Second Life Forums Archive - Scientific Council Meeting, Rathaus of Neualtenburg, Sunday, Jan 29th, 1:30PM SL time

Scientific Council Meeting, Rathaus of Neualtenburg, Sunday, Jan 29th, 1:30PM SL time
Gwyneth Llewelyn Winking Loudmouth Join date: 31 Jul 2004 Posts: 1,336	01-28-2006 19:22 Hello all, Since the departure of Ulrika, the SC is "headless" and it's up to the remaining SC members to elect a new Dean and get the SC back into shape. For this purpose, the SC will meet next Sunday (tomorrow for most of you!) at 1:30 PM SL time, at the Rathaus. As usual, everyone is welcome to attend and (if you're a citizen) to participate. Here is the agenda for this meeting: Election of new Dean (and finding a replacement on the RA, since both members of the SC are elected members at the RA as well) Formal proposal for new candidates as members of the SC Forum moderation, elaborating guidelines thereof Note that this proposal will highly likely need further approval by the RA as well. Schedule of meetings (technically, we should meet once a month) Preparation for guidelines on the constitutional discussion — ie. what threads are needed, how should the SC aid the process, etc. Work in progress: defining "citizenship", untying it from "land ownership" again (to allow for the new rental models) _____________________
Gwyneth Llewelyn Winking Loudmouth Join date: 31 Jul 2004 Posts: 1,336	Transcript of meeting 02-04-2006 09:53 Sorry for the delay in posting this. Ulrika's web site has been down, so I haven't been able to use her colourizer script, and I had to create my own :( Gwyneth Llewelyn is in the chair. Sudane Erato: the chairman touches the recorder to start it Gwyneth Llewelyn: All righty! Sudane Erato: yep Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hear Ye, Hear Ye, Neualteburgers, fair and wise, the Scientific Council is in session! Sudane Erato: yay! Diderot Mirabeau: aye Gwyneth Llewelyn does complicated cerimonial Aliasi Stonebender: /play canned cheering loops. Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Aliasi :) Sudane Erato: :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, item one of the agenda... Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... if I can find it... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pfft. Well. Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's the election of the Dean. Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh oh Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah. Sudane Erato: so... who are the voters? Diderot Mirabeau: not me I think Gwyneth Llewelyn: I got a net hiccup for a moment there. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sadly to say, it's only Aliasi and myself. Sudane Erato: and... not Aliasi Aliasi Stonebender: exactly, since I'm RA. Sudane Erato: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes... indeed. Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, actually, this is highly irregular. Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is but one candidate :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: And one voter. Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL Sudane Erato: Neualtenburg is highly irregular Aliasi Stonebender: well, not HIGHLY irregular, we're ALWAYS irregular. Gwyneth Llewelyn: True to our ancient tradition of irregularities... Sudane Erato: high... always... :) Sudane Erato: shrug Diderot Mirabeau listens intently Gwyneth Llewelyn: At this point, a member of the SC should stand up in their toga or uniform... Sudane Erato: :) Sudane Erato: Aliasi! Gwyneth Llewelyn: and ask if Gwyn would accept the honour to serve as Dean Gwyneth Llewelyn <elbows Aliasi from her slumber> Aliasi Stonebender: ahem Sudane Erato: you're allowed to do that Aliasi Stonebender: Gwyn, are you going to do this job, here, or what? Gwyneth Llewelyn: "or what", well. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since you put it that way... Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's with the utmost pleasure that I accept, although I'm not worthy of this honour. Sudane Erato: yay!!! Sudane Erato: bravo!!! Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl Aliasi Stonebender: hooray! Diderot Mirabeau: I think you'll be just fine for the job :-) Gwyneth Llewelyn: The transcript will be lovely... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well... Gwyneth Llewelyn: At least, there will be a way for the SC to remove me from the job easily, from now on :) Sudane Erato: :) Sudane Erato: isn't that the Guildmaster's job? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, item #2 Sudane Erato: to initiate impeach,ment? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah lol... well, the Dean is elected by the peers Gwyneth Llewelyn: And can be removed from office by the peers as well. Sudane Erato: yes Diderot Mirabeau: in this case ... peer Sudane Erato: ahh... but wait! Aliasi Stonebender: and the RA, with the Guildmaster acting as head, can impeach as well, at leatst currentlky. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, item #2 is proposing new members... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since i really do not wish an "empty SC" any more. Aliasi Stonebender: yes, we worked on a nice list. Gwyneth Llewelyn nods Sudane Erato: great! Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think the first one to be nominated is Flyingroc Chung. Sudane Erato: yay! will he accept? Gwyneth Llewelyn: He has been quite actively defending N'burg Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Both in the forums and in meetings where I happen to be at well. Aliasi Stonebender: and he has at least ONE vote on the RA. ;) Gwyneth Llewelyn: He has given some insight on questions and suggested procedures and discussions Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just one? :D Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Aliasi Stonebender: heh, all I can guarantee is my own. Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'll see if he accepts ? I surely have suggested that to him. Gwyneth Llewelyn: IMing him now, if Aliasi doesn't oppose... Sudane Erato: My! Aliasi Stonebender: flying monkeys! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah and here he is! Sudane Erato: you're here for your nomination! Diderot Mirabeau: were you hiding somewhere in the loft? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Glad you're here, FR! Sudane Erato: yay! Flyingroc Chung: oh dear, give me two moments, I need to help a customer Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oops. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... we can always record his formal acceptance later :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now we have a few more nominees... Sudane Erato: and of cousre, he must be approved by the RA Sudane Erato: yes! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Flyingroc Chung: back Diderot Mirabeau: congratulations FR :-) Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Flyingroc Chung: Oh wow, it is an honor Aliasi Stonebender: well, have to keep those lazy RA members working, you know. Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe LOL Sudane Erato: hehe Sudane Erato: those doddering greybeards! Flyingroc Chung: do you really want a conservative on the bench? ;-) Sudane Erato: yes! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course, FR! Flyingroc Chung: sorry been reading about the alito thing Aliasi Stonebender: are you a literalist or an activist judge? ;) Sudane Erato: in a frontier society... conservatives atre necessary Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I have also two possible candidates. Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, more candidates. Gwyneth Llewelyn: One would be Claude, but he's currently a bit busy at the RA, so... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Probably he should only be invited after the term is over. Flyingroc Chung: I will try not to legislate from the bench. :-P Sudane Erato: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pendari would also be a possible candidate. Sudane Erato: yes! Sudane Erato: but she is also RA Flyingroc Chung: so, hm, gwyn you are now the leader of the SC? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, same problem. Sudane Erato: yes, she is Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol yes ? you just missed our ceremony, FR :) Sudane Erato: you missed her appointment :) Flyingroc Chung: oh darn Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, next on the list... Diderot Mirabeau: it seems like a few shoulders are pulling all the load Aliasi Stonebender: yeah, all the good candiates are busy. Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would like Dianne Mechanique to be a member of the SC as well... Sudane Erato: yay!!! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is the land page accurate? Aliasi Stonebender: yes, her big charts back when, while vaguely reminicent of Ross Perot's presidential bid, were indicative. Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, she's a N'burger again? Sudane Erato: no Sudane Erato: but yes, she is Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh. Ok :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I had also invited her Gwyneth Llewelyn: A long time ago, she was suggested to Ulrika Gwyneth Llewelyn: that was the very day Ulrika got angry at her. Gwyneth Llewelyn: :) Aliasi Stonebender: Heh. Flyingroc Chung: great timing, gwyn Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I sent a message to her again, a few days ago... Sudane Erato: oops!! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, "timing", that's me! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wow Sudane Erato: here she is!!! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Speaking of which! Dianne Mechanique: opps Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi there Dianne! Dianne Mechanique: where am i? Sudane Erato: in the Rathaus Gwyneth Llewelyn: Welcome to teh rathaus! Gwyneth Llewelyn: the Sudane Erato: being nominated to the SC Dianne Mechanique: chat lag Dianne Mechanique: erk Dianne Mechanique: wait for a chiar to res Gwyneth Llewelyn: ack ? that sucks :P Sudane Erato: :) Dianne Mechanique: i was at a big party Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Dianne... I was proposing your admission to the SC :) Dianne Mechanique: with too many textures Dianne Mechanique: wow Dianne Mechanique: :) Dianne Mechanique: cool i mean Dianne Mechanique: is this the star chamber? Sudane Erato: :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol you certainly deserve the honour :) Aliasi Stonebender: well, more like the general-purpose city hall. Dianne Mechanique: well thank you Dianne Mechanique: i am not so certain but thank you Gwyneth Llewelyn: "not so certain" ... right. Would you like to think a bit more about it? Dianne Mechanique: i see things now Aliasi Stonebender: Well, Dianne, you analyses back inthe day were persuasive. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or should be just present the case as "fait accompli" and refuse your right to be modest about it? ;) Dianne Mechanique: well i am okay with accepting Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yay! Dianne Mechanique: as long as its not necessarily for life Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL Dianne Mechanique: if i can quit later in a huff like Sudane Erato: lol Dianne Mechanique: :) Aliasi Stonebender: it's for life until you quit, or we impeach you. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, you'd be able to quit whenever you wish. Sudane Erato: of course its for life!!! Dianne Mechanique: hehe Sudane Erato: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: you're all too mean :D Dianne Mechanique: is ther ebranding involved? Dianne Mechanique: or oaths? Aliasi Stonebender: no, but you do have to drink an entire keg of Altenbrau. Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, but you can swear as much as you like ? this is a Mature sim ;) Dianne Mechanique: ah Dianne Mechanique: cool Sudane Erato: lol Dianne Mechanique: i mena fucking great Flyingroc Chung: apparently we have to eat a banana, which is fine with me Sudane Erato: haha Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's the spirit! Gwyneth Llewelyn: And wearing medieval uniforms is totally optional. Dianne Mechanique: well i am chinese today Dianne Mechanique: for chinese new year Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Happy New year! Flyingroc Chung: where's my red envelope? Sudane Erato: lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh. Dianne Mechanique: i suppose i should ask what the actual duties are though Diderot Mirabeau: oh FlyingRoc I took it .. I'm just lining it with L$ but you'll have it back in a sec :-P Gwyneth Llewelyn: "To protect and serve". Dianne Mechanique: can i wear a cop uniform? Dianne Mechanique: and strut about ? Gwyneth Llewelyn: "The Scientific Council (SC) is a self-selected meritocracy. Its governmental role is to interpret and enforce the constitution. Its service roll is to resolve citizen disputes and moderate user forums and events. " Flyingroc Chung: SC interprets the laws, and apparently also enforces it Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, basically, it's just doing what you have always done so well ? be very critical of the constitution Dianne Mechanique: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: but this time, you'd be doing so officially :) Dianne Mechanique: i was wondering on a more practical level the amount of time one needs to devote to things Dianne Mechanique: but that will be whatever it is Dianne Mechanique: i imagine Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh... I think you already devote time enough Aliasi Stonebender: In essence, the SC is the supreme court, but with a measure of executive power, yes. Flyingroc Chung: as far as I know very little has been brought to the sc? Gwyneth Llewelyn* nods @ Aliasi Dianne Mechanique: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, the SC only vetoed a bill once, if I remember correctly. Sudane Erato: sigh Gwyneth Llewelyn: And offered a hint here and there on points needing clarification. Sudane Erato: one of mine :) Aliasi Stonebender: yes, this meeting has, in fact, beenthelongest single amount of time I've devoted to the SC, not counting forum monitoring. Dianne Mechanique: yeah i remmber that Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, Sudane :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, Aliasi :D Dianne Mechanique: is this an SC meeting? Aliasi Stonebender: Yes. Dianne Mechanique: or an RA meeting? Aliasi Stonebender: SC Aliasi Stonebender: Gwyn and myself Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is ? the first and only SC meeting ever :) Dianne Mechanique: cool Sudane Erato: only? Gwyneth Llewelyn: But alas, like all meetings, open to all to attend. Dianne Mechanique: yes Aliasi Stonebender: and, hopefully, also you and FR in the near future, since I'll be off on the RA and unable to be an active member in the SC Diderot Mirabeau: (that's why I'm here) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, officially, yes, the SC neglected its duties to meet once a month. Dianne Mechanique: sure Dianne Mechanique: Is Gwyn the Dean now? Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol... yes Aliasi Stonebender: or, given the amount of time we only had one active member, it met it's duties without fail. Flyingroc Chung: so gwyn your SDF post at the RA goes to Eugene? Dianne Mechanique: it doesnt seem like it needs to be a large organisation Gwyneth Llewelyn: At least for a while. The first step is getting more members on the SC, and then we can elect a new Dean Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, FR Dianne Mechanique: oh Aliasi Stonebender: it doesn't, hence the nine-seat limit... but there's "not large" and then there's "tiny". Gwyneth Llewelyn nods @ Aliasi Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, we only need 9 Chairs Dianne Mechanique: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can have Professors beyond that. Aliasi Stonebender: ah. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Very likely... hmm... we'll appoint one of those to the Birka protectorate. Dianne Mechanique: probably three for a good voting minimum Gwyneth Llewelyn: We'll see. That is still in the future. Dianne Mechanique: ? Diderot Mirabeau: professor of vikingology? Dianne Mechanique: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl Sudane Erato: hehe Flyingroc Chung: sry phone Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Chairs should have interesting and totally incoherent titles :) Diderot Mirabeau: the more obtuse the better Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aliasi, I can grab a few ideas from Umberto Eco's project for his university... what was it called again? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah well ? anyway Dianne Mechanique: i cant rmember exactly Dianne Mechanique: can i be on th guild and teh SC at once? Sudane Erato: yes... but only vote on one Dianne Mechanique: ah Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, however, you can only vote/be elected to one Aliasi Stonebender: yes. you can actually be involved in all three branches, but you can only be "active" in one. Gwyneth Llewelyn nods Dianne Mechanique: cause i gave up my Nburg groups Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes Dianne Mechanique: i wouldnt mind the guild membership back Dianne Mechanique: nudges Sudane Sudane Erato: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh sure ? Kendra will definitely reappoint you! Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean Sudane Aliasi Stonebender: Sudane, you mean. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh Flyingroc Chung: lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: Did the Guild already vote on Sudane? ;) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tsk tsk. I haven't seen that meeting's transcript. Sudane Erato: yes Dianne Mechanique: tx Sudane Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, she won by a landslide, collecting 100% of eligible votes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Irregularities, only irregularities. Flyingroc Chung: hahah Gwyneth Llewelyn makes notes Sudane Erato: the Guild had a similiar situation Gwyneth Llewelyn: I know, hehe Sudane Erato: only one voting member Dianne Mechanique: wow Sudane Erato: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes ? kendra I guess :) Sudane Erato: yes... exactly Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I have also something to ask Sudane... Sudane Erato: ok Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'd like to have Frank Lardner as a citizen. Sudane Erato: yes! Gwyneth Llewelyn: And possibly extend an invitation to him on the SC as well. Flyingroc Chung: me too Sudane Erato: sure! Dianne Mechanique: i thought he bought in already Sudane Erato: no :( Gwyneth Llewelyn: He's probably the person outside N'burg that has studied N'burg most. Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, not yet. Sudane Erato: yes Sudane Erato: but.. the question? Diderot Mirabeau: but what does it entail Gwyn that you ask Sudane to have Frank Lardner as a citizen? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, let's all try to get him in :) Sudane Erato: oh! Sudane Erato: sure! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah lol ? Diderot, Sudane always knows the current list of citizens! Aliasi Stonebender: tell him we have punch and pie. Dianne Mechanique: he was going to buy my land when i left for a bit Dianne Mechanique: but he never got back to me Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I've heard that rumour as well, Dianne... Sudane Erato: you mean... I have to be nice to him in the forums? :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's why I asked Gwyneth Llewelyn: and noooo Sudane, be mean as you wish :) Sudane Erato: whew! Sudane Erato: btw... Sudane Erato: just for information Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, Diderot, you were on my list of nominees as well :) Sudane Erato: I spoke with BladeDance Pendragon the other day Diderot Mirabeau: for citizenship? :-P Sudane Erato: and he has agreed to become a member... Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, you're already a citizen, Diderot ? that I know Gwyneth Llewelyn: And hooray on BladeDancer! Sudane Erato: on a somewhat limited activity basis Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, "limited activity" is fine. Diderot Mirabeau: I'm fine to settle in a bit to begin with Sudane Erato: he promises to pay his bills... and vote Gwyneth Llewelyn: At the very least, he could help out on the Guild rebuilding the Church :) Sudane Erato: yes! Sudane Erato: thats why jhe was here Sudane Erato: to check on it Dianne Mechanique: why is that name familiar? Gwyneth Llewelyn: We'd pay him slave wages... erm... well, that's for the Guold to decide ;) Dianne Mechanique: did he buld it in the first palce? Sudane Erato: so I have his email... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes! Dianne Mechanique: ah Sudane Erato: yes Dianne Mechanique: thought so Diderot Mirabeau: yes his name is all over the prims Dianne Mechanique: right Gwyneth Llewelyn: he is very nice. Gwyneth Llewelyn: As is his wife. Sudane Erato: very... Dianne Mechanique: well i love the church Sudane Erato: and... amazing!! Sudane Erato: older than me! Gwyneth Llewelyn: So do I, Dianne! Dianne Mechanique: but it could use a prim paring for sure Aliasi Stonebender: well, I'm sure the church was an early work Gwyneth Llewelyn: He is, Sudane? wow Dianne Mechanique: yes Aliasi Stonebender: so as Kendra says... you can renovate it without destroying it. Dianne Mechanique: yes Sudane Erato: yes Aliasi Stonebender: heck, just re-uploading the textures as 256x256 would help. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I'll be checking on that... hehe _____________________
Gwyneth Llewelyn Winking Loudmouth Join date: 31 Jul 2004 Posts: 1,336	02-04-2006 09:55 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, i think so as well. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... Dianne Mechanique: did anyone ever find out if Ulrika changed her textures onthe fatchwerks? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Any more nominations? Dianne Mechanique: she said once they wre all 1024's Gwyneth Llewelyn: !!! Diderot Mirabeau: you can call for order Gwyn ... Diderot Mirabeau: just pound the hammer Dianne Mechanique: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh oh... power is fluctuating around my place... I have an UPS, but if everything goes poof, you know what happened to me.... Diderot Mirabeau: it must be the snowstorm Dianne Mechanique: live in the woods? Dianne Mechanique: :)) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I wished to know if someone would, at this point, add some more nominations... Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, Dianne ? lol, I just told earlier that today was the first time it snowed in Lisbon since 1957. The country is a mess, lol Dianne Mechanique: rigght :) Dianne Mechanique: forgot you were in Lisbon Aliasi Stonebender: I don't have any nominations myself, at this time. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, near Lisbon ? no snow here. Dianne Mechanique: me either Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we have two new members to present to the RA for approval. Gwyneth Llewelyn: And eventually a third one, if Frank ever joins Sudane Erato: yes! Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I'll leave Diderot on the list ? your posts have been very to the pint Gwyneth Llewelyn: point Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL Gwyneth Llewelyn: that was a terrible slip of the tongue!! Sudane Erato: lol Diderot Mirabeau: hehe Dianne Mechanique: Dianne looks at giant beer on the table Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, item #3 Aliasi Stonebender: yes... my main argument when me an Gwyn talked was the same you used, Diderot... I'd prefer any SC member have been a citizen for a little while, get the feel of the place. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Forum moderation. Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's it, Aliasi. Gwyneth Llewelyn: We'll be keeping an eye on you, Diderot :) Diderot Mirabeau: I agree Aliasi :-) Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, forum modding Diderot Mirabeau* considers if he should get rid of all that stuff in the basement Sudane Erato: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, the forums are constitutionally a responsability of the SC. Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Diderot :D Dianne Mechanique: moding? Dianne Mechanique: or participating? Flyingroc Chung: moderation Gwyneth Llewelyn: moderating. Dianne Mechanique: does it work as well as the new res-mod system? :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: there are 4 forum moderators at the moment Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah no Dianne. Our system really works Dianne Mechanique: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: LL's one is, well, wishful thinking ;) But I wish them success. Dianne Mechanique: yes Dianne Mechanique: i thought for sure it was a good idea Dianne Mechanique: but it seems to have fallen apart at the seams Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, not wishing to gloat for N'burg again, I think that the problem will be to moderate the moderators. Gwyneth Llewelyn: In our case, well, the moderators are subject to N'burg law... Flyingroc Chung: I agree Aliasi Stonebender: yes, our current moderators are Ulrika, myself, Gwyn, and Kendra. Technically, all members of the SC are to be mods, but we have to bug Jeska every time we change that. Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we should, Aliasi. Dianne Mechanique: yes Aliasi Stonebender: oh, yes, now we should Gwyneth Llewelyn: Definitely, yes. Aliasi Stonebender: but I was explaining why KENDRA was a mod. Sudane Erato: good Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wouldn't mind having Kendra as moderator, of course. Gwyneth Llewelyn: But then she would need to become a SC member as well :D Aliasi Stonebender: well, technically the SC might be able to delegate it like the Treasurer in the Guild, but no need to go there if we don't have to. Flyingroc Chung: Didnt Ulrika smooth that over by saying kendra is there only in the capacity of an observer? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Heh. Right. Sudane Erato: i honestly don't think that kendra cares to be moderator Sudane Erato: its not really on her interest list Aliasi Stonebender: Neither do I, and since we'll have to make a batch of changes, it wouldn't hurt to tuck that in. Sudane Erato: nor is it on mine :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'll be glad to talk to her, of corse Gwyneth Llewelyn: course Dianne Mechanique: i cant see that there is a heck of a lot of moderation needed is there? Sudane Erato: sure :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: and we need the RA to approve the new members anyway Sudane Erato: haha Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah Dianne Sudane Erato: not any more :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's the +principle that counts! Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol Sudane ? that was mean ;) Sudane Erato: yes Dianne Mechanique: well agreed :) Sudane Erato: sorry Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, I'd also like to ask a volunteer Gwyneth Llewelyn: to suggest some rough guidelines Gwyneth Llewelyn: for both the postings Gwyneth Llewelyn: as well as the moderation guidelines Gwyneth Llewelyn: and we could approve them here at the SC Gwyneth Llewelyn: and then send the new moderator list to Jeska. Diderot Mirabeau: for inspiration you can check out that "Posting and you" video which I have a link to ;-) Flyingroc Chung: lol Diderot Aliasi Stonebender: yeah, there's only been a handful of moderator actions. Aliasi Stonebender: some of them I even agreed with. Dianne Mechanique: well i nominate Aliasi as a volunteer :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol yes, Diderot Gwyneth Llewelyn: and LOL Dianne! Dianne Mechanique: i would volunteer Aliasi Stonebender: what is this, the army? takes giant step back Dianne Mechanique: but my tastes are for no moderations at all Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm agreeable, if Aliasi agrees, of course. Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol Dianne Mechanique: and i dont want to enforce my personal opinoins onthe process Aliasi Stonebender: No, seriously, I could Aliasi Stonebender: at least draft guidelines Dianne Mechanique: i will go along with whteer rules are evolved Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks for "volunteerinG" Aliasi :) Sudane Erato: :) Diderot Mirabeau: I guess we would want to foster as beneficial a climate for constructive debate as possible in the forums Aliasi Stonebender: Well, just informally, I basically feel the main thrust of the moderation should be, basically, to preserve the Nburg forum for the use of Nburgers. Dianne Mechanique: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: I also agree with Dianne ? we just need a "bare bones" guideline Dianne Mechanique: oh yes Aliasi! hadnt thought of that aspect Dianne Mechanique: i am all for that Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm yes, while not disallowing others to participate constructively. Aliasi Stonebender: hence, I agreed somewhat with the moderations to Kevn Kline's posts - he isn't a citizen, and his posts were disruptive... although Ulrika was kind of egging him on. Gwyneth Llewelyn: others = non-citizens Dianne Mechanique: yes Diderot Mirabeau: perhaps it would make sense with a "mission statement" for the forums ... in accordance with which the moderation would be performed Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, same here, Aliasi. Aliasi Stonebender: but citizens should be able to say whatever they please, saving perhaps excessive personal attacks. Dianne Mechanique: occaisional trolls though Dianne Mechanique: like to keep them out Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that's what I think that we should have, Diderot. Diderot Mirabeau: ideally the mission statement should be formulated in such a way as to encourage the "socially oriented postings" of N'burg citizens Gwyneth Llewelyn: "Excessive personal attacks" will be flagged for SC arbitration by citizens (ie. the defendant may file a suit :) ) Diderot Mirabeau: in order to "reinforce the glue that keeps us together" Diderot Mirabeau: and only prevent excessive personal attacks Dianne Mechanique: hehe Sudane Erato: wow Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe, "glue".... more like sticky chewing-gum :) Dianne Mechanique: i think diderot has writtenthis kind of copy before :) Diderot Mirabeau: whereas with non-Nburg residents they would need to be more to the point at adressing specific issues Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, I think so myself, Dianne :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Feel free to work it over with Aliasi on this, Diderot ;) Diderot Mirabeau: if you don't mind I'd be happy to contribute some ideas Aliasi? :-) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mind you, there should be a short line at the end of the "guidelines" Aliasi Stonebender: sure. you can email me or private message me on the forums Gwyneth Llewelyn: Explaining that all "moderators" are members of the SC and thus subject to N'burg law Aliasi Stonebender: or IM me inworld Diderot Mirabeau: ok will do Diderot Mirabeau: accountability in other words Gwyneth Llewelyn: if people wish to complain against "excessive moderation", they have a way to do that! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, accountability. Dianne Mechanique: yes Dianne Mechanique: sounds like we al agree basically Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yay. Cool :) Diderot Mirabeau: and would that also apply to non-Nburg residents? well I guess it's part of the job to find out about that Gwyneth Llewelyn: Item #4 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, that is going to be an issue, yes, Diderot. Diderot Mirabeau: we'll look into it and propose a solution Flyingroc Chung: non nburg residents wont have recourse ot the law... Diderot Mirabeau: unless you have any ideas ready Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's a major drawback, yes, FR Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure ? the idea is: join N'burg, and then file a suit against a moderator :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Diderot Mirabeau: hehe Flyingroc Chung: which is incentive for posters to become citizens. Diderot Mirabeau: we need as many incentives to move in as possible :-) Gwyneth Llewelyn: My, we do agree on things! Dianne Mechanique: hehe Diderot Mirabeau: ok I have no further comments to #3 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, item #4 is just about the meetings Gwyneth Llewelyn: the Constitution stipulates "one meeting per month" Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since we had officially just 2 members Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aliasi and I easily agreed upon a time :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: The place of meeting... well, if the RA is not in session, we can use this for now. Dianne Mechanique: well i am on game time Gwyneth Llewelyn: As for day/time/more than one meeting per month Dianne Mechanique: so no weekdays during the day Dianne Mechanique: for me Gwyneth Llewelyn: that's up to you all :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, no weekdays. Dianne Mechanique: well Dianne Mechanique: i can be here every second monday Dianne Mechanique: during the day Dianne Mechanique: if that helps Gwyneth Llewelyn: What sayeth thou all? Sudane Erato: sorry Flyingroc Chung: my schedule is all wacky Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... perhaps I could start asking: what would be best, weekdays or workdays? Aliasi Stonebender: You know my schedule, Gwyn., Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes, Aliasi :D Flyingroc Chung: how about weekends? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sunday 1 PM? ;) Dianne Mechanique: could do Gwyneth Llewelyn: later? Earlier? Dianne Mechanique: i an be here as late as midnight Dianne Mechanique: on almost any day also Flyingroc Chung: once a month? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait ? earlier is impossible for Aliasi. Flyingroc Chung: later on sundays is better for me Aliasi Stonebender: yes, 1 pm is the very earliest I can come. Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, from 1:30 PM onwards. I can sadly be online only until 5 PM or so Dianne Mechanique: sunday evening? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well ? if that could be 4 PM Gwyneth Llewelyn: I could barely make it. Gwyneth Llewelyn: :D Diderot Mirabeau: later would make it a bit difficult for anyone in CET to concentrate properly ... although of course members' schedules should be of priority Dianne Mechanique: CET? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... I do have usually an event at 3 PM Dianne Mechanique: oh Dianne Mechanique: got it Gwyneth Llewelyn: Central European Time Dianne Mechanique: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: :D Dianne Mechanique: i am online as early as 6:00 or 7:00 am Gwyneth Llewelyn: I guess that I could skip that event anyway Gwyneth Llewelyn: ouch Dianne! LOL Gwyneth Llewelyn: But Aliasi can't make it before 1:30 PM Sudane Erato: oooohh :( Dianne Mechanique: sounding pathetic i know :) Dianne Mechanique: well sometimes Garnet is stillup Dianne Mechanique: in the UK Gwyneth Llewelyn nods hehe Dianne Mechanique: at that time Aliasi Stonebender: well, I can make it at 1 pm Aliasi Stonebender: it's just today, I wasn't sure Gwyneth Llewelyn: btw... is Garnet still with us, oh Treasurer? Sudane Erato: yes! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm. Sudane Erato: she has re-joined! Diderot Mirabeau: great! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should we extend the invitation to the Sc to her as well? Dianne Mechanique: well i meant that as an example Dianne Mechanique: of time coordination only Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, I just remembered... because she was on a very early list I submitted to Ulrika. Diderot Mirabeau: well technically the item has already been closed ... but you're the chair of course :-) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Again, Ulrika got angry with her on the same day... ack... I know, I'm terrible with "timings" Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah lol sure :) Sudane Erato: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we can always discuss it next time Dianne Mechanique: she's teh supreme Dean thingie Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I haven't talked to Garnet about it yet. Diderot Mirabeau: ah yes that was the title .. Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, once and for all... :D Sudane Erato: Her Honorable Ms. Dean Thingie :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let's make it on 3 PM SL time. Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, ROFL Diderot Mirabeau: that would be midnight CET then .. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's only once per month Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I guess most meetings won't have so many items anyway! Flyingroc Chung: sorry, not very repsonsive here, you guys caught me at a bad time... will clear my sched next time we meet Gwyneth Llewelyn: We'll surely have "special emergency meetings" if the need arises. Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe no problem, FR! Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's settled then :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Next meeting will be on the last Sunday of February, I have no agenda ready.... wait... Gwyneth Llewelyn: the 26th? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hopefully I don't forget it! hehe Diderot Mirabeau: nor fall asleep ahead of the meeting ;-) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, next item... #5 Sudane Erato: and the nominees must be presented next wed at the RA Dianne Mechanique: zzzz Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol, I'll try to be awake! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Item #5, the constitutional revision. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, this is a job for the RA. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which is going to start pretty soon. Gwyneth Llewelyn: but we have some responsabilities here. Gwyneth Llewelyn: How should we "interfere"? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should we encourage a discussion on the forums, or on the Wiki? Aliasi Stonebender: well, you know I started one on the forums Gwyneth Llewelyn nods you did, yes Aliasi Stonebender: but having a "sandbox constitution" page on the Wiki wouldn't be a bad idea Dianne Mechanique: yes that sounds good Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, sounds reasonable. Aliasi Stonebender: have people submit possible revisions until a certain date Flyingroc Chung: I agree Aliasi Stonebender: and then wqe take all the proposals and make some sense of them Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well... theoretically, it's up to the RA to do most of that job... Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... we can provide the tools Flyingroc Chung: "we" as in the RA, or will there be some sort of constitutional convention? Gwyneth Llewelyn: The constitutional convention is the job of the RA. Gwyneth Llewelyn: They might ask the SC for assistance ? or not. Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's up to them. Gwyneth Llewelyn: of course, we can drop "hints".... :) Dianne Mechanique: but the final approval is up to the SC no? Dianne Mechanique: on constitutional matters? Aliasi Stonebender: no. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me re-check, Dianne... Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I think, no Aliasi Stonebender: the SC interprets it Dianne Mechanique: oh Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed. Diderot Mirabeau: I think it is only the job of the SC to interpret the constitution as ratified by the RA Dianne Mechanique: i thought that was a key element Aliasi Stonebender: but the RA writes it Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think Aliasi is right... Dianne Mechanique: that the SC ruled on constitutinoality Dianne Mechanique: of laws Dianne Mechanique: and therefore shoudl be the same Aliasi Stonebender: that said, the SC being full of smart people and all that Diderot Mirabeau: all laws but the constitution Aliasi Stonebender: I'm sure all SC members will have something to say, if only as individual citizens. Gwyneth Llewelyn: "The Philosophic branch may veto or rewrite and resubmit a bill or constitutional amendment if it is in violation of any of the founding documents." Diderot Mirabeau: ah Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm. Diderot Mirabeau: my mistake sorry Dianne Mechanique: the constituion being one though Sudane Erato: that is looping logic Dianne Mechanique: i'd have to check the documetns myuself Diderot Mirabeau: it is certainly quite conservative Dianne Mechanique: well if we rule on constituionality Flyingroc Chung: yeah, the constitution is a founding document Dianne Mechanique: its a bit of a loophole Sudane Erato: exactly Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol yes. Diderot Mirabeau: I'd consider it a safeguard Dianne Mechanique: to not be allowed to rule on the contituion istselff? Gwyneth Llewelyn: That one needs to be rewritten... Dianne Mechanique: maybe Flyingroc Chung: which is why the constitution needs to be revised Gwyneth Llewelyn: This means that for the NEXT constitutional revision... Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... we might need to approve it... Gwyneth Llewelyn: but on forthcoming revisions, if the RA changes that bit... Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... we might have no saying in it. Flyingroc Chung: shouldnt it undergo a ratification processs byall citizens? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah no, FR. Gwyneth Llewelyn: N'burg is a representative democracy, not a base democracy. Flyingroc Chung: well I guess that's subject towhatever's written in the next consti Flyingroc Chung: well I guess that's subject towhatever's written in the next consti Flyingroc Chung: hm Dianne Mechanique: well i was imagining a role where we would not approve it if it was obviously logical gobbldygook taht made a mockery of the existing documents or whatevver Dianne Mechanique: not likely to occur really Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes indeed, Dianne. Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that the idea was... like on the bills... Gwyneth Llewelyn: we cannot propose changes or nills Gwyneth Llewelyn: bills Dianne Mechanique: yes Dianne Mechanique: well i am sure the RA will come up with good stuff anyway Gwyneth Llewelyn: but we can say "ok, that's reasonable; or no, you need to rewrite it" Gwyneth Llewelyn: So do I. Gwyneth Llewelyn*: Right. _____________________
Gwyneth Llewelyn Winking Loudmouth Join date: 31 Jul 2004 Posts: 1,336	02-04-2006 09:56 Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have just found a problem with our "monthly meetings" ? LOL Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, item 5 A. Gwyneth Llewelyn: :D Sudane Erato: :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: I knew that the SC was neglecting almost all duties.... pfft shame on us. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, one duty we have almost always "neglected" Gwyneth Llewelyn: was approving the RA's bills. Gwyneth Llewelyn: While the SC was just ulrika Gwyneth Llewelyn: she sometimes put a "stamp of approval" on the bills. Dianne Mechanique: do we then have to meet more often than once a month? Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, technically, we should do a simple majority vote Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, I found a nice loophole :) Dianne Mechanique: or can we just IM each other? Flyingroc Chung: would you guys be open to the idea of a listserv? Sudane Erato: or you could group "vote" Aliasi Stonebender: well, the RA has procedures to allow votes via email within a 7-day period, does it not? Flyingroc Chung: or a hm, "yahoo group" Sudane Erato: yes Aliasi Stonebender: surely we can extend the same to SC proceedings where no debate is needed Dianne Mechanique: there is a loophole i think where technically it doesnt say that SC meetings have to be reocrded Aliasi Stonebender: such as approving laws - that's a yes/no. Gwyneth Llewelyn: The constitution only says: "Chairs of the SC will ratify bills passed by the Representative Assembly by simple majority vote and may resubmit the bill with modifications for vote." Dianne Mechanique: only votes of non-confidence Dianne Mechanique: yes Dianne Mechanique: majority vote Sudane Erato: "Chairs" Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: As a Dean now... Sudane Erato: means. cahirperson, no? Sudane Erato: chairperson Gwyneth Llewelyn: I formally nominate Aliasi, FR, and Dianne as Chairs now. Gwyneth Llewelyn: No Dianne Mechanique: your the only chair? Dianne Mechanique: ah Gwyneth Llewelyn: No! Gwyneth Llewelyn: The SC has two tiers. Sudane Erato: hehe Flyingroc Chung: Dean then Cahir then professor Gwyneth Llewelyn: Chairs and professors. Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, well, the Dean is a Chair as well Diderot Mirabeau: who's this Cahir guy anyway :-P Dianne Mechanique: hehe Sudane Erato: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: A Chair is an expert on a field :) Dianne Mechanique: sounds arabian Sudane Erato: celtic Dianne Mechanique: :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Diderot Mirabeau: a professor of gaelic arabology maybe Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, ok, order order please :) Diderot Mirabeau: sorry Dianne Mechanique: a Moor! Sudane Erato: shhhh Gwyneth Llewelyn fines the next person that is out of order Gwyneth Llewelyn: (just read that I'm allowed to do that in the constitution!= Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, no questions about the Chairs? Gwyneth Llewelyn: All members of the SC are professors Gwyneth Llewelyn: some of them are nominated by the Dean to serve as Chairs. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Up to nine. Flyingroc Chung: so this is a subset relationship? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, FR. All are professors, up to nine are chairs, one is dean :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: As to the procedures... Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree on the one suggested with a list server Gwyneth Llewelyn: or rather Gwyneth Llewelyn: just emailing all of us together Gwyneth Llewelyn: if we can't agree on simple majority Gwyneth Llewelyn: we'll have an "extraordinary meeting" Dianne Mechanique: are you saying that one of us could be nominated as chair to the RA with the duty of ruberstamping? Flyingroc Chung: why not register a "yahoo group"? That way there could be a record of discussions Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes! LOL Gwyneth Llewelyn: Dianne, the SC is not democratic ;) Dianne Mechanique: well no Dianne Mechanique: i know Diderot Mirabeau: but Gwyn is a simple majority sufficient to determine a bill's constitutionality ... could situations not arise where the weight of the argument could be decisive in overturning some member's opinions? Dianne Mechanique: makes sense and solves our problem Gwyneth Llewelyn: So yes, nothing in the Constitution forbids us to appoint exactly that suggestion :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Diderot, well, you might be right Flyingroc Chung: that happens in RL as well Dianne Mechanique: perhaps like the supreme court we could be allowed to publlicise a "dissenting opinion" Gwyneth Llewelyn: but since the Constitution explicitly stestes that procedural bit Gwyneth Llewelyn: states Gwyneth Llewelyn: We won't change it :) Dianne Mechanique: if a couple of us strongly disagreed Dianne Mechanique: but it passed anyway like Diderot Mirabeau: good pint Diderot Mirabeau: point Dianne Mechanique: another pint? Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Diderot Mirabeau: thanks Dianne :-) Diderot Mirabeau shuts up Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Sudane Erato: :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, it was a good question, actually Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I don't think we need to be "unanimous" on all RA bills Aliasi Stonebender: I think that's a good idea, anyway, the "dissenting opinion". Gwyneth Llewelyn nods Dianne Mechanique: i think we mostly will be Dianne Mechanique: and mostly thedissent will e minimal Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so anyone publishing dissenting opinions will be shot on sight.... Gwyneth Llewelyn: :D Dianne Mechanique: but it might be good to put that in there Flyingroc Chung: heh Gwyneth Llewelyn: :) Dianne Mechanique: for future generations like :)) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I think that most of us should have complete freedom to express their dissenting opinion publicly. Gwyneth Llewelyn: The votes, mind you Gwyneth Llewelyn: are public Aliasi Stonebender makes note to wear Kevlar to all SC meetings Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Aliasi!!! Sudane Erato: hehe Dianne Mechanique: yes Dianne Mechanique: its hard to know how far to go Dianne Mechanique: with formalising these processes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, that's why I think they never got so formalised. Dianne Mechanique: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I think we should at least keep it to the letter of the constitution. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since we're meeting today anyway... Gwyneth Llewelyn: We could look at the RA's bills from last Wednesday Gwyneth Llewelyn: And see if we can agree on all of them :) Flyingroc Chung: I suggest that since this is gonna be the first time the SC isnt gonna be tiny Flyingroc Chung: .... Flyingroc Chung: that we let "tradition" happen, then formalize that Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe ok Dianne Mechanique: makes sense Dianne Mechanique: evolve working relationships first? Flyingroc Chung: something like that Flyingroc Chung: I mean a lot of these will be threshed out Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, but there is a minimum that we need to start with. Flyingroc Chung: yes, gwyn Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can just send each other emails Gwyneth Llewelyn: On last wedneday's bills Gwyneth Llewelyn: and see if anyone disagrees with them :) Flyingroc Chung: that's a good start, you know my email, gwyn Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, and Aliasi's as well. Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think I'm just missing Dianne's! Dianne Mechanique: well Dianne Mechanique: i kind of have to go right now Aliasi Stonebender: I don't think there were any I rejected. Dianne Mechanique: will it take long? Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, the last item, #6, is philosophic :) Diderot Mirabeau: this email process presumably will not impede on the ideal of transparency in the SC's dealings? Dianne Mechanique: the bills i mean Gwyneth Llewelyn: And not for us to reach any conclusions! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since you're pressed for time, Dianne, we'll do that my email. Gwyneth Llewelyn: by Flyingroc Chung: SC is supposed to be chadowy and secretive Dianne Mechanique: okay Dianne Mechanique: hehe Sudane Erato: hehe Dianne Mechanique: i can stay for a bit Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe FR :) Dianne Mechanique: but i thought we wer about to go off on a long bill reading Dianne Mechanique: i have to wlak the dog Dianne Mechanique: before it gets dark Dianne Mechanique: and some other stuff Diderot Mirabeau: wag the dog? :-P Dianne Mechanique: walk :)) Diderot Mirabeau: that should be good training for sitting in the SC :-P Dianne Mechanique: yes its what the SC is all about Dianne Mechanique: media control Diderot Mirabeau: "the tail that wags the dog" Sudane Erato: :) Dianne Mechanique: Gwyn's getting mad Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well hmm Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see that the transcript is not online yet... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nooo not me. Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was just watching the forums Dianne Mechanique: ah Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just to see the bills that were approved. Gwyneth Llewelyn: I just see the next* bills that are going on a vote next Wednesday! Dianne Mechanique: well as an unaproved member in waiting Sudane Erato: I don't think any were approved last Wed Dianne Mechanique: i cannot vote or pass udegemnt anyway Gwyneth Llewelyn: True, lol Dianne Mechanique: so its not necessary Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good point. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let's stick to the emails as procedure Gwyneth Llewelyn: And wait for Claude posting the approved bills Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mind you, we need to get Claude to approve your membership in the SC ? that's crucial :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so the last item . Gwyneth Llewelyn: As said, it's about philosophy, not bills :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which is thinking (or rather re-thinking) "citizenship". Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have now a triple task... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Neualtenburg is feudal: you own land, you're a citizen. Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's a stage of civilization :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now three things are happening... Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) Some people will still hold land, and will thus continue to be citizens (obviously) Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) The RA is approving rentals, and wishing rentees to have the same status as citizens. Flyingroc Chung: Under the constitution, you are eligible for citizenship as long as you swear to abide by the constitution, and referred by two other citizens? Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3) We're going to have a "protectorate", which is not land inside this sim Sudane Erato: yes, the constitution pre-dates the sim Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, FR. Dianne Mechanique: the protectorate opens a big can of worms :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, next stage of civilization: citizenship as "belonging to a nation, recognizing a State, and its legal system". Sudane Erato: and Gwyn, on Number 2, the RA is considering rentals.. Sudane Erato: not "approving" them Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, lol ? sorry! Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have been thinking a bit about this... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since for long I wished to have a tourist/immigrant status as well Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. people that visit N'burg, while not citizens, have "rights and duties" as well. Gwyneth Llewelyn: This was dropped... because it was not "urgent" Gwyneth Llewelyn: People that visit often tend to become citizens :D Gwyneth Llewelyn: But with new models of "citizenship" coming up (beyond "owning a deed of land") Gwyneth Llewelyn: we need to review that concept. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since it's not defined constitutionally... Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's up to us to a) define it ourselves; b) promote the debate at the RA level to add it at least on the preamble to the constitution. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, it means changing the N'burg ToS a bit. Gwyneth Llewelyn: One of the "founding documents" :D Dianne Mechanique: i would like tochange some bits of that :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed! Flyingroc Chung: Hm... since the constitution only eligibility, but not the actual process of accepting a person for citizenship... Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'd be glad if you took it up, Dianne... and presented a revised N'burg ToS for discussion Dianne Mechanique: well i can start Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yay! Dianne Mechanique: open up some points for discussion etc. Sudane Erato: :) Diderot Mirabeau: great Dianne Mechanique: just that some of it seems contradictory perhaps Gwyneth Llewelyn: It does. Flyingroc Chung: I would expect that any model for inclusion as a citizen would at least be consitutional from the get go Gwyneth Llewelyn: And FR is right, the constitutional is deliberately vague. Dianne Mechanique: in some countries Gwyneth Llewelyn: constitution Dianne Mechanique: at least in sub national elections Dianne Mechanique: you dont have to be a citizen to vote only a "resident" Dianne Mechanique: we should define both terms Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes! Dianne Mechanique: depends whether we see ourselves as a country Dianne Mechanique: or a state Dianne Mechanique: i guess? Dianne Mechanique: lots to think about anyway Gwyneth Llewelyn: More like a city, but since we're getting "protectorates".... hehe Dianne Mechanique: yes Dianne Mechanique: cnat get my mind around it at the moment :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe well Gwyneth Llewelyn: As said, it's mostly philosophic at this point. Diderot Mirabeau: I don't know if this is the right forum to raise the question .. I am just wondering .. if one lives as a tenant in a rented flat .. would that be sufficient merit for one to qualify for full citizenship with a right to vote and so on? Gwyneth Llewelyn: But nevertheless "important". Diderot Mirabeau: or the appropriate moment Flyingroc Chung: I think tis discussion wuold be important more as a frame of reference for the next constitution. Gwyneth Llewelyn: It is appropriate, yes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, I agree as well, FR ? that's why I would prefer to have it first* Diderot Mirabeau: I mean what would one contribute back to the community Gwyneth Llewelyn: and have the RA put the finishing touches in law. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, well, Diderot, "money" :) Sudane Erato: hehe... Diderot... taxes :) Diderot Mirabeau: because surely the emphasis in a definition of citizenship should be on the merits of one's contribution to the community to a certain, minimal extent? Gwyneth Llewelyn: right Sudane :D Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh no, Diderot. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right now, "contribution to community" is not required Gwyneth Llewelyn: The vote is not based on "merit" Gwyneth Llewelyn: Except on the SC, of course :D Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Dianne Mechanique: land ownership is the basi s right now? Gwyneth Llewelyn: What I mean is, a "full citizen" is free to contribute as little or as much as they wish. Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Dianne. Flyingroc Chung: Technically, under the current constitution, it does not really require that you hold land to be a citizen... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed, FR ? it's only a "tradition". Diderot Mirabeau: land ownership could theoretically be argued to be a kind of contribution to the community by way of the monthly payments and by virtue of contributing to the liquidity of the real estate market of Neualtenburg Dianne Mechanique: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or rather, I think the RA wrote something on that, so it might be a bit more than "tradition" at this point. Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Diderot ? the same applies to "rentals". Dianne Mechanique: thats kind of the basis of feudalism as i understand it Gwyneth Llewelyn: Precisely, Dianne! Dianne Mechanique: except we dont have a "serf" class Flyingroc Chung: "not represntation without taxation," eh? Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's an easy model, feudalism... Dianne Mechanique: unless that is our "tourist" class? :)) Diderot Mirabeau: hmm Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe right! Dianne Mechanique: i think i should go Dianne Mechanique: if thats the last agenda item Dianne Mechanique: and if its okay for me to miss the end bits Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes :) That's the end. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks for attending :) Diderot Mirabeau: goodbye Dianne :-) Dianne Mechanique: thank you The meeting closed at 15:26 Linden time. _____________________
Frank Lardner Cultural Explorer Join date: 30 Sep 2005 Posts: 409	I smell pie. 02-04-2006 10:29 From: Gwyneth Llewelyn Aliasi Stonebender: tell him we have punch and pie. I smell pie. _____________________ Frank Lardner * Join the "Law Society of Second Life" -- dedicated to the objective study and discussion of SL ways of governance, contracting and dispute resolution. * Group Forum at: this link.
Kazuhiko Shirakawa Registered User Join date: 12 Jan 2006 Posts: 58	02-04-2006 11:18 From: Gwyneth Llewelyn Sorry for the delay in posting this. Ulrika's web site has been down, so I haven't been able to use her colourizer script, and I had to create my own Thanks for posting this!
Diderot Mirabeau Neversleeper Join date: 18 Jan 2006 Posts: 76	Just a silly suggestion.. 02-07-2006 03:19 This transcript has excellent readability and clarity thanks to the useful PHP script you posted in another forum. I have only one little suggestion: I'm not particularly keen on having my statements reproduced in a brown (or dark olive green) colour and having people associate my name with something so muddy so I took a peek at the script to see how colour is determined. Apparently it is allocated in a sequential fashion with the person speaking first being allocated the first colour and so on. The next colour in line is pink which really isn't my cup of tea either. Couldn't we move some of the more 'normal' colours to the beginning of the array? Or else I guess the next time I'll just have to frantically scramble into the debate to try to get the first comment in to the discussion in order that I may get a colour for my lines with which I don't mind people associating my name.
Gwyneth Llewelyn Winking Loudmouth Join date: 31 Jul 2004 Posts: 1,336	02-07-2006 04:25 Suggestion accepted... actually, this precise transcript was done with an "early version" of the script, where I more or the less used colours randomly (sorry for that). The "current version", ie. the one you can get from this post, already uses a new set of colours — I've stuck with the ones that are predefined on the boxes here for vBulletin instead of inventing them afresh. Thanks for the feedback, Diderot As said, I'm not so good at this, so perhaps someone could devise a better system to allocate colours... theoretically, there would be a possibility to allocate colours to an avatar's key permanently, store it on a database, and make sure people always get the same colour allocated... it would be possible, again, I've got a copy of Ulrika's database as well, but she only has about 1/3 of all avatars' keys, so this would have to be an opt-in service.. ah well... things get complicated fast _____________________
Kendra Bancroft Rhine Maiden Join date: 17 Jun 2004 Posts: 5,813	02-07-2006 04:30 I'd like to point out to the SC that I do have a copy of the election results for RA from last election. (Ulrika fowarded it to me before she left) If such a thing is useful for setting up the now vacant RA seat --lemme know. _____________________ The Neualtenburg Projekt PHASE III Port Neualtenburg Visit my new Blog: The Steel Kitten Roars.
Diderot Mirabeau Neversleeper Join date: 18 Jan 2006 Posts: 76	02-07-2006 06:01 From: Gwyneth Llewelyn Thanks for the feedback, Diderot As said, I'm not so good at this, so perhaps someone could devise a better system to allocate colours... theoretically, there would be a possibility to allocate colours to an avatar's key permanently, store it on a database, and make sure people always get the same colour allocated... Oh I wouldn't worry too much about the issue, Gwyn. My original post was made somewhat tongue in cheek, and despite the particular colour being somewhat muddy I must admit it did have excellent readability in relation to the contrast between it and the background. Storing the individual avatar's colour preferences would - I imagine - be a feature not heavily used and the additional effort taken to implement the feature might perhaps therefore be difficult to justify. But of course your proposal has set off my own brainstorming on what could be done to improve the already excellent script even further .. for example, it could be set to colour code participants contribution to a shade of colour indicative of the faction they belong to if any. Alternatively and even more advanced, a feature which would significantly improve the readability of transcripts would be one, which intelligently performed indenting of comments thereby implicitly relating them to previous remarks made by other participants in a sort of thread-like view. How this would be implemented, if it would necessitate breaking the sequentiality / chronology of the current representation and whether that would in turn constitute an undesirable level of fiddling about with original meeting transcripts thus in the process losing some authenticity is beyond me to say. In any case - nice work Gwyn on reconstructing the transcription colour coder!
Claude Desmoulins Registered User Join date: 1 Nov 2005 Posts: 388	02-07-2006 06:45 From: Kendra Bancroft I'd like to point out to the SC that I do have a copy of the election results for RA from last election. (Ulrika fowarded it to me before she left) If such a thing is useful for setting up the now vacant RA seat --lemme know. Yes. What we need is the MPP individual rankings so we can go down the list and see if anyone is willing to fill Pendari's seat.
Kendra Bancroft Rhine Maiden Join date: 17 Jun 2004 Posts: 5,813	02-07-2006 06:52 From: Claude Desmoulins Yes. What we need is the MPP individual rankings so we can go down the list and see if anyone is willing to fill Pendari's seat. just sent it to you via e-mail _____________________ The Neualtenburg Projekt PHASE III Port Neualtenburg Visit my new Blog: The Steel Kitten Roars.

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