Second Life Forums Archive - noob question: Maya

Xiggie Fizz

Coo coo for coco puffs

Join date: 16 Jun 2005

Posts: 8

07-15-2005 19:50

i wanted to get into creating clothes etc. i dont have poser, but i do have maya, which has so many options that its making my head spin. is there anyway to test out clothes/skins on maya, instead of poser? and if so, how? i can get the blank avatar from the site to show up.

also, os there any way to use your avatar as the model, enstead of the blank. or i pretty much have to wait till i upload.

any help/advise/tips would be great!

Strife Onizuka

Moonchild

Join date: 3 Mar 2004

Posts: 5,887

07-15-2005 20:27

The dicatomy of this situation is amusing at best.
For starters the cost of Poser is about $100
The cost of Maya 6.0 Unlimited about $7000

But it gets better, you state it yourself, you have almost no experience with Maya, and probably any other software of this type or you would have figure out how to apply textures to the mesh.

So this leads me to ask: Why did you buy Maya? 7K is alot to spend for something you are not trained to use. And if you can spend that type of money why not shell out a bit more for Poser or a book on how to use Maya?

_____________________

Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river.
- Cyril Connolly

Without the political will to find common ground, the continual friction of tactic and counter tactic, only creates suspicion and hatred and vengeance, and perpetuates the cycle of violence.
- James Nachtwey

Xiggie Fizz

Coo coo for coco puffs

Join date: 16 Jun 2005

Posts: 8

07-15-2005 21:31

lol, yeah i guess that is funny. first i didnt buy it. (yeah sue me) if i werent a casual user i would go out and buy it. but as somone who wants to try making stuff for fun on for an online game, i wasnt going to purchase one.

and no, i have absolutly no experiense in 3d modeling. (thank you for belittling me)i am more of a traditional artist, w/decent photoshop skills. HENCE why im asking about appling textures and not how to build.

thanks for the "go find a book" advise.

Jeffrey Gomez

Cubed™

Join date: 11 Jun 2004

Posts: 3,522

07-15-2005 21:45

The bottom line here is please refrain from posting blatant requests for help when your copy of software isn't legitimate. These are official forums, and that sort of thing is considered a taboo.

If you're looking for *legal* alternatives that are free, I've posted several of them to the "Helpful Resources" page of the support wiki. There's also a link in my signature.

_____________________

---

Strife Onizuka

Moonchild

Join date: 3 Mar 2004

Posts: 5,887

07-15-2005 21:50

Not to mention there is a free version of Maya available. You shouldn't have brought up photoshop, that too is another peice of expensive software.

_____________________

Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river.
- Cyril Connolly

Without the political will to find common ground, the continual friction of tactic and counter tactic, only creates suspicion and hatred and vengeance, and perpetuates the cycle of violence.
- James Nachtwey

Xiggie Fizz

Coo coo for coco puffs

Join date: 16 Jun 2005

Posts: 8

07-15-2005 22:37

wo, i just wanted to know how to test clothing. i wouldnt have said how i got it if the guy didnt ask me why i have that instead of poser. i wasnt telling ppl to dl it nor offering it for free. i just had a question.

i wasnt being blatant at all. i asked a simple question. i believe this was basic question that would be easily answered.

and my photoshop is legal, thank you. (and i have legal painter too, incase your are keeping track)
the forum isnt a "helpful resource?"

Xiggie Fizz

Coo coo for coco puffs

Join date: 16 Jun 2005

Posts: 8

opps

07-15-2005 23:37

omg lol. i put down the wrong version, i have PLE. i was looking up how-tos, and was going through stuff for unlimited. omg im such a ditz. sorry for confusing you all.

Osgeld Barmy

Registered User

Join date: 22 Mar 2005

Posts: 3,336

07-16-2005 09:52

http://www.daz3d.com/

its simmilar to poser... and far as i know it will import sl's bvh files, if nothing else it will let you see clothing on a model .. and its free

Chosen Few

Alpha Channel Slave

Join date: 16 Jan 2004

Posts: 7,496

07-16-2005 10:36

Well, I hope it's true that you're using PLE, but in any case, here are some answers for you. I know you don't like "buy a book" type advice, as you put it, but the simple truth is these forums are not well suited to teaching Maya to the novice. If you were already somewhat fluent with Maya, it would be a simple matter of walking through a few steps with you, but since as you say, you are brand new to it, it would take many, many pages of explanation in a format like this to supply you with the necessary knowledge. So, here's what I'd suggest:

1. First follow the tutorials that came with Maya.
The tutorials that are included with Maya (and Maya PLE) are top notch. Alias has probably the best tutorial-writing staff of any company I've ever seen. I'd highly recommend going through the included tutorials from start to finish so that you can gain a working knowledge of all the basics of Maya, but at a minimum, you'll need to go through "Introduction", "Maya Basics", "Polygonal Modeling", "Rendering" (specifically, "Lesson Two: Shading Surfaces", and "Painting". This will take you a few days to a couple weeks, depending on how much time you want to devote to it each day. As you mentioned, Maya has literally thousands upon thousands of features. Even professionals who use it all day every day for a living don't have a working mastery of everything Maya can do (which is one reason it takes an army of artists to create things like the battle scenese and the creatuers in Lord of the Rings, which as you may know were done in Maya). By the way, you'll need to have the Maya document server installed and running on your machine in order to access the tutorials.

2. Working with the avatar models in Maya
After you have gone through the tutorials, then and only then, atempt the following steps. Trust me, you won't be able to follow this if you haven't educated yourself in the fundamentals of Maya first.

A. Import the OBJ's into Maya
The avatar mannequin files come not only in Poser format, but also in OBJ format. OBJ is a format designed by the makers of Maya, which can be read by a wide variety of 3D applications, including Maya. So, to bring an SL avatar into Maya, import the OBJ. To do this, you'll need to know how to use Maya's import options, and how to access the options menus for basic functions. It's a bit different (and better) than in any program you've likely used before.

B. Cut & weld the model properly
It's a good idea to break the avatar poly mesh into apropriate pieces, one each for the head, upper body, and lower body, in accordance with the way the texturing templates are laid out. Depending on how you imported the OBJ, it could be all one mesh, or it could be a bunch of individual patches for each body part (shoulder, forearm, etc.). To do this, you'll need to have a rudimentary understanding of Maya's polygon editing tools, and a pretty good understanding of how the UV maps on the 2D templates relate to the 3D model.

C. Shaders & Texturing
Apply your clothing or skin textures to the avatar model inside Maya. To do this, you'll need to know how to create and work with shaders, and how to tell Maya to display them in the viewer. It also helps if you have a good understanding of Maya's texture display options, lighting options, and model detail options. If you go with the defaults, your textures will look pretty bad in the viewer. They'll look good enough for things like testing seams, of course, but they won't be colored and lit like they are in SL unless you play with the settings. Oh, and by the way, use Lambert shaders for everything. The avatar models by default use Phong shaders. Phong's are shiny, and as we all know, avatars in SL cannot be shiny. Lamberts are matt, just like in SL.

D. Painting in Maya
If you want to paint directly on the model to create/eidt your clothing or skin textures, you'll need to know how to use Maya's 3D and 2D painting tools. Keep in mind these tools are nowhere near as powerful as Photoshop, but painting in 3D does make solving certain problems take a lot less time.

I think all the features I talked about here are available in PLE, but I can't be 100% certain. I've got a PLE 6 CD floating around here somewhere, but I'm sure you'll forgive me for not wanting to install it and test all this when I've already got Unlimited 6 installed on my computers. Anyway, good luck with all this. Maya is very easy to learn, but it takes a little time. There are no shortcuts with it. You either really learn it or you don't.

-Chosen

P.S. If you do want to buy a book, "Introducing Maya: 3D for Beginners" by Dariush Derkhshani is very good. The book itself is really easy to follow, not boring like an instruction manual, and it comes with Maya PLE and a whole bunch of scene files, training movies, and sample images. You can find it on the Alias website or at any major bookstore.

_____________________

.

Land now available for rent in Indigo. Low rates. Quiet, low-lag mainland sim with good neighbors. IM me in-world if you're interested.

Xiggie Fizz

Coo coo for coco puffs

Join date: 16 Jun 2005

Posts: 8

thanks!

07-16-2005 11:44

thanks Osgeld Barmy for the alt program. and Chosen Few thanks for all that info and the book recomendation. i had really thought that i was just missing a tab or somthing and it was just a few clicks question. :hitts head: i kept finding how use poser and not maya.

thanks again!

Jeffrey Gomez

Cubed™

Join date: 11 Jun 2004

Posts: 3,522

07-16-2005 11:55

From: Xiggie Fizz

the forum isnt a "helpful resource?"

Just let this be a lesson in "official" forums and legality.

Having used the Maya PLE myself, I can say that it's probably a bit too advanced for what you're wanting to do. However, there are several free programs I've listed on the Helpful Resources pages that have become "well-kept secrets."

Furthermore, chances are the PLE will not let you save certain files without adding a watermark.

1) Tattoo

Tattoo is a program built expressly for the purpose of painting on a 3D mesh. While simple, it allows for all kinds of saving and UV map tricks.

Tattoo is free for non-commercial purposes. If you find yourself wanting to sell stuff with it, please purchase a license.

http://www.terabit.nildram.co.uk/tattoo/

2) Blender

Blender is in many ways a Maya clone, built from the ground up. Totally free, it happens to be one of my favorite 3D programs.

http://www.blender.org/

You may also want to look at the official Linden templates in Photoshop, as they do a great job of explaining what goes where.

_____________________

---

noob question: Maya
Xiggie Fizz Coo coo for coco puffs Join date: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 8	07-15-2005 19:50 i wanted to get into creating clothes etc. i dont have poser, but i do have maya, which has so many options that its making my head spin. is there anyway to test out clothes/skins on maya, instead of poser? and if so, how? i can get the blank avatar from the site to show up. also, os there any way to use your avatar as the model, enstead of the blank. or i pretty much have to wait till i upload. any help/advise/tips would be great!
Strife Onizuka Moonchild Join date: 3 Mar 2004 Posts: 5,887	07-15-2005 20:27 The dicatomy of this situation is amusing at best. For starters the cost of Poser is about $100 The cost of Maya 6.0 Unlimited about $7000 But it gets better, you state it yourself, you have almost no experience with Maya, and probably any other software of this type or you would have figure out how to apply textures to the mesh. So this leads me to ask: Why did you buy Maya? 7K is alot to spend for something you are not trained to use. And if you can spend that type of money why not shell out a bit more for Poser or a book on how to use Maya? _____________________ Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river. - Cyril Connolly Without the political will to find common ground, the continual friction of tactic and counter tactic, only creates suspicion and hatred and vengeance, and perpetuates the cycle of violence. - James Nachtwey
Xiggie Fizz Coo coo for coco puffs Join date: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 8	07-15-2005 21:31 lol, yeah i guess that is funny. first i didnt buy it. (yeah sue me) if i werent a casual user i would go out and buy it. but as somone who wants to try making stuff for fun on for an online game, i wasnt going to purchase one. and no, i have absolutly no experiense in 3d modeling. (thank you for belittling me)i am more of a traditional artist, w/decent photoshop skills. HENCE why im asking about appling textures and not how to build. thanks for the "go find a book" advise.
Jeffrey Gomez Cubed™ Join date: 11 Jun 2004 Posts: 3,522	07-15-2005 21:45 The bottom line here is please refrain from posting blatant requests for help when your copy of software isn't legitimate. These are official forums, and that sort of thing is considered a taboo. If you're looking for legal alternatives that are free, I've posted several of them to the "Helpful Resources" page of the support wiki. There's also a link in my signature. _____________________ ---
Strife Onizuka Moonchild Join date: 3 Mar 2004 Posts: 5,887	07-15-2005 21:50 Not to mention there is a free version of Maya available. You shouldn't have brought up photoshop, that too is another peice of expensive software. _____________________ Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river. - Cyril Connolly Without the political will to find common ground, the continual friction of tactic and counter tactic, only creates suspicion and hatred and vengeance, and perpetuates the cycle of violence. - James Nachtwey
Xiggie Fizz Coo coo for coco puffs Join date: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 8	07-15-2005 22:37 wo, i just wanted to know how to test clothing. i wouldnt have said how i got it if the guy didnt ask me why i have that instead of poser. i wasnt telling ppl to dl it nor offering it for free. i just had a question. i wasnt being blatant at all. i asked a simple question. i believe this was basic question that would be easily answered. and my photoshop is legal, thank you. (and i have legal painter too, incase your are keeping track) the forum isnt a "helpful resource?"
Xiggie Fizz Coo coo for coco puffs Join date: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 8	opps 07-15-2005 23:37 omg lol. i put down the wrong version, i have PLE. i was looking up how-tos, and was going through stuff for unlimited. omg im such a ditz. sorry for confusing you all.
Osgeld Barmy Registered User Join date: 22 Mar 2005 Posts: 3,336	07-16-2005 09:52 http://www.daz3d.com/ its simmilar to poser... and far as i know it will import sl's bvh files, if nothing else it will let you see clothing on a model .. and its free
Chosen Few Alpha Channel Slave Join date: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 7,496	07-16-2005 10:36 Well, I hope it's true that you're using PLE, but in any case, here are some answers for you. I know you don't like "buy a book" type advice, as you put it, but the simple truth is these forums are not well suited to teaching Maya to the novice. If you were already somewhat fluent with Maya, it would be a simple matter of walking through a few steps with you, but since as you say, you are brand new to it, it would take many, many pages of explanation in a format like this to supply you with the necessary knowledge. So, here's what I'd suggest: 1. First follow the tutorials that came with Maya. The tutorials that are included with Maya (and Maya PLE) are top notch. Alias has probably the best tutorial-writing staff of any company I've ever seen. I'd highly recommend going through the included tutorials from start to finish so that you can gain a working knowledge of all the basics of Maya, but at a minimum, you'll need to go through "Introduction", "Maya Basics", "Polygonal Modeling", "Rendering" (specifically, "Lesson Two: Shading Surfaces", and "Painting". This will take you a few days to a couple weeks, depending on how much time you want to devote to it each day. As you mentioned, Maya has literally thousands upon thousands of features. Even professionals who use it all day every day for a living don't have a working mastery of everything Maya can do (which is one reason it takes an army of artists to create things like the battle scenese and the creatuers in Lord of the Rings, which as you may know were done in Maya). By the way, you'll need to have the Maya document server installed and running on your machine in order to access the tutorials. 2. Working with the avatar models in Maya After you have gone through the tutorials, then and only then, atempt the following steps. Trust me, you won't be able to follow this if you haven't educated yourself in the fundamentals of Maya first. A. Import the OBJ's into Maya The avatar mannequin files come not only in Poser format, but also in OBJ format. OBJ is a format designed by the makers of Maya, which can be read by a wide variety of 3D applications, including Maya. So, to bring an SL avatar into Maya, import the OBJ. To do this, you'll need to know how to use Maya's import options, and how to access the options menus for basic functions. It's a bit different (and better) than in any program you've likely used before. B. Cut & weld the model properly It's a good idea to break the avatar poly mesh into apropriate pieces, one each for the head, upper body, and lower body, in accordance with the way the texturing templates are laid out. Depending on how you imported the OBJ, it could be all one mesh, or it could be a bunch of individual patches for each body part (shoulder, forearm, etc.). To do this, you'll need to have a rudimentary understanding of Maya's polygon editing tools, and a pretty good understanding of how the UV maps on the 2D templates relate to the 3D model. C. Shaders & Texturing Apply your clothing or skin textures to the avatar model inside Maya. To do this, you'll need to know how to create and work with shaders, and how to tell Maya to display them in the viewer. It also helps if you have a good understanding of Maya's texture display options, lighting options, and model detail options. If you go with the defaults, your textures will look pretty bad in the viewer. They'll look good enough for things like testing seams, of course, but they won't be colored and lit like they are in SL unless you play with the settings. Oh, and by the way, use Lambert shaders for everything. The avatar models by default use Phong shaders. Phong's are shiny, and as we all know, avatars in SL cannot be shiny. Lamberts are matt, just like in SL. D. Painting in Maya If you want to paint directly on the model to create/eidt your clothing or skin textures, you'll need to know how to use Maya's 3D and 2D painting tools. Keep in mind these tools are nowhere near as powerful as Photoshop, but painting in 3D does make solving certain problems take a lot less time. I think all the features I talked about here are available in PLE, but I can't be 100% certain. I've got a PLE 6 CD floating around here somewhere, but I'm sure you'll forgive me for not wanting to install it and test all this when I've already got Unlimited 6 installed on my computers. Anyway, good luck with all this. Maya is very easy to learn, but it takes a little time. There are no shortcuts with it. You either really learn it or you don't. -Chosen P.S. If you do want to buy a book, "Introducing Maya: 3D for Beginners" by Dariush Derkhshani is very good. The book itself is really easy to follow, not boring like an instruction manual, and it comes with Maya PLE and a whole bunch of scene files, training movies, and sample images. You can find it on the Alias website or at any major bookstore. _____________________ . Land now available for rent in Indigo. Low rates. Quiet, low-lag mainland sim with good neighbors. IM me in-world if you're interested.
Xiggie Fizz Coo coo for coco puffs Join date: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 8	thanks! 07-16-2005 11:44 thanks Osgeld Barmy for the alt program. and Chosen Few thanks for all that info and the book recomendation. i had really thought that i was just missing a tab or somthing and it was just a few clicks question. :hitts head: i kept finding how use poser and not maya. thanks again!
Jeffrey Gomez Cubed™ Join date: 11 Jun 2004 Posts: 3,522	07-16-2005 11:55 From: Xiggie Fizz the forum isnt a "helpful resource?" Just let this be a lesson in "official" forums and legality. Having used the Maya PLE myself, I can say that it's probably a bit too advanced for what you're wanting to do. However, there are several free programs I've listed on the Helpful Resources pages that have become "well-kept secrets." Furthermore, chances are the PLE will not let you save certain files without adding a watermark. 1) Tattoo Tattoo is a program built expressly for the purpose of painting on a 3D mesh. While simple, it allows for all kinds of saving and UV map tricks. Tattoo is free for non-commercial purposes. If you find yourself wanting to sell stuff with it, please purchase a license. http://www.terabit.nildram.co.uk/tattoo/ 2) Blender Blender is in many ways a Maya clone, built from the ground up. Totally free, it happens to be one of my favorite 3D programs. http://www.blender.org/ You may also want to look at the official Linden templates in Photoshop, as they do a great job of explaining what goes where. _____________________ ---

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noob question: Maya