Second Life Forums Archive

Rayne Ghia

Registered User

Join date: 16 Sep 2005

Posts: 28

03-20-2006 13:16

Just wondering what the average filesize of a texture should be.
I've been trying mine at 1024x1024 (4meg) so i can get maximum detail on my outfits, and I should probably drop them down to 512x512, but what does everyone elses filesize (not RESxRES but size as in megs) come to?

Ordinal Malaprop

really very ordinary

Join date: 9 Sep 2005

Posts: 4,607

03-20-2006 13:28

SL converts TGAs to store as JPEG2000s, so the filesize before upload is not a guide to how long it will take to load it. A very complex or random texture will take more room to store and more time to load.

I almost never go beyond 512x512 personally, and try to keep to 256x256 or less. It mostly depends on how complex the texture is, but I'll cap it at 512 for most purposes unless it's meant to be put on something absolutely enormous at 1x1 scale.

I wouldn't put a 1024x1024 on clothing - nobody's going to notice the difference between that and a 512x512, and it will lag people.

Eloise Pasteur

Curious Individual

Join date: 14 Jul 2004

Posts: 1,952

03-21-2006 02:47

Filesizes are a function of resolution and bits per pixel.

1024X1024X4 gives you 4MB for example.

256X256X4 gives you 1/4MB.

In essence, working on the textures big and reducing to a suitable size is the most commonly used thing for designers.

There *may* be situations were you can justify a larger texture, but as a rule of thumb there's rarely any need for bigger than 512 X 512 (for clothes etc.) and for other textures you might not need to be bigger than 32X32 (the smallest you can load into SL) - depending on exactly what's required.

Every texture has to streamed to everyone that sees it after all. Although the files are reconverted internally larger originals still produce larger internal textures, and that's more data to stream, slower loading, more lag and more people upset, not wearing your clothes, avoiding your sim or whatever.

Reitsuki Kojima

Witchhunter

Join date: 27 Jan 2004

Posts: 5,328

03-21-2006 02:49

Actually, I would strongly suggest you do NOT use a 1024x1024 texture on upload for clothing. A deliberate resize in photoshop or PSP using bicubic or per-pixel resampling will look better than whatever method SL uses to resize textures for the avatar.

_____________________

I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.

Rev Eponym

21st Century Schizoid Man

Join date: 28 Feb 2006

Posts: 21

03-21-2006 08:37

This is why forums are invaluable. I was getting on to ask almost the same question, and here are the exact answers I expected.

I have been looking around at some of the higher-quality clothing and skins in SL, and based on the templates available from Robin Wood and others, I expected that some might be doing 1024x1024's. But I thought this might be a bad idea, judging from the lag my Resident friends and I experience with our own clothing.

As I start my first real clothing projects, I'll probably work at 1024 and size down to 512, which always helps to 'tighten up' a 3D texture. Thanks, everyone.

Ceera Murakami

Texture Artist / Builder

Join date: 9 Sep 2005

Posts: 7,750

03-21-2006 09:39

I am a texture artist and clothing designer. As a rule, I design my textures at 1024x1024, or perhaps at 2048x2048 if I want a lot of detail. Then I resize it in Photoshop, down to 512x512 or 256x256 in most cases, save that .tga, and import it. As stated, 512x512 is plenty for detailed clothing, especially if the art was reduced from a larger scale.

The only time I would import a texture at 1024x1024 or 1024x512 is for a highly detailed wall texture, where I expect the user to place just one repetition along the entire length or height of a 10 M prim.

Depending on the texture, I may import it in other aspect ratios that are 32, 64, 128, 256, or 512 on one direction or the other, doing the rescaling in Photoshop before importing it.

Once in a while, that still results in the aspect ratio being changed on import! Even when the pixel counts are exact before saving! I imported some a few days ago where the 512x256 textures came in rectangular, while 256x512 textures got streached and became square!

In fact, come to think of it, I think that ANY time the width is less than the height, SL is importing it with the height dimension as the final form in both directions. O^o I'll have to check that!

_____________________

Sorry, LL won't let me tell you where I sell my textures and where I offer my services as a sim builder. Ask me in-world.

Kensuke Leviathan

Wandering fox

Join date: 11 Dec 2002

Posts: 127

03-21-2006 10:54

I wouldn't recommend using 1024x1024 textures for clothing, atleast once you import it, the max SL can display a texture on the avatar model is 512x512 so your only subjecting the texture to SL scaling engine which can lead to details getting lost in the noise. As a general rule for all texturing you should work in the resolution that you'll be outputting in, if your going to output to 512x512 work in that, photoshop and PSP are wonderful apps but can be very stupid when it comes to resampling, as an artist you know what looks right, photoshop does not.

_____________________

_________________

":> wark wark"

Persephone Phoenix

loving laptopvideo2go.com

Join date: 5 Nov 2004

Posts: 1,012

03-21-2006 11:39

I have seen the work of some designers take exceedingly long to rez. I have often suspected if this is because they are using a 1024x1024 file size. Would it have that effect? And wouldn't it also cause lag?

_____________________

Events are everyone's business.

Robin Sojourner

Registered User

Join date: 16 Sep 2004

Posts: 1,080

03-21-2006 12:04

My templates are 1024x1024 because, as several others have said, it's a really good idea to work at that size (or larger,) and reduce the size before importing to SL. Among other things, it makes things like straps and necklines a lot easier to match across the seams.

But I never meant to imply that clothing should be imported into SL that large. In fact, I've run some tests that would seem to show that SL resizes lots of things when you import. Clothing seems to be resized to 512x512.

Myrrh Massiel sent me some test results that would imply that something odd happens to textures that are loaded at sizes smaller than 256 as well. At any rate, an image that is half black and half white gets very blurry when it's uploaded at 16x16. The blur, I'm told, becomes less pronounced as the upload dimensions increase, but doesn't become crisp until 256x256. I haven't had a chance to replicate these results, but anyone who does might want to try it.

But yeah, unless you need sharp lines for some reason, the general rule of thumb is the smaller the better. (And 1024x1024 really is best reserved for 1 rep. on 10x10 m. prims.)

_____________________

Robin (Sojourner) Wood
www.robinwood.com

"Second Life ... is an Internet-based virtual world ... and a libertarian anarchy..." Wikipedia

Dianne Mechanique

Back from the Dead

Join date: 28 Mar 2005

Posts: 2,648

03-21-2006 12:22

From: Ceera Murakami

... Depending on the texture, I may import it in other aspect ratios that are 32, 64, 128, 256, or 512 on one direction or the other, doing the rescaling in Photoshop before importing it.

Once in a while, that still results in the aspect ratio being changed on import! Even when the pixel counts are exact before saving! I imported some a few days ago where the 512x256 textures came in rectangular, while 256x512 textures got streached and became square! ...

A good trick to get around this is to put multiple textures on one 512x512 square.

If you are texturing an object that needs a top, bottom, sides, and edge texture (and some of these are narrow strips), you can sometimes put them all on one 512 square and use offsets to align the difference faces in the right places.

It takes some figuring and a calculator to figure the offsets, but they load faster take up less space in your inventory, and all have the exact same palette.

Conversely, it's also sometimes a good idea if you have an object made up of multiple prims to make a single texture (512x512) and use offsets to apply the right pieces of it to the prims that make up the object or wall.

Again, it loads faster, uses less resources, costs less and even looks better during the ever lengthening "Tron" phase (loading textures) as it hides the seams in the prims even then.

_____________________

.
black
art furniture & classic clothing
===================
Black in Neufreistadt
Black @ ONE
Black @ www.SLBoutique.com

.

Chosen Few

Alpha Channel Slave

Join date: 16 Jan 2004

Posts: 7,496

03-21-2006 12:34

From: Ceera Murakami

I imported some a few days ago where the 512x256 textures came in rectangular, while 256x512 textures got streached and became square!

Are you absolutely certain that that's what happened? Don't trust the viewer window. It rarely shows things the right size. Upload a 32x32, for example, and the viewer will show it as 64x32. The actual texture is still 32x32 though, as can easily be confirmed by the texture console (ctrl-alt-D turns on Debug Menu, then ctrl-shift-3 turns on texture console).

I'd be willing to be that if you apply that 256x512 of yours to a prim and then check the size with the texture console, it would read as 256x512. I've uploaded plenty of tall textures before and they work just fine, regardless of whether or not they look right in that fracked up viewer pane.

_____________________

.

Land now available for rent in Indigo. Low rates. Quiet, low-lag mainland sim with good neighbors. IM me in-world if you're interested.

Strife Onizuka

Moonchild

Join date: 3 Mar 2004

Posts: 5,887

03-21-2006 13:02

I'll speak to file sizes.

Images that are
512x512 are about 30 -> 120 KB
1024x1024 are about 100 -> 500 KB

If you make an image bigger (like enlarging 512x512 to 1024x1024) the change of compressed size will be minimal because of how JPEG2000 works. But if it's better to keep your images smaller, as they will use less video memory.

_____________________

Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river.
- Cyril Connolly

Without the political will to find common ground, the continual friction of tactic and counter tactic, only creates suspicion and hatred and vengeance, and perpetuates the cycle of violence.
- James Nachtwey

Kaboom Pow

Registered User

Join date: 28 Nov 2005

Posts: 81

03-21-2006 13:09

From: Dianne Mechanique

A good trick to get around this is to put multiple textures on one 512x512 square.

If you are texturing an object that needs a top, bottom, sides, and edge texture (and some of these are narrow strips), you can sometimes put them all on one 512 square and use offsets to align the difference faces in the right places....

Brilliant idea Dianne!

Ceera Murakami

Texture Artist / Builder

Join date: 9 Sep 2005

Posts: 7,750

03-21-2006 13:59

Thank you Chosen! I was going by what the viewer displayed. I'll check what the debug panel that you mentioned.

I've done multiples on a single texture before, as well as multiple prims sharing a single texture. I put four sign textures on a single prim, and made a one-prim sign that could display any of the four versions by altering the offset of the texture. Very handy!

A friend of mine, Starchaser Webb, used the 'one texture across many prims' trick to make a 30 M wide, 25 M tall 'wall' that displayed a huge, alpha-mapped oak tree, using 9 prims to make the wall. He then used several of those to be the foliage for an even larger Oak tree that his home is built in. I think the final tree is 40 to 50 M tall, and the foliage ball is over 30 M in diameter.

_____________________

Sorry, LL won't let me tell you where I sell my textures and where I offer my services as a sim builder. Ask me in-world.

Eloise Pasteur

Curious Individual

Join date: 14 Jul 2004

Posts: 1,952

03-21-2006 15:36

Whilst speaking of sharp lines I made some single letter textures for a large (20m high X 60m long) sign. I'm pretty sure the original logos are all 32X32 pixels with a 28 pt letter on each one - can't find them right now. They're blown up to twice size on a 10m square prim. OK, the shapes are big blocks but there aren't jaggies on it at any range - so small textures that aren't plain are OK, at least sometimes.

Torin Golding

Misanthropic Humanist

Join date: 13 Sep 2005

Posts: 41

03-21-2006 15:59

Stupid newbie photoshop question, forgive me...

Where in photoshop do I convert it to 512x512? I don't understand file size vs resolution vs image size.

I want to make sure I don't inadvertently feed the lag monster

Jennifer McLuhan

Smiles and Hugs are Free

Join date: 22 Aug 2005

Posts: 441

03-21-2006 16:52

Torin - Image, Image Size (Crtl-Alt-I) Make sure the X&Y sizes are showing Pixels

Jen

Chosen Few

Alpha Channel Slave

Join date: 16 Jan 2004

Posts: 7,496

03-22-2006 07:56

From: Torin Golding

I don't understand file size vs resolution vs image size.

File size = the amount of space (measured in bytes) that it takes to store the image on a hard drive or other medium

Resolution = a few possible definitions, but most commonly means pixels per inch (ppi) for screen images, or dots per inch (dpi) for print images. The standard for images intended for the screen is 72 ppi, but strictly speaking, it doesn't make much if you work at other resolutions. Computer monitors range from 72 to 96 ppi, and they'll always display everything at that resolution. I always recommend using 72 ppi for all SL images simply because it's a good habit to be in, since it is the standard practice for screen images.

Image size = the total number of pixels in the images. It's usually measured in pixels per side; for example, 512x256 or 128x128. For SL, the pixel count on each side of an image must be a power of two, with 32 as the lowest acceptable vaule, and 2048 as the highest. 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, and 2048 are all acceptable. Certain multiples of power-of-two numbers also work, such as 192 and 768. I haven't tested every single multiple, but most should work as long as they don't go above 2048.

_____________________

.

Land now available for rent in Indigo. Low rates. Quiet, low-lag mainland sim with good neighbors. IM me in-world if you're interested.

Torin Golding

Misanthropic Humanist

Join date: 13 Sep 2005

Posts: 41

03-22-2006 19:47

Thanks!

Reitsuki Kojima

Witchhunter

Join date: 27 Jan 2004

Posts: 5,328

03-23-2006 04:12

From: Chosen Few

Image size = the total number of pixels in the images. It's usually measured in pixels per side; for example, 512x256 or 128x128. For SL, the pixel count on each side of an image must be a power of two, with 32 as the lowest acceptable vaule, and 2048 as the highest. 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, and 2048 are all acceptable. Certain multiples of power-of-two numbers also work, such as 192 and 768. I haven't tested every single multiple, but most should work as long as they don't go above 2048.

Are you certain of that, Chosen? I seem to recall that used to be the case, but over a year ago I recall seeing in patch notes "Image size has been capped at 1024x1024".

_____________________

I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.

Blakar Ogre

Registered User

Join date: 18 Mar 2006

Posts: 209

03-23-2006 05:47

I'd like to know too. Is it 1024x1024 or 2048x2048? I was just in the process of looking for the max sizes (very hard to find) when I bumped into this post and hoped to have found the final answer. But apparently it's not sure either. I'd want to know because I'd want to store as many things as possible based on offsets. I also need it to calculate what I can do using animations. Without the maximum size it's hard to calculate how many frames one texture can contain.

Chosen Few

Alpha Channel Slave

Join date: 16 Jan 2004

Posts: 7,496

03-23-2006 07:20

1024 was the cap for years, but then all of a sudden recently uploads at 2048 have been acceptable. Here's an exerpt from another thread in which a few of us talked about it:

From: Chosen Few

Hmm, I never tried this before, but you're correct, Mika. I uploaded a 2048x512 test image, and the texture console confirms it remained at 2048x512 inworld. That lead me to belive that perhaps it's the total number of pixels that's important, not the length of any one side, meaning that 512x2048, 256x4096, 128x8912, etc. would all work since they're the same "size" as 1024x1024. However, upon further testing, that didn't turn out to be the case. Anything larger than 2048 on any side gets shrunk to 2048.

Apparently there is a new maximum side length of 2048 instead of 1024, and SL now allows textures at 2048x2048 without resizing them to 1024x1024. This is brand new behavior, and it's odd that it wasn't mentioned in any of the release notes. I can only wonder exactly which release this new size limit came in.

Now that the cat's out of the bag on this though, I feel duty bound to stress DO NOT UPLOAD 2048x2048 SIZED IMAGES!!!!!!

There's enough lag to deal with from the boneheads who overuse 1024's. I can't imagine what it's gonna be like with 2048-abusers now. Can you say snail speed? Because that's what you and everyone around you will experience if you start using 2048's. Don't use them, ever.

If you want to test this yourself, upload a 2048, apply it to a prim, and then open the texture console (ctrl-alt-d to add the debug menu to your display and the ctrl-shift-3 to open the texture console). Select the texture on the prim, and you'll see its info highlighted in yellow in the texture console.

Blakar, in regard to my "DO NOT UPLOAD 2048x2048 SIZED IMAGES!!!!!!" comment, texture sheets and animations would be a good use for it, so it sounds like you've got the right things in mind. As you probably realize, that comment was aimed at the people who would use it for clothing or for store displays and stuff. I'm sure you realize that kind of thing would not be good.

_____________________

.

Land now available for rent in Indigo. Low rates. Quiet, low-lag mainland sim with good neighbors. IM me in-world if you're interested.

Cottonteil Muromachi

Abominable

Join date: 2 Mar 2005

Posts: 1,071

03-23-2006 07:45

2048 sized textures are certainly possible. Although you might get a time out if the image is far too complex, so it goes through with less compression. Its probably useful when used as a sort of long filmstrip like 2048 x 64 for various kinds of animations as you don't need to figure out the offsets for the other axis. Just have to worry about going in one direction.

Blakar Ogre

Registered User

Join date: 18 Mar 2006

Posts: 209

03-23-2006 11:08

Thanks for the info, and indeed I'm not planning to use it for single surfaces

It'll just simplify keeping things together. In a 2048x2048 you can store 64 256x256 textures which is enough for a whole wardrobe in 1 texture or a pretty detailed animation.

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Rayne Ghia Registered User Join date: 16 Sep 2005 Posts: 28	03-20-2006 13:16 Just wondering what the average filesize of a texture should be. I've been trying mine at 1024x1024 (4meg) so i can get maximum detail on my outfits, and I should probably drop them down to 512x512, but what does everyone elses filesize (not RESxRES but size as in megs) come to?
Ordinal Malaprop really very ordinary Join date: 9 Sep 2005 Posts: 4,607	03-20-2006 13:28 SL converts TGAs to store as JPEG2000s, so the filesize before upload is not a guide to how long it will take to load it. A very complex or random texture will take more room to store and more time to load. I almost never go beyond 512x512 personally, and try to keep to 256x256 or less. It mostly depends on how complex the texture is, but I'll cap it at 512 for most purposes unless it's meant to be put on something absolutely enormous at 1x1 scale. I wouldn't put a 1024x1024 on clothing - nobody's going to notice the difference between that and a 512x512, and it will lag people.
Eloise Pasteur Curious Individual Join date: 14 Jul 2004 Posts: 1,952	03-21-2006 02:47 Filesizes are a function of resolution and bits per pixel. 1024X1024X4 gives you 4MB for example. 256X256X4 gives you 1/4MB. In essence, working on the textures big and reducing to a suitable size is the most commonly used thing for designers. There may be situations were you can justify a larger texture, but as a rule of thumb there's rarely any need for bigger than 512 X 512 (for clothes etc.) and for other textures you might not need to be bigger than 32X32 (the smallest you can load into SL) - depending on exactly what's required. Every texture has to streamed to everyone that sees it after all. Although the files are reconverted internally larger originals still produce larger internal textures, and that's more data to stream, slower loading, more lag and more people upset, not wearing your clothes, avoiding your sim or whatever.
Reitsuki Kojima Witchhunter Join date: 27 Jan 2004 Posts: 5,328	03-21-2006 02:49 Actually, I would strongly suggest you do NOT use a 1024x1024 texture on upload for clothing. A deliberate resize in photoshop or PSP using bicubic or per-pixel resampling will look better than whatever method SL uses to resize textures for the avatar. _____________________ I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
Rev Eponym 21st Century Schizoid Man Join date: 28 Feb 2006 Posts: 21	03-21-2006 08:37 This is why forums are invaluable. I was getting on to ask almost the same question, and here are the exact answers I expected. I have been looking around at some of the higher-quality clothing and skins in SL, and based on the templates available from Robin Wood and others, I expected that some might be doing 1024x1024's. But I thought this might be a bad idea, judging from the lag my Resident friends and I experience with our own clothing. As I start my first real clothing projects, I'll probably work at 1024 and size down to 512, which always helps to 'tighten up' a 3D texture. Thanks, everyone.
Ceera Murakami Texture Artist / Builder Join date: 9 Sep 2005 Posts: 7,750	03-21-2006 09:39 I am a texture artist and clothing designer. As a rule, I design my textures at 1024x1024, or perhaps at 2048x2048 if I want a lot of detail. Then I resize it in Photoshop, down to 512x512 or 256x256 in most cases, save that .tga, and import it. As stated, 512x512 is plenty for detailed clothing, especially if the art was reduced from a larger scale. The only time I would import a texture at 1024x1024 or 1024x512 is for a highly detailed wall texture, where I expect the user to place just one repetition along the entire length or height of a 10 M prim. Depending on the texture, I may import it in other aspect ratios that are 32, 64, 128, 256, or 512 on one direction or the other, doing the rescaling in Photoshop before importing it. Once in a while, that still results in the aspect ratio being changed on import! Even when the pixel counts are exact before saving! I imported some a few days ago where the 512x256 textures came in rectangular, while 256x512 textures got streached and became square! In fact, come to think of it, I think that ANY time the width is less than the height, SL is importing it with the height dimension as the final form in both directions. O^o I'll have to check that! _____________________ Sorry, LL won't let me tell you where I sell my textures and where I offer my services as a sim builder. Ask me in-world.
Kensuke Leviathan Wandering fox Join date: 11 Dec 2002 Posts: 127	03-21-2006 10:54 I wouldn't recommend using 1024x1024 textures for clothing, atleast once you import it, the max SL can display a texture on the avatar model is 512x512 so your only subjecting the texture to SL scaling engine which can lead to details getting lost in the noise. As a general rule for all texturing you should work in the resolution that you'll be outputting in, if your going to output to 512x512 work in that, photoshop and PSP are wonderful apps but can be very stupid when it comes to resampling, as an artist you know what looks right, photoshop does not. _____________________ _________________ ":> wark wark"
Persephone Phoenix loving laptopvideo2go.com Join date: 5 Nov 2004 Posts: 1,012	03-21-2006 11:39 I have seen the work of some designers take exceedingly long to rez. I have often suspected if this is because they are using a 1024x1024 file size. Would it have that effect? And wouldn't it also cause lag? _____________________ Events are everyone's business.
Robin Sojourner Registered User Join date: 16 Sep 2004 Posts: 1,080	03-21-2006 12:04 My templates are 1024x1024 because, as several others have said, it's a really good idea to work at that size (or larger,) and reduce the size before importing to SL. Among other things, it makes things like straps and necklines a lot easier to match across the seams. But I never meant to imply that clothing should be imported into SL that large. In fact, I've run some tests that would seem to show that SL resizes lots of things when you import. Clothing seems to be resized to 512x512. Myrrh Massiel sent me some test results that would imply that something odd happens to textures that are loaded at sizes smaller than 256 as well. At any rate, an image that is half black and half white gets very blurry when it's uploaded at 16x16. The blur, I'm told, becomes less pronounced as the upload dimensions increase, but doesn't become crisp until 256x256. I haven't had a chance to replicate these results, but anyone who does might want to try it. But yeah, unless you need sharp lines for some reason, the general rule of thumb is the smaller the better. (And 1024x1024 really is best reserved for 1 rep. on 10x10 m. prims.) _____________________ Robin (Sojourner) Wood www.robinwood.com "Second Life ... is an Internet-based virtual world ... and a libertarian anarchy..." Wikipedia
Dianne Mechanique Back from the Dead Join date: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 2,648	03-21-2006 12:22 From: Ceera Murakami ... Depending on the texture, I may import it in other aspect ratios that are 32, 64, 128, 256, or 512 on one direction or the other, doing the rescaling in Photoshop before importing it. Once in a while, that still results in the aspect ratio being changed on import! Even when the pixel counts are exact before saving! I imported some a few days ago where the 512x256 textures came in rectangular, while 256x512 textures got streached and became square! ... A good trick to get around this is to put multiple textures on one 512x512 square. If you are texturing an object that needs a top, bottom, sides, and edge texture (and some of these are narrow strips), you can sometimes put them all on one 512 square and use offsets to align the difference faces in the right places. It takes some figuring and a calculator to figure the offsets, but they load faster take up less space in your inventory, and all have the exact same palette. Conversely, it's also sometimes a good idea if you have an object made up of multiple prims to make a single texture (512x512) and use offsets to apply the right pieces of it to the prims that make up the object or wall. Again, it loads faster, uses less resources, costs less and even looks better during the ever lengthening "Tron" phase (loading textures) as it hides the seams in the prims even then. _____________________ . black art furniture & classic clothing =================== Black in Neufreistadt Black @ ONE Black @ www.SLBoutique.com .
Chosen Few Alpha Channel Slave Join date: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 7,496	03-21-2006 12:34 From: Ceera Murakami I imported some a few days ago where the 512x256 textures came in rectangular, while 256x512 textures got streached and became square! Are you absolutely certain that that's what happened? Don't trust the viewer window. It rarely shows things the right size. Upload a 32x32, for example, and the viewer will show it as 64x32. The actual texture is still 32x32 though, as can easily be confirmed by the texture console (ctrl-alt-D turns on Debug Menu, then ctrl-shift-3 turns on texture console). I'd be willing to be that if you apply that 256x512 of yours to a prim and then check the size with the texture console, it would read as 256x512. I've uploaded plenty of tall textures before and they work just fine, regardless of whether or not they look right in that fracked up viewer pane. _____________________ . Land now available for rent in Indigo. Low rates. Quiet, low-lag mainland sim with good neighbors. IM me in-world if you're interested.
Strife Onizuka Moonchild Join date: 3 Mar 2004 Posts: 5,887	03-21-2006 13:02 I'll speak to file sizes. Images that are 512x512 are about 30 -> 120 KB 1024x1024 are about 100 -> 500 KB If you make an image bigger (like enlarging 512x512 to 1024x1024) the change of compressed size will be minimal because of how JPEG2000 works. But if it's better to keep your images smaller, as they will use less video memory. _____________________ Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river. - Cyril Connolly Without the political will to find common ground, the continual friction of tactic and counter tactic, only creates suspicion and hatred and vengeance, and perpetuates the cycle of violence. - James Nachtwey
Kaboom Pow Registered User Join date: 28 Nov 2005 Posts: 81	03-21-2006 13:09 From: Dianne Mechanique A good trick to get around this is to put multiple textures on one 512x512 square. If you are texturing an object that needs a top, bottom, sides, and edge texture (and some of these are narrow strips), you can sometimes put them all on one 512 square and use offsets to align the difference faces in the right places.... Brilliant idea Dianne!
Ceera Murakami Texture Artist / Builder Join date: 9 Sep 2005 Posts: 7,750	03-21-2006 13:59 Thank you Chosen! I was going by what the viewer displayed. I'll check what the debug panel that you mentioned. I've done multiples on a single texture before, as well as multiple prims sharing a single texture. I put four sign textures on a single prim, and made a one-prim sign that could display any of the four versions by altering the offset of the texture. Very handy! A friend of mine, Starchaser Webb, used the 'one texture across many prims' trick to make a 30 M wide, 25 M tall 'wall' that displayed a huge, alpha-mapped oak tree, using 9 prims to make the wall. He then used several of those to be the foliage for an even larger Oak tree that his home is built in. I think the final tree is 40 to 50 M tall, and the foliage ball is over 30 M in diameter. _____________________ Sorry, LL won't let me tell you where I sell my textures and where I offer my services as a sim builder. Ask me in-world.
Eloise Pasteur Curious Individual Join date: 14 Jul 2004 Posts: 1,952	03-21-2006 15:36 Whilst speaking of sharp lines I made some single letter textures for a large (20m high X 60m long) sign. I'm pretty sure the original logos are all 32X32 pixels with a 28 pt letter on each one - can't find them right now. They're blown up to twice size on a 10m square prim. OK, the shapes are big blocks but there aren't jaggies on it at any range - so small textures that aren't plain are OK, at least sometimes.
Torin Golding Misanthropic Humanist Join date: 13 Sep 2005 Posts: 41	03-21-2006 15:59 Stupid newbie photoshop question, forgive me... Where in photoshop do I convert it to 512x512? I don't understand file size vs resolution vs image size. I want to make sure I don't inadvertently feed the lag monster
Jennifer McLuhan Smiles and Hugs are Free Join date: 22 Aug 2005 Posts: 441	03-21-2006 16:52 Torin - Image, Image Size (Crtl-Alt-I) Make sure the X&Y sizes are showing Pixels Jen
Chosen Few Alpha Channel Slave Join date: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 7,496	03-22-2006 07:56 From: Torin Golding I don't understand file size vs resolution vs image size. File size = the amount of space (measured in bytes) that it takes to store the image on a hard drive or other medium Resolution = a few possible definitions, but most commonly means pixels per inch (ppi) for screen images, or dots per inch (dpi) for print images. The standard for images intended for the screen is 72 ppi, but strictly speaking, it doesn't make much if you work at other resolutions. Computer monitors range from 72 to 96 ppi, and they'll always display everything at that resolution. I always recommend using 72 ppi for all SL images simply because it's a good habit to be in, since it is the standard practice for screen images. Image size = the total number of pixels in the images. It's usually measured in pixels per side; for example, 512x256 or 128x128. For SL, the pixel count on each side of an image must be a power of two, with 32 as the lowest acceptable vaule, and 2048 as the highest. 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, and 2048 are all acceptable. Certain multiples of power-of-two numbers also work, such as 192 and 768. I haven't tested every single multiple, but most should work as long as they don't go above 2048. _____________________ . Land now available for rent in Indigo. Low rates. Quiet, low-lag mainland sim with good neighbors. IM me in-world if you're interested.
Torin Golding Misanthropic Humanist Join date: 13 Sep 2005 Posts: 41	03-22-2006 19:47 Thanks!
Reitsuki Kojima Witchhunter Join date: 27 Jan 2004 Posts: 5,328	03-23-2006 04:12 From: Chosen Few Image size = the total number of pixels in the images. It's usually measured in pixels per side; for example, 512x256 or 128x128. For SL, the pixel count on each side of an image must be a power of two, with 32 as the lowest acceptable vaule, and 2048 as the highest. 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, and 2048 are all acceptable. Certain multiples of power-of-two numbers also work, such as 192 and 768. I haven't tested every single multiple, but most should work as long as they don't go above 2048. Are you certain of that, Chosen? I seem to recall that used to be the case, but over a year ago I recall seeing in patch notes "Image size has been capped at 1024x1024". _____________________ I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
Blakar Ogre Registered User Join date: 18 Mar 2006 Posts: 209	03-23-2006 05:47 I'd like to know too. Is it 1024x1024 or 2048x2048? I was just in the process of looking for the max sizes (very hard to find) when I bumped into this post and hoped to have found the final answer. But apparently it's not sure either. I'd want to know because I'd want to store as many things as possible based on offsets. I also need it to calculate what I can do using animations. Without the maximum size it's hard to calculate how many frames one texture can contain.
Chosen Few Alpha Channel Slave Join date: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 7,496	03-23-2006 07:20 1024 was the cap for years, but then all of a sudden recently uploads at 2048 have been acceptable. Here's an exerpt from another thread in which a few of us talked about it: From: Chosen Few Hmm, I never tried this before, but you're correct, Mika. I uploaded a 2048x512 test image, and the texture console confirms it remained at 2048x512 inworld. That lead me to belive that perhaps it's the total number of pixels that's important, not the length of any one side, meaning that 512x2048, 256x4096, 128x8912, etc. would all work since they're the same "size" as 1024x1024. However, upon further testing, that didn't turn out to be the case. Anything larger than 2048 on any side gets shrunk to 2048. Apparently there is a new maximum side length of 2048 instead of 1024, and SL now allows textures at 2048x2048 without resizing them to 1024x1024. This is brand new behavior, and it's odd that it wasn't mentioned in any of the release notes. I can only wonder exactly which release this new size limit came in. Now that the cat's out of the bag on this though, I feel duty bound to stress DO NOT UPLOAD 2048x2048 SIZED IMAGES!!!!!! There's enough lag to deal with from the boneheads who overuse 1024's. I can't imagine what it's gonna be like with 2048-abusers now. Can you say snail speed? Because that's what you and everyone around you will experience if you start using 2048's. Don't use them, ever. If you want to test this yourself, upload a 2048, apply it to a prim, and then open the texture console (ctrl-alt-d to add the debug menu to your display and the ctrl-shift-3 to open the texture console). Select the texture on the prim, and you'll see its info highlighted in yellow in the texture console. Blakar, in regard to my "DO NOT UPLOAD 2048x2048 SIZED IMAGES!!!!!!" comment, texture sheets and animations would be a good use for it, so it sounds like you've got the right things in mind. As you probably realize, that comment was aimed at the people who would use it for clothing or for store displays and stuff. I'm sure you realize that kind of thing would not be good. _____________________ . Land now available for rent in Indigo. Low rates. Quiet, low-lag mainland sim with good neighbors. IM me in-world if you're interested.
Cottonteil Muromachi Abominable Join date: 2 Mar 2005 Posts: 1,071	03-23-2006 07:45 2048 sized textures are certainly possible. Although you might get a time out if the image is far too complex, so it goes through with less compression. Its probably useful when used as a sort of long filmstrip like 2048 x 64 for various kinds of animations as you don't need to figure out the offsets for the other axis. Just have to worry about going in one direction.
Blakar Ogre Registered User Join date: 18 Mar 2006 Posts: 209	03-23-2006 11:08 Thanks for the info, and indeed I'm not planning to use it for single surfaces It'll just simplify keeping things together. In a 2048x2048 you can store 64 256x256 textures which is enough for a whole wardrobe in 1 texture or a pretty detailed animation.