Commie vs Nazi

Now I know that Nazi stuff is pretty much a bannable offence in SL.

What about communist propaganda including Joseph Stalin and Vladimir Lenin posters? Is outlandish to suggest both these leaders’ commitment atrocities as horrific as anything the Nazi's put together? One could argue Soviet communism was an inspiration for Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge in the early days. They also enslaved half of Europe for 40 years following WW2.

Now I understand the universal disdain for the Nazis and why Lindens choose not to allow there symbols in game. I personally don't care either way. But in all fairness should Soviet Communist Party symbols receive the same treatment, or is there a fundamental difference that I'm missing?

This is just acedemic for me since I feel free speech including hate shit should be alowed as long as there is a means to discuss it.

ah, thank you

I skimmed it quickly and noticed alot of Nazi discussion but was wondering of peoples opinions of Soviet Communist propoganda. Specifically, not in the context of education but as actual SL group complete with a compound area and mine field.

I guess I'm wondering how this is any different than a Nazi compound complete with minefield an active SL group.

Is racial hatred worse than political hatred in the views of the public? I personally feel both the early Soviet Communist regime and the Nazi's are about the same as far as atocities are concerned.

Seriosly.. you could do this for every thread posted in these forums.. but since your a Resmod I wont point that out dont we like merry-go-round topics here ?

Well, as with most communist parties today, the ideology behind communism has been perverted (a perusal of Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto would prove that). Much like democracy has in the United States, Socialism has in Canada, and the list goes on and on.

If you are looking at "atrocities" that occurred under an ideology we would end up banning a lot of groups. The fascists, communists, democrats (not the party), Christians, Muslims, Jews, and all groups associating with them should be in that list of groups that have committed unimaginable atrocities on humanity and promote intolerance.

I personally think it is hypocritical of Linden to ban the Nazi's and still allow monotheistic religious groups be formed.

We don't have to like what the Nazi's have to say but they have the right to say it. To me, they disgust me and therefore I stay away from their ilk. But I also stay away from Christian organizations for the exact same reason.

No, they didn't enslave anybody - they brought in a system of government that was totalitarian and in some ways repressive. That is not slavery, and it is hyperbole to describe it as such.

Stalin was responsible for an enormous loss of life, as great as was Hitler. They were both figures out of a nightmare.

The difference, I think, and what made the nazi atrocities resonate so much with us, was the efficiency with which a genocidal policy was carried out. It was set up like a national company. I think Hitler will always remain the symbol for evil - until the next nightmare dictator comes along.

The other difference, I think, is the... for lack of a better word, the maliciousness that the Nazi regime had. Both were terrible, brutal, inhumane systems of death and opression, but somehow the Nazi's choice of targets make it seem... More evil, I guess.

I'm not defending that attitude, or saying its right, but I think it exists.

I'm not sure why. Both regimes targeted Jews, Gypsies, and other religious and ethnic groups for "special solutions" - including systematic exploitation, torture, and efficient, large-scale genocide.

On the other hand, fascism was constructed on such solutions, whereas Stalinism was a perversion of socialism, which is - workable or not - rather more humane than liberal capitalism, even.

If we start banning iconography in SL for its association with exploitation, torture, and genocide, however, we're not going to have much iconography left.Maybe the Girl Scouts. Or... maybe not.

For that matter, the British Empire (a most definitely capitalist one) carried out large-scale massacres, invented the concentration camp and brought misery and death to millions.

One thing to remember about Nazi iconography and imagery is that it's actually still in use today to threaten and intimidate.

Yes I suppose my statement be considered an exaggeration. Saying the Soviets never enslaved anybody is just as ludercious. Gulags and the kidnaping of POWs (for decades after the end of ww2). I'm sure it's not the exact word you would use but I think people get the general idea.

Is this true?

I had a guy show up at my store one day dressed in a full Nazi uniform -- swastika arm band included. Was he violating the TOS?

Gray area. It depends to an extent on the context.

Close but not quite.

The Nazis had a very focused national policy that called for extermination of an entire people (Jews) along with political enemies. The Soviets had a more democratic policy -- political enemies were always the main target regardless of race, religion or creed. And their methods did not include most efficient means of mass slaughter - they just worked and starved people to death.

And while the Soviets conducted inhumane experiments on prisoners, it was never on the scale and cruelty of the Nazis. We're talking degrees of inhumanity here, which is a little specious.

But the main reason Soviet Communism hasn't been villified like the Nazis is because the Nazis were our enemies in war and the Communists were our allies. Propaganda has had a trans-generational effect. When FDR was calling Stalin "Uncle Joe" and NY Times reporters were printing pro-Soviet editorials clear into the '50s, the difference is pretty apparent.

In an alternate universe, the Germans would not have fallen to fascism and we probably would have fought the Russians in the 50s or 60s with Germany as our allies. Then the entire rubric of state propaganda would have been totally different, as would the world map.

China is a communist country and if the Lindens where inclined to expend 200% + they would launch this service in China.

just like Google, Coka Cola, nike etc etc

Stalin was a communist leader but to decree that someone communist is on a par with a nazi is offensive.

I see the american flag all over the place in SL and if I was a muslim I'm sure Id be highly offended by its provocation more than I am.

What about everyones freedom of speech.

As someone posted previous most groups and countries have done shameful acts.

Is there a problem with the Communist party?

well unfortunately, some are granted "more" freedom of speech than others, its what happend when most peoples do not "think out of the box"

No one's mentioned the fact that Nazi symbols are banned in Germany, and any game which contains such symbology is also banned. There have been several wargames (thinking Hearts of Iron mainly) which had to remove all swastikas from their graphics in order to market within the borders of Germany.

To my knowledge, no one's banned the Hammer & Sickle. As I said previously, the reasons have more to do with the relics of WW2 propaganda than they do a moral judgment, but them's the facts.

With respect, considering the quantity, ferocity, and intensity of Cold War propaganda the United States marketed against the Soviet Union from 1948 to 1984 (and vice versa) - far more than focused on Nazi Germany - I don't buy this.

I think it has far more to do with the tacit understanding among many opinion-leaders that the Soviet Union represented a deadly perversion of a valid political alternative, whereas fascism was constructed on a pre-modern mysticism that was barbaric and bloody by nature.

Yup.

Rwanda - Hutus, Jean Kambanda and the Interahamwe.

"genocide is justified in the fight against the enemy."

Well my OP was concering the difference between Soviet Communist and the Nazi Party of germany. Do I personally have a problem with the Soviet Communist party? Well, not anymore than I do with Adolph Hitler's Nazi party but not much less either.

I pretty much agree with Cindy that the U.S. would have very likely have fought the Soviet Union if it wasn't for WW2. Germany falling in on the side of the United States.

Idi Amin of Uganda, Offical title: His Excellency President for Life, Field Marshal Al Hadji Doctor Idi Amin, VC, DSO, MC, Lord of All the Beasts of the Earth and Fishes of the Sea, and Conqueror of the British Empire in Africa in General and Uganda in Particular.

I already mentioned Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge.

I agree. The Nazis killed far, far fewer people.