Big land screens

I think I know the answer, but I'm not sure exactly why.

I have two large screens up to cover a neighbors banlines. One screen is a regular image and the lines do not show through. The other was done with AlphaChannels, but only the top edge is "clear." The lines show through the regular part.

Is this just the way it is, or can I do something different to hide the banlines?

I'm quite confused with your examples...could you please post a screenie. Thanks.

I presume you have an array of 10 x 10 x 0.01 prims making up that wall screen. What is happening is that the butted edges of these prims are showing through the flat faces because of the alpha sorting glitch. Both have 32-bit textures on them.

What you want to do is to select all the prims, choose "Select texture", which will then highlight all the prim faces, and then de-select all the faces that you want to have visible (IE: The large flaf faces on your side of the wall, or possibly on both sides of the wall). That will leave just the edges and possibly the back side of the wall highlighted. Now apply a 100% alpha texture to all those edges, and your seams will vanish.

Image attached.

If you want to hide the banlines completely, you shouldn't use a see-through texture. You'll have to create your own backdrop, disguising the situation.

Am I right in saying that you want to completely hide the banlines? If so, you'll have to use a non-see-through texture.

There is no way to just hide the banlines, and still see through to their land...unless you can super-cleverly create a texture that matches where the banline text is...and blends the text in a discrete manner.

*shrugs*

I suppose I either don't understand the alpha channels or I'm doing it wrong. I thought only the part I make invisible is see-through, not the rest. The part I did make invisible isn't totally invisible, yet other ones I have done are. So I think I might have done this one wrong.

So much to learn. I'll keep working on it, or change it totally to a regular texture (ah, so much easier.)

Ah! OK, it was the ban lines themselves you didn't want to see, and not the seams in your wall.

No, you'll have to use a non-alpha texture for your wall. Ban lines and hover text are both treated as alpha textured when the client renders them, and have the same sorting problems when it comes to trying to "cover" them.

I *think* there is a client-side option somewhere in debug where you can completely turn off visibility of the banlines. If you're just relaxing on your parcel, you could try using that so you don't see the banlines. Of course, you'll want to turn it back on when moving about, so you have some warning about other ban lines as you travel.

I've never figured out how to "not see" ban lines. I can make the screens without seams, that's not a problem. In my picture those aren't seams, just two different screens with a blank area in between. I'm a very slow (and confused) builder.

Yes, much to learn.. part of the fun in SL for me. If you want a clear texture that hides what's directly behind it, you need to use the invisibility prim refresh script. A simple clear texture will act only as if it were a window. Create and place your walls, then drop this script in...


// Invisibility Prim Refresh v1.1a
// by Beatfox Xevious
// last updated Oct. 21, 2004

refresh()
{
llSetTexture("38b86f85-2575-52a9-a531-23108d8da837", ALL_SIDES);
llSleep(30);
llSetTexture("e97cf410-8e61-7005-ec06-629eba4cd1fb", ALL_SIDES);
}

default
{
state_entry()
{
llSetPrimitiveParams([PRIM_BUMP_SHINY, ALL_SIDES, PRIM_SHINY_NONE, PRIM_BUMP_BRIGHT]);
llOffsetTexture(0.468, 0.0, ALL_SIDES);
llScaleTexture(0.0, 0.0, ALL_SIDES);
llSetAlpha(1.0, ALL_SIDES);
llSetTimerEvent(5);
}

timer()
{
if ((integer)llGetWallclock() % 60 < 10)
{
refresh();
}
}
}

Johan, that totally did not work. I made a small sample wall, made it all transparent then put the "landscape" texture on one side. Then I added the script. First the textured side went greenish/grayish, then it was invisible. And not only invisible but it made all sorts of other objects with transparencies totally transparent. I can now see through the screen that is at the edge of my property.

Sample pic attached.

What Johan gave you is an "Invisiprim Script". It's proper use is to hide part of an avatar body or alpha-textured prim that is behind or within the prim that has that script applied to it. The invisiprim itself becomes invisible, as do 32-bit textured prims inside pr beyond it. When someone makes a pair of high-heeled shoes, that is how they do it. The invisiprim hides the avatar foot and the default "heel shape" created with the avatar sliders, while showing certain 24-bit textured prims in the prim shoe.

It won't hide the ban lines the way you want, however.

I'll check next time I go in-world, and see if I can find the debug menu setting for hiding ban lines. I am sure someone in the forums said there is a way to do that.

Idunna, what Ceera's been saying, but in a high-level way, is that even though your screen with the alpha texture is only partially transparent, there is an anomaly/bug in Second Life that occurs when you're facing layers of objects with alpha textures, and banlines are basically walls of alpha textures themselves. If one alpha prim is covering another, the client has trouble obscuring the one in back, even when behind portions of the front object's texture that are opaque, which is why the banlines are showing through. (Hmm, I don't think I explained it any more clearly. *shrug*)

I have a feeling the only way you'll achieve your goal of obscuring the banline is using non-alpha textures, but Ceera probably knows better than I do.

P.S. Is there a preferences or debug option to hide banlines? I'm always learning about UI features that have always been there.

Wildefire, I'm finally getting it. I was under the assumption that the entire piece wasn't necessarily "transparent," but it obviously is.

I know I can rework that by using a solid primwall behind it (solid on my side, invisible on the outside.)

It sure takes a lot of practice to get this stuff right.

The alpha bug/anomaly isn't a Second Life issue--it's an OpenGL issue. Linden Labs can do zero to fix this...unless they choose to run SL on DirectX as opposed to OpenGL...which...isn't optimal, nor would it make sense--but that's a whole other can of worms.

Here are your options:

1. Live with the banlines--get used to them, the same way you did with telephone poles.

2. Create your own 2D backdrop to completely mask the situation.

3. One interesting method is to take a wide-angle snap shot of that particular direction...then in Photoshop rubber stamp the red text out. Then upload this texture, and apply it to a large set of prims--of course you have to have many prims, in which case you'll have to do some texture lining-up.

4. Instead of creating a huge image like in example #2, only create stips of prims that line up against the red text itself...texture these thin strips with seemingly matching foliage.

lol...OK...so, forget 2, 3 amd 4...stick with choice 1.

ps. perhaps in the CLIENT menu you can find something.

Actually, I'm pretty sure DirectX apps have the same glitch. I could be wrong since I've never actually modeled on a DirextX platform though. I just know that when playing DirextX games, I do see that things like plants and such are often done the same way as in SL, with alpha textures on intersecting planes. This suggests that the glitch is present because it would be difficult for that type of modeling to work without it.

Not that it's really relevant here since OpenGL is what SL uses, but out of curiosity, does anyone have any experience with texturing for DirectX? If so, can you confirm whether or not the sorting glitch is present in it? Just wondering. Thanks.

So that's why my prim lashes show through my bangs?

So if its an OpenGL glitch does that mean it wont ever get fixed? Or do the openGL people fix these kinds of things?

I've modeled and textured for a few games, and I don't recall ever running across alpha supremacy issues.

*shrugs*

In DX game, because they model plants via the X method, does not mean that the code is similar, or that they are creatively avoiding this glitch...creating a bush with the X method is just...the most resourceful way of dealing with it.

Any kind of alpha z-fighting is due to OpenGL (which SL runs on), and this issue will never be resolved. The problem is MUCH bigger than Second Life--believe me, gaming folks have been discussing this for....centuries!

Yes. And it's why the digitigrade feet on furries and the high heeled shoes and a whole lot of other things have odd transparent areas near them at times. For example, I tried to wear one of my favorite hairstyles with a new furry avatar, and found that because the forehead of the avatar head used an alpha texture as part of how it allowed you infinite versitility in coloring the eyes, and because the hair also used an alpha texture, the two wouldn't work toghether. I kept seeing the parts of the hair prims that should have been hidden inside the skull.

It's very unlikely that the alpha-sorting issue in OpenGL will ever get fixed. Tons of things now rely on that glitch to function normally, like almost all the prim plants and flames in most games. If they ever fixed it now, a lot of game content would have to be completely re-designed.