Props to Burke!

So I was building mine and my associate's new club, The Underground Sex Club, and we had 6 people who live two homes over show up. Thinking, "sweet, early patrons", we let them in.

After marching around with "God Hates Furries" signs and harassing my friend Fox (who often plays an overweight lesbian av), making a poster that says "God Hates Feys" and started rezzing it all over the place. He tried to build signs several times.

I'd asked him to leave, then shot him with my C36. His friends seemed to back his behavior, and I allowed him to come back once to apologize. Naturally, the behavior resumed, and he started building things taht had the posters on them (which I returned like crazy to his inventory, ruining it I hope). This time, pissed, I shot him and all his friends who were now wielding the signs and preaching against Furdom, saying all Furries were abominations against nature, and so are fat people.

He comes back and orbits me. For those of you unfamiliar with an orbit, it means he launches you skyward with a grief attack at an elevation and speed that makes your av shake apart, getting worse the higher it goes. The only cure is to log off and back on. I'd already AR'd once, so I AR'd again.

By the time I was able to set my bans and turn off scripts, I'd been orbited 3 times. Remembering Burke Prefect offering a security service, I contacted him.

And I love his response.

He sent me a better Orbit system than the person was using against me.

So, now banned, the griefer (who had a PAYMENT CONFIRMED account) started rezzing the posters and slide-dropping them into my club through the walls. I sat down on a prim on my roof and started firing my C36 to ward him away while I awaited some sign of Linden help, which was sadly not there. It made him scoot too close to my property on the prim he was seated on.

Apparently, the orbit I was given vaulted his prim object right along with him. Never saw that happen before, maybe it was physics enabled? Better, he had set his respawn to be wherever he was when he left, so when he had to log, he logged in in orbit. For some reasons, teleports don't work in orbit unless invited, and he had to have someone invite him away. That only worked after he abandoned his little prim vehicle which is somewhere at 354684164684168 or so meters above sea level right about now. Haven't had a problem since.

This is exactly why I say we focus on LL creating better landowner toolsets and personal anti-grief options than to go on a newbie-unconfirmed witch hunt.

You can teleport down from being orbited, you just have to do it the right way is all. I do it all the time in the combat sims. If someone orbits me I am back within 15 seconds and shoot them.

One problem is if the orbitter is still running, if they tp back into that sim (thanks to really, really stupid scripting allowances) the whole ride starts over.

Oh. And you can get that orbitter on my signature. I don't have it in my store for obvious reasons (people want to test it). Proceeds go towards paying my rent and for paying code bounties for better future products.

I am no doubt too idealistic, but I have never understood the fun for griefers in the first place. I get so frustrated just reading about this sort of thing happening to people. How much energy was wasted harrassing you in the first place? And did they intentionally plan to hurt people's feelings, or was that just incidental?

I am left feeling as if these sorts of griefers aren't even malicious per se -- simply bored with life and having nothing better to do with their time, so they develop ways to attract attention for themselves and create their own little "games/conflicts" that they can then try to win.

You're right, though, about needing better tools to deal with griefing... rather than punishing newbies as a group. Still, as always, it looks like SL citizens (rather than LL) will develop their own effective methods and innovations to counter rude behavior.

Rhynalae, heres a blackboarded explaination explaining the problem with greifers.

Just because it's too good to let ANYONE miss, Here's Burke's Link in working form.

This particular person claimed I was violating his right to free speech by telling him he couldn't protest against furries at my club (For those who are unaware, I'm a furry as are some of my patrons), as well as telling him to desist insulting my friend for her appearance.

I hate armchair lawyers.

Tell him "ammendments don't apply here."
If he resists, add the words "you damn hippie."

I need copies of the bill of rights that serve as push-ammo.


Edit: Better yet, a gun that sprouts the Community Standards and ToS on the target's hud whenever a bullet hits, with relevant parts highlighted!

Well, tell them it's SL and not RL.

Then point them out even if it's RL, since it's SL people could be in any country and whatever bill of rights / free speech he might want to utter might not be applicable to others.

Then point out, that since it's SL and since it's your club, you are King, and he's at your mercy.

This is where you start freezing his ass.

??

profit?!

Make me a good 512x texture with that and I'll make you a bullet.

Better than a bullet. Have note cards with the stuff, and when certain people like this show up, have them spammed to them. They'd have to mute you out eventually, and then it would completely defeat their pupose.

Something like this is what got a certain Tranny banned from SL.

While I emphathize with the OP, and regret that people feel it necessary to behave in this fashion. Im concerned that I seem to be hearing a lot in the vein of retaliation, which leads inevitably to escalation.

While the original situation is regrettable, we have to be careful that our own actions are beyond reproach. We wouldn't want help to arrive to find us with our own behavior in question. It would be shame to call for help and end up in trouble ourselves.

I would counsel patience and calm, difficult as it may be sometimes.

Dont mean to sound preachy .... but I worry about otherwise innocent players becoming involved in this sort of situation where the line between victim and villain is blurred.

Hope things improve for you ... and good luck with your club

Damn, I was just thinking along the same lines. Sending them a thousand notecards or filling their inventory with roses would be nice.

LOL this is defiantly material for the infamous fucktard award

the ass hat furry hatters have no rights to free speech in your place of business real life or second life once you have asked them to leave, and if they don't leave upon your request you can have them removed forcibly.

got to love the fucktards of this world they do make for some entertaining silliness.

One or two would be okay, but more than that would create a massive strain on the asset server and could serve to get you banned.

Jim Lumiere's right - and a part of why he's right is that it's very hard for the Lindens to determine who shot with malice and who shot in self defense, so the limitations of their tools and their personal time force them to treat all wielders of weapons in the same general way.

This end result unfortunately has little to do with moral or ethical standards, and much more to do with the pure practicalities involved in sorting through AR reports using tools that only tell a small part of the story.

In short, most of the time, the Linden Abuse Team is unable to tell the difference, so they have to treat you the same as the griefers.

The flip side to this is that because their tools and time are limited, so, by definition, is their ability to respond in any meaningful way. However, I wouldn't want to be on the wrong end of the stick when a Linden happened to pick it up.

So someone started griefing you and then you griefed them back? You were as much against the TOS as he was after that and could be AR'd yourself for shooting/orbitting him.

The property owner should be permitted to "grief" players on their property.

The benefit of the doubt should be weighted heavily in favor of the property owner.

I've been griefed in various places, but never by the person whose inherent best interest it is not to grief me - the property owner seeking traffic.

I see no issue with allowing property owners to use whatever tools necessary - game mechanic or purchased, to respond to issues on their property.

The griefer has a simple solution to the "griefing" from the property owner - don't go back to that property. The property owner has two solutions, deal with it themselves immediately for the benefit of their friends/customers or allow the disruption to continue until and if/when they get a response to their AR.