With the inexplicable rise in greifer attacks, which is probably in no way related to free, no-check-whatsoever registration, I'm looking at forming a security group specifically for man-in-the-feild operations where we will bitchslap griefers with extreme prejudice. I
If your venue is getting bombed to null and back and you just can't ban fast enough, get some quick shooting, orbit packing, blacklist writing enforcement to flick these griefy motherfuckers back to the crappy MMO they came from.
Writing ARs only does so much, and it does very little right then. The only true way to get results is immediate, unforgiving retaliation. There's no justice like vigilante-for-hire justice!
Anyone interested?
Discuss.
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Would you hire armed security personnel for venues and events? |
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Burke Prefect
Cafe Owner, Superhero
Join date: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,785
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06-15-2006 14:09
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Hugsy Penguin
Sky Junkie
Join date: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 851
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06-15-2006 14:47
This would be a good idea if the armed security personnel could be able to do their jobs without violating the TOS themselves. To clarify, I think that land owners should be able to defend their land against griefing by almost any means possible.
(I'd say "all means possible" but I'm sure there's an exception to the rule. Although, I haven't thought of it because I haven't thought about this issue all that much). _____________________
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Hugsy Penguin |
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Karsten Rutledge
Linux User
Join date: 8 Feb 2005
Posts: 841
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06-15-2006 14:52
This would be a good idea if the armed security personnel could be able to do their jobs without violating the TOS themselves. To clarify, I think that land owners should be able to defend their land against griefing by almost any means possible. (I'd say "all means possible" but I'm sure there's an exception to the rule. Although, I haven't thought of it because I haven't thought about this issue all that much). What he said. Griefers grief for the reaction they get, they'd probably love an all out firefight, cause then they can AR you just as much as you can them. _____________________
 New products, updates, rants, randomness. Addictive high-quality games for sale: Greedy Greedy, On-A-Roll, Mancala and the newly released Khet laser strategy game. |
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Hugsy Penguin
Sky Junkie
Join date: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 851
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06-15-2006 14:55
That's one of the good arguments for not fighting back; you're just providing more entertainment for the griefers. I do think that if the land owner decided to fight back anyway, they should be able to do so with repercussions.
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Hugsy Penguin |
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Burke Prefect
Cafe Owner, Superhero
Join date: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,785
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06-15-2006 14:57
What he said. Griefers grief for the reaction they get, they'd probably love an all out firefight, cause then they can AR you just as much as you can them. Not necesarily a firefight. Mostly people standing by to eject and ban. And by eject, I mean really, really hard. There'd still need to be a land controller nearby, however. |
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Yiffy Yaffle
Purple SpiritWolf Mystic
Join date: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,802
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06-15-2006 15:15
I take care of my own terf ;p
Although i do have a group of people that act as Rangers/Guardians. But their only weapon is the Security System. No guns.  When better group controls come along i'm hoping i can allow "some" people access to banning/ejecting people (without full access to land control) using the estate or parcel system instead. Then i can remove the laggy security balls.  _____________________
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Jamie David
Registered User
Join date: 8 Jun 2006
Posts: 123
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To hire protection is extortion no?
06-15-2006 15:21
Hire us so you don't have troubles.
How is one to know the security Company is not causing it? Can a security agent tell any faster than I that this person is a troll? Can one tell that they are about to dump one prim that self replicates? Catch it in time? Sadly the solution is goign to be close down outside prims, scripts and just be ready to ban. |
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Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
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06-15-2006 15:28
Hire us so you don't have troubles. How is one to know the security Company is not causing it? Can a security agent tell any faster than I that this person is a troll? Can one tell that they are about to dump one prim that self replicates? Catch it in time? Sadly the solution is goign to be close down outside prims, scripts and just be ready to ban. Because the secutiry is Burke Prefect, thats why. Burke is cool like that. I'd still just turn damage on and blast with a nonphys autokill.  |
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Ryan00 Odets
just a stupid redneck!
Join date: 17 Dec 2005
Posts: 289
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06-15-2006 21:53
Well if LL isnt gonna police the grid, whay cant they I dunno maybe do some checking and give people who wanna do this upgrade accounts or some sorta monthly stippen? I mean if I am out shopping or just explorering somewhere and I see ,IMO, somebody gettin slack.grief I will stick around and see whats going on and if I feel its not just then I stick my nose in and try to help the person out. Yes a couple of times it ended up in me gettin orbited but when i suddenly appeared right back, because of a lil thing called antiorbit, the griefer had to be thinking ohh crap I messed with the wrong person!
I say LL give certain ppl the ability to police the grid. And to make sure the people arent "posing" as good citizens dont let anybody "apply" randomly pick names from the pool and then check the name against the database of AR's received on this person vs. the age and notiablity of the avatar. Or something along those lines! _____________________
~~~~~~~ryan00~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 http://forums.secondcitizen.com/ |
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Joker Opus
Registered Usimibober
Join date: 9 May 2006
Posts: 363
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personaly...
06-19-2006 13:26
i think fighting greifers in an appropriate place is fun... unless they lag out the sim, or freeze your avatar.. im not a greifer myself, however, i am inventor, and i get a kick out of making anti grefing gadgets,to protect yourself in the sanbox and such things. however like ive said before in other posts, anti greifing/security gadgets can be labeled as greifing in some extent, its only how you use it that counts, so security personel would not be appropriate, unless on defence, not offence.
-Joker Opus, London England |
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Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 4,219
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06-19-2006 13:40
So, how many free alt account security goons are you employing for this, Burke?
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go to Nocturnal Threads
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Kyrah Abattoir
cruelty delight
Join date: 4 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,786
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06-19-2006 14:13
i will take great pleasure to tp home the "so called" grid police
^^ _____________________
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Kalel Venkman
Citizen
Join date: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 587
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Looks like you've got your answer
06-20-2006 07:42
While the level of frustration with the griefer situation is high and getting higher, it looks like the idea of offering armed security services is a non-starter.
If you add up the "No, because.." votes, they're about 60% at this writing. It'll be interesting to see how the Lindens deal with this situation, though. I've seen griefing skyrocket in the last week, easily three times as bad as it was a month ago. |
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Kalel Venkman
Citizen
Join date: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 587
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06-20-2006 07:49
Hire us so you don't have troubles. How is one to know the security Company is not causing it? I'm going to play both sides of the discussion and say that while there may be a security agency out there that does this, most are probably legitimate. Offering security services isn't extortion by default, it's just selling a service - though anybody trying to sell security services has a tough sell, since they can't really do more than be eyes and ears, and you can mostly do that yourself. Not without being in direct violation of the Terms of Service, anyway. While this kind of thing might work in real life, I can't imagine that there would be enough incentive to actually pay somebody that you think might be trying to extort money from you. |
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Star Sleestak
Registered User
Join date: 3 Feb 2006
Posts: 228
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06-20-2006 08:19
You forgot a choice:
No. Because who polices the police? |
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Jessica Elytis
Goddess
Join date: 7 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,783
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06-20-2006 08:53
Yes, but only wihtin ToS compliance. TP-Home/Landban, Land-Eject. (available through scripted objects to group officers, possibly more with new group controls)
No, i'd not hire, nor join, 2 day old John Doe's security force. I would Join Burke's. Why? Cause his IS a name that we all know is in SL for the long haul. Who to hire? Only known names, or longtime accounts. Why? Those are the ones entrenched in SL. Not transients taht will do something stupid and get banned tomorrow and not care. Large landowners already do this. *raises hand as a private force*. They give trusted officers the means to use thier land options. 100% agreeable with th ToS and beats the hell out of griefers over and over again. More to actually hiring the personell, i'd think hiring for training on the systems and providing the systems (or showing where to get them) would be a better solution. Not a big buisness venture, but one geared more towards helping the community as a whole. As I said before, Good Luck, Burke ^.^ ~Jessy _____________________
When your friend does somethign stupid:
Dude, you are a true and good friend, and I love you like the brother that my mom claims she never had, but you are in fact acting like a flaming douche on white toast with a side order of dickknob salsa..maybe you should reconsider this course of action and we go find something else to do. |
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Burke Prefect
Cafe Owner, Superhero
Join date: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,785
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06-20-2006 09:03
Yes, but only wihtin ToS compliance. TP-Home/Landban, Land-Eject. (available through scripted objects to group officers, possibly more with new group controls) No, i'd not hire, nor join, 2 day old John Doe's security force. I would Join Burke's. Why? Cause his IS a name that we all know is in SL for the long haul. Who to hire? Only known names, or longtime accounts. Why? Those are the ones entrenched in SL. Not transients taht will do something stupid and get banned tomorrow and not care. Large landowners already do this. *raises hand as a private force*. They give trusted officers the means to use thier land options. 100% agreeable with th ToS and beats the hell out of griefers over and over again. More to actually hiring the personell, i'd think hiring for training on the systems and providing the systems (or showing where to get them) would be a better solution. Not a big buisness venture, but one geared more towards helping the community as a whole. As I said before, Good Luck, Burke ^.^ ~Jessy Flexible, working systems are coming. If any security system providers would like to get with me on making something compatible with the upcoming blacklist, I'd really appreciate it. Since my somewhat inelegant solution of master parcel server w/ repeater systems spaced around might not work for all. |
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Travis Lambert
White dog, red collar
Join date: 3 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,819
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06-20-2006 09:05
No - it may be a fun idea, but impractical.
As soon as weapons are drawn, not only do griefers end up feeling more empowered to 'retaliate', but patrons have more of a tendency to become vigalante's themselves. And then you end up with a big ol' ball of anarchy. And the majority of people who aren't interested in anarchy - just leave. I'd rather do the Mute-Port Home-File AR trick. Its less fun, but the chances that everyone will move on & go about their buisness are much greater. _____________________
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Burke Prefect
Cafe Owner, Superhero
Join date: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,785
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06-20-2006 09:12
No - it may be a fun idea, but impractical. As soon as weapons are drawn, not only do griefers end up feeling more empowered to 'retaliate', but patrons have more of a tendency to become vigalante's themselves. And then you end up with a big ol' ball of anarchy. And the majority of people who aren't interested in anarchy - just leave. I'd rather do the Mute-Port Home-File AR trick. Its less fun, but the chances that everyone will move on & go about their buisness are much greater. Yeah. The "Busting Caps" thing isn't a good approach. This thread was mainly started in malicious anger. But more reponsive, automated methods would be just fine. TPhome, Eject, Orbit, etc. With ARs filed to back it up. |
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Kalel Venkman
Citizen
Join date: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 587
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06-20-2006 10:42
You forgot a choice: No. Because who polices the police? Very very good point. The problem with police forces and self-appointed security groups is that there is no checks and balances system. They tend to operate unilaterally, with no enforcable rules governing their behavior. |
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Millie Thompson
Resident Moderator
Join date: 18 Dec 2002
Posts: 364
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06-20-2006 10:43
While I'd like to open a can of whoop tail on greifers myself I find the best option in all cases is to:
1.) Kindly ask the greifer to cease their actions and either join in or leave. 2.) If said greifer ignores your request file an abuse report. Eject and ban the greifer. 3.) Contact a Linden to help in assisting the removal of the greifer with a can of Greif-B-Gone. Now I understand that projectiles can't be stopped at property borders yet. But if the greifer keeps blasting away encourage your guests to fill out abuse reports and contact an online Linden to assist with greifer removal. Taking out your ol lawgivers and returning fire is what THEY want. You fire on them and they'll likely return with an abuse report of their own getting YOU in trouble for their enjoyment. The Abuse Reporter, your best defense against greifing. _____________________
Millie Thompson
I am a Resident Moderator. I am a volunteer moderator on this forum, NOT a Linden. If you have any issues or concerns with your Second Life experience please go to Second Life Support  |
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Kalel Venkman
Citizen
Join date: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 587
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06-20-2006 11:03
Doc Nielson, in another thread, points out that if you temporarily turn damage on for your land and blast them while they're on it, no abuse report can take place, so you can safely take out your frustrations on the griefer.
I'm going to guess a lot of the frustration with the AR system comes from its opacity. The only people who know how effective the AR system is, or whether it's effective at all, is Linden Labs - and the responsibility to protect the privacy of their users apparently prevents them from discussing it. |
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Khamon Fate
fategardens.net
Join date: 21 Nov 2003
Posts: 4,177
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06-20-2006 11:41
Sorry, I thought you were kidding. Thanks for the laugh though.
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Visit the Fate Gardens Website @ fategardens.net
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Reina Quine
SHELTER'D!
Join date: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 36
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06-20-2006 11:45
No - it may be a fun idea, but impractical. onionpencil is all the fierce security The Shelter needs, anyway! |
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Ordinal Malaprop
really very ordinary
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 4,607
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06-20-2006 11:48
As a side note, I have been at several events where we've had armed security there (well, we didn't pay for it, one of the sponsors also ran a security company).
The security personnel were excellent and professional but it didn't make an awful lot of difference. The griefers were smart enough not to try direct attacks and just harassed verbally - which is at least mutable - but also attacked the places we met *afterwards*, which were either home locations (which is annoying, and ARs seemed to do nothing over a period of months) or the locations of people who'd allowed us to be there (which is a lot more serious). |
