What we can do to help ourselves!

I don't thnk this will be a popular thread, but I think we need to think more positively about how we can help ourselves.

LL see themselves as service providers only providing an environment, leaving their users large amounts of freedom to organize themselves.

I don't see LL changing that policy anytime soon. Hopefully they will come good with the bulk of their recently announced promised measures.

IMHO the existing controls should be largely adequate to deal with the current problems for the average land owners. They do not need to set their lands to allow builds, 0 or long return times, and scripts by other folk but many do, leaving them open to bombs, pushing by scripting and general aggraviation.

As in RL, buildings should protect occupants. They also give better access control. Many doors are already scripted for secure access. Security orbs are available at fairly low cost. However, LL need to give occupants privacy, both visually and textually

I do believe that there are some group management problems and it seems to me that the new group policy rollout should have been managed at the same time that recruitment rules were relaxed. Can't really say what is need here until those policies are rolled out.


Landowners should:

1. Disable others' scripting, building, and land editing.

2. Ensure their buildings are secure. Use security orbs that issue warnings first, eject secondly and teleport home next and finally push into orbit. Building walls, doors and windows should be thick enough to withstand fast moving projectiles.

3. Set object return to 1 minute. (Shouldn't be necessary if 1. implemented)

4. know how to freeze other av's making a nuisance on their land.

5. How to fill out AR's.

6. If running a shop, club or event, charge a small admission fee. Go some way to keep out the riff raff. Check the "confirmed flag" when available. In rl many shopping centers charge nominal parking fees.

7. If running an open door event, nominate a few individuals to take care of griefers with powers to eject or teleport home.

8. Behave as you would in rl. Keep objectionable AO material behind walls and doors and vet all av's access to it. Behave in a reasonable manner!

LL need to implement some simple changes.

1. Improve group policies(in progress). Eliminate group membership limits. Should also be able to make groups easier to generate and manage so that each landowner can invite others into their groups for socializing and sharing scripting/building experiences.

2. Respect landowners wishes not to have any else's prims on their land (Except those attached to av's) unless they share group membership.

3. Prevent chat from leaving or entering enclosed spaces. More closely follows rl.

4. Change the alt view settings so as not to allow viewing into closed structures. Occlusion is already implemented for efficiency, this could be extended so no view is possible of space not accessable by the av (grey would be good).

5. Rework push permissions (in progress).

6. Prevent av's sitting on objects on someone else's land from penetrating structures on that land. (probably hard to do)

You may be able to come up with other measure now available.

Think positive!

Ed

What? No. Don't be ridiculous. You seem to think that it's quite reasonable to expect everyone to live in concrete bunkers where nobody else can show you stuff or use AOs or anything, with security balls and green lines, and ask for cover charges from anyone daring to visit, if they want to avoid griefing. How much time do you actually spend in SL?

Terribly sorry. Not having visitors anymore. Say 'ello to Philip.

What Ordinal said. By the time you've done all that, you can't actually do anything much. So what's the point of being here in the first place?

Until LL give us sufficient tools that we can use to effectively police and control our own land, it's their responsibility, not our responsibility to completely cripple everything for everyone.

i also would like a few script wise functions, like llREturnObject(id)

i would like avatar selectiver functions for land owner, like force this or this attachment to be detached, and the equivalent script wise (good for client side lag prevention and for controlling some games)

also an option that deactivate the build/edit ability if the land owner decide so

also the land owner should be able to redirect chat of an avatar on a specific channel

also a script allowance flag set on their land that would allow to deactivate/ throttle
-llrezobject
-llpushobject
-llapplyimpulse
-llsetforce
-llshout
-llsay
-llwhisper
and that can also be set temporary by script ,on a per avatar basis

and llKillGreefer().

oh. and llRezGiantMallet().

Absolutely, unless they are running something like an educational area, or they are just really friendly. Sometimes it is considered nice to let customers test rez their objects.



Well, no. Security Orbs are nice to expand the ban list, but most people think it is rude and childish to warn others that the orb is in place, even more so to teleport home, and the last time I checked, you could be banned for pushing. In fact, you even mention below that something should be done about llPush, does orbiting AVs not use the function llPush?

I think that Security Orbs are part of the problem. They take away from the freedom of the users in SL. For example, it is nearly impossible for me to move from one side of the Mainland to the other without getting sent home by an over-zealous security script.

If I were pushed into orbit by a security script, I would AR the owner. Ban list or not, 2 wrongs does not make a right.




It will be necessary if 1 is implemented, since someone can rez something next door, and move it into the property via the edit tools.




Absolutely, but it should also be recognized that ARs take a very long time to be processed. Nothing against LL, I bet they get thousands of these every day.



This will kill your business. And most people would just pan their cameras in anyhow.
Did I mention they will create objects and move them inside the ban line? Remember also, that most new accounts have L$0. And what money they purchase from Lindex (which is where their money will most likely come from), why would they pay an admission price on your land when they can get what they want from an area with no admission fee?



I would recommend this, but make sure they are trustworthy individuals.



Won't happen. SL can't handle it. Best way to handle this is to keep chat to IMs if it is personal, or to try to keep everyone at least 20m away from you.



Although I think this is possible, it probably wont happen with the current SL engine. A possible problem with this is for builders, who usually want to view into their structures by panning their cameras. I really dont know how they could make it better for everyone. I think most likely if it does ever happen, it won't be for a long time.



Your thinking is in the right direction, but you need to calm down a bit on the agressiveness of your approach. If SL is tightened down to that level, nobody new will ever stay in SL, and most older users will leave.

llPush should definitly be revamped, and I dont really see a use for it at all. Personally, I think the removal of that function alone would end most of the griefing problems in SL.

If nothing else, there should at least be an area in preferences to make llPush not effect you. It should be on by default (no effect).

The only way I can think of to make it to where you can't ride a prim into another lot would be to make it to where when you sit on anything, it becomes physical, but with the physics engine in SL, this would probably cause more trouble than its worth.

I know that LL has a good idea of what the current problems in SL are, and that they are trying to work on a good solution that will benefit everyone. The problem here is that in order to benefit everyone, a zero-tolerance policy is not always the best way to go. In other words, how can you have freedom in a totalitarian state?

Food for thought at least, if nothing else. Seriously though, I think some real discussion on how to correct the problems in SL on the griefer side of things (and dont mention the damn account thing for the eleventy bajillionth time, I think we all already know about that), in a way that will benefit all users equally, without infringing on the rights of any users, including those who would grief.

I am trying to be realistically positive here guys. I get depressed when I read the hundreds of protest postings and see the Linden response (s?). I am glad you pointed out my excesses on push and bunkering. When all the protesting and tumult dies down and LL has done its usual behavior of ignoring us, we still need to make sl liveable and I am trying to be the first to think positively about our future.

Ok, what I got so far is that the LL part of my posting to achieve privacy is totally unworkable unless you live on 32000 square metres or more. The other thing is that ban lines are being reworked and instead of pushing as a very final resort, the security should merely place repeat trespassers on the parcel's ban list (probably would need a lot more than 50 entries). However, I have been pushed myself without warning by more than 20 security orbs over the last couple of weeks! Have I bothered to fill out any AR's ? No, because all I see when I stop moving is the dialog box of the attacking box telling me to visit its maker but surely it is the landowner who is at fault here?

I have spoken to a few of my neighbours who asked me to take down my publicly available sandbox as that was drawing many griefers. Not my problem because in my aussie time zone I see very few people anyway but I complied anyway. But I also became aware that nobody knew how to freeze a griefer trespassing on their land and some had lots of perms on their land for use by others.

Most measures being proposed at this time by LL seem to favour land owners so travelling is going to be more and more perilous. Just take a prim with you to sit on!

The genie is out of the bottle and putting the cork back on is not going to fix this situation anytime real soon!

Basically. Like all of life's problems, most lusers expect someone else to fix it for them, when in reality they need to GET A CLUE and do it themselves. This is why spyware and malware are so prevelant. I used to day it's your own fault for identity theft but nowaday's is the consultant that takes his work home with him.

We don't need Mules, most of our residents are sheep that can't be bothered to look stuff up and think for themselves. We need to place lockdowns BY DEFAULT on parcels. (not ban lines, but noscript/build/edit etc).

EDIT: I'm snappy today. I need to a hug.

But the fly in the ointment is that the tools are inadequate, they will not be enhanced any time soon (based on years of LL missed dates and initiatives that never got off the "we should" board), and you risk sanctions if you do unto others as they do unto you.We can't do anything to help ourselves and LL doesn't care enough to change that.

Ask not what your virtual world can do for you, but what you can do for their virtual world.

Something to neuter that accursed ShieldBreaker bullet thats been the bane of everyone's existence would be nice too.

A bit off topic, but the SB seems to just be a single bullet that uses LLPush a lot in a very short amount of time. I can't tell how it penetrates shields by looking at the (open source) script.

Well again, in this case, the complete removal of llPush will defeat that problem. What about the PvPer's I hear you ask? Simple, damage-enabled areas, go back to actually killing each other, instead of flinging each other around.

Oh and possibly making an option (which would be on by default) to where your AV cannot be moved by physical objects.