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Prim-Based Costuming Tips?

Zero Grace
Homunculus
Join date: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 237
05-07-2004 12:10
I know how to build complex objects. My problem is attaching irregular objects to an avatar in matching or mirroring pairs.

- Is there a "standard" way in which objects attach themselves, i.e. always along a certain axis? I am already aware that the last prim linked in a group becomes the point of attachment. It’s the orientation of that prim when attached that I'm wondering about.

- During editing and attachment, is there a way to lock my avatar into standing straight, with outstretched arms and legs? Some sort of practical, static position for attaching and tweaking objects?

- Does anyone have a method for reflecting (flipping via mirroring) an object along a specified global or local axis. I know it could be probably done via mathematics (and entering data into the rotation fields), but I'm terrible at math.

Here's some insight into my building/attaching process, maybe someone can suggest some better methods:
So, I build something, say a shoulder-pad.
Then I drop it in my avatar's clothing folder and attach it to the av's right shoulder. I have to tweak it and all that, but eventually get the size and orientation I desire.
Then I detach my shoulder pad, and think to myself "Gosh, I'd like a matching shoulder pad." And herein lies the problem: I then have to mirror the shoulder pad, which is tricky because it might be irregularly-shaped with multiple objects at multiple angles. I end up eyeballing most of the second shoulder-pad, which is fine but sloppy (I prefer a perfect match).
So, if this wasn't stupid enough, I then go to attach this second shoulder pad to the opposite shoulder. First of all, my avatar is normally slouching on the right or left foot, so both shoulders are not straight. Then I have to do all the positioning and tweaking again, except that (as far as I know) you can't do that with numerical precision while the object is attached. I have to make sure that this second shoulder pad mirrors the first, you know, so they're like a matching pair. Again—eyeballed, imprecise.

I had the fortune of seeing some excellent armour done up by Marcos Fonzarelli, and I just don't understand how he gets such apparent precision. Does he eyeball better?
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Zero Grace, agent of Tony Walsh
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Julian Fate
80's Pop Star
Join date: 19 Oct 2003
Posts: 1,020
05-07-2004 12:15
To stand still, the best way is to get an animator and use "turn_180". It's not perfect but it's the best we have so far.
Zero Grace
Homunculus
Join date: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 237
05-07-2004 12:20
From: someone
Originally posted by Julian Fate
To stand still, the best way is to get an animator and use "turn_180". It's not perfect but it's the best we have so far.
Julian, what's an animator? Sorry, I'm still green, and there's a lot I don't know :)
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Zero Grace, agent of Tony Walsh
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Lumiere Noir
Ivory Tower Dweller
Join date: 25 Dec 2003
Posts: 212
05-07-2004 12:50
Zero,

It can be a difficult, painstaking process to mirror an object in SL. I make prim-based wings a fair amount. It can take me fifteen minutes to half an hour to get one side of a pair of wings 'right.' Then it might take me an hour or two to be satisfied with the other side of the pair.

I don't know what to tell you to be helpful, I find that I have to work on a prim-by-prim basis to mirror an object. I sometimes do use a calculator to get recriphocal angles (the -180 through 180 range of rotation with zero as its centerpoint can be a counterintuitive thing to grasp). A week or two ago I was making a grasshoper, and I started to notice a few of the ways some things work when trying to mirror the legs from one side to the other.

This would be a very good thing to treat in the Ivory Tower Library of Primitives (Noyo 180, 180 ish) if I can think of a good way to visually lay out the information.

Lumi
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Arito Cotton
Still Addicted
Join date: 25 Aug 2003
Posts: 131
Re: Prim-Based Costuming Tips?
05-07-2004 12:57
From: someone
- Is there a "standard" way in which objects attach themselves, i.e. always along a certain axis?


It seems, from my experience, that objects are attached differently based on the body area they are attached to.

From: someone
- During editing and attachment, is there a way to lock my avatar into standing straight, with outstretched arms and legs?


/13/75/10004/1.html

Just put that script in an object, then attach the object to yourself (on a location you wouldn't normally use for attachments).

Type "freeze" to lock your avatar. Type "unfreeze" to return to normal. It's not perfect, but it helps immensely.

From: someone
- Does anyone have a method for reflecting (flipping via mirroring) an object along a specified global or local axis.


There are methods of mirroring an object along an axis, but they take a little bit of time and fiddling. It's normally easier to work on both the regular and the mirrored copies of your object at the same time. Duplicate your rotations on each side as you make them. Use "Snap to Grid" a lot, with a small grid size.
Julian Fate
80's Pop Star
Join date: 19 Oct 2003
Posts: 1,020
05-07-2004 13:18
An animator is a scripted attachment that allows you to use any of the available animations, singly or in combination, whether they are available through normal gestures or not. You might hear them referred to as nipple rings because of the old standard form. Put this script in a prim and attach it. The usage is to say "anim <animation name>" to start, "stop" to stop the most current animation, and "stop all" to stop multiple animations (this is slow).

So to use turn_180, the animation we use when we enter the appearance editor, attach your animator and say "anim turn_180".

The script is a little old by now but it works.
Zero Grace
Homunculus
Join date: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 237
05-07-2004 13:37
Thanks everyone for the replies :) Very helpful!

Nipple rings? Eeeeeeeek.
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Marcos Fonzarelli
You are not Marcos
Join date: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 748
05-07-2004 13:39
Is there a name for the pose your av takes when you go into Appearance mode?

From: someone
Originally posted by Zero Grace
I had the fortune of seeing some excellent armour done up by Marcos Fonzarelli, and I just don't understand how he gets such apparent precision. Does he eyeball better?


Er... well, yeah. :cool:
Zero Grace
Homunculus
Join date: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 237
05-07-2004 13:51
I was afraid of that :)
I'm sure we all wish there was a better way to line stuff up than the eyeball method. Now I know there isn't (tips and stuff excepted) :)
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Zero Grace, agent of Tony Walsh
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Julian Fate
80's Pop Star
Join date: 19 Oct 2003
Posts: 1,020
05-07-2004 14:04
It gets easier with practice, if that makes you feel better.

I suspect when we get the ability to make custom animations we can make "null" animation poses that will finally freeze us in place with no idle animation or "breathing". Then we can pose however we need and build around ourselves.
Lumiere Noir
Ivory Tower Dweller
Join date: 25 Dec 2003
Posts: 212
05-07-2004 14:19
I've made a lot of avatars and I've built a lot of buildings, vehicles and objects and I contend that it's a lot more difficult to build a good avatar, not to mention a lot more time consuming.

I love building avatars however, I find it very rewarding and satisfying.

Build it, give a friend a copy to see what it looks like from other viewpoints, live with it for a few days and constantly tweek.

I don't think any of my avatars are really finished, they're at various stages of completion. I have such a backlog anyway that I don't have the luxury to make them over again :-)


Keep at it, Zero, it takes patience and determination and it's one of the funnest things to do inworld.

Lumi
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Nephilaine Protagonist
PixelSlinger
Join date: 22 Jul 2003
Posts: 1,693
05-08-2004 22:06
hmm, i am not 100% certain of this, but isnt there an option in the debug menu to show the attatchment points?

i'll look into it and post back :)
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Azelda Garcia
Azelda Garcia
Join date: 3 Nov 2003
Posts: 819
05-08-2004 22:46
I think being able to mirror automatically is an important functionality. It's built-in to 3ds max, and trivial to use.

If we had llGetPrimitiveParameter, we could script mirroring fairly easily.

There's a thread here to request this feature:

/13/a8/13673/1.html

So be sure to bump it!

Azelda
CrazyMonkey Feaver
Monkey Guy
Join date: 1 Jul 2003
Posts: 201
hmm
05-09-2004 10:24
It is possible to make it perfect math wise.. not with the attachment point though, but with the prims themselves.. but its pretty hard to explain.. You have to write down the point where you want it mirrored, then basically figure out offsets.. But you only move prims on the axis you want to mirror.. And yes, you do have to do for each piece(unlinked), lol.. say you want to mirror on the x axis. and its x axis is 100, and you decide you want to mirror at 101.. your offset would be 1, so you position of the mirrored piece would be 102.. that part isn't so bad. but then you have to mirror the rotations.. I wound up getting it to do that be flipping the sign's of certain axis, what ones depend on what axis you rmirroring.(I cant remember which).. am sure you also could use a script to mirror rotation on a certain axes.. now that I think about it, a script could prolly be used to do almost the whole thing..
but anyway, I hope this helps a little.
Tiger Crossing
The Prim Maker
Join date: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 1,560
05-10-2004 08:53
My Mirrorator will be for sale in the next week or so. Still adding features. :)
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Zero Grace
Homunculus
Join date: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 237
05-10-2004 15:51
Tiger, can't wait. Thanks for working on this. I hope you make it affordable :)
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Zero Grace, agent of Tony Walsh
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