Is SL soon to loose the technology advantage?
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Crode Figtree
Registered User
Join date: 6 May 2006
Posts: 58
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06-24-2006 02:08
While the servers have been going up and down recently ive been catching up on my reading and found an interesting article and comments on TerraNova about what the competition (mostly Google Earth) is up to. http://terranova.blogs.com/terra_nova/2006/06/the_mmo_powerpl.html#moreFrom: someone I thought you might be interested in some Google Earth and KML 2.1 news that was pretty significant but seems to have been missed by most of the press. Google Earth and KML 2.1 now use the COLLADA interchange format for 3D geometry and textures. COLLADA is an open standard for that defines an XML-based schema for 3D authoring applications to freely exchange digital assets without loss of information. http://www.khronos.org/colladaIf you check out the textured 3D sample file in their KML 2.1 tutorials http://earth.google.com/kml/kml_21tutorial.htmlyou will see that they include both the COLLADA .dae file and the textures in a compressed zip file. They add the geospecific data in their own xml file. Why this is so interesting is this means you can use any of the popular 3D modeling applications including Maya, SoftImage|XSI, 3ds Max, Blender, and Sketchup of course, to create sophisticated models with textures, export them as COLLADA, and then import or drag and drop them into Google Earth. Combined with the new KML support for LOD and streaming, you have some pretty high performance 3D visualization capabilities. What is also interesting is that this means game developers can now start using their assets in Google Earth (the Sony PS3 will actually be based on Collada). IMHO it does not seem far off when this will enable Google Earth to become the real Metaverse but with true geospatial capabilities. I wonder if Second Life will soon support Collada? In that case assets would be fully interchangeable between different virtual 3D world solutions! At this point, Google Earth has not implemented support for animation, shaders or physics. But these are supported in the COLLADA format, so it is likely only a matter of time. Hope this is interesting news for you. I'm pretty excited about the whole thing." Now I hope this isnt too over the heads of the readers. It means being able to build objects and avatars much like its done for any other 3D game, and other CG art. What this would mean for SL is a much more beautiful, higher quality, world and removes the majority of the creativilty limitations that now exist. The down side is it will break every object existing in SL. It will also mean a much higher learning curve for object creation. So people, do you think you all would be able to cope and support such a massive change to SL? Im not saying LL will go this direction but it might just be necessary to keep up with the competition. |
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Eggy Lippmann
Wiktator
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 7,939
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06-24-2006 02:13
*yawn*
Google Earth does not have avatars or collaboration. SL is not about dragging and dropping meshes around, it's about the people.
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Ashen Stygian
@-'-,---
Join date: 30 Apr 2004
Posts: 243
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06-24-2006 02:15
I dont see where 3d modeling and SL prim modeling are exclusive, why not have both?
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From: Alex Fitzsimmons Chaos may not be the safest sim to attempt to grief.... It's a little like going to an insane asylum to pick a fight. 
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Crode Figtree
Registered User
Join date: 6 May 2006
Posts: 58
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06-24-2006 02:17
Well if its about the people and not the gfx then SL is not needed. IRC and instant message seems to work well enough. I am here for the gfx and the creation possibilities. The people I can find anywhere. Oh and also ive never used google earth ever so i dont know what they have to offer... From: someone I dont see where 3d modeling and SL prim modeling are exclusive, why not have both? Yeah that is very true, but it could also become a code nightmare of trying to support old outdated features. |
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Tsukasa Karuna
Master of all things desu
Join date: 30 Jun 2004
Posts: 370
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06-24-2006 02:20
Maybe the two systems could run alongside each other. The current system, for simplicty and compatability's sake... and the new mesh system which allows for much more detail at the cost of compatibility and ease of use.
Something like the two texture mapping systems we have now, standard and planar.
Simple and advanced building, anyone?
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Ashen Stygian
@-'-,---
Join date: 30 Apr 2004
Posts: 243
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06-24-2006 02:23
From: Tsukasa Karuna Simple and advanced building, anyone? advanced object upload 10L$ per polygon
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From: Alex Fitzsimmons Chaos may not be the safest sim to attempt to grief.... It's a little like going to an insane asylum to pick a fight.
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Starax Statosky
Unregistered User
Join date: 23 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,099
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06-24-2006 02:32
Bluuuurgh
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Kyrah Abattoir
cruelty delight
Join date: 4 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,786
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06-24-2006 04:21
typical suggestion from peoples that, obviously have no clue on how the system work
while the current building system use several basci shapes that every cliet know how to draw, transmiting custom meshes cost a lot more and bandwidth and memory, mainly because each mesh will be uniwue and we will have to transmit every friggin vertex of the said mesh, wich will weight a lot
it will open the door to even more clueless builders that will upload tesselated shit of 150K triangles cause they want to upload pretty things.
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Frans Charming
You only need one Frans
Join date: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,847
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06-24-2006 05:33
From: Crode Figtree Well if its about the people and not the gfx then SL is not needed. IRC and instant message seems to work well enough.
It is not only about chatting either. It is about community, collaboration and joined experiences. From: Philip Linden When you visit a site like yahoo today, there are maybe 100,000 other people sitting there with you, right at that very moment, reading that same page. But they can't see you or talk to you. Wouldn't it be easier and more exciting if you could turn to one of them and ask "how do I set up a group here and send an email to it". Wouldn't it be fun to laugh together at a headline that you thought was ridiculous? Well SL is that place - using technology to allow other people to be there with you. That is why community matters so much - it is this incredible sense of constant presence - of your friends, of strangers, and of your own identity, that makes SL so remarkable and beyond the web. |
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Lupus Delacroix
Wyrm Raider
Join date: 3 May 2006
Posts: 695
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06-24-2006 05:48
From: someone When you visit a site like yahoo today, there are maybe 100,000 other people sitting there with you, right at that very moment, reading that same page. But they can't see you or talk to you. Wouldn't it be easier and more exciting if you could turn to one of them and ask "how do I set up a group here and send an email to it". No actually that would suck. When I want to go to yahoo.com I don't want someone spooging all over my search with their innane bullshit. |
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Eggy Lippmann
Wiktator
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 7,939
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06-24-2006 05:53
From: Crode Figtree Well if its about the people and not the gfx then SL is not needed. IRC and instant message seems to work well enough.
I am here for the gfx and the creation possibilities. The people I can find anywhere.
Oh and also ive never used google earth ever so i dont know what they have to offer...
Yeah that is very true, but it could also become a code nightmare of trying to support old outdated features. Ok, let me get this straight, you've been in SL for ONE MONTH, and as far as google earth is concerned, you've NEVER even used it. And yet, you somehow feel qualified to compare the two and dictate their fate! Brilliant  As far as "gfx" are concerned, well, I was fiddling with primitives 10 years ago in Bryce, and talking to people on ICQ at the same time, and I did send them screenshots of what I was building... but... If you somehow think this is the same thing as being immersed in a beautiful victorian setting and collaborating with two other people to build a working pocket watch, well, I rest my case. |
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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06-24-2006 06:01
From: Lupus Delacroix No actually that would suck. When I want to go to yahoo.com I don't want someone spooging all over my search with their innane bullshit. There is truth in that, but there used to be a chat program called PowWow, and one feature it had was group surfing - other people could chose to have their browser show the same page your browser was on. This was fun, you could easily take people on a tour of the internet, show them the funny or odd or whatever sites that had caught your attention, while chatting about it in the PowWow program.
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Crode Figtree
Registered User
Join date: 6 May 2006
Posts: 58
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06-24-2006 15:21
From: someone while the current building system use several basci shapes that every cliet know how to draw, transmiting custom meshes cost a lot more and bandwidth and memory, mainly because each mesh will be uniwue and we will have to transmit every friggin vertex of the said mesh, wich will weight a lot Maybe you dont quite understand, this tech is being used right now by other companies and im quite sure you havnt investigated how much bandwidth it would consume. Memory a problem? Not at all. As far as my SL age is concerned, you dont know who I am or what I do for a living. Ill just let you know im easily qualified to make comments on this. The fate is left up to the people. I dont want to see any more posts from SL fanbios slamming me. Looking for comments based on COLLADA texhnology.  |
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Weedy Herbst
Too many parameters
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,255
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06-24-2006 15:42
SL runs on Havok1, which is 10 year old technology. A decade ago, people where using 486's and Pentium processors and 16 megs of RAM.
Havok2 was "promised" by Philip in 1.7, yet here we are in 1.10.4. Apparently any new physics engine cannot be implimented without breaking alot of existing things.
This dilemna has cause SL to stagnate. The recent changes in lighting are only bandaid solutions to much bigger problems. SL is running on obsolete technology.
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Crode Figtree
Registered User
Join date: 6 May 2006
Posts: 58
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06-24-2006 15:49
Yep thats exactly what I mean! LL is going to have to jump in and make massive change or just stick with things as they are. Either way it will cause lots of turmoil.
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crucial Armitage
Clothing Designer
Join date: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 838
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06-24-2006 15:50
using the the high end 3d modeling programs would knock out 90 % of the builders in second life. One of the most amazing things about second life is ANYONE can build with little or no knowledge of 3 d modeling.
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Foolish Frost
Grand Technomancer
Join date: 7 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,433
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06-24-2006 15:55
<shakes head>
Nope. I did 3D for a good while. Texturing, modeling, animating.
The basic skills totally cross over. Most of it is having talent and the ability to conceptualize 3D space. The rest is knowing the software.
Editing a mesh is far from hard. No matter what program you use.
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Weedy Herbst
Too many parameters
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,255
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06-24-2006 16:02
From: Foolish Frost Editing a mesh is far from hard. No matter what program you use. If only SL used meshes, or had import features. Then I could build in peace. |
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crucial Armitage
Clothing Designer
Join date: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 838
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06-24-2006 16:03
From: Foolish Frost <shakes head>
Nope. I did 3D for a good while. Texturing, modeling, animating.
The basic skills totally cross over. Most of it is having talent and the ability to conceptualize 3D space. The rest is knowing the software.
Editing a mesh is far from hard. No matter what program you use. well then i stand corrected. I tried working in a 3d program once and could not figure it out. although i was able to build in second life with in days of joining second life. |
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Frans Charming
You only need one Frans
Join date: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,847
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06-24-2006 19:12
From: Crode Figtree Yep thats exactly what I mean! LL is going to have to jump in and make massive change or just stick with things as they are. Either way it will cause lots of turmoil. They aren't sticking with how things are, as you can see in the recent days. Expect change, if it will be massive is just a matter of opinion. |
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Luciftias Neurocam
Ecosystem Design
Join date: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 742
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06-24-2006 20:26
From: Crode Figtree Yep thats exactly what I mean! LL is going to have to jump in and make massive change or just stick with things as they are. Either way it will cause lots of turmoil. Nice save. |
