Adobe CS4 and Sculpties

Ok so I got adobe CS4, I figured out how to convert my sculpt to obj. I figured out how to paint on my sculpt. Unfortunately I don't think I am doing it right. Maybe someone can point me to a walkthrough or something? When I save my work, and import it into sculpty space it's not even remotely close to what it should be. I don't think I'm saving the texture right or something.

Thanks,
Tharkis

Adobe CS4 includes 13 programs. I would assume the one you're asking about is Photoshop?

To answer your question, we need some more information. First, what modeling program are you using to create the sculpty? Second, what exactly is happening when you preview the painted model in SculptySpace? "Not what it should be" could mean anything. If you're not sure how to describe the problem, how about some screenshots?


From what you've said so far, my best guess is that OBJ model isn't UV'ed properly. If that's the case, then your paint strokes would be falling on the wrong parts of the canvas.

For Maya users, this is a common issue, since conversion from NURBS to polygons doesn't always yield clean UV results. Instead of being perfectly uniform, which is what's required for sculpties, the UV layout be proportional to the actual polygon size configuration. Smaller polys will get less canvas space than larger ones. For non-sculpty modeling, this is how you'd want it. But for sculpties it doesn't do.

Before you export to OBJ, you need to fix the UV map. In the UV Texture Editor, set the grid to 32x32 divisions, and then snap the UV's to the grid. If you're using a better UV mapping plugin like Unrella, this will be all of two or three clicks and it's done. But if all you've got is the stock UV Texture Editor to work with, it'll take you a few minutes.

If you're using something other than Maya, I probably won't know the exact steps to tell you how to fix the problem (assuming the problem I'm thinking of is even the right one, which it very well might not be). Once you've named your program, I'm sure someone here will be able to help you more thoroughly.

Yeah sorry I meant to say Adobe Photoshop Essentials CS4.. But for some reason my brain didn't produce the whole title. Dunno why.

As for what program the model was created in.. I have no idea, they are sculpt maps I have purchased and am trying to create textures for them. As I make them myself, I'll probably be creating them myself in AC3D. But for this instance, I have both AC3D and Wings3d to work with currently.

In order to convert the tga to a the obj, I have been saving it to a .bmp in photoshop, then importing it into Wings 3d to save it to an .obj so I can bring it in to photoshop.

I didn't think it would be so hard to texture a fricken sculpt. Is there a better way than what I'm doing here? I'd prefer to paint directly on the model if I could, but if there's an easier way I am all ears.

Thanks for the reply Chosen.

I don't mean to give you a hard time, but that's "extended", not "essentials", right?




OK, gotcha. If that's how you're doing it, then the UV mapping should be OK. I'm not really a Wings or AC3D user, so I could be mistaken, but I don't see any reason why the method you described should yield any incorrectness in the UV layout.




It shouldn't be so hard. I'm not sure what's going wrong. Again, screenshots would be helpful.

As for a "better way" or "easier way", that's debatable, but there certainly are other ways. One option is simply to throw a test pattern texture onto the sculpty, so you can see what part of the canvas goes where on the model, and then do your painting in 2D. Another would be to use a more fully featured modeling program, like Blender, Maya, or Max, to generate and render baked textures procedurally, rather than painting by hand. And of course, you can use any combination of the above, in addition to painting directly on the model. It doesn't have to be an either/or thing.




No problem. Always happy to help if I can. It doesn't sound like I've been of much help so far in this particular case, though. Sorry I don't have better answers for you.

I think my problem is with what I am doing in photoshop. Maybe I am not following the correct procedures to paint and export the file from photoshop.

And yes, it's extended.. I'm having a hard day apparently.

I'd like to avoid painting in 2d if at all possible, and will look in to other software but I am not really willing to shell out the cash after buying CS4..

Is there a tutorial that would explain the painting and exporting from cs4 somewhere?

You said you already know how to paint on the model, right? There's no special trickery to it after that. Simply save out what you've painted as a TGA (or any of the other formats SL can accept), and you should be all set.

Again, if you'd care to post some screenshots, we might be able to get closer to pinpointing the problem.

Ok here's a screenshot of Photoshop and what the result looks like in sculptyspace.

In Photoshop
In SculptySpace

Let me know what you think?

looking at the screenshot of the texture map in sculptyspace, I think I've spotted your problem. it looks like you're saving the obj as a texture file, which doesn't work, as you just end up with a picture of the object rather than the texture you're looking for.

If you look down on the layers, you will see where it says diffuse, then has a map listed under it, double click on THAT map to open it, that will actually be your texture.

OK, I think I see what's going on. You're applying the full PSD image from Photoshop (or maybe a TGA copy of it) as your texture in SculptySpace instead of just the actual texture image.

When you're using Photoshop for 3D texturing, don't think of the PSD's the same way you're used to from any 2D work you've done in the past. In this context, think of the PSD not so much as an image, but more like a folder holds everything you're working with. The model, its material(s), and its texture(s) are embedded inside the PSD, as individual sub-components.

Here's a good way to envision how it's categorized. Let's say you wanted to view the model in your 3D application. You wouldn't try to open up the PSD in order to do that, right? You'd open the OBJ. That's basic intuition, since you already know the PSD's are not 3D models.

For textures, the same principle applies, even though it may be less obvious that it should. When you want to view the texture in your 3D app, you don't bring in the whole PSD (or even a differently formatted copy of the PSD). What you do is you extract the texture out of the PSD, and save it as a separate image. It is that texture image that you bring into your 3D app.

This may feel a little counter-intuitive at first. As far as you knew before, PSD's were images, and textures were images. So your intuition tells you to just output the PSD to a texture-friendly format, and you'll be good to go. But that's not how it works in this kind of case. Again, when doing this type of work, the PSD is a container that holds the model and its textures. It is not itself a texture.

So, how do you extract the texture out of the PSD? First, take a look at the Layers panel in Photoshop. You can see it's hierarchical. Layer 1 is a 3D layer. Indented underneath it are all the sub-components it contains. The first heirarchy level inward is another container, called Textures. As you've probably guessed by now, inside that is where all your actual texture files are listed. It happens you only have one in there in this particular example, but for more complicated texturing jobs, there may be many. You can see the one texture file you've got in there is labeled "Diffuse", and it is titled "default - Default Texture".

So you know, the word "diffuse" in 3D lingo means "color". All textures we upload to SL are diffuse maps. We don't tend to call them that in our everyday language as SL users, but when using other 3D applications, Photoshop included, that's what they'll often be called.

Double-click on "default - Default Texture", and the texture image will open up as a PSB file. From here, "default - Default Texture" will behave just like any other image. You can add layers to it, paint on it, give it an alpha channel, whatever. You can also save out copies of it to other formats. These copies will not be embedded inside the PSD. They'll be totally separate images. That's exactly what we're going to do now.

Save a copy of "default - Default Texture" as a TGA. I'd suggest giving it a better name, but call it whatever you want. This new TGA is the texture you want to apply to your model in SculptySpace.

You should be all set now, but if there's anything you didn't get, ask away.




On a side note, I couldn't help noticing that the model looks pretty different in each program. In Photoshop, the sides of the cuboid look fairly straight, but in SculptySpace, the whole thing is pretty curvy. Is that just because we're seeing it from another angle, or is it really different?

Chosen,

Yes they were at different angles.

On an up note, your description was absolutely perfect. I really appreciate the help. After I read it, it sorta clicked in my head and I was like "Oh wow this is really easy!". There's still touch up and details to be added but hey, looks like it's gonna work.

Now here's my second question, say I want to add some more layers. I assume I have to merge them all before I can save them as a texture map?

I'm glad it's making sense to you now. Yeah, it's a lot easier than it seems at first.

To answer your new question, treat the embedded PSB just as you would any other PSD. You can merge the layers before exporting to a flat texture format like TGA or PNG if you really want to, but you don't have to. In fact, I recommend you don't. Keep your layered work preserved in case you ever want to go back and make changes. Export your TGA or PNG as a copy, and you won't have to do any flattening.

Thanks again Chosen, you've been invaluable. It might have taken me months to learn how to bake textures in Maya or some other software. This is going to make my life much easier.

Is there a way to save the entire shebang so if I want to make changes down the road, I can open up the file and see both the model and the texture? Or will I have to open the obj every time and apply the texture. If so, how do I apply the texture later on?

Secondly the model you see above is not exactly how it will look in SL. When I import it into SL, I will have to squeeze it so that it looks flatter. The sculpt you see is actually that of a blade. Do you think I should modify the dimensions of the object in Photoshop to match the dimensions of the final project in SL before I start to texture?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just sort of new to the sculpty game.

Thanks again.

You're most welcome.




Yup. Just save the PSD, and all its contents will be saved along with it. The OBJ you imported, and all its materials and textures will be included.

Also, as a precaution, it's best to save any working PSB's at regular intervals. If you run low on memory, PS has an unfortunate tendency to dissasociate the texture from the model. Changes end up getting lost. Save often as you're working, to mimimize the risk.

If you've got 8GB of RAM or more, and you're using the 64-bit version of PS, it's pretty much error-free. The 32-bit version, under 4GB of RAM or less, tends to screw up all too often.




You won't have to do it every time, but just so you know how in case you want to, the answer is simply paste (or place) any imagery you want in the texture PSB document. If you've got an existing texture you want to apply, just bring it into the PSB, the same way you'd bring any other imagery into a PSD.





I would. You'll need to do that in your modeling program, though. Photoshop cannot adjust geometry.





No need to apologize. This is what the forums are here for. If I weren't answering, I'd like to think someone else would be.

Actually there is a way to adjust the geometry within Photoshop. You can scale the X, Y and Z axis. Unfortunately I am at work right now and I can't tell you which tool does it, but it is indeed possible. You can't do it by modifying a bounding box as you would in SL, but you can input the numbers up in the top toolbar.

Again, I'm not sure what this will do to my texture when I get it into SL.

When I get home I'll let you know what I did.

The button for the 3d tools on the left will bring up a new panel up top. The last button on the right is the scale tool.

Here's a picture

Ah, that's what you meant. Sorry I didn't catch your meaning the first time around. That doesn't really change the model itself, just the way Photoshop draws it. I'd thought you were asking about actually adjusting the geometry of the model.

Regardless, to answer your question, it shouldn't affect the texturing at all. Unless you alter the UV map or the polygon configuration, neither of which you can't do in Photoshop, you're not really changing a thing.