, but when I try to run both at the same time, one or the other fails every time.

If PS is running first, SL instantly crashes upon login. If SL is running first, PS won't display images properly. It just shows random blocks of color all over the canvas (for both 2D and 3D files).

I'll list my system specs, and then I'll ask my specific questions. Thanks in advance for any help.


Specs (not all are directly relevant, but I'm giving a full listing anyway, in case anyone's aware of any known conflicts):

2.66 GHz Intel QX6800 Core2 Extreme (quad)
EVGA nVidia 680i SLI motherboard
(2) EVGA nVidia GeForce 8800 GTX, 768MB each, SLI disabled to run dual monitors
2.5GB DDR2 System RAM
(5) WD Raptor 10,000 RPM 150GB HD
(1) WD Caviar 7200 RPM 500GB HD
SoundBlaster X-Fi Extreme Audio
Tagan 1100W PSU
(2) Eizo S2411W 24" Monitors
Windows XP Media Center 2005 SP3


Here are my questions:

1. Has anyone else had this same problem?

2. If so, were you able to solve it, and how?

3. My best guess is this is a driver problem. Assuming I'm right about that, does anyone know what nVidia driver version will run both PS and SL successfully? I'd rather not have to experiment with half a dozen or more different versions if I don't have to.

4. If it's not a driver problem, does anyone have any other ideas?


Thanks!

This is a little worrying...

I currently use the CS3 Production and Design Suites but tommorrow am having delivered the CS4 Production Premium Suite.

I haven't experienced any conflicts or problems using the CS3 suite and SL at the same time; but this give me pause for thought before performing the upgrade.

Will be watching this thread closely, and would be grateful for any further info

ASUS Striker Extreme m/board
Q6600 @ 2.4
3Gb RAM
XFX nvidia GTX 260 896Mb - XXX Edition (178 drivers)
Vista Ultimate 32bit
2 x 22inch DVI widescreen monitors
Toughpower 850W PSU

Someone else posted this problem, but I can't remember where. Might be in Resident. And I'm not sure if it was resolved.

Other than fiddling with drivers, the only other thing I can think of is to drop another copy of OpenGL in one of your programs working directories. It's a longshot, but you never know.

edit:

I must be seeing things because I can't find anybody else posting this. Maybe it's time I got back on meds.

I am able to use CS4 Photoshop at the same time as using SL. Works with both OpenGL use enabled and disabled.

I am on Vista Ultimate with ATI 4670

If you go into CS4 Help->GPU... off the main menu it takes you to a page that talksa about CS4 video card issues.

I had to upgrade my video card to get the Shader 3.0 to enable use of OpenGL.

If I remember the other person that posted was getting somem kdin of resources not available error message.

Not cool. I just tried to fire up Maya while CS4 was running. The program itself seemed to open just fine, but when I tried to open a scene, it froze. I had to kill it from Task Manager. It seems CS4 really wants to be the lone GPU hog, even if hardware acceleration is turned off. This is really frustrating.

I'll keep experimenting, and reporting my progress here. And I'll keep asking for suggestions as well. Thanks for the replies that have come so far.



Interesting idea. I'll give it a whirl. Thanks.



My laptop has Vista Ultimate on it, and PS will run at the same time as SL on it. However, there's a slight hitch, which makes it a difficult comparison. nVidia has not gotten around to updating the 64-bit GeForce 8700M GT driver for quite a while now. While the 32-bit version is in the 175's, the 64-bit is still stuck at 167's, which is apparently too old for PS's liking. It won't detect the laptop's graphics cards as compatible for hardware acceleration. So I've got no way, for now, of knowing whether the difference is a Vista vs. XP issue, a 64-bit vs. 32-bit issue, or actually if the older driver actually is more stable for PS/SL coexistence.

I won't be able to know for certain until I put Vista Ultimate on my desktop.




Thanks. I had looked at that already, actually, as PS popped up a window with a link to it the first few times it started up. The only reference I found to the 8800GTX is that it's on the supported list. I didn't see any known issues with it, if there are any.


I hope you'll post your own experience here as well. I'll be curious to see how it goes for you (and everyone else who'd care to comment).




I hate to say this, but my impression so far is they should have left CS4 on the drawing board just a wee bit longer. I'm really disappointed. The new features are as good as advertised, for sure, but they should have spent more time on stability. In addition to the conflicts with SL and Maya (and I assume probably all other 3D apps), there are some really annoying bugs. Hopefully Adobe will be diligent about issuing patches quickly.

Well, I seem to have found a driver that works, at least sort of. What I had been using was 178.24. Even though I know a lot of SL users had reported problems with 176 and up, I'd been doing just fine with staying current. But I just now decided to give good old 175.19 a try, since that seems to be the most universally agreed upon driver for SL stability. Now, as long as I keep hardware acceleration turned of in PS it doesn't prevent other programs from operating properly. I guess I'll have to live without PS's hardware-dependent features, at least for now.


EDIT: Looks like I spoke too soon. SL might like 175.19, but Maya absolutely hates it.

OK, I took the plunge, and finally upgraded my desktop from XP to Vista Ultimate 64-bit. SL and PS get along just fine now. Neither one seems to care in the slightest whether the other is running or not.

This is with driver 175.19, by the way. I haven't tried any others.

when I reinstalled CS4 today all my images where black when I opened them if I moved CS4 to the other monitor they were fine. I installed the Nvidia driver 178.24 now they arent black but if I move an image they disappear or go gray till I click into the imge . It seems jittery and a bit flacky. Im also runnin XP media center with 2 8800's 768 ram not in sli. Also same as Chosen for me SL crashes on start up.

Your story is pretty much the same as mine, Sparkle. I experienced every symptom you mentioned, exactly. Just so you know, I tried three different drivers with XP Media center. 169.21 caused the black image issue. 184.24 caused the image to disappear when moved, and then reappear when clicked, just as you've described, and SL would crash. 175.19 worked sort of OK, but PS was pretty sluggish to respond under it.

The problems did not go away until I upgraded my OS. If you've got a 64-bit processor, Vista Ultimate with the 175.19 nVidia driver would be what I'd recommend.

Of course, not everyone's going to be willing or able to go that route, so if anyone comes up with an XP 32-bit solution, please post it.

My specs are very similar to yours, and I have no problems running about applications. You might want to run a diagnostics test, and see what's sucking up your resources.

Uggg frustration I tried the 175.19 drivers and I lose my second monitor under it, I also tried using the new beta driver 180.42 and it had the same issues as 178.24 so I'm reinstalling 178.24.

I have to finish several paintings for class I need to get this functioning somewhat if theres anything anyone can suggest. I also have maya 9 coming so it looks Im going to have to go with Vista like you did Chosen.

I dont know what the differences are between XP media center and Vista 64 bit can you clarify?
Any other issues I need to be aware of before I do this?

I am running

XPS 720 H2c Intel Core2 Extreme QX6700
Intel Core 2 Quad 2.66
4 gig DDR2 SDRAMof ram
2 Geforce 8800s 768 ram (not running in SLI so can run dual monitors)
Sata Raid 0 with Dual 160GB 10000 Rpm

Windows XP Media Center

Ok well disapointing I would probably wait before ordering CS4 if your on the fence, till they can iron this out. I can get it working only if I turn off the Open GL in preferences. Can someone tell me what this means as far as what features wont be available?

You won't have the 3D manipulator thingy in the left corner when you're working with 3D objects. You'll still be able to use the manipulation tools from the toolbox, though.

Also, you won't be able to use things like smooth zoom, smooth rotate, and the pixel grid.

None of this is a showstopper, in my opinion. These things are useful, but certainly not vital.



The differences between XP and Vista on the surface are pretty obvious, so I won't spend much time talking about them. If you've never used Vista before, head over to any local computer store, Best Buy, Circuit City, etc., and play around with it. They've rearranged a few things, which takes a little getting used to, but it's still very much Windows.

As for the difference between 64-bit and 32-bit, the most relevant thing to talk about is memory limits. All 32-bit operating systems have a hard limit of 4GB total memory, including video memory and system memory combined. Vista Ultimate 64-bit, on the other hand, can use up to 128GB of memory.

Since you've got dual GeForce 8800's each with 768MB video memory, you're limited to 2.5GB usable system RAM with your current OS. You said you've got 4GB physically in the machine (just like I do), but XP is only actually using the first 2.5 of that. Upgrade to a 64-bit OS, and you'll actually get to use all 4GB.



Not all programs will work. Most will, but might have a few older ones, or XP-specific ones that won't. Take a good look at all the programs you've got, and do a little research to see if any won't work.

Also, you'll need to be certain there are 64-bit drivers available for all your devices. Your listed system specs look fine, but you'll also need to think about your printer, scanner, and any other peripherals.

If there's anything you absolutely need that won't work with 64-bit, you can always set up a dual boot. That way, you can restart under XP to use those things, and then reboot back to Vista when you're done. It's somewhat inconvenient, of course, but it works.

As stated by others above the requirements for CS4 are great due to the Open Gl Rendering and active paint on Object system. A 64 bit system will truly help as well as upgrading RAM if regardless of current setup. With the increased capabilities of PS CS series the need for a 1GB video card should be a stated recommended items for the program. Also bear in mind that when in PSCS4 your also using open GL as Second life is and those are only one set of drivers n your system which will gradually slow the CPU by length and intensity of use.
Also remember that CS4 is optimized for use with Intel, not AMD.

Being in to Maya, World Builder, Poser, 3DS Max, Terragen, Z Brush and many more programs I am constantly trying to increase the capabilities of my OGL system.

Listed recommendations:

1) 64 Bit OS
2) increase of Ram (8 GB Recommended)
3) Upgrade Open GL drivers if required and last but not least
4) 1GB Video card with min of 3.0 shader render

I recommend no products not give my sys specs, but take it for what its worth, the key here is as the programs become more intense the upgrades will be necessary.

Good post, Maliki. It's seeming more and more like Adobe has workstations in mind for going forward, not consumer grade or gaming machines. That's not necessarily a bad thing, since Photoshop is a professional tool. It's just a little unfortunate for us SL people, since SL won't run well on a workstation.

But of course, Maya runs much better on a workstation as well, but lots of people run it on gaming rigs. Phtoshop and other Adobe products will probably fall into that same category from now on. Yes, you can do it, but no, you won't get the best possible performance from it, and you have to learn to live with certain glitches.

If I can scrape the money together, I'm thinking of putting together a Xeon/Quadro based machine for doing my work, and using my gaming rig just for SL and games. Basically, the work flow would be make stuff on the workstation, then use it on the gaming rig.

I have 2 8800s with 768 mb are you still suggesting I would need to go to 1 gig cards? I just set this system up right before the 1 gig cards came out so I would be really sad if this is going to be the only way to get decent performance. I am willing to take the plunge increase ram to 8 gigs and go with Vista 64 bit if I must with a dual boot.

How bad is SL going to suck on Vista?

8GB of RAM? Am I misunderstanding that? I've 4, which seems adequate (if not ideal) for 3D modeling (Zbrush, starting to learn Maya) and CS2. Will I really need a new computer if I want to run CS4 at the same time as my modeling programs?

I do usually have to restart my computer after playing with Second Life if I want to use Zbrush--someone told me that's an OpenGL thing. Will it be the same way with CS4?

Going with 1GB cards is a good idea going forward, but your 8800's are fine. No need to upgrade just yet. I've had no problems whatsoever after upgrading my OS to 64-bit. SL, Maya, and CS4 are all happy together. None seem to care in the slightest whether the others are running or not.

Vista 64 seems to do a great job of divvying up resources between the programs, keeping any two from trying to grab the same resources at the same time. XP was failing miserably in that department.



Dual boot is a good idea. I haven't set mine up for that yet myself, but I do plan to. I've got a few programs I still need (like my Palm Treo Hotsync), which are 32-bit only.



It's not bad at all. I've used it on both 32-bit and 64-bit Vista, and it's good on both. It's better, on 64-bit, of course, since there's more RAM available to the machine. That said, frame rates are slightly lower under Vista, even with 64-bit, than under XP. There's probably no way around that, since Vista doesn't handle Open GL the same way XP does. But the difference is negligible. Don't worry about it.



I'm doing just fine with 4, but I do plan on upgrading to 8 within the next few days. RAM is so cheap, there's no reason not to. With RAM, you should always get as much as your system can support.

Vista Ultimate 64-bit can utilize up to 128GB of RAM, just so you know. Most common motherboards these days only support up to 8GB, though.



That's odd. What are the symptoms if you try to run Zbrush without rebooting first?

What nVidia drivers are you running (assuming you've got an nVidia graphics card)? If it's anything other than 175.19, try removing what you've got with Driver Cleaner, and then cleanly installing 175.19.


It might be. Download the demo and experiment with it. It's the only way to know.

You're right, I really need to start playing with the demo. I think I've been putting it off because I know full well it will be one more thing I need to make time to study!

I'm going to go ahead and expose myself as the computer illiterate I am--I have the NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT, and the nv4_disp.nll driver. But poking about on the Nvidia driver download page, I couldn't find out if that was the latest driver or not.

Right now, if I use SL or play a 3D graphics game (I've become addicted to Jetpack Brontosaurus) then try to use Zbrush, it frequently crashes, usually 1.76 seconds before I was going to save my work. To ensure stability, I restart before working with the program. I can run CS2 Photoshop without a problem at the same time, however.

Nvidia released 180.48 on wednesday has anyone tried it and had any luck with it? I tried it lost my 2nd monitor and still had the flickering and disappearing image. I was able to finally get 175.19 to recognise my 2nd monitor and run sl with CS4 open if I turn off the open GL. I was on the phone for an hour with Adobe they have no solution yet.

I did read someone suggesting putting a 2nd set of the open gl drivers in how would I do that?

Ouch, sorry to hear you're having so much trouble, Sparkle. I hate to keep repeating the same line, but all I can say is I've had zero problems since upgrading to 64-bit. (I even managed to find a work-around so I can sync my Treo without having to dual boot!)

Actually, I should take that back. I did manage to pit SL and Maya in a battle royale deathmatch the other day, seemingly over video resources. Before I could place a bet on the winner, though, the BSOD stepped into referee, and it was all over pretty quickly. The fight was deemed a draw, as both contenders were knocked out. Windows was promptly "shut down to prevent damage to your computer". Gotta love that BSOD, always looking out for my computer's well being. Hopefully neither party will demand a rematch.

I'm actually not sure whether it was a video problem or a RAM problem, but it hasn't happened before or since (knock on wood). In any case, I've had zero CS4 issues since the 64-bit upgrade. That's about the only recommendation I can make. Upgrade your OS. CS4 wants more resources than a 32-bit system can give it.

Plus, you get a nice bonus from the upgrade, anyway, if you do it. Unlike its 32-bit sibling, Vista 64-bit is actually a really good OS. It's rock solid. All around, my computer's been much happier since making the switch (that little Maya vs. SL bout notwithstanding).

Thanks Chosen I plan to upgrade to Vista but Im in the middle of the last 3 weeks of class and have several projects that need to be done for my final so I cann't take the system down till Im done I was hoping to find a temporary resolution till class ends.

One thing to note is that the latest drivers (Nvidia video) and second life... do NOT like each other very much., Not sure this helps or not but you may want to use a previous Nvidia graphics driver and see if this helps at all.

ah
Running CS4 w/SL no problems so far.
Also on a 64bit, I have not updated my NVidia either thou. I think I will hold off.

LL is actually made a change to the browser to try to remidy the issue ... but anyone with the lastest Nvidia drivers get to see people (them selvs included) completly black and featureless till they render properly.