Second Life Forums Archive - Redundancy and City infrastructure

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Redundancy and City infrastructure
Claude Desmoulins Registered User Join date: 1 Nov 2005 Posts: 388	02-15-2006 08:05 Pelanor wrote [post=894599]here[/post] about redundancy and protecting infrastructure. He's right that the comments don't belong where they are (in a thread about the SC's veto power), so I'm starting this thread to contain them. Pelanor wrote From: someone Yes, of course, the IP of things we individually make rests with us. And I understand if I sell to the city, that the city owns it, and this is as it should be. Now, is there a "City" or "Land Trustee Avatar"? If so, who is it controlled by? I think it ought to be controlled by the LRA. Yes, it's Rudeen Edo, an alt of Sudane, the city treasurer, who also happens to be Guildmeister, although as pointed out earlier, the roles are stucturally separate and just happen to be filled by the same person at the moment. From: someone The idea of distributing prim ownership in the land-managment group is interesting and worthy, if say each officer owns different things, then no one person could wreck the city. As it stands, if I understand, any single land mgmt officer could go off the deep end and destroy all public works. Correct me here. I think, as a general concept, the city (read RA) must own public/city supported land and the non-copyable non-modifiable prims. If all land mgmt officers own all public prims, then I suppose it wouldn't be too hard to "reinstall" the city if a rogue went nuts and was banished. Is that the idea? Who makes up the land-mgmt team? AC only, no one in the RA I hope, if so, why would the RA/treasury pay for anything twice? The current structure of SL group tools doesn't allow this. In a group situations, all officers have absolute power, so any officer could destroy everything. All you could do is have different persons own different bits so one person couldn't destroy it all. From: someone I fear a Guildmaster or Guild master artisan with huge public work projects built in NB leaving NB without sharing knowledge with the Guild. This danger can't be guarded against if the RA contracts with the outside. This almost happened with Ulrika. She at one point threatened to pull up all her objects when she left, until it was pointed out that the Neualtenburg TOS, which she in large part wrote, doesn't allow it. A similar thing goes with land. In the eyes of Linden Lab, Rudeen "owns" the sim (i.e. is responsible for making the monthly tier payment) Until the improved group tools come along, this is probably the best we can do. Giving copyable versions of city property, when possible, to an additional government official probably isn't a bad idea.
Pelanor Eldrich Let's make a deal... Join date: 8 Feb 2006 Posts: 267	Thanks for that...not trying to make it onerous... 02-15-2006 12:54 I actually like the treasury to be run the the GM. This is especially true if you get into fund management. BTW the city bonds (if not already) should be issued from the city central bank (i.e. treasury). I just don't know how to mitigate the risk of a rogue GM on embezzlement. The check here is reconciling spending transactions based on approved spending bills with the GM monthly financials. I think splitting the treasury among GM/SC alts is too ponderous. To absolutely verify the $L treasury balance, you could get the 3 branch trustee alts in a circle and transfers the treasury, ending back at the starting AC-treasury alt. Pass the buck! Ok, end of month: --------------------- GM reports finances to RA RA looks at passed spending bills Figure out discrepancies Make the reconciled statement public record Verify the Treasury balance (pass the buck) GM alt transfers tier funds $L to LRA alt LRA alt converts to $USD paypal Tier is paid Paypal tier account ($USD) balance is reported from LRA to Guild Ok, just an idea. On the public prim ownership and land ownership scheme, I wasn't suggesting group/officer ownership: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GM alt gets public + guild contract IP (copy/mod) SC alt gets public + guild contract IP (copy/mod LRA alt gets all land ownership + all public (non-copy non-mod prims) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just need to figure out how to make public land maintenance/volunteer works etc. easy with this scheme: -If you have non-copy, non-mod can you delete a prim you own? Maybe take+delete? If so, the LRA alt can delete prims at the request of the GM. Guild can then do maintenance. What I'm getting at here is that if the city owns and can copy items like N'Burg trees and lamposts etc. at will, then RA will only buy 1 of these items from the Guild and just make copies and install them on their own. It costs something like $2billion to make the first new generation Intel CPU (R&D etc.), each CPU thereafter costs $0.02 to make. Intel wouldn't do well if it could only sell 1 CPU of each generation. Instead it sells millions of them @ $300-$900. In many ways, this is no different than producing here in SL. That's why the RA should not have copyable-modifiable public work prims. Maybe the RA guild members should be forced away from nuts and bolts public projects and limited to private enterprise while in office. Just a thought. Trying to safeguard the guild from getting ripped off by the RA. Can you tell I stared my RL career as a software tester? Ok, maybe Claude's right, forget city prim ownership by the LRA alt, just have the IP owned by 2 branch alt trustees (AC & SC).
Traxx Hathor Architect Join date: 11 Oct 2004 Posts: 422	02-15-2006 16:57 From: Claude Desmoulins In the eyes of Linden Lab, Rudeen "owns" the sim (i.e. is responsible for making the monthly tier payment) Until the improved group tools come along, this is probably the best we can do. The proposed improvements to the group tools won't help, Claude. I was at one of the focus meetings -- here's an excerpt from the (authorized) transcript: From: someone Daniel Linden: Linden Lab will retaining a billing relationship with ONE person -- the Estate Owner. After that, it's up to you. Dana Bergson: tier payments for sold land on an estate. who would get them Hiro Queso: OK, I am excited by the idea, I just worry about abuse of this. Whats to stop someone setting up, selling land etc, then they default payments to you guys. what happens then? Turgar Nilsson nods Turgar Nilsson: it would be defaulted to the Owner Traxx Hathor: good question Traxx Hathor: He meant the guy in charge skips Turgar Nilsson: who would still ultimately be responsible Im thinking? First Page: ok.. then back to the 'selling of it' you really are not selling it Hiro Queso: But we only need one person to do this, and then all such transactions will be black marked Turgar Nilsson: oh i see Daniel Linden: Ideally, I suppose, that defaulted Estate and it's customers could be sold to another operator. Dana Bergson: Sorry to repeat but .... tier payments for sold land on an estate. who would get them First Page: you are simply giving it a different name Dana Bergson: ? First Page: .... Jeska Linden: I'm not sure what the question is - Hiro Queso goes to order 50 estate sims Hiro Queso: LOL Dana Bergson: when land is sold on an estate Dana Bergson: do i as the buyer of that estate Dana Bergson: pay still tioer to lindens? Dana Bergson: or do the new owners pay Jeska Linden: The tier would be paid for by the estate owner to Linden Lab Dana Bergson: ok ... Traxx Hathor: so no change there Turgar Nilsson: and collected from the residents First Page: lol so im hearing that basically the estate owner would still be the only controlling power on the estate this cannot be split? thus not really allowing anyone to be a duel owner of a sim Daniel Linden: No. If you purchase a Parcel on an Estate, you'll pay the Estate Owner or Operator. First Page: rather be the controlling factor of on with the same and more controls we have? Daniel Linden: The Estate Owner pays their Estate fees to Linden.