A new Avatar mesh? Should it be....

Should the new avatar mesh be completely new (home brewed from the ground up) or should LL simply buy out someone (ie Poser, IMVU etc).

Both of these have their advantages: A new model would be fresh and allow for real skirts, non painted on shirts, actual package (or none because of the genitals industry) and some many other fixes.

A pre-existing model has an already existed mesh and way to build it. For all of There's ugliness and horror, it is an obj mesh with a simple uv. Would the Poser model benefit from being bought by LL and brought in world? Yes, I believe it would. So would any other preexisting model.

The disadvantages are also obvious. Current models have copyrights and other issues. The poser community would not be happy if their model became the default for SL. People steal from them as it is. This would open the floodgates. Same with IMVU or any other existing mesh.
A new mesh would need new UVs and programs for mapping. These are always community efforts and would lag behind the actual release. Meanwhile alot of clothes would become useless.

So, what is your opinion? What tips do you have?

I'd vote for a brand new, Linden Lab made avatar mesh. I don't think we should infringe upon any other communities for something we're able to create ourselves.

I would be very happy to have something in between what we have now and Victoria 4 for Poser (a girl can dream, can't she?). Heck, I'd be happy to have Little Miss Ruth still, just subdivided some more to smooth out weird bumps and jagged edges!

The things on my list i would like to see improved or changed:
- Smoother joints (I hate it when my knees or elbow turn inside out!)
- Better UV mapping (that could be implimented now... but not likely)
- The ability to edit the av mesh outside of SL to create better fitting clothing.

The last two are what I would really want most of all. Form fitting, fluid movement to clothing, no more prims as a way of "faking" it, I want the real deal! I don't even mind if it's not perfect, I just want it as a place to start. Death to bubble-butt skirts, and men having to wear skin tight tee's, I say!

I think it was Chip who originally said the transition between old and new wouldn't be too hard if approached the right way. Keep the old with the new, make a simple way to switch between them. If it was promoted enough before it happened, the whole community would be aware that things were changing for the better. I don't think it would sabbotage creators, in fact, I think it would have the opposite effect. We would see the market boom as creators switch over to the new system. But I guess, leave the old option there as well and don't phase it out for *years*.

That's my two cents on the matter
What are some other peoples thoughts?

If they ever replace the existing mesh it should be with one designed specifically for SL from the ground up. Just plugging in a new model obtained elsewhere wouldn't really cut it, unless LL removes much of the flexibility of the shape system or fundamentally changes the way it works. Creating one mesh and all the morph targets to work for the full range of male and female shapes would be a herculean task. Contracting or buying out a specialist would certainly be one way to go but I don't think there's an existing model set out there currently that they could just plug in.

They really wouldn't have to obsolete all the old content as long as any new avatar mesh carries two sets of UVs - the new improved UV mapping, and the old fit to the new av (which wouldn't be easy but can definitely be done). They could just put a checkbox in so that clothing and skin textures can be set to use old or new. All existing items would default to the old mapping. The whole changeover could be relatively painless if handled right - that is, provided LL ever actually does it.

If they'd just done the UV maps correctly in the first place on the model they had, we possibly wouldn't even be discussing this issue.

The UV maps around the crotch area are just badly set up. It would be hard to have done a worse job on it.

You're partially right, Kalel, but it's not just the UV's that are the problem. There's also a ton of polygon inefficiency with the current av mesh. The eyeballs, for example, have several times as many polys as are needed, while areas like the crotch, shoulders, etc., have far too few. Even if they'd done a better job with the UV layout, we'd still need a better mesh.

In any case, to answer the OP's question, I'd say it could successfully go either of two ways. Probably the best thing to do would be to build something brand new, for all the reasons Chip stated. But if I had to pick something pre-existing, I'd go with a low-poly version of DAZ's Victoria. She's well-suited for an environment like SL, with relatively little modification needed.

But whatever happens, I'll stress that the answer is not to replace the existing mesh. It's to introduce another one along side it. To eliminate the old one outright would be to destroy instantly the years of hard work that clothing and skin makers have already done. No one should want that. Leave the old avatar just as it is, add a new one, and let each user decide which one to use at any given moment. Gradually, as better and better content is made for the new one, people would naturally use the old one less and less.

They could replicate the old UV mapping on a new model in addition to supporting a new and better UV mapping for the new one. I really think that'd be the best way to go. There's absolutely no technological reason why a new av model couldn't support both at the same time. In fact if it was done well, old stuff could look better on a new av than it does on the current one.

/me votes for LL to hire Chip and Chosen to make a new avatar model.

I agree with this approach, also Chosen's suggestion of a reduced version of Victoria could work
as well.
DAZ Reduced Resolution V3

While SL probably has enough talent to create a new ground up AV mesh, I would guess they are
not set up for that. Creating fully articulated high quality meshes for this use is very specialized.
But that does not mean that SL needs to buy anyone out either. I think they could easily just
contract one to be specially designed improved version for SL from DAZ or Poser.
Personally I am pretty sure that the DAZ series of figures is more widespread in use of 3d figures.
Although they are into all kinds of things now, figures are how they made their name.
I would be a little surprised if at the very least some discussion has not already taken place.
I am just guessing here tho, not trying to roil speculation.

Also the figure maker would not be worried about getting ripped off as your base figure comes
naked and with only a basic skin version, just as in SL you need to spend more money to get the great skins and clothes etc.

It's not just the UV map the joints and attachment points are borky, try wearing a new prim on your left apper arm and then notice if you wear another one on the right upper arm one is lower than the other by 100mm