256x256 MUCH better to use than 512x512 ?

I guess I already know the answer to this one, but thought I'd ask anyway

You never know some tech wizzes out there may be able to offer some interesting info.

Recently been making a few basic items (sometimes copying something I bought, but trying to make it better)

What I've seen on some poor quality (cheap) items is often the creator has used some REALLY tacky russich low quality textures (guess it was all they could find at the time)

So, I try to make something that looks nicer and has better textures, thanks to hunting around the net, taking a photo in RL myself combined with some photoshop tweaking.

But.......... (and here's the problem)

I'm finding myself using textures that (in reality) are too high for the job. Just because I'm being fussy, looking WAY TOO CLOSE to the object I've made, and can see how bad the new item looks against the original image.

I'm of course, staying away from 1024x1024 as that's a given no no (unless it was a clump of smaller tiled images in one lump, or I did really need a BIG image)

However I find I'm using 512x512 (when perhaps 256x256 would do) and 256 with 128 would do.

Example. Made a Dishwasher and had no "inside a dishwaher" photo, so I loaded mine up at home, took a photo, sorted it out in Photoshop and loaded it in-world at 512x512.

Yes, looks fine and can zoom in quite well and see detail, but (apart from me) who is gonna do that?

From a normal distance 256x256 would have done.

the same goes for the front of it.

Other trial was a small box of ground coffee. Scanned in 6 RL sides of the box, uploaded the front at 256x256 and the top/bottom/sides at 256x128

But the item is only about 5 inches high on the kitchen worktop, and only by zooming in can you see detail.

I think having the 3D SpaceNavigator controller does not help as it means I can zoom around close very easy when building things.

Worst one I think was the lid of a laptop (nice and shiney with a logo on the lid) Uploaded at 512x512 !!! Again, 256 would have been plenty (from normal distance) but it looks so much better at 512x512.

I know I'm doing wrong !!!! Perhaps I shoud make a high quality and low quality (texture) version?

But I suppose my original question....... Just how bad are 512x512 textures to use a lot of the time?

I'd not use them for silly things, and I'll TRY to keep sizes down, but when you have small writing, or a keyboard of a laptop, or anything with detail, it's hard to create siomething that looks horrid when you look close (even if hardly anyone apart from you is going to look close!)

The best rule of thumb is to consider how close people will normally be to the object when they are looking at it, and what level of detail is required at that distance. Then consider how important, if at all, it will be for someone to zoom in close and be able to see fine details.

I recall one gun maker that once had me create custom textures for shell casings. Textures detailed enough that you could see the primer and the text stamped on the butt of the shell casing, and read the text clearly. Did he really "need" a 256 x 256 or 512 x 512 texture for the end of a 9 mm shell casing, that would be used on a temp-on-rez item that would fly out of the gun and vanish in a minute? No, of course not. Most people would not bother to look at the shell casings at all, much less be able to get a close look before the temp-rez item vanished. But I have to admit, they did look spiffy while they were there. It mattered to the maker, and possibly to future owners of the gun.

On the other hand, some items, like your coffee box, sort of invite one to look more closely, when you're sitting in the kitchen with nothing better to do. So you probably want at least enough detail for the main text on its label to be legible, when it fills maybe 1/4 of the screen.

Thanks.

You are 100% right of course, and I already know the answer, so perhaps I was just thinking out loud....

As you say:

1: If people are not going to look close at it, then don't worry about it.

2: If people ARE lightly to study it in detail (perhaps like a photo of a face or writing etc) then use more detail.

3: Or if it's just for you, you are fussy and love things looking detailed, then why not

I guess, really my question WAS about the tech sides of the loading 512 textures (as opposed to 256 textures put on things)

If for example a 512 texture was "the norm" so to speak and there was negligable loading time difference (from a tech point of view) then why not.

But, I will of course deff try and use the lowest I can.

On this front...........

Any perhaps a secondary question..............

Is there anyway to can see what a texture WOULD look like in world (after uploading with their Jpeg2000 compression etc etc) without actually having to upload to SL ?

Some offline viewer or something?

Use the Preview Grid - doesn't cost to upload there

For someone who does not know what you are talking about

Can you explain further.....

Thanks.

Check it out: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Preview_Grid

it's the Beta grid called Preview Grid Viewers on this page:
http://secondlife.com/support/downloads.php

Use that to upload textures to see how they look work extra, SL give you play play money to do this and it isn't detracted from your live account in the 'real' SL.

Okay, along this vain...for all you that do clothing textures. What do you use normally for texture size? 512? Or, less? How does 128 or 256 effect shadows and highlights?

512 x 512. Clothing textures that are smaller than that usually look out of focus and lack the level of definition that makes details like stitching, minor wrinkles, and whatnot clear enough to see. I'm not exactly vain, but I do like to wear clothes that look good.

Clothes are a special case because they're composited into a baked texture.

Per an ancient comment from Kelly Linden, they're baked to 512x512. You should probably not use textures smaller than that when making clothes.

http://blog.secondlife.com/2006/09/18/getting-technical-baked-avatar-textures/#comment-3952

Sorry if this comes across as an attack against you, but hearing about this sort of texture abuse is a bit upsetting to me. People using textures that are too large is a major contributor to all the lag in SL. In your example, now anyone in the vicinity of that gun wielder would have to put up with a large chunk of video memory being eaten up (and if they happen to already be close to the limit on their videocard, this would result in painfully slow churning of memory) without there being any appreciable improvement to the visual quality of the scene. If the creators of a few of the other nearby items were similarly irresponsible, all the texture memory used would add up to lots of lag for no good reason.

Using larger textures than you actually need is irresponsible.

LOL...sorry...looks like I used the wrong "vain, vane, vein"...hopefully no one took it as an insult...just my poor ragged mind today....anyway...thanks for the info Rolig.

And, thanks for the info Dekka on "how to" get to the beta/preview grid. Says it is closed when you go to downloads in the SL website yet ppl have kept referring to it but never giving the particulars how to get there.

Except where I posted the wiki link above. The info is hidden under the "How do I log in to Aditi?" section.

No offense taken. I agree that it was a much too large texture size for the purpose, which is why I used that as an example. I told him they were too detailed, when he requested the textutres. But he insisted that he at least wanted to try it with the detailed textures.

I don't know if that gun ever even got to the market, or if he just started and never finished it. After he got the textures and paid for them, I don't recall ever hearing from him again. Can't even recall his name now, and never did know his store's name.

Thanks for the link, even though it says:

The Preview Grid viewer is not available at this time.

A special viewer is no longer needed; the below post explains how to get in. I have tested and it works.
IMPORTANT: Make a note to switch the grid back to "Agni" to log back in to the main grid.

Thanks.

Just tried that, and won't log me on (check username/password)

Perhaps now I've tried I will get added later?

It's the same UserName/Password you always use. You're just signing on to an alternative grid. If you can get onto the standard grid, you ought to be able to get onto Beta.

I use as small textures as possible. I _almost never_ use 1024x1024 textures; the maximum I go is 512x512, and that is just for large structural details like walls and floors.

Large textures create lag in two ways:
1) They use up more video memory, which translates to renderlag (less framerates).
2) They take longer to download, slowing down the loading of everything around them.

I always upload two or sometimes three versions of textures: 512x512 (or similar pixelcount), 256x256, and 128x128 (be sure that lossless is unchecked!). Often I'll find that the visual difference between 1024x1024 and 512x512, or 512x512 and 256x256, is negligible; certainly not enough to justify a FOUR FOLD INCREASE IN FILE SIZE AND LOADING TIME.

Texture size isn't the only important thing, but what you do with them. Repeating the same textures, and the same elements in a build makes for efficient, quick-loading stuff. Using the hell out of one detailed 1024x1024 texture, using offsets and repeats to choose different areas, would be more efficient than using many more 512x512's only used once.

Nope, just tried again to log into "Aditi" the Beta Test Grid.

when logging in, an error box pops up saying:

Login failed:
Please make sure your caps lock key if off and that you have the correct account name and password.


So, it won't let me on.

Bummer. SL is SO fickle.

If you've changed your password, try using the older ones.

Ah that was it.

I changed password quite a few months ago, and it was my old one that worked.

What's the deal on this Beta Grid?

Just been on it for the 1st time.

Do people actually own parts of it (long term)?

Or is it just public sandbox areas and Linden Stuff?

There seems to be a lot of BIG complex buildings for them to dissapear after a few hours.

Can someone give me a little overview?

Thanks

it's a mirror site, they have taken a area of SL or sometimes private island owners request to be on it and they take a snap shot. the grid is then only updated when a new snap shot is taken.

this only causes a few problems for some people, say you are a builder, if they haven't taken a snap shot for 3 months everything in your inventory that is built with prims less than three months old will not be on the Beta Grid. also applies to people joining SL, if you were less than three months old, it doesn't know your in SL yet.