This update is changing some major behavior of SL for a great many people. I can't help but be concerned that this is potentially a disaster.
As noted in another thread the culling of prims is going to affect a great many AVs Furry or not.
The change in texture cache has got me in a tizzy if I understand Torleys explaination of it. It sounds like anyone with less than a 512 MB video board and less than 2GB of Ram is pretty much gonna be screwed. I am fully expecting WORSE performance ater this update with my 256 card and 512 ram 3.9 GHz machine.
Changes of this Scale really should have been put to preview for a time before being released to the main grid.
In any case thats my 2L feel free to discuss, argue, divert etc
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Trepidations about this Update |
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Paul Llewelyn
Registered User
Join date: 9 Jul 2004
Posts: 86
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01-22-2006 02:55
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
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01-22-2006 03:03
The change in texture cache has got me in a tizzy if I understand Torleys explaination of it. It sounds like anyone with less than a 512 MB video board and less than 2GB of Ram is pretty much gonna be screwed. I am fully expecting WORSE performance ater this update with my 256 card and 512 ram 3.9 GHz machine. One lil' clarification: in theory, if anything, things should be better. The specs you listed sound okeydoke, keeping in mind you have double the system RAM of your graphics card. Altho personally, depending on what else you do on your computer, sounds like you deserve at least a gig of RAM (since SL can take up several hundred megs, which doesn't leave a lot of breathing room if you're running other apps)!  _____________________
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Paul Llewelyn
Registered User
Join date: 9 Jul 2004
Posts: 86
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01-22-2006 03:28
One lil' clarification: in theory, if anything, things should be better. The specs you listed sound okeydoke, keeping in mind you have double the system RAM of your graphics card. Altho personally, depending on what else you do on your computer, sounds like you deserve at least a gig of RAM (since SL can take up several hundred megs, which doesn't leave a lot of breathing room if you're running other apps)! TY Torley I very much hope you are right. I would give my eyeteeth for more ram its just not in the cards right now LOL. As of now I can run 3 AVs + PS or Poser. DO I lag with all this yep but its playable and for my business necessary. WHen running just 1 AV I frequently hit Client FPS over 90 on our home sim with very fast texture loading. |
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
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01-22-2006 03:44
Presumably if they realise that this update does indeed screw up a lot of player's enjoyment, it would be fairly easy to 'undo'?
Lewis _____________________
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Paul Llewelyn
Registered User
Join date: 9 Jul 2004
Posts: 86
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01-22-2006 03:54
Presumably if they realise that this update does indeed screw up a lot of player's enjoyment, it would be fairly easy to 'undo'? Lewis I would hope so Lewis but in over a year and a half in game I have never to my knowledge seen them back up to a previous version. What usually happens is weeks of trying to fix the fix. Sorry to sound a bit cynical here just seen it happen over and over. |
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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01-22-2006 04:03
One lil' clarification: in theory, if anything, things should be better. The specs you listed sound okeydoke, keeping in mind you have double the system RAM of your graphics card. Altho personally, depending on what else you do on your computer, sounds like you deserve at least a gig of RAM (since SL can take up several hundred megs, which doesn't leave a lot of breathing room if you're running other apps)! I don't mean this as an attack on Torley, but... How about, the next time the fine folks up at Linden Labs have a "theoretical" improvement, they give it a couple weeks testing on the preview grid, please? They have pretty terrible track record on "theoretical" improvements once they go live. Even if you got a preview grid set up sometime monday, a day and a half to two days is nowhere near enough time for enough users to run adequet testing on something like this. _____________________
I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Magnum Serpentine
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,811
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01-22-2006 04:44
One lil' clarification: in theory, if anything, things should be better. The specs you listed sound okeydoke, keeping in mind you have double the system RAM of your graphics card. Altho personally, depending on what else you do on your computer, sounds like you deserve at least a gig of RAM (since SL can take up several hundred megs, which doesn't leave a lot of breathing room if you're running other apps)! My system is : 2.5GHz Processor Pentinum Class 1,042MB Normal Ram 128 Video Ram (Nvidia Fx 5200 3D Now agp ) Cable Modem From reading the above, it sounds to me like the stats have changed Is it true, that you have to have more than 512 MB Video Ram now???? You will probably loose 99% of your customers at this rate. |
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Martin Magpie
Catherine Cotton
Join date: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,826
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01-22-2006 05:08
System Requirements
This hardware and software is REQUIRED to run Second Life successfully. If your computer doesn't meet these requirements, you may not be able to participate in Second Life. PC Minimum System Requirements: Internet Connection*: Cable or DSL Operating System: Windows XP (Service Pack 2) OR Windows 2000 (Service Pack 4) Computer Processor: 800MHz Pentium III or Athlon, or better Computer Memory: 256MB or better Video/Graphics Card**: nVidia GeForce 2, GeForce 4mx, or better OR ATI Radeon 8500, 9250, or better Mac Minimum System Requirements: Internet Connection*: Cable or DSL Operating System: Mac OS X 10.3.8 or better Computer Processor: 1 GHz G4 or better Computer Memory: 512MB or better Video/Graphics Card(*2): nVidia GeForce 2, GeForce 4mx, or better OR ATI Radeon 8500, 9250, or better System Recommendations This hardware and software is highly recommended for a comfortable Second Life experience. The more of these recommendations you meet, the smoother Second Life will be. PC Minimum System Recommendations: Internet Connection*: Cable or DSL Computer Processor: 1.6GHz Pentium 4 or Athlon 2000+ or better Computer Memory: 512MB or better Video/Graphics Card: nVidia GeForce FX 5600, GeForce 6600, or better OR ATI Radeon 9600, X600, or better Mac Minimum System Recommendations: Internet Connection*: Cable or DSL Operating System: Mac OS X 10.4.3 or better Computer Processor: 1.25 GHz G4 or better Computer Memory: 768MB or better Video/Graphics Card: nVidia GeForce FX 5600, GeForce 6600, or better OR ATI Radeon 9600, X600, or better _____________________
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Lordfly Digeridoo
Prim Orchestrator
Join date: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 3,628
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01-22-2006 07:33
My system is : 2.5GHz Processor Pentinum Class 1,042MB Normal Ram 128 Video Ram (Nvidia Fx 5200 3D Now agp ) Cable Modem From reading the above, it sounds to me like the stats have changed Is it true, that you have to have more than 512 MB Video Ram now???? You will probably loose 99% of your customers at this rate. No. _____________________
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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01-22-2006 07:39
Is it true, that you have to have more than 512 MB Video Ram now???? You will probably loose 99% of your customers at this rate. I would say 100%, Magnum. Because I don't know any consumer video cards with more than 512 MB installed.  _____________________
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court. Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags? |
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
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01-22-2006 12:57
Ohno, system requirements have not changed.
Magnum, from the specs you listed, you meet all the conditions. You're fine! Also, Karen understands the concerns! _____________________
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Michi Lumin
Sharp and Pointy
Join date: 14 Oct 2003
Posts: 1,793
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01-22-2006 13:50
would be fairly easy to 'undo'? Almost never happens with LL, Lewis. Once a feature is in, it's in, and that's that. No, this will not only affect furries, not by a long shot. It'll affect mechs, robots, humans with boots and hair, tinies, ninjas, astronauts, whatever. I really -would- like to see a preview as to how this works before it becomes written in stone. |
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Introvert Petunia
over 2 billion posts
Join date: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,065
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Be afraid.
01-22-2006 14:20
The trepidation is warranted.
Even if you ignore the slated features intended to decrease system load in order to cope with a population way beyond design specifications, there has yet to be a significant upgrade that wasn't followed by at least a week of minor chaos, a new update per day or so, and many things that used to work breaking, sometimes until a patch, sometimes forever. This is largely due to LL refusing to learn from the past couple of years experience. They don't test their releases to any meaningful degree, their testing staff is about two people, they have no way at all to test under anything close to typical on-line load, the code is old and "brittle" whereby painting your toenails can cause your ear to fall off (metaphorically speaking). Some find it less aggravating to just wait a couple of weeks while the SL customer base (also known as the beta testers) find all the new bugs and LL has had a chance to patch the most egregious defects. I'd love for history to not repeat itself, but don't have much reason to expect otherwise. |
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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01-22-2006 16:04
I don't understand what the texture cache change implies.
Surely it is not going to ignore higher speed video ram on the video card just because there is a lot of motherboard ram around, is it? _____________________
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan - |
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
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01-22-2006 16:06
I don't understand what the texture cache change implies. Surely it is not going to ignore higher speed video ram on the video card just because there is a lot of motherboard ram around, is it? Re: texture cache change, please see Karen's post here. _____________________
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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01-22-2006 16:07
I would hope so Lewis but in over a year and a half in game I have never to my knowledge seen them back up to a previous version. What usually happens is weeks of trying to fix the fix. Sorry to sound a bit cynical here just seen it happen over and over. |
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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01-22-2006 16:08
the code is old and "brittle" whereby painting your toenails can cause your ear to fall off |
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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01-22-2006 16:12
Re: texture cache change, please see Karen's post here. Aha, thanks Torley, I had already read one post about it and didn't realize there was a new one. It sounds more like the opposite of what I was afraid of, so I will finally get some good out of my 256 megs of video ram. _____________________
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan - |
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Aaron Levy
Medicated Lately?
Join date: 3 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,147
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01-22-2006 16:17
It would seem that this update should have been given some preview grid time. Something that, in theory, could vastly change SL as we know it -- i.e., attachment-heavy avatars being totally destroyed -- should be previewed.
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Michi Lumin
Sharp and Pointy
Join date: 14 Oct 2003
Posts: 1,793
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01-22-2006 16:20
It would seem that this update should have been given some preview grid time. Something that, in theory, could vastly change SL as we know it -- i.e., attachment-heavy avatars being totally destroyed -- should be previewed. Really makes me wonder why it hasn't been... There have been previews for less. |
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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01-22-2006 16:57
I found the list of problems that aren't being addressedin the upcoming release interesting.
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan - |
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Michi Lumin
Sharp and Pointy
Join date: 14 Oct 2003
Posts: 1,793
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01-22-2006 16:59
I found the list of problems that aren't being addressedin the upcoming release interesting. Well, in all honestly, those may be addressed in 1.9, which from what I understand is in process, Suezanne. There are probably two code branches, I don't believe it is all neccessarily sequential. |
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Psyra Extraordinaire
Corra Nacunda Chieftain
Join date: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 1,533
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01-22-2006 17:53
One single Q.
Will we see the same results on our OWN avvies as others see on ours? So we can see first hand how bad it (may) be? _____________________
E-Mail Psyra at psyralbakor_at_yahoo_dot_com, Visit my Webpage at www.psyra.ca
Visit me in-world at the Avaria sims, in Grendel's Children! ^^ |
