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Transparent Issues - PLEASE HELP!
Tami Amat
*winks*
Join date: 7 Mar 2007
Posts: 114
05-26-2007 04:47
I've read the info here in the forum and have gone through the "Help" section in Jasc Paint Shop Pro and am still coming up with either a white or black background in SL for the transparent parts.

Per
From: someone
Photoshop Elements
This tutorial was made possible in large part by Robin Sojourner, who I believe was the first on this board to discover that PSE can create alpha channels, even though it does not display them. This has been tested with PSE retail versions 3 & 4.

UPDATE: Special thanks to ArchTX Edo for supplying a necessary addition in Step 3 of the tutorial in order to make it work for PSE version 2.0.

It is unknown at this time if this tutorial will work with version 1.x or with bundled or pre-installed versions.
  1. On the Layers Palette turn off all layers except for the layer that has your bikini on it. (To turn a layer off, click the eyeball symbol to the left of its name.)

  2. If the bikini layer has any white space around the bikini itself, use the eraser to get rid of the white space. It's very important at this stage that the bikini be on its own layer with nothing else on it.

  3. On the Layers Palette, ctrl-click the thumbnail for the layer with the bikini on it. The thumbnail is the little picture of the layer directly to the left of the layer's name.

    If using PSE 2.0, choose "select layer transparency" from the pop-up menu that appears. If using version 3 or 4, you won't see that menu, so don't worry about it.

    This will select everything on the layer. You should see the "marching ants" outlining your bikini now. If there are elements of the bikini on any other layers, hold down shift, and then ctrl-click their respective thumbnails to add them to the selection. Make sure not to include the background or any of the template layers.

  4. On the Select Menu at the top of the screen, go Select -> Save Selection. This will save the selection a newly created alpha channel. Unlike Photoshop, PSE has no channels palette so you can’t actually see the alpha channel, but it is there.

  5. If you still see the "marching ants" outlining the bikini shape, turn off the selection by clicking Select -> Deselect. For the next step, you'll want nothing selected.

  6. On the Layers Palette, create a new layer by pressing the button at the bottom right that looks like a square sticker being peeled from its backing. Click on the name of this new layer and drag it underneath the layer with the bikini on it. Paint the new layer 50% gray or darker; black is fine. (The gray/black layer will prevent the white halo sometimes caused when Alphas are created the way we just did it. If you don't know what I mean by that, don't worry about. Just make sure to always put a gray/black layer underneath your work and you'll never have to see that white halo. Alternatively, more advanced users may wish to use one of the better halo-elimination methods discussed in the FAQ, although they may not all be applicable to PSE.)

  7. Save as 32-bit TGA and upload to SL.


Paint Shop Pro
I should preface this by saying that I’m a Photoshop user so my PSP tutorials are not as detailed as my Photoshop ones. This will still walk you through what you need to do, but not with quite as much hand-holding as the Photoshop info.
  1. In Photoshop, you can edit channels directly, but in PSP, you have to use a tool called a mask as a proxy for what will in the end become the alpha channel. To create a new mask, go Layers -> New Mask Layer -> Show All. A new layer group will be created, at the top of which will be your new mask layer. Make sure all other layers are in the group and below the mask.

  2. On the Layers Palette, select the mask layer and make sure the little Mask Overlay Toggle button at the top is turned off. The Mask Overlay Toggle is directly to the right of the Link Toggle. It looks like a tiny picture of a theater mask. When it's off it's gray; when it's on it's red. Just so you know, turning it on can be useful so you can exactly what is happening with the mask itself, but you'll have a more WYSIWYG feel with it turned off.

  3. At this point, your mask will be all white (no transparency yet). On the mask layer, start painting the areas you want to be invisible black, and you'll see the checkerboard show through in those areas. Any areas you want semi-transparent, paint gray. The darker the gray, the more transparent; the lighter the gray, the more opaque. The areas you want completely opaque just leave white.

  4. When you're finished, go to Layers -> Load/Save Mask -> Save Mask To Alpha Channel, and then delete the mask (DELETE it, do not merge it) by right clicking on it in the Layers Palette and selecting Delete. If you need to edit the alpha later, go Layers -> Load/Save Mask -> Load Mask From Alpha Channel.

  5. Create a new layer, and drag the layer set above it, so that the new layer is beneath the set, but not inside it. Paint the new layer 50% gray or darker; black is fine. (The gray/black layer will prevent the white halo sometimes caused when Alphas are created the way we just did it. If you don't know what I mean by that, don't worry about. Just make sure to always put a gray/black layer underneath your work and you'll never have to see that white halo. Alternatively, more advanced users may wish to use one of the better halo-elimination methods discussed in the FAQ, although not all of them will be applicable to PSP.)

  6. Save your file as a TGA and you should be all set. Unlike Photoshop, PSP offers no option to choose 32-bit at the time of save. If an alpha channel is present in the image, the file automatically will be saved as 32 bit. If there's no alpha channel, the file will save as 24 bit.

    Just to be thorough (thanks Jolan Nolan for pointing this out), there is an options button on the save dialog, which does include a bit depth selector, but I recommend leaving it alone. The dialog it calls up is kind of confusing. It allows you to select bit depth of 8, 16, or 24, but not 32. For SL purposes, leave it at 24 at all times (SL can't use 8 or 16). For some reason, the makers of PSP seem to think the extra 8 bits in the alpha channel aren't worth counting out loud, which is really strange, but don't worry; the file will still save correctly with 24 selected. As long as you work in RGB mode at all times, your images will automatically save correctly unless you tell it otherwise. To avoid problems, I recommend never pressing that options button unless you're sure you know what you're doing.


The GIMP
Tutorial coming soon.
Last edited by Chosen Few : 10-27-2006 at 10:53 PM.
and which I so appreciate this post; when I go so save this is is "always" alerting me to this: 'Because of the limitations of the specified file format (and possibly the save options you have selected), the saved file will be limited to a merged image. Also as a result of these limitations, only one alpha channel will be saved. Would you like to continue?'

Ok...so now I'm going nuts! lol

Anyone have any layman tips they can toss out?

Thanks,
Tami
Tami Amat
*winks*
Join date: 7 Mar 2007
Posts: 114
Btw
05-26-2007 05:23
I'm working from the upper body temp you can get at secondlife.com. See attachment if it came through ok.

Thanks in advance guys! I'm working so hard on getting this strait so I can begin building my biz!

Tami
Tami Amat
*winks*
Join date: 7 Mar 2007
Posts: 114
bump
05-26-2007 08:23
bump to top
Chosen Few
Alpha Channel Slave
Join date: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 7,496
05-26-2007 08:45
First, sorry the guide is now so hard to read. Since LL turned off bbCode on the forums, a lot of posts now require a magic decoder ring.

Anyway, you can ignore that pop up you're getting in PSP. All it's telling you is that the TGA format does not support layers, and that it can only have a maximum of 4 channels (red, green, blue, and alpha). Consider it a reminder to save your working document a PSD in order to preserve all your layers in case you need to go back and edit something later. In short, the TGA is for SL, the PSD is for you. Save both.

As for why you're not getting transparency, there are only two possible explanations. Your image contains either too many or too few channels. If you want transparency, make sure it has 4 and only 4. I'd suggest you begin by deleting any pre-existing alpha channels that may be present. It's been a while since I've used PSP, but I believe the command sequence is Image -> Delete Alpha Channel. If that's not right, just look up "delete alpha channel" in the help. Once your certain no alphas present, then go ahead and make the alpha you want.

Also, keep in mind that good image editors like PSP (and Photoshop, and most others) will not show you transparency in your TGA's. Assuming the file is made correctly, you'll see the transparency in SL, but you'll never see it in your image editor. The reason is that alpha channels don't have to mean transparency. They can mean literally anything. In SL the alpha channel happens to mean transparency, but in another program it might be a lighting map or a bump map or the recipe for your grandmother's oatmeal cookies. It's just a data map, nothing more.

PSP's job is simply to create that data map. How to interpret that data is the job of whatever program the image was created for, in this case SL. PSP is smart enough not to make any assumptions about what the alpha might be for. It just does what you tell it, which in this is nothing more than "create this alpha channel now".

So, when you said you're seeing a white or black background, did you actually test your image in SL? Or did you just look at the TGA in PSP, and assume it would look the same in SL?



P.S. Two additional tips:

1. If you want to view your alpha transparency in PSP, put all your layers into a single group, copy your alpha channel to a mask, and apply the mask to the group. If you do that though, just be sure to delete the mask before you save to TGA.


2. Don't bump your posts. It's considered rude. Especially when your post was still on the front page. I happened to be in the process of writing this response when you added the bump. Be a little more patient.
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Tami Amat
*winks*
Join date: 7 Mar 2007
Posts: 114
Thank you and about the bump
05-26-2007 11:04
I'm kind of new to the forum as far as posting a lot. From other forums I've been in (non related to SL) if you didn't bump a post it would quickly get lost in the shuffle of things. So that was in no way intended to be rude. Just a bump to keep it on the first page so it wouldn't get lost. I didn't realize how this forum didn't move as fast as others I've been in. So with that being said, thank you for the reply and time spent on it.

I tested the images in SL (of course). I continue to see either black or white. I'll try what you've offered as a suggestion and see if I can figure this out. I've created clothes in the past and feel I have the knack for it. But obviously have limits on my creativity without having the transparency understood and rectified.

Again, didn't mean to appear pushy with the bump. Hence my first paragraph. Just not use to SL forum and the speed of it. I now can see it's not going to get lost as quickly as I thought it might.

Thanks for your time and I'll see what I can do with this.

Tami
Tami Amat
*winks*
Join date: 7 Mar 2007
Posts: 114
Not Working
05-26-2007 11:28
Ok...this is what I did.

1) uploaded the upper body template.
2) deleted everything but the tshirt alpha, UV map.
3) Created a mask overlay layer (show all)
4) all other layers are now below the mask.
5) Toggle button is gray and turned off.
6) Mask layer...painted in black for 100% trans.
7) Load/Save mask to Alpha Channel.
8) deleted the mask by right clicking and selecting delete from the palette.
9) Created a raster layer and put it beneath the "set" and not inside.
10) Saved to TGA (still got the same error message and it WOULD NOT let me ignore it and made me merge it).

I saved it in PSD as well for later.

Now I logged into SL and tried to see if it worked. No it was all white. Also, when I deleted the working mask layer as told too, I don't see the work I painted in black for trans anymore. What is the Save/Load to Alpha layer all about and why do I have to delete the other?

Anyway...I had four layers. In this order:

Group:
------ Group Working Layer
----------Tee Shirt Alpha
----------UV_map
------ Raster 1

So is that four or just really two or what? Gosh...this is about confusing and I can't believe I don't get this yet! lol

Thanks again to anyone that lends me a hand. I'm sorry I'm not a sponge on this one! lol

Tami
Sioxie Legend
Obsessive Designer
Join date: 11 Nov 2006
Posts: 168
05-26-2007 15:20
I am not sure how Paint Shop Pro treats alpha channels - I will try to help you though...

You need to remember that in the alpha channel - white is the hole that you can see the image through. Make sure that the part you want to show (the area seen, the clothing itself) is WHITE in your Alpha channel with the surrounding areas BLACK (this is the transparent portion). The best way to think of it is like a piece of black construction paper with a cutout in the middle - if you take the cutout piece of paper and lay it on top of a white piece of paper - the white represents the hole you can see through and the black represents the masked areas.

If you are trying to get semi-transparencies, grey is what you would use for that.
Raindrop Drinkwater
Globally Creative
Join date: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 240
05-27-2007 02:00
From: Tami Amat

Group:
------ Group Working Layer
----------Tee Shirt Alpha
----------UV_map
------ Raster 1

I think you're confusing layers and channels. You can have as many layers as you want, but only 4 channels (when you want to save to tga, anyway): Red, Green, Blue and Alpha.

I don't know how it shows up in Paint Shop Pro, but in Photoshop, you basically have two tabs: one with the layers you're working on, and one with the channels.
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Emap Woyseck
Registered User
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 32
05-27-2007 03:15
I am using Paintshop Pro 9, and they are making it alot harder than it actually is. :rolleyes:

Now what you want to do is draw up your design take as many layers as you want, get the layers in the proper order, remove or blank out any layers you don't want. Now after that is done, check it over make sure there is nothing extra anywhere. Then save it as a PSP, this part is important because you likely will have to go back and edit again.

Now, you resize the image to 512X512, this is important because no matter what size you put it in at, it works as a 512X512 for clothing, if it is smaller it has alot of blank and looks bad, if it is bigger it has no blank and looks bad. Now once you get it sized right, then you select the top layer that is actually visible, it probably makes no difference but I always say better safe than sorry. ;)

Once you have the top visible layer selective, you go to Layers pick out Create Mask and create a mask. After it saves the mask, usually only a second or two scroll down to Save Mask As and save it to Alpha Channel. At which point you Save As and place it someplace easy to get to when you upload later and save it as a TGA. Now once it is saved, close the image and never open that TGA again. Don't ask me why but with Paintshop when you open a TGA any alpha is forever broken.

That is the way to design clothes into SL with Paintshop, granted simpler than Photoshop, but hey so long as it comes out gorgeous who the heck cares how easy it is to make that TGA anyway. ;)
Tami Amat
*winks*
Join date: 7 Mar 2007
Posts: 114
Thank You!
05-27-2007 05:56
From: Emap Woyseck
I am using Paintshop Pro 9, and they are making it alot harder than it actually is. :rolleyes:

Now what you want to do is draw up your design take as many layers as you want, get the layers in the proper order, remove or blank out any layers you don't want. Now after that is done, check it over make sure there is nothing extra anywhere. Then save it as a PSP, this part is important because you likely will have to go back and edit again.

Now, you resize the image to 512X512, this is important because no matter what size you put it in at, it works as a 512X512 for clothing, if it is smaller it has alot of blank and looks bad, if it is bigger it has no blank and looks bad. Now once you get it sized right, then you select the top layer that is actually visible, it probably makes no difference but I always say better safe than sorry. ;)

Once you have the top visible layer selective, you go to Layers pick out Create Mask and create a mask. After it saves the mask, usually only a second or two scroll down to Save Mask As and save it to Alpha Channel. At which point you Save As and place it someplace easy to get to when you upload later and save it as a TGA. Now once it is saved, close the image and never open that TGA again. Don't ask me why but with Paintshop when you open a TGA any alpha is forever broken.

That is the way to design clothes into SL with Paintshop, granted simpler than Photoshop, but hey so long as it comes out gorgeous who the heck cares how easy it is to make that TGA anyway. ;)


OMG! Thank you so much! It worked!!!!! Yes...simple and layman is best for me! I'm so happy...now I can be on my way to creating more than I have! THANKS SO MUCH AGAIN!
Tami Amat
*winks*
Join date: 7 Mar 2007
Posts: 114
Thanks for "ALL" of your help!
05-27-2007 06:05
I just wanted to thank you "all" for your contribution to this issue. After I get a few tops made, I'll come back and do a step by step for PSP for the newbie! :-)

Thanks so much again for your time and help.

Tami Amat
Tami Amat
*winks*
Join date: 7 Mar 2007
Posts: 114
Here we go step by step so far:
05-27-2007 07:53
I'll put together something better when I get better at this myself. But for now, here's how I did this!

(Snapshot attached)

1) Visit: slboutique.com/chipmidnight this was suggest to me by a new friend Zermes Granville (thank you). He wrote me that Chip Midnight "has some GREAT hi rez templates for clothing/skins. Do a Google search for CMF, and you will find a link to the download for them. His layers are all marked, and numbered, and very simple to understand what they are for." So that's where I went.

2) I started with Chips upper body template. Here are the following steps I took (see attachment for a visual...and not a good one mind you...I was testing so the top is real ugly, not something I would market myself, but just using that as a testing ground...I'm sure you understand...lol). See below:

a) Uploaded the upper body temp into Jasc PSP.
b) I chose to work with the 'Edge Matching Guide'
c) Colored it in purple with some cheap shading.
d) Then while the 'Edge Matching Guide' layer is still highlighted, I created a 'New Mask Layer' then clicked 'Show All' (Go to Layers Tab to start).
e) So now I have a new group created and it looks something like this:

-----Group Edge Matching Guide
----------Mask Edge Matching (HIGHLIGHTED ONE)
----------Edge Matching Guide

f) Now I've chose to make it easy on me and just worked on the highlighted mask layer and cut off the top of the shirt by using the "color" BLACK (100% trans) and "painted" it (not erased it) black (showed through transparent as I did this (gray/white boxes appeared).
g) Now I took that and when to 'Layers' then 'Load/Save Mask to Alpha' and saved it.
h) Now still with the 'Mask Edge Matching' layer highlighted and everything that is not in the group X'd over (X over the eyeball so you can't see the other layers "outside" this group), I saved this as a PSD first. Then I went back and saved this as a TGA. I got the same error message and just clicked OK anyway.

AND I NOW GET A TRANS IN SL!!!! YIPPEEEEEE! I can now go to bed after 48 hours of obsessing about this! lol

Maybe as I get better I'll come in and do a PSD Trans "Step by Step" or something to help the newbies. I'm not a newbie, but the lingo was confusing the "blank" out of me!

Thanks again all!