Gender etiquette

I play both SL and Eve Online for a couple of years. Both games host a large number of trans-gendered AV’s.
I guess it’s been an unwritten rule to me and I’m thinking in general that you don’t just publicly ask someone their RL gender.

I don’t know if is coincidence but recently I’ve personally witnessed 3 separate indents of people either openly harassing someone on the notion that someone is a guy in a girl AV or just matter of factly asking someone’s RL gender in a crowded area.

I was really taken back every time I witnessed this. For some reason it’s become common practice. I consider this the same as walking up to someone in a crowded RL supermarket and asking them if they are transsexual.

Is this some new form of griefing, or are people really becoming that callous?

I'm female, I play both male and female since IRL, I feel like I'm stuck inbetween.

If someone asks me, I will tell them. If they find it a problem, then ok... I don't need to become friends with them, simple enough.

Most trans people will probably say they are whatever gender they feel like inside, anyway.

I don't want to become friends with mean people who don't like someone because their shown gender in a game isn't their real gender.

A couple of thoughts:

First of all, harassing somone over their supposed RL gender in SL is a flat out TOS violation, and the harasser should be ARed.

Second, most of the paranoia I've seen about people who might be playing an av with a different gender, IMO, comes from men who are playing "lesbians" who are terrified that they might run into another man doing the same thing they are, thus making them "gay" somehow.

If it's male av's being worried about female av's being played by other guys...again, I suspect homophobia at work.

In any case, they need to keep their questions and their issues to themselves, and if they can't, they should be ARed.

People are really that callous, in some cases. Sometimes people just don't think before they speak. Other times they are just genuinely rude and lack basic social skills.

If someone presents themselves as female through their AV, I treat them as such. If they present themselves as Male, I treat them as such. If I am unsure (robot, or androgynous AV) I ask.

I have friends who witch around sexes - and of they are feamle today, then thats the way I behave towards them, and so forth.

Gender etiquette to me means not trying to ruin somebody else's SL experience, and accepting them for what they say and/or show they are.

Meh, if anyone asks me about my RL gender, I just tell them my RL gender... which is what my AV represents, depending on my mood. So they won't be the wiser... and if they want to know my RL sex, they'll have to come over here IRL, I'l drop my skirt and show them LOL

If anyone wants to make a problem of it, they can very merrily kiss my tush ^.^

I can think of very few reasons why I would need to know the gender of another avatar, in world or RL, much less that of a robot.

I can imagine why others would, some folks are unsure how to treat another individual unless they are sure of the gender. Those are the folks that need to look within and ask why that is. If I don't know how to greet you unless I know whether you're male or female...... I have a leeeetle bit of work to do.

In general, I find kindness, clarity and good humor work with any and all genders, including the genderless.

Only person I need to know the RL gender of in SL, I know, and he played a female av for a rather long time, anyone else, you can be male female or neuter, and I don't really care. Only people who are out for RL sex or are rampantly homophobic demand to know genders in my opinion.

One thing I do feel (and this is merely my own opinion, flame me for it or not i can take it ) is that once someone is involved in an ongoing intimate relationship with someone then they really should be up front. If you're a woman and you like running around in a male AV for the feel of it or for whatever reasons you have, thats your business. But if you get involved in a relationship with a woman whom you know is attracted to the man she believes you to be, then you really are under an obligation to let her know the truth before it goes too far and someone gets hurt.

I had this happen to a friend of mine once and it was devasting when she found out that the man she'd been married to in SL and so enamoured with that they had actually made plans (false as it turned out) to meet in RL, was actually a married woman with children.

Beyond that particular scenerio I really couldn't care less what gender someone chooses to be. I treat you as I see you. In fact I have often made the mistake of referring to someone as "he" when actually they are a she simply because their name isn't gender specific and I haven't bothered to look at their AV.

But the one thing I would never do is ask someone in open chat what their RL gender is because they may not wish to tell everyone in chat range. I see that as tantamount to the time a guidance counselor looked me up and down once in highschool and asked me, "What are you?" when I checked off the "other" box on a race question on a form. (back when they still asked that question on forms and still had only a few options). I told him I was human.

I'm a roleplayer (in RL not SL) and I don't mind people crossing genders. But that's mainly because I'm not after a relationship. I will not imagine a relationship here as one that will progress to reality.

But if ever it might happen, then the normal precautions come into play, asking, verifying, and eyeballing, before anything becomes serious. I've met people iRL whom I've first met online, some meetings went smashingly well, some not so good. I think I'm doing above par for the course.

I've had very bad experiences with online relationships going awry when it turned 'real', one of my few online flings turned out it was one of my most hated co-worker (eww ewww icckkkk!) and he was married (dear gawd), the worst case was a stalker.

So I make it clear that everything I do online from then on is roleplay and will remain online. No damn EBs, phone number exchanges, or even guild gimmicks.

If people ask, I tell them I'm a girl. If they don't want to believe me it's not my problem. :-/

I treat people in SL (so far) depending on their SL gender. I don't even bother to ask neither does it matter to me. You choose who you are in SL and I respect that. All I ask is to be treated the same way.

I believe in a lot of cases that it is simply a complete lack of social skills, or the belief that they do not apply to a computer game, forgetting that they are talking to real people.

a/s/l?

People get both my SL and RL sex wrong much of the time. I don't mind if they do it - I realise they're trying to get it right, they just don't know. I've never been offended when someone asks my age, location, RL sex or anything like that... if I don't want to tell them, I just say so.
Why do people get offended if you ask them for their RL details? People do it to me quite a bit and I just tell them I don't answer questions about my RL, then change topic. The fact that some people get offended when you ask their RL details confuses me. Ok, their RL details aren't relavant to their av, but why get offended if people ask for them? Just say they're private and move on?
Ok, if someone harasses you about it, then that's harassment, fine.... but if someone just politely asks, what is there to get offended about? It's just a polite question, same as any other.

For the most part, I agree. :)

People tend to go by the 'first rule of the internet', being that there are no females on the internet, etc. It's like a saftey hazard, but without an open mind, sometimes it can backfire.

For example - I have several friends, that for the life of me, no matter what information I provide, are convinced that I am a female simply because they have not physically met me in person. o_O

The OP specified the scenario of being in a crowd. Inquiring about personal info in a public area isn't polite in that it removes the "personal" part of it.

It would seem to me that it's merely a question to start needless drama. It's like walking up to a guy in a crowded place in public and saying ---

"HEY! Is that a @#$%@? It hangs down. Little buldge going on. Seems all the parts are there! @#$%, it even looks like a @#$%@!

Dare I ask you once again, sir, even though it is so obvious - is that a @#$%@?"

There are much better ways to start talking to someone even in SL, how about the old standby, hello how are you?

I agree. :) But, I think the OP was meaning more of a thing a bit further into knowing a specific avatar for some time. Could be wrong, though.



EDIT: GrahghaGhahGHh. Why can't my option on smileys being disabled be remembered? ;_;

I play primarily as female characters. I also play a few males. Obviously only one of those is truly me. It's just roleplaying to me, and not a dating service for RL. I rarely engage in intimate behavior with others in SL, so for the most part my gender at that moment really is just a question of how I feel that Avatar should be accepted. I accept all other player's avatars at face value in this regard as well, even if for one reason or another I know their Player is of the opposite gender.

If someone casually and/or publicly asks my female character her gender, she will reply that she is female. If someone casually asks my male character their gender, he will reply that he is male. Because as far as the Character is concerned, they are that gender. You could meet both of them side by side, and not casually be able to tell that one was being played by someone of the opposite gender, let alone that both were being played by the same person.

If someone wants to be more than 'just friends', I have a nice, private chat with them and set some ground rules. The most important of these are that any such 'relationship' is to be taken solely as roleplay between those two characters, and that I never offer more than platonic friendship to the person on the other side of the keyboard. "Ceera" is a single female with a steady Companion in SL, who on occasion does see other people. My Player is quite happily married, and not in the least bit interested in a RL affair. I make this clear before any 'intimacy' ever happens, and if they are not OK with limiting it to that, it goes no further. If they are OK with that, then the relationship might proceed further. But even then, I don't ask their RL gender, nor do I offer mine. If they want to be friends with my female character, I refer to myself in RL as female, if that comes up. If they want to be friends with my male character, I refer to myself in RL as male, if that comes up. To do otherwise compromises my own privacy, and also spoils a lot of the roleplay 'magic' that can happen when people really get into their character portrayal and present that well.

To me, if someone is male and they can play a female character quite well, more power to them. I appreciate realistic roleplay, and since I don't care at all about ever having more than a platonic friendship with their real person, why should I care if the genders don't match? Truly, I would rather NOT know, so I can better accept the person as they present themselves.

If someone really wants to know "the true me", and flat out says they want to know the gender and/or age of the person typing all this, then I will honestly tell them, privately, that information. But I ask first that they do not reveal it to others, as I don't want my own roleplay efforts disrupted. There are only a handfull of people in SL that know for sure if my Player really is male or female, and I would prefer to keep it that way.

In those cases where someone tells me what their true gender is, I keep that confidential. In a few cases, some males that play females ask me for advice in how to present themselves better. I help where I can.

In a few rare cases, where someone is playing a gender role poorly, I may privately contact them and mention that it seems they are behaving in a manner that is not consistent with the gender that they are portraying. I don't accuse, and I certainly don't make a public fuss over it or treat them badly for it. I just make an observation that in my experience, it seems that most people of that gender would instead behave in another manner, which I chat with them about. Usually this results in an admission of "Oops! Was I that obvious?" and "Thanks for the advice!".

Excellent presentation, Ceera, from both a personal, and general viewpoint. I applaud you.


EDIT: Decided not to quote to save space. I'm sure the point gets across. :)

I don't care if someone asks me my RL gender as that's pretty much a non-issue. Anything more intimate, I will simply respond with, "I'm sorry, I don't give out my RL details." And then I move on to another topic. I don't get offended by it, but I am not comfortable with giving out more information than someone needs.

I don't ask gender unless it's really hard to tell. Otherwise, if you are wearing a frilly dress and pigtails, I will simply assume you are a girl. Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't mind. Some guys are into frilly things, I know I'll cheerfully refer to you as "It" for the gender pronoun, if it will make you happy. I'm pretty easy going on the whole gender deal.

Lace and chain.

Rawr.

*giggle* I do recall one time a stranger popping in on a friend of mine and I while we were privately enjoying a hot tub. Rather rude of them, as the door to the spa had been closed and locked, and they had used a camera and sit trick to gain entry. But we tried to treat them politely anyway, whilst we were neck deep in the spa. The person seemed in appearance to be female, and we addressed them as such, only to be corrected, politely, with the information that they were a 'girly boy', a submissive male who liked dressing and wearing makeup like a female. Whatever floats your boat, I guess... We chatted for a while, politely told them to look elsewhere for a dominating master type, which they had stated they were seeking, and we went on with our roleplay as best we could.

Of course, the stranger may have been even more confused as to how to address us, as my invited guest was a hermaphrodite... As was quite obvious if one looked into the waters of the spa at what 'she' looked like below the waist.

Incidentally, I apply the same rules to a Players RL age, as well. As long as they assure me they are above the age of consent in their home town, and at least 18 years of age, I don't care if their Player is 18 or 80. I'll accept the presented age of the character as offered. Ceera is "somewhere in her 20's in appearance, and an immortal creature well over 700 years old in reality" if you ask her. My own RL age is no one's business. One does not ask a lady her age!