wacom models?

Ok I know graphic tablet > mouse....

I know wacom > all others.... (I love SL forums, 15 minutes reading stuff by ya all makes me a expert in stuff I trully have no clue about )

Now my question is.... from point of someone thats not a real artist and struggles to draw straight stickmen (mine all look like they got some crippling disease,) is the difference between the Graphire model and the Intous that big?

I can get a 4x6 of the former for $104 and the latter for $199. Im just wondering since Im not as skilled as most ya, will the difference be worth eating top ramen noodles for a week. I just dont want spend $95 to find out it doesnt improve on what Im doing. Im still steaming from when I bought Poser5 from efrontier and exactly two freaking days latter they announce its free to download (especially considering I purchased a boxed version so it was downloadable for free a day before it was actually delivered to my door.)

The Graphire is fine as a starter pad, but you might find the 4x6 area a little cramped. Try cutting out a piece of paper that size and see how little free movement it gives you. Even the little pad will beat the stuffing out of a mouse for freehand drawing though.

The main features in the Intuos are higher resolution and pressure sensitivity, but you won't care unless you are doing really detailed work, and even then you may not care because you are probably zoomed in anyway. The buttons on the more expensive pads are nice to have but not essential. There are also some extra settings like pen angle that the Intuos will give you, but not many programs use them. You can check the Wacom software list at http://www.wacom.com/productsupport/tesoftware.cfm to see if any of the fancier features might matter to you.

(In other words, as a beginner, you may be happier with a bigger Graphire than a teensy Intuos if you are thinking of spending a little more)

I used a 4x5" Graphire for a couple of years before I got my 12x19" Intuos3. Now I keep the Graphire in my laptop case and use it while traveling. It's funny you brought this up today because just a couple of hours ago I was debating whether it would be worth coughing up a few hundred dollars for a travel sized Intuos. I'm still thinking about it. I'm about to leave for a week-long trip, and it's gonna feel a little strange using the Graphire for that long, being so used to the Intuos.

The Graphire is not a bad tablet in any way. It works really, really well, in fact. So if you do decide to go the cheap route and get a Graphire, you won't be unhappy with it. It's a great piece of equipment, and you can't argue with the price.

However, between the fact that the Intuos just feels so much better to draw on (double the resolution, double the pressure sensitivity, and unlike the Graphire it senses tilt in addition to just pressure), and the fact that you're going to have either tablet for many years (it will long outlive your computer), it's hard to make the case that saving $95 would be worthwhile for you. If you use it for the next five years, that's only $19 a year to have an awesome tablet instead of just a really great tablet. Unless $95 would do serious damage to your financial well being right now, I'd say go for the Intuos.

Even if you do find that you'll eventually want a bigger tablet, I still think the Intuos would be worth it. It might feel like throwing away the extra money if you know you're gonna want to replace the thing anyway, but you can always eBay the thing and recover some of it. The Intuos is likely to have a much higher resale value than the Graphire.

I bought a wacom tablet after reading this thread. So you're all to blame for me wasting my money!!




Seriously though, so far I'm not too impressed. I've gone back to using my mouse for now. I find using the tablet requires a lot more effort than a mouse. I'm having to be constantly aware of the pen's height and its position relative to the edges of the tablet. But I'll give the tablet another go again when I get more time.

If you're quite new to computers then I must admit, a tablet would probably be much easier to use. But if you're like me and was born with a logitech mouse in your right hand, then I would recommend you first try out a tablet before exchanging cash for one.

I also own a tablet PC, so maybe I'm a little spoilt by that. Because with a tablet PC I can draw/write directly onto the screen. This means the wacom seems a little primitive in comparison.

Oh well...


I forgive you all.

2K, I think perhaps you're misunderstanding what a tablet is for. It's by no means intended to replace your mouse. It's a tool for doing artwork, not for general use. It shouldn't be a question of "going back to your mouse". Use the tablet for the things a tablet is good for, and use your mouse for EVERYTHING else.

You'll find, for example, that while it's of course possible to do decent artwork with just a mouse, it's 100% impossible to paint with a mouse in the completely natural and fluid way that you can with a tablet. Just getting a single stroke to become wider and thinner as you draw, like it would on paper with a pencil, can take hours of selective reworking with a mouse to make it look like it was naturally drawn. But with the pen tablet, it's instant. The way you draw on paper can be exactly the way you draw on the computer.

By the same token, it's likewise impossible to game with a tablet. That's what a mouse is good at. You also wouldn't want to try to build in SL with a pen. And you wouldn't want to use the pen for the simple routine mouse chores you do when web surfing or word processing. Etc., etc., etc.

Use the right tool for the right job.


You shouldn't have to be consciously aware of that at all. Set the tablet to forced proportions with your screen, and make sure it's in pen mode, not mouse mode. That way every pixel on your screen has an exact corresponding spot on the tablet. All you have to do to know where the pen is is watch the cursor. You should never have to look down at all.


Do that. It takes a few days to get used to a tablet, and then you wonder how you ever lived without it.


I can't agree with that. If someone's new to computing in general, they're just as likely to struggle with the tablet as with the keyboard, the mouse, the OS, and everything else.

If you wanna hear my story, I didn't get my first tablet until I was well into late 20's, but I'd been computing since my father got me a TRS-80 Color Computer for one of my single-digit birthdays (I think I was 9, but that's just a guess). Back then, I used to do computer art with a tape cassette driven paint program, and my drawing tools were a joystick and the arrow keys. The first Macintosh was still a few years away, and the thought of having a mouse on what was then called an "IBM Clone" (the term PC didn't even really exist yet) had barely crossed anyone's mind.

So, I think it's safe to say that while I may not have been "born with a mouse in my hand" like you, I certainly bore witness to the birth of the mouse as a household item, and I participated in its growth as such as much as everyone else did. It still only took me about 2 days to get used to using my tablet, which is about how long it took just about everyone else I know. Just give the tablet a little time, use it for what it's meant for, and I'm sure you'll say the same.



Actually, I'd say the exact opposite, for several reasons:

1. To my knowledge, there's not a tablet PC on the market that has the sensitivity, reliability, and precision that Wacom is able to build into their tablets. This is why not many professional digital artists choose to own tablet PC's. They're just not artists' tools.

2. In order to deliver both touch sensitivity and imagery, touch screen monitors invariably sacrifice the quality of both. It's the same tired old "jack of all trades" cliche that goes into just about every combo device there is. By having your monitor and your tablet as separate items, each one can be much better at its dedicated task. You'll never find a touch screen that looks as good as a normal screen or that is as sensitive as a dedicated drawing tablet.

3. This may be an aside, but since tablet PC's are kind of a niche thing, they don't tend to be as powerful as other available computers in the same price range.

4. This is a small thing, but when you draw directly on the screen, the tip of the pen is actually covering the part of the screen you're working on at that exact moment. The same thing happens on paper, of course, so we're all used to it and we don't really think about it. But if you do stop and think for a minute, it's pretty easy to see that separating the physical drawing surface from the visual drawing surface is quite an improvement. At no time during the process is any part of the work ever obscured.

5. If you really, really, really want to draw directly on the screen, Wacom makes a product called Cintiq. It's a touch screen with Wacom's proprietary tablet technology built right into it. I've never had the opportunity to use one, but I have seen one being used. It's an impressive device. I opted not to get on though because of all of the reasons I stated above. Good as it is, it's not immune to the "jack of all trades" issue. While its display is decent, it's nowhere near as good as my monitors, and while it's pressure sensitivity and precision are certainly respectable (it IS a Wacom, after all), they're not quite as good as the Intuos. Plus, I didn't want to have to keep cleaning finger prints off the thing. (Not to mention, it's pricy.)


Don't get me wrong; I don't mean to dis tablet PC's outright. I do see the appeal of having one. It's just that it's really not a fair to compare a tablet PC with a Wacom tablet. The Wacom is a tool designed specifically for the serious artist, and the tablet PC just isn't.

I've been sour on drawing tablets for years. I did get a chance to use a Cintiq recently... I was genuinely salivating. I can't describe how comfortable and right using it felt. Then again, I'm also more used to using non-digital mediums. I can't justify springing for one at their current price, but will be keeping my eye out for one at some point in the future.

Thanks, Chosen. I'll give the tablet another whirl. And you're probably right about me asking too much of a tablet to fully replace my mouse. I admit, it was what I had hoped for.

and I've just realized that it wasn't this thread that persuaded me to buy a tablet. It was a different thead that was much much longer than this.

So apologies to the people in this thread. Well everybody except Chosen. because he was everywhere in that other thread!!!




But really, thanks again for the advice!!

I just bought my 4th Graphire tablet a couple weeks ago (a Graphire4, appropriately) and I can't say enough good things about them, but I can say a few:

Number 1: Between my RL and now SL, I spend a good portion of my waking hours on computers. I use 2 tablets and work and 2 at home, 1 on each computer. Without a tablet, my right arm/shoulder gets exhausted. Being able to divide the screen navigation and clicking 50/50 between right and left hands, I'm much more productive.

Number 2: I'm not sure if I'm reading when these posts were made correctly, but if I am, the first post was yesterday, and Suisei bought his/her tablet after that. Like many new ways of doing things, a Graphire tablet takes a little getting used to. I remember years ago when I bought my first one. Plugged it in and had the cursor all over the screen. I thought "this will never work." As was mentioned earlier, it is VERY important to go through the setup process on your tablet, and read what each of the options means. Even with a 4x6, I actually shrink the area of the tablet that correlates to my monitor, that's what works best for me. So, Suisei, I would encourage you to make the most of the options available and give it a few days.

Number 3: Programmable buttons. A Graphire4 only has 2, but having the "Escape" and "Delete" functions on my tablet is nice.

Number 4: The Zoom bar on a tablet is very handy in SL.

Number 5: When Lucas my cat gets up in my lap, I can push my keyboard tray in so we're comfortable, and still browse the web, check email, etc.

Cheers!


Just for the record - I'm using an intuos wireless thingamabob.



ps. Please ask Lucas why he never replies to my emails. Tell him that being a cat is no excuse.

One of my friends uses a tablet for Second Life-ing. Now that's just crazy.

I've been using my Intuos 2 for years instead of a mouse...it HAS a mouse. And this mouse is far better than any other mouse I've ever had. I can just switch to pen whenever I need, but it's the only mouse I use...

Ugggg. I used my Wacom mouse for a couple weeks once when my last Microsoft Intelimouse died and I was trying to find a replacement I could live with...

I felt trapped, on that silly little square... I'm a big fan of that whole "Free your mouse!" slogan that for a while went with optical mice.

Gosh I couldn't live without my tablet! I would never have explored digital art without it, the first attempt at painting with a mouse was truly awful! I sometimes use my tablet as a mouse, when I am working on a painting and want to skip out to view a reference, but for mousing, the best tool is.. well a mouse. The tablet is an art and writing tool. And even then, it's not great at writing either.

I would like to stress one thing though. If one is not really good at art yet, the tablet will not turn one into a great artist. You will only get frustrated and your lovely tablet will end up collecting dust. You are far better off investing in a sketchbook and some pencils before you invest in a tablet if your art skills are still developing. Sorry, but I've seen a lot of budding artists throw their hands in the air because their brand spanking new tablet didn't help them produce better art. :/

Because I don't have tablet I have drawing and scanning images.
I posted question if in another section of this forum if anyone ever used USB Cyber Pad but got no response yet.
I like the pad idea because I can draw on any paper without scanning and also use it for notes and writing without having to scan things in.
But until then I just stick to paper, scanner and art programs until I figure out what I am doing and how to afford something else.
I do most things by mouse.
I even drew this by mouse and few effects

I have a 4x6 intuos3 by wacom. Works great for SL work. You can see things ive created with help of my graphic tablet in my clothing store. Theyre great for shading and drawing out new clothing templates.

Where I bought my wacom from they allow you to return it in 21 days I think it was, so if you find its too small maybe you can return yours. But for what I do, the 4x6 works perfect. (That is working with 512x512 pixel textures for SL)

Actually, look on http://dealspl.us, I'm sure you can find a cheaper tablet. I honestly suggest buying the cheapest one you can find first, they seeing if you like using it. Over time if you think you can't live without it, then you should upgrade to bigger and better.

The reason I say this, is that many of my friends over the years have seen me drawing on my tablet and associate it with some sort of mystical "it'll make me draw good" magic. Then they go out and buy an intuos and the next time I'm over at their house it's being used as a $300 coaster.



Also to get better control, I suggest drawing circles over and over. You'll be able to train your eyes to the screen and develop fluidity in your hand movements. It'll also help you get used to your canvas area.

Yep. I`ve run into this time and time again.

One still has to have artistic ability for the tablet to be of any use. Its not a magic bullet but it sure does help.

Does it relieve the cramping in the forearm when drawing that the mouse causes? I'm not what most would say an artist........but mechanically I can draw fairly well. Would a tablet actually help someone like me?

YES!


Also I have read stories about how people who are not artists buy tablets to surf the web with as it relieves their carpel tunnel.

I disagree. If your first experience with tablets is anything other than a wacom, you will conclude that they suck and then give up on tablets. I have in my life known only one person who was satisfied with his cheapo tablet (ie. preferred using it over working with a mouse,) and I'm around digital artists a lot.

As for the problem of people buying an expensive tablet thinking it'll help them and then it doesn't, this is a pretty easy problem to head off. Just look at your freehand drawing skills on paper. If you can draw a decent picture using a pencil on paper, then a wacom will help. If you cannot draw on paper, then don't buy a wacom because it won't help; step 1 is learning how to draw.

Actually, the MS TabletPC spec requires manufactures to use the Wacom TabletPC digitizer screen. So in other words, the TabletPC is using the Wacom tablet technology. Also, I find people often don't realize, but, the TabletPC is not a touch screen, say, like a PDA or a Treo or whatever. It utilizes an RF pen, the same as the Wacom.

Don't lose your pen because you can't use your finger nail!!!!

h.

Interesting. Thanks for the info. A little Googling seems to confirm that most Tablet PC screens are made by Wacom. I did find one or two that appeared to be made by other manufacturers though, and simply said "based on Wacom technology". I'd be willing to bet there's probably a quality difference there.

The other thing I found is that even the genuine Wacom Tablet PC screens do not have comparable specs to the Intuos tablets or the Cintiq screens, and are only maybe half comparable to the latest Graphire tablets. From what I've found, Tablet PC screens made by Wacom before April 2007 had just 256 levels of pressure sensitivity. The newer ones now have 512, which brings them up to the level of the Graphire4. Intuos and Cintiq devices by comparison have double that sensitivity, 1024 pressure levels.

Another thing to take into consideration besides just pressure is input tracking resolution. I couldn't find any listed specs on this for either the Tablet PC screens or the Cintiq, so I don't know if it's limited to the number of pixels on the screen or if it's independant. I do know, however, that Intuos 3 tablets have an extremely fine resolution of 5080 lpi. I think Graphire 4 has 2540 lpi, and I know that the Graphire 3 had 2032. I very much doubt that the Tablet PC screens have that kind of tracking (and I don't really know if they would or wouldn't benefit from it anyway).

The other thing is tilt. Do Tablet PC screens sense tilt in addition to pressure like the Intuos and Cintiq do, or is it just pressure alone like with the Graphire? I wasn't able to find a definite answer on Tablet PC tilt, which leads me to believe the answer is no. I'd be pleasantly surprised to hear otherwise, but I'm not holding my breath.

So, I guess this is a good news/bad news discovery, at least as far as I'm concerned. The good news is that Tablet PC screens are probably a lot better than I had thought. The bad news (but not unexpected news) is that they're still nowhere near as sensitive as an Intuos, probably not as good as a Cintiq, and at best may be sort of comparable Graphire. As I've said repeatedly though, the Graphire is certainly not a bad device, so if the Tablet PC screens are indeed closely comparable to it, that's a good thing (although not as good as it could be).

Thanks again for the info, Hiro.