How to eject a kid from the grid

Last night, about 9 PM SL time, I encountered a self-admitted 13 year old on the adult grid, and had to go through the process of filing an AR and getting him removed from the adult grid. By 5:30 AM SL time the next morning, that kid's account no longer exists in the main grid. Presumably he's been moved to the teen grid, or suspended pending proof of age.

I found the process of getting the kid off the grid to be very frustrating. So I am posting an account of last night's events, and some advice to make this type of reporting easier and less frustrating for others.

Note: This relates to an under-age participant that is NOT actively griefing or causing trouble. Merely someone who lied to get onto the adult grid. I should hope that if griefing were also occuring, the Linden Response would be more proactive. There was no adult content in the area, though it was in a Mature rated sim on the mainland. So it was not a case of a kid actively involved in adult activities, either.

What happened last night:

Two people, a guy and a girl, appeared at a site that I was doing building work at, flitting about in a curious manner. I went down to where they were, and politely greeted them. Both were in avatars that were largely orientation island defaults, with only minor changes. Both had unverified profiles that indicated their accounts were created yesterday.

I welcomed them, and asked if they were interested in what they saw around them. I told them that this was a place that belonged to a friend of mine, and that I was building the docks and harbor for her. They asked several typical newbie questions, like the girl asked how I got my hair to look so nice. I told her it was prim hair, and gave her a landmark for where she could buy the hair. The boy made a comment about "oh boy, girl talk." Both admitted to having no money.

I advised them that the best way to get money was to spend $5 USD to $10 USD to buy some cash to get started with. The girl seemed OK with that. The boy, on the other hand, blurts out "Oh, I won't ever spend money to buy anything! I'm only 13!".

I replied "Are you serious?", and got him talking. Meanwhile, I tried to contact Live Help, advising them that I had caught a 13 year old on the adult grid, and that he was with me now. Dead silence from live help...

10 minutes later, I had confirmed in chat that the kid was in fact only 13, that he joined because he could, and because there was no credit card required. I told him this was no place for kids, and that there was a teen grid for kids age 13-17. That he was here illegally. I asked him what his parents would do if they caught him in an adults-only on-line game. He admitted that they would be upset and would tell him to get out of SL at once.

Finally live help replies, after I have been virtually screaming at them for 10 minutes to get a Linden to me NOW, to freeze and eject the kid. No Linden was sent. I was told to AR the kid. I was told to tell the kid to call live help.

Yes. They told me to ask the 13 year old to turn himself in. *sigh* The kid at this point thought this was all a great joke, and didn't understand why I was making a big fuss. I mean, he was sure there were other kids here too...

So, as I copied the chatlog into an AR report and submitted it, I told the kid, as calmly and as politely as I could, that this is an adults-only game, and that there are adults here who could HURT kids like him. That I didn't want him to get hurt. I also told him that he had a choice. He could call live help, turn himself in, and get moved to the teen grid. Or he could try to stay, and he would most likely eventually get caught and banned for life from SL. He indicated he thought I was bluffing. I assured him that the Lindens had his IP address and MAC address, and that they most certainly could prohibit his computer from ever accesing Second Life again. Forever. The kid did call live help. He commented that the guy he was talking to was really nice. A few minutes later, he was gone.

The girl, incidentally, said she was 20 when asked. From her responses, including her reactions to the kid's admissions, she was probably telling the truth. She offered me friendship and got out of there, heading to the Ivory Tower at my suggestion, to learn how to build things. Apparently, they had met on orientation island or in the welcome area, and were just exploring together.

Advice if this happens to you, and you need to get a kid off the grid.

1: Talk calmly to the kid, record what they say, if possible getting them to state clearly that they lied about their age to get on the grid.

2: Copy the chatlog and paste it into an AR Report. Use the "Misc." category, and give it a title like "MINOR ON ADULT GRID".

3: At the top of the report, state the SL name of the kid, and that they admitted to being under-age.

4: Submit the AR Report.

5: Tell the kid they have been reported as being under age, and tell them how to contact Live Help to request being moved to the teen grid. Explain that if they don't, they could lose ALL access to SL.

At this point, if you want to call Live Help yourself to give them a heads-up on the AR, fine. But don't expect them to come and help you. They will not do anything in person.

I also made a point of copying the chatlog into a notecard, so I retained a copy of my proof after logging out, and so I could search for the name the next day, to assure myself the kid was off the grid.

Of course, he can come right back with a new alt. But he knows the Lindens are on to him now, and that they have information that can identify his computer hardware. Hopefully he won't risk losing all access.

The only time I would ever scream at live help, jump up and down, demand intervention and response *NOW* is when there's a self-replicating grid attack starting up!

While a minor on the grid is a serious thing, your 'how to' sounds like a right and proper method. The only exception I would make would be that I probably wouldn't tell the kid I had AR'd them. If they get banned for age, let them wonder if LL has some mysterious way of figuring out, rather than teaching them to be more covert.

Just a heads up, Ceera.

I don't know if you're aware of it, and nor do I expect you to unless you've been told. But while there is often a Linden monitoring the Live Help channels (not always, but usually), the regular Live Helpers would not have been able to do a thing. They have no more power than you do to deal with the situation, though I admit, it would have been nice for someone to come just to back you up...

In such a situation, I'd suggest looking to see if there's a liaison online, and IM directly. All Live Help can do is offer advice and then go look for a Linden.

It's bad that you got no response, but I couldn't speak for how busy they were.

Yeah, I realize that 'screaming' at Live Help was non-productive. But I would have appreciated an intependant witness to what the kid was admitting, at the very least.

I didn't tell this particular kid that I AR'd him. I just advised him to turn himself in. You're right, however. Having the action on the AR come 'out of nowhere' might be more effective.

I'm the parent of a 10 year old kid IRL, so I took this more seriously than many here might. As a parent, I know that if I caught my kid on the adult grid, or in her case even on the teen grid, since she's under 13, she'd be grounded for a month and lose her computer access for that entire period. And she knows that, too. We've discussed it at length. I supervise my child's Internet access. If she wants net access, she has to use the system in the family room, in plain sight of everyone in the house.

The adult grid is no place for kids. I'm just glad I caught this 13 year old boy in a kid-safe area, and not in some XXX venue. His account was so new and shiny he wasn't even certain there was nudity in SL yet, and I wasn't about to describe to him just how much more than mere nudity he might have been exposed to.

one thing to keep in mind-

at the shelter after we turn in a kid, we try pretty hard not to do anything to drive them away while waiting for linden action. i figure they're much safer with us than randomly wandering the grid, doing god only knows what. i try to keep that in mind when i decide whether or not to tell them they're reported and how hard i push them to try the teen grid.
last thing we want is to drive them away from safer places and right into the nastier ones.

That is a very good point, onionpencil! That is the main reason I kept the kid engaged in conversation as long as I did. The boat dock he was standing on was a completely kid-safe spot. No adult content anywhere close to there, that I was aware of.

Heck, my female Human avvie, dressed in a short-sleved and short legged wetsuit, was probably the sexiest thing anywhere near him. I was going in and out of the water a lot, so the wetsuit was very practical clothing for wearing while I worked on the marina.

Hmmmm. Probably was also a good thing I happened to be in a Human form at the time. Who knows how he would have reacted to a talking anthro fox vixen!

I think once they make teen land at least interesting you will probably see less teens in adult world.

well we're not supposed to have any way of knowing if it is interesting.

at any rate i suppose there'll always be a few trying to get in just to see what they're missing, but hope it eases up.

It'd probably be nice to have a Help -> Report Underage User.. in the client to make it clear that a) you're supposed to do that, b) other people are supposed to do that to you if you're underage and c) because "Abuse" doesn't seem quite the right term.

I guess the teen grid would get Report Overage User

Ceera,

A lot of the time when I read people's accounts of "situations" they encounter, and how they choose to deal with them, I just find it rather depressing and grim. I want to tell you that I found your story to be refreshingly different--realizing of course that part of your point was to express a level of frustration about the lack of help from higher up the food chain. But as far as how you handled it...and even how the kids reacted--it seemed all very decent, humane and remarkably civil.

I was struck by how your concern for the kid--as well as your committment to the rules and the safety and sanity of the grid--came through in your description of the event. In these tense times, it's pretty easy for reactions to get out of hand on either side of a situation--going from parking ticket to full nuclear exchange in less than 60 seconds as it were.

I hope the next time I have something developing, I will remember how you handled this and will try to follow your example.

Uhmm, not true at all. I am a parent and I've relented and my child is now on teen life. Meaning, I looked over her shoulder and helped her find stuff to buy. So believe it or not responsible parents do exist

They are overly limited there, they will get bored and if the children aren't properly influenced by their parents they will go to the adult grid.

good point. excluding parents of TSL we're not supposed to have any way of knowing 8D

If a kid gets banned, two things will happen.

1) They uninstall SL and go back to Counterstrike,

or

2) They start a new account and just keep quiet.

This doesn't really solve anything, sadly.

what about the hash reg?

I wouldn't necessarliy say that, (im a parent so im prickly about kids), once they are banned, and they come back with a new account they will think twice. Consequences are a wonderful thing. Cause they lose all of the stuff they worked to acquire. Of course there is ALWAYS an exception.

LL needs to

1) made a family grid were all non-verfied and non-xxx stuff is were teens and adults can meet under super guidelines, making this more massive than the main gird, when the 'Adult grid' is were verf. adult accounts goes(only for any sexual that isn't meant for underaged eyes) and the teen grid just dissappers poof...

2) make the 'adult gird' 10x harder to get verfi. so teens that trying to go there can't because they would need to call LL and send a phono and any other info that they need to say ok he/she is clear..

3)making anyother changes to TOS for the family grid and most people will be happy, you would run into a underaged in Real-life all the time, unless your wanting NO UNDERAGE people here then..

I think this would stop with the 'OMG UNDERAGE ACCOUNT' related threads and junk.. I am seriously tired of it and I bet other people as well... because if LL doesn't do something this rollercoaster will never end... and all of us are along for the ride..

Anything requiring the policing of user-created materials is inherently unscalable. You ca'nt have a "family grid" where there's no porn or anything, because after about a year or so, the grid is so large that nobody can properly police it. Then we're right back where we started.

so then this rollercoaster will never end... with no way to fix this problem just having a NO UNDERAGED allowed will not work, specially if SL is international... 18+ might be for some 'states' in the US but most countrys at 16+... now we will always be at the starting point so heh... this is going to be one long ride >.<

I do think that if a kid is caught on the adult grid, the Lindens will flag the hash codes for that system to watch for new accounts that they might create. If they don't, they really should. Torley and other Lindens have assured us that the hash codes can be and are being used to keep at least some offenders from being able to re-enter SL.

I would support the idea of scrapping the teen grid, in favor of creating a G-rated grid that people of all ages can access. Surprisingly, some adults have more interesting things to do in SL than have sex. Strange, but true! Sex is less thanh 3% of what I do in SL, if it even gets that high. I like building and creating content much more. Some of us might like the idea of being able to use SL to communicate with family members that are half a world away. I'd love to be able to meet with my nieces and nephew via SL, or to have my child able to meet with her grandparents there.

Unfortunately, I don't see any way, at this time, that one could prevent adult content from being brought into a 'family grid', nor do I see any way that kids in such a grid could be protected from the creeps that prey on children. That is why the Teen grid was created as a seperate place - to keep teens and those who might prey on teens apart.

As for the teen grid being boring? Well, my own child is too young to access the teen grid yet, so I can't look over her shoulder and see for myself. But as I understand it, Teen SL has the same building and scripting tools as the adult grid. There is no reason that they can't make the same things we have, although certain 'mature rated' products should not be allowed to exist there.

Perhaps it would help if there was some way for responsible merchants to establish stores in SL where the kids could but G-rated stuff? I'd be happy to sell age-appropriate clothes and custom building textures to kids in TSL, but I have no way to do that. Perhaps LL could consider a "Certified TSL Merchant" status for adult accounts, which would allow us strictly supervised access to TSL? Restrict us only to a couple of 'Mall' sims, where we could set up our wares and answer customer service questions? It might work, and would give the kids a legitimate source of higher-quality content to play with.

The could actually take care of it the same way they do the Teen area. In other words, how do they keep adult content out of the teen area? But I do agree with a G area, it would be the smartest thing for SL to do.
Smart business, keep your customers, and have their friends join. Not going to happen if those teens are bored, they will either leave or greif. It is SL's choice on the direction.

What a wonderful idea. Should we do a proposal or something?

Is it worth while to report someone you suspect to be under 18? There are normally a set of behaviors that can make one suspicious, but most kids are not dumb enough to admit they are under 18.

If you can't get them to clearly admit that they are really under age, and all you have is some 'suspicious comments', then I think rather than filing an AR report, I would contact a Liason, like Torley, and ask her to look into it. I know adults who certainly behave immaturely. So filing an AR just because you think they 'don't sound like an adult' would be questionable. However, I think someone like Torley might be able to get a Linden staffer to check recent logs for that user, to see if perhaps they were also acting suspicious, or even blurted out an admission, while with someone else.

The kids I would really worry about are the ones that openly do admit they are 13 or 14. If a 16 year old plays the role of an adult convincingly enough that all the real adults think that is what they are, then a person who preys on kids in RL by meeting kids on-line is not likely to give them a second glance. A kid doing a believable job of pretending to be an adult might get an eyefull of some pixel-slapping that they shouldn't participate in, but they are less likely to actually be harmed in reality. And if they can act maturely enough in adult situatiuons that they don't tip their hand, then possibly they are mature enough, personally, to handle what they get into.

Ideally, I'd rather not see any kids exposed to adult content. But from a practical standpoint, I'll settle for protecting the most vulnerable ones.

I Agree with the person above me, If they are underage like 16 17, and are Mature enough to handle Second life, then it's not as bad as 13 year old kids going around saying "I'm 13", "I'm 13." but if you Act mature and say you're like 20 or something when you're really 16, 17, and adults DO think you are it's not as bad as knowing they are 13 and still being like Hey baby, when we ganna meet. i don't know if i made sense, but i tried.lol