Obsessed with skinning, getting NOWHERE

Forgive me if this is a stupid question.

I have been through these forums with a fine toothed comb, cross-examined Google, searched all over the Internet, checked out every tutorial, and I cannot find the answer.
All I want to do is make nice skins (mainly faces) and shapes for my SL avatar. I have been trying for 2 months, night and day.

I use (self taught) Photoshop. Every time I upload my new attempts my long-suffering avatar looks as if he has just been in a very bad road accident and sustained massive head trauma. I am starting to feel as if he hates me every time I log into Second Life. I can feel him staring at me accusingly, thinking, "What are you going to inflict on me this time, you sadistic idiot?"

I have no 3d modelling training, and this is probably where the problem lies.
How do you make a good SL avatar's face? How do you stretch 2d features so that they fit onto those UV map texture things? Do all the good skinners use 3rd party software? If so, what software? Maya? Poser? Lightwave? 3dStudio Max? Blender?
I am tearing my own hair out here and pretty soon I'll start to look like my bruised, bald avatar roadkill.

I am so keen to make a decent skin that I am prepared to fork out whatever money it takes to buy whatever program is going to help me achieve this dream which right now is a nightmare.

Tutorials for Dummies, step by step instructions with pictures, guides to software, advice in any and all shapes - every useful hint is welcome.

Thanks...

I can't claim to be anywhere as skilled as a lot of skin makers out there, and my subject matter is often far different from most, but I just rely on Photoshop and the templates for the most part. I will, from time to time, leave DAZStudio open and update a model with the skin i'm working on in order to check for placement and seams, but all of the actual work happens in Photoshop.

That said, I have personally never tried any of the other programs you discussed for the specific use of skin making and cannot say definitively whether or not my work would improve. Unfortunately, the expenses involved for acquiring such software for my Mac exceed the overall worth for me.

There are a few tips I find useful for working in Photoshop for skins (mind you, I tend to paint rather than photosource):

- if you're not using one already, a tablet helps. It's not completely necessary, but if you favour a more intuitive approach and are more used to drawing or painting, this can be a major time and hair saver.
- work on seperate layers for each new feature, group your layers where necessary.
- Work in halves. Given that the templates are symetrical for the most part, working out the main features first on one half is far more time saving than working out features on both sides, only to find certain details do not match. Duplicate your work and flip it for the other side, and once the features look right, go back in and develop some asymetry with the use of a few custom brushes here and there.
- If you're going for anything anywhere near shaded to realistic, having some custom mottling brushes on hand is really useful. I find the Nagel Brushes (pack #27) to be of particular use. (Just google Nagel Photoshop Brushes - there are a whole bunch of free brushes published regularly)

Hmm. More as they come to mind..

You might benefit from using Johan Durant's clothing/skin previewer in the sticky section of this forum. Save yourself a few L.

Thanks Aki and Cristalle!

Aki I am glad to know you mainly use Photoshop and I REALLY appreciate your tips.

I have now downloaded Daz Studio and the SL previewer, and I'll report back to let you know how it goes. Oh and I'm about to download the brushes.
My avatar thanks you (and so do I).

Thumbs up and fingers crossed...
Syd

Sydney, if you're prepared to put up with a little more grid instability you can upload your textures to the test server to check how they work on a moving avatar. It's a copy of the live grid, and you start out with 10k Lindens to play with, so you can upload them as much as you need without using real money. Though you do need to upload them again to the live grid when you are happy that they are finished.

I can help you out as well, though I use more traditional painting techniques to make my skins and clothing, I'm happy to give you pointers or whatever you need

I use a combination of Photoshop with the templates by Chip Midnight, and the Avpainter program by Chipootle (search in world for it) to check seams and placements. I don't currently use any 3d programs to create textures, because I'm a total 3d noob and with RL stuff going on, just don't have free time to devote to learning it at the moment. I wish I did cos I'd LOVE to be able to make some more complicated sculpties. Ah well maybe someday!

That's very cool of you to offer helpful hints, Siddean!

I think one of my probs, because I am new to painting for 3d, is getting my head around the idea that the SL software provides *lighting* for the avatar so that my (rubbishy) skins get provided with shading when I upload them to SL.

That makes me confused as to what skin-shading I am supposed to provide, on the nose ridge, cheekbones etc. and exactly where it is supposed to go. What part do I play and what part does the inworld lighting play - that's what I haven't figured out yet, so I end up putting way too much shading on the facial features, which gives a bruised effect.

I guess it's all a matter of trial and error, and just getting used to how the SL software behaves.

I had not thought of using the test server, but I've now found a link to it and I'm about to get it. Great idea!
Am also about to download the Avpainter demo...
If nothing else I'll have a heap of very interesting programs to play with!

I'll log in a bit later when I've put all this together (RL has been getting in the way of my skinning efforts). I'm sure I'll have more q's then.