How to edit eyes?

I have some eyes, with full permissions, that I want to edit. They are in 'eye' format and I don't have the texture as a separate file - is there a way of grabbing the eyes as textures? Apart from what I am doing at the moment which is doing a printscreen of each eye in Appearance?

Thanx

Cat x

If you don't have the textures, you don't have the textures. If you want them, ask the creator. If he or she says no, live with it. Please respect the rights of the talented artist who put countless hours of labor into the texture.

Remember, when you buy an item in SL, you're not buying the item itself, just a limited use right to it. The extent of your rights are determined by the SL permissions system, by any other licensing information the creator may see fit to include, and by applicable RL laws.

Yes, there are lots of ways to steal textures (screenshots are just the beginning), but that doesn't mean you should. There are lots of relatively easy ways to knock over a convenience store too, but I'm betting you wouldn't do that. Stealing a texture is the same thing as stealing anything else. It's wrong, and it's illegal.

You have two options here. One is simply to make your own textures from scratch, and then you'll never have to worry about infringing anyone else's copyright. The second is to do what I said at the beginning, and ask for rights to those textures that you want. If the creator says yes, great, but if he or she says no, do the right thing, and leave it at that.

OK - the lecture's over now is it? Let me get this straight, if I don't have the textures then I don't have the textures - remarkable! The insight, the clarity of thought...

How dare you presume I am trying to steal someone elses work! There's no point me repeating myself because it's up there for all to read - these are my property, full rights have been bought and paid for! I haven't just bought the eyes, I have bought the raw material. I am becoming an experienced builder/maker of quality clothing but it is often more sensible to do a makeover on an existing item than start from scratch for the sake of it.

I have grabbed the textures now using screenprint, I just wanted to know if there was a better more efficient way of getting these texture that I own! For your information I am in the process of turning these flawed eyes (that I have bought and paid for and belong to me) into ones with attractive reflections and highlights. The 'talented artist' you refer to is ME.

I put an enormous amount of work into everything I make and have benefited enormously from the advice and guidance of manty people in SL and these forums, including yourself, but resent the assumption made here and the general high handed and arrogant attitude. I steal nothing and give much to this community.

Yours

Cat

Whoa, settle down there, Sport. If you indeed are one of the "talented artists" to whom I was referring, you should be thanking me for my efforts to dissuade theft, as it's for your protection as much as for anyone else's. A simple "Thanks for the warning, but I don't believe it applies to me, and here's why..." would have sufficed just fine.

Now, to get back on topic, you said you don't have the eye texture itself as a separate file right? Those were your exact words, right? You said you bought the eyes, the finished product, not the individual components that make up the product.

Remember what I said about limited use rights? Well, there's your first limit right there. You didn't buy the texture. If you did, you'd have the file, and we wouldn't be having this discussion. What you bought was the right to use the eyes on your avatar. You didn't buy the right to capture or modify the eyes' texture in any way.

You don't own the eyes themselves, and certainly don't own the texture. All you "own" is the limited right I've just described.

Think of it kind of like this. Own a book in RL? Well, when you bought the book, you bought the finished product as a whole. You have the right to read it, to carry it around, to show it to your friends, to burn it, or to do anything else you want with the whole product. What you can't do is copy any of its contents and put them in your own book. That would be violating the rights of the author.

It's the same thing with those eyes. If all you bought was the finished "eyes" product, you don't have any rights to the component texture whatsoever. I'll repeat what I said in the beginning. If you want the texture, ask the creator for it. If he or she says no, you have to live with that.

Yes, there are lots and lots of ways to extract the texture illegally, but no, I'm not going to tell you what any of them are. Please, no one else do either.

Look, I can appreciate that you feel those eyes are currently inferior to what you would do with them if you could, but that's not the point. It's not about how you'd prefer they look. It's about the fact that the rights of the IP owner outweigh your limited rights as the IP consumer. If you didn't buy a full-perms copy of the texture texture, then you don't have any right to it whatsoever. Just because you want something doesn't mean you automatically get to have it.

So, for the third time now, either make your own texture from scratch, ask the creator if you can acquire the texture from him or her, or leave it alone. Those are your only options. Don't infringe on the rights of the creator of those eyes, whether it be through screenshots or through any other technique. It's a pretty simple concept.

It sounds like you have bought a "business in a box" set. The fact the eyes are full perm means you can resell them, as many times as you want, and set the permissions you want for the next owner (copy/no transfer, or no copy/transfer).

Unless the original seller sends you the textures, you have no legal way to modify the textures.

The "modify" permission on the eyes only allow you to *tint* them with the appearance sliders.

If it's, like I think, a business in a box: I'd contact the seller, and ask him full perm textures.

On a related point, I have a glowing eyes set I'd like to attach to my eyes, but the dam things keep following my mouse even when on a pose ball, so can't get them positioned right, any ideas?

Sport? Who do you think you're talking to matey? I should thank YOU for lecturing ME! It's you that should be apologising you arrogant person! Your rant is based on a string of incorrect assumptions. The only reason I don't have the textures is because the creator no longer has them - or any other SL items - OK - understand? You see your wrong assumption about ownership there - am I getting through - is it sinking in?

And your patronising 'real world' examples are laughable! I may be a newbie compared to you but I have built and am running a successful SL business and working on launching a second - 4 months old is almost middle aged in SL!

I DO own the eyes - how many times do I need to tell you that? You can repeat yourself as many times as you like but it doesn't make you right! I own every little pixel and if the creator hadn't long disposed of the original artwork I would have it...

For christ sake - I am not looking to do ANYTHING illegal - how many times!?!? It was a simple query - either there is a legal and proper way to extract a component of something that you own, lock stock and pixel, or there isn't! The artwork is MINE - get over it!

I suggest we end this 'discussion' here - my 'problem' no longer exists and I have been patronised and insulted quite enough for one day - thanks

Cat x

PS No Raindrop, I understand your point, but this is not any 'business in a box' deal - the items in question belong solely to me... I wouldn't touch a 'business in a box' with someone elses barge pole ;o)

...

Cat...
To be clear, unless you MADE the eye youreself in a program such as photoshop or gimp, saved it and uploaded itno sl for 10 lindens, then edited appearance and applied the texture to the eye and saved it....you do not OWN that eye texture. If you purchased the eye from a vendor, thats what you bought, an eye set, not an eye texture.

I am not trying to talk down to you,I simply think it is unclear here weather you think because you bought something made with a texture that means you have the right to that texture, because thats not how it works. If you buy a shirt, you bought the shirt, not the texture on the shirt. Even if the item, an eye or shirt, is full permissions it does not give you access to the texture, it only give you the access to edit the item, copy the item and yes even resell the item. But unless you get a full permission copy of the texture, which would be in a seperate file, then you have no rights to the texture.

Yes there are ways to illegally get the texture, and this is frowned upon by pretty much everyone. However, if you are talented enough to add shine and shading to the eye you purchased, it sounds to me like you would be more then capable of making an eye yourself, the template is pretty simple and available in the sl downloads. When I first started, my whole business was nothing but eyes.

Sorry if I have misunderstood what you were saying, I'm just trying to clarify a bit what you acctually get when purchasing a textured item.

Polly

Polly - I'm sorry but you are incorrect, that is NOT the only way you can own something in SL. Just as in RL it is quite possible to negotiate purchase of the intellectual rights to an item as I have done. These items are mine now, no-one elses, no-one else is allowed to sell them, not even the originator, there is NO vendor, If I had not taken over ownership of these they would, in practical terms, simply cease to exist, if they weren't nailed to the perch they'd be pushing up daisies... (sorry, my little joke) I bought the sole rights to these items from the creator, a person who no longer has an interest in them or SL and no longer has the artwork. I just don't know how I can state this any more clearly.

OK, an analogy (Chosen likes these) If I make a 1 prim chair and texture it with artwork I have created myself - I am fully entitled to sell/give you the sole rights to that chair such that I have no further interest or ownership. OK, in SL this would involve you making an exact copy in order to establish your name as creator, but once this had been done WITH my complete permission and assistance, you would then own this item and be entitled to sell as many as you like. You would be able to modify and do whatever you like to it because you would be, to all intents and purposes, the creator - although you had not designed or constructed the original item.

I am skilled in the use of Photoshop and have some talent as an artist, but would find it difficult to make photo-realistic irises like these... I haven't seen such quality in SL - although, to be honest, it's such a tiny item no-one will ever notice without the use of Ctrl+0

I am a perfectionist, I am working on a line of dresses (soon to appear in my own shop as well as in SLX) and have uploaded the alphas and textures (my own design) numerous times because no preview will let me examine the actual item in minute enough detail and if just one of the stitches is crooked... I need to see how it performs walking, sitting, flying etc. An awful lot of clothes in SL are absolute crap...

For your information, I use the excellent Textures R Us vendor which is free from their store! I also use their free HUD to sort my textures.

Cat x

Tegg - Try [ALT] + left click on your avatar. It makes them face forward. I don't remember if it keeps the eyes from moving or not.

Cat, I see several options, in decreasing order of potential likleyhood:

1. Contact the creator of the texture in question, ask them to send a copy of the original image file off-world, e.g. via e-mail.
   
   
2. If the creator no longer has a copy of the original image stored locally on their computer, ask them to contact Linden Labs, explain the situation, and see if it is possible to transfer "creatorship" of the texture in question to you, and put a copy of that texture in your inventory. This will permit you to save it to your local computer through the Save Texture As... option under the File menu, which is only available to the creator.
   
   
3. If the creator no longer has an SL account, and you have no other way to contact them, contact Linden Labs, ask them if they can contact the creator (if they still have contact information on-file), and discuss this situation with them.
   

If you have negociated the ownership and the original creator does not have the original PSDs, then there is no way to get the original texture beyond doing the screenshot technique you have tried (other than an exploit I won't go into here). LL will not help you transfer ownership.

Okay, show me where in your original post you stated any of that. You can't because you didn't. If your story is true, I see no reason why you would have gotten so offended by my response to your first post, or why you wouldn't have explained the situation right from the start. Frankly, I just don't believe you.

It's not that your story isn't plausible; it certainly is. It's the way you've gone about all this. In the beginning it looked very much like you were asking for tips on how to circumvent the permissions system in order to capture textures that don't belong to you. Then when you were called out on that, instead of simply saying "that's not what I meant, so let me explain", you freaked out. You got incredibly defensive, you hurled all kinds of accusations around, you pretended you were under attack when you weren't. Sorry, but that's not the behavior innocent people tend to take.

As I said right from the start, if you are indeed a legitimate content creator, then you should appreciate any and all efforts from your fellow community members to dissuade theft. If those efforts unjustly fall in your direction, all it takes to turn it around is one sentence to politely explain why you feel you're in the right.

If you let go of your emotional reactions for a moment, and read my first response here word for word, you'll see that at no time were you ever accused of anything. All I said was "please respect the rights of the creator", "you shouldn't steal", and "do the right thing". If you were already respecting copyright, already not stealing, and already doing the right thing, then all you had to do was say so. A request to do what you're already doing should never be a cause for such a heated outburst.

The only people who get upset when others "lecture", as you put it, about the importance of not stealing are those who have the intention to steal. I can't say for sure if you fit into that category or not, obviously, but all that "how dare you" stuff sure didn't make you look innocent.



Didn't you ask for our discussion to be over? Which is it? Either you want to let this drop or you don't. You can't have it both ways.

Note, I dropped out of this thread immediately after your request to end the discussion. However, since you brought up my name (especially in such a jabbing way), clearly you're inviting me back in.


No argument there, but again, show me where in your original post, or even in any of your replies before this one, where you explained that that's what you were doing. I can't imagine why you wouldn't explain the situation right from the start unless you simply hadn't dreamed it up until now.


There are many here who'd be happy to teach you how to do such things. All you have to do is ask. I'd suggest doing it more politely than you've done so far though.


I wish you luck with your clothing line, and I hope no one steals your textures.


I'm sure LillyBeth appreciates the endorsement.

OK everyone, problem resolved with screen grab from appearance... but thanks for your kind and patient replies...

Chosen - what can I say Sport, you've called me a theif and a liar - you've suggested that I, a person well respected and admired for my skills in SL, would be naive enough to ask this forum, of which I am a long standing user, how to steal textures!!! Duh! You've suggested I ask politely for help doing something I have no need to do. You have been arrogant, condescending and facetious throughout,


Your first 'reply' well, let me just say this: please refrain from interfering with small children! Oh - you won't be offended by that because if you dont do this then you should appreciate any and all efforts from your fellow human beings to dissuade abuse. If those efforts unjustly fall in your direction, all it takes to turn it around is one sentence to politely explain why you feel... etc. Oh and the only people who get offended when told not to abuse children are those that intend to do it!? Uhhh - I don't think so!

Anyway - I can't actually be bothered to read any more - it's my bedtime. You will get an invite to the opening of my store - it will be selling clothing, eyes, jewellery (from another creator selling under his own name) and other items I'm sure...

Oh - I have thanked Lillybeth personally... as I do with all the wonderful people who have helped me in SL... too many to mention here.

)

Cat x

OK everyone, problem resolved with printscreen from appearance... but thanks for your kind and patient replies...

Chosen - what can I say Sport, you've called me a thief and a liar - you have been arrogant, condescending and facetious throughout your lectures - what can I say, life's too short to bear grudges... sleep well and have a nice (second) life.

You will get an invite to the opening of my store - it will be selling dresses, tops, skirts, teeshirts, underwear, swimwear, fantasy clothes... It will have a small but high quality freebie section featuring small packs of quality items and I plan to offer free artwork (created by my own fair hand) to aid clothing design, it may have a jewellery section (from another creator selling under his own name), it will have a large merchandise section for my club (Masquerade - upstairs) mostly free stuff but including a range of teeshirts designed to benefit the individual dancers and DJs who feature on them... oh and a gorgeous selection of glossy photo-realistic eyes and a fun selection of 'novelty' eyes...

I have thanked LillyBeth personally. I'm sure she does value positive feedback and I would like to assure her, should she read this, that I have never stolen a texture or any other SL item in the whole of my (second) life - I built my club using a number of hers, all still in my inventory...



Cat x

Photoreal eye textures are nothing special. After reading through this entire post I'm still wondering - Why all this fuss and angst over copying a simple eye texture that appears to be lost to oblivion!? Ownership aside (since it can't be proven), why not learn how to make eye textures instead of using far from perfect copying methods to try and regain something that no longer exists? Eye textures are some of the simplest to create. The knowledge of how to create an eye texture is worth far more than a single eye texture, no matter how brilliantly executed it was, is it not?

Cat, if you know Photoshop, as you say you do, then go here (http://www.taunt.com/) and create eyes to your heart's content. There are a few tutorials there by Twiddler Therian on making eyes for 3D content. The tutorials are well done and in video format. They're not the exact method I would use, but good to get one started.

This forum is for learning hopefully, and not a place of bitter contempt towards our peers. A lot of content creators that read and post in these forums (especially this one) have themselves been the victims of IP abuse, so it's understandable when eyebrows are raised over questions pertaining to texture extraction. The illegal acquisition and distribution of multiple copies (exact, down to every last 1 and 0) of the original source is what does the most damage to the livelihood of content creators and the trust that we all want to have of one another as a creative community. It does absolutely no good to anyone to bite the hand that feeds since we all, in a sense, are feeding one another (content, ideas, knowledge). I realize I'm preaching to the choir, but anyone here that is not into creating their own content is in the wrong place.

http://images.google.com/images?q=eye

take any of those, and the default Eye template (which is in your library)... and grab photoshop and "go to town." Eye textures should be sideways, with the top of the eye on the left of the image.

(not going to debate ethics. That's the OP's decision to make, not mine).

Namssor - I must correct you and point out that ownership can be proven, if the word of the creator can be taken as proof, and the fuss and angst is a mystery to me. ) Anyway, my eyes are pretty much complete and ironically there is nothing left of the original artwork although I have used it as a springboard to create my own textures. My own comment about no-one even seeing the detail unless they ctrl+0 in - led me to simplify the design and I am very happy with the result now. Thanks for the link to that tutorial although the resulting eye is a pretty basic cartoon style.

I agree with your comments about the forum and do regret reacting so angrily to the slight on my character and honesty. It wasn't the fact that I was being lectured about theft that annoyed me so much as the implication that I was a thief. Hey-ho.

Errr - thanks for showing me how to search for 'eye' in Google Winter ;o) and yes, the template does indicate the correct orientation of said orb )



Cat

IP rights and texute ripping / theft / borrowing(?) is a long debated and very divisive and contentious issue that has gone on in SL for some time, with some VERY public and personal attacks in the past. As a newer resident, you were not here for the drama, so that may be why its a mystery.



Your passive-agressive comments will win you no friends and less help in the foums. Winter was just trying to give direction. Like Mom always said, "If you don't have anything nice to say....."

Oh dear - another insult - you may need to reconsider your definition of 'passive-agressive' Dnel but I presume you thought I was being rude to Winter. I would like to apologise for my part in any missunderstanding and assure both you and Winter if s/he is offended, that this was definately not my intention. I thought the wink ';o)' symbol was a clear indication of the jokey nature of my ironic reply.

I consider myself fairly expert in the everyday use of a computer and have various qualifications to that effect. I am a moderate user of several 'art' programs and a bit of a whiz on t'internet (British comedy reference). I found it amusing therefore to be given a link to a basic search on Google but assumed it was given with the very best of intentions so replied with, I thought, good humour... (I typed it with a friendly, appreciative smile on my face anyway) I hope you will re-consider your interpretation of my reply and take it as such.

Winter's Google link prompts a question actually - I'll put it in a new post though...



Thanks

Cat x

Personally I would take nothing less than a layered watermarked PSD file and a timestamped original uploaded 'full permissions' texture with said watermark intact, both from the same individual, as proof. It sounds like none of those files exist anymore if I read correctly, so proof of ownership is not really possible. Proving ownership of digital media needs to go a bit further than an "I made this" statement since the definition of "original copy" with digital media is as etherial as an infinitely divided slice of pie.

Does the same logic then apply to this link (http://winterpirate.livejournal.com/) ? They're not eye textures, but all the content there must therfore be up for grabs too (like the Go-Go mini racing image).

So I guess this probably belongs in another thread somewhere but I'm too lazy to look for it. A friend of mine saw a 'business in a box' featuring roughly a hundred gowns, all highly detailed flexi stuff, for sale on SLX by a person who is quitting or who has quit SL a while ago. The original 'B in a B' sold for L$49000 (full perms), and then other people subsequently bought and resold it; the current price is something like L$599.

My friend wanted to sell the dresses in his general resale store. He asked what I thought. I said that I thought it was wrong in general; even tho the person is no longer in SL, what is happening now is akin to theft. It would be like copying 'Grapes of Wrath' and then publishing it under your own name, because, hey, who cares, Steinbeck's dead, right?

If I quit SL and made my entire stock available for sale, I think I'd rather it be given out to the general public as freebies, rather than have it all degraded to a point that other people are making a quick buck off of it.

I suggested to my friend that rather than SELL the stuff, he make the dresses available as giveaways in a lucky chair, until he has given away all 100 dresses. That way people can enjoy the dresses, with the original designer still listed as creator, but no one makes actual L$ off of them.

What do you all think? Like I said, I know that this has been hashed and rehashed in the past, but I'm a newbie and missed all the hullaballoo...



Oryx