Notecards that were included in the Agenda will be posted in replies directly after this post (or will be linked to if they already exist in the forums). The Meeting log will follow directly after the notecard details.
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Neualtenburg RA Meeting Agenda
October 2nd, 2005
**Notecard: RA Procedures for Meetings (included for reference)
1. Proposal Discussion and Votes from Last RA meeting (Sept 18th)
A) Proposed "conditions" to be placed on the Rental Chalets
project.
B) Shall there be private ownership of a casino within the City.
C) Approval of the MoCA as proposed by Kendra.
D) Approval of the Rathaus as proposed by Kendra.
*** Notecard: [will be placed this evening - cannot get in world to retrieve at time of post]
2. Proposal for addition to all issued covenants
*** Notecard: Covenant: Maximum Texture Size of 512x512
3. Proposal for Neualtenburg Bonds Bill
*** Notecard: Bill: Neualtenburg Bonds
4. Proposal for Finance Bill
*** Notecard: Finance Bill: Floating L$ Land-Use Fees and Accounting in US$
5. Proposal for Construction Authority Bill
Notecard: Bill: Construction Authority
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Summary and Logs - Neualtenburg RA Meeting for Oct. 2nd, 2005 |
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Pendari Lorentz
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Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,372
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10-05-2005 04:57
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Pendari Lorentz
Senior Member
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,372
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1. Proposal Discussion and Votes from Last RA meeting (Sept 18th)
10-05-2005 04:58
*** Notecard: [will be placed this evening - cannot get in world to retrieve at time of post]
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Pendari Lorentz
Senior Member
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,372
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RA Meeting Log Part 1 of 4
10-05-2005 05:06
When using the color transcript tool, if I choose the option to repair broken lines, it puts items that should have [.B.] (without the dots) as having <B>. So I chose not to fix the broken the lines, as the grey coloring seems less distracting than tags. If this is changed on the tool, I will gladly resubmit the log and edit these posts. :)
==== Meeting on 2005-10-02 Those present: Pendari Lorentz is in the chair. Aliasi Stonebender: TMI, Tai... Tai Tuppakaka: Hehe Pendari Lorentz: recorder on. Welcome everyone to the October 2nd meeting of the Neualtenburg RA Aliasi Stonebender: anyway, yay for being... well, not in the black, but with a surplus. Satchmo Prototype: doh I forgot to put in my proposal for hazing the new residents :) Kendra Bancroft: saved green for you only, Garnet Garnet Psaltery: :o) Pendari Lorentz: Eugene is not here, hopefully he will make it before the meeting is over. I know he has had computer trouble Tai Tuppakaka: I saw Eugene last night. I think he's fixed his issues. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I feel my party is always underrepresented, lol Sudane Erato: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, that's good to know, Tai! Kendra Bancroft: what am I? chopped liver? Pendari Lorentz: First item on the Agenda today is a wrap up of the action items from last meeting. Please take a moment to read over the notecard titled "Proposal Votes and Dicsussions from Sept. 18th Meeting" Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kendra ? you're very good looking chopped liver, but without voting ability ;) Sudane Erato: lol Kendra Bancroft: :P Pendari Lorentz: Ok. Agenda item 1a Sudane Erato: yes Pendari Lorentz: Proposed "conditions" to be placed on the Rental Chalets project. Kendra Bancroft: Yah but I can harangue everybody into seeing things my way Gwyneth Llewelyn: :-D Pendari Lorentz: any comments on the proposal included as "conditions" for this proposal? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, to make it short, I accept 1A as stated. Gwyneth Llewelyn: No comments :) Kendra Bancroft: It's rather a moot point --since I'm moving the rntal project to other lands Pendari Lorentz: I also accept 1A as stated Gwyneth Llewelyn: pfft kendra. Why? Pendari Lorentz: umm.. hmm.. why Kendra? Pendari Lorentz: we have been discussing this all week. this is the first I have heard you state that :-( Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed :( Kendra Bancroft: I no longer see the upside for the City in light of the fact that we are getting actual citizens Pendari Lorentz: Kendra Pendari Lorentz: do you have today's agenda? Kendra Bancroft: I could still go ahead with it Gwyneth Llewelyn: We will charge you for having wasted our time, pfft Pendari Lorentz: do you see the proposal under 1a? Aliasi Stonebender: not wanting to tie up the lots for normal citizen prospects? Sudane Erato: :) Aliasi Stonebender: that seems to be handled under the current proposal tho Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Aliasi. The one month rental period will handle that as a compromise. Pendari Lorentz: Kendra. do you have today's agenda? Kendra Bancroft: I do now Pendari Lorentz: ok. hehe.. take a moment to read over the notecard for item 1 section a Kendra Bancroft: I can accept those conditions Pendari Lorentz: ok. Sudane, Satch? Sudane Erato: yes with me :) Satchmo Prototype: I vote Aye Satchmo Prototype: and nice work putting that together everyone Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye indeed for me as well (just to make sure :) ) Garnet Psaltery: Fine by me as well Pendari Lorentz: ok. That is 4 yes votes on this propsal. That is enough to pass the propsal even without Eugene Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes :) Kendra Bancroft: Yes those conditions on the chalets are fine :) Pendari Lorentz: Agenda Item 1B Gwyneth Llewelyn: Goodie :) Pendari Lorentz: B) Shall there be private ownership of a casino within the City. Glass of Champagne: Cheers from Kitchen Kreations!! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Transalation on the proposals.... Pendari Lorentz: this item seems to be a tough one for us all to compromise on. there are 3 proposals that we seem to have narrowed it down to Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1B) 1. -> gambling is state-controlled Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1B) 2. -> state benefits from gambling Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1B) 3. -> gambling is free and not controlled Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think I got that right ... Pendari Lorentz: yes.. that sounds right Gwyeth Aliasi Stonebender: Well, Gwyn, as I understand it, if someone otherwise followed the current covenants, we already effectively have 3, don't we? Pendari Lorentz: though 1b)3 would be no control other than normal guild standards Gwyneth Llewelyn: More or the less, Aliasi. Garnet Psaltery: I like B2. We have some controls, get money, and are less likely to have proliferating casinos Kendra Bancroft: Might I mention that I have already entered into discussion with Satchmo to the effect that I am considering refitting the Gasthaus in Altenburg as a casino? Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'd say, the OLD idea of the Casino falls neatly under B Gwyneth Llewelyn: You should mention that, Kendra, hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks :) Satchmo Prototype: I support B3 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course, to be consistent... Satchmo Prototype: Gambling doesn't carry the same connotations as brinign in low income workers and degenerates in VR like it does in RL Satchmo Prototype: to me, in VR, gambling is like selling clothes Satchmo Prototype: and I certainly don't support controlling clothing sales Pendari Lorentz: ok.. each RA member. Lets narrow this down further. As of right now. Which proposal do you support most. 1b)1, 1b)2, or 1b)3 Aliasi Stonebender: the only downside of many SL casinos is how poorly they're done, but that is what the current covenant is supposed to guard against. Sudane Erato: :) Satchmo Prototype: indeed Aliasi Gwyneth Llewelyn: I of course vote for A - controlled gambling; abstain on B; and I have some doubts on C, but will probably abstain on that as well. Garnet Psaltery: 1b)2 Satchmo Prototype: 1b)3 Sudane Erato: 3 Pendari Lorentz: just asking for RA input right this minute Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes :) Pendari Lorentz: Gwyn, you said 1b)1? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Comments are welcome, though, Garnet. Kendra Bancroft: What prevents "Altenburg from having a Casino currently? Pendari Lorentz: yes Gwyn Pendari Lorentz: it is still within the city walls Kendra Satchmo Prototype: nothing currently, but they want to make rules against it :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I'd vote on 1b)1 and abstain on the others. Satchmo Prototype: without special permit Gwyneth Llewelyn: Satchmo is quite right. Pendari Lorentz: so mainly the argument is.. should the city make money off the casino or not Satchmo Prototype: for those of you who support B, I have a queston Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'd say no, Pen. Satchmo Prototype: if I bet on a football game with my friends, in my fachwerk, and I don't have a permit, there would be ramifications? Satchmo Prototype: even if no scripts are involved? Pendari Lorentz: my vote would be 1b)3 by the way.. sorry.. Sudane Erato: 3 out of 4 have voted 3 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Satchmo: casinos have the side-effect of creating lag, attracting people to a spot, creating "noise"; etc Gwyneth Llewelyn: So it's different. Aliasi Stonebender: But, Gwyn Satchmo Prototype: so do bars (noise) Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was actually what a minority of citizens expressed in the forums. Pendari Lorentz: the reason I am fine with 3 is because the Guild still has control over the standards Aliasi Stonebender: we already *have* provisions against those. Satchmo Prototype: as far as lag goes we already have a method for that Satchmo Prototype: I'm against making laws for the sake of laws Aliasi Stonebender: well, lag and noise anyway Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm just voicing the minority's views on the subject, lol, to make sure their opinions and issues are duly represented at teh RA ;) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pen: yes. Pendari Lorentz: I agree with that Satch.. mainly I think we were just trying to ease concerns of citizens who were unsure about having a casino in the city Pendari Lorentz: thank Gwyneth! I'm glad for that! =) Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, lol. In this issue I'm really not supporting my own views, lol Sudane Erato: :) Satchmo Prototype: so Eugene actually has a tie-breaker here Pendari Lorentz: not really Satch Satchmo Prototype: well potentially Pendari Lorentz: as 3 of us voted 1b)3 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just trying to get a reasonable compromise among my own views (free gambling, not city-controlled) and what a minority asked us to consider. Satchmo Prototype: ah I see Aliasi Stonebender: "angel's advocate", eh? Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's why I'm more "against" 2, where the city is really getting something out of the gambling Pendari Lorentz: I can call this a done vote now.. but it has been such an issue, I just want to make sure the RA is comfortable with this Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes Aliasi Gwyneth Llewelyn: I do that a lot, actually :)I Pendari Lorentz: yes Gwyneth Sudane Erato: ultimately the city can assess the casino a higher fee, if it is very successful Tai Tuppakaka: I know that I made a big stink about a casino to begin with. But I'd just like to stay that although I am ideologicaly opposed to a casino, I won't stand up against a civic proposal to have one. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not under 3), Sudane. Satchmo Prototype: heh I'm against that as well Sudane, but that's a different issue Pendari Lorentz: not under 3 Sudane Satchmo Prototype: it's like charging higher rent on successful clothing business Melina Loonie: Tai, I do not want to have a casino either. Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Pen ;) Satchmo Prototype: cause they are successful Sudane Erato: yes, I think so... since the City always retains the right to change the fees Gwyneth Llewelyn: precisely, Satchmo. I definitely oppose that! Pendari Lorentz: is that in every standard covenant already Sudane? Sudane Erato: yes it is Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Sudane, on the grounds of "principle", I'm against "discrimination" (positive of negative) in land fees Sudane Erato: i think its a fair system... Sudane Erato: its like a real estate assessment Pendari Lorentz: I think if it is not the guild doing the work, then the city cannot ask for money for a private business Sudane Erato: if the land gets more valuable... Aliasi Stonebender: for what it's worth, so am I. The city already gets enough "reward" from a successful operation from *people coming here*. Pendari Lorentz: is my opinion Sudane Erato: then the fee goes up Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don't oppose the idea that this is actually defined in the covenants (ie. the ability to change the fees) because future RAs could come up with new ideas. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or that, yes, Sudane. Kendra Bancroft: Pardon me --but that's ridiculous Pendari Lorentz: it sounds like Sudane you would rather vote for 1b)2? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi Eugene! (whew!) Satchmo Prototype: it's not hte land that is woth more Satchmo Prototype: but the busienss Kendra Bancroft: It actually discourages growth Satchmo Prototype: if someone just moves that business to Midnight City Satchmo Prototype: then Neualt is screwed Pendari Lorentz: welcome Eugene! click the penguin for a notecard Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, Satchmo. Land gets more valuable due to successful business, of course Pendari Lorentz: of the agenda Sudane Erato: yes Kendra Bancroft: If Modehaus is successful --will the city raise my fee? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Precisely, Kendra. Tai Tuppakaka: I'd just like the RA members to consider this. What are the ideals you stand for? I consider Neualtenbrhurg to be a bit of a Utopia. I'm not sure where gambling fits into that. Pendari Lorentz: I would not think that would be right Kendra Sudane Erato: obviously the City would restrian itself... cause it wants to keep the business Gwyneth Llewelyn: As long as I'm on the RA, I'll vote against that :) Kendra Bancroft: and if not --why is gambling different than any other merchant? Satchmo Prototype: that's my stance Kendra Pendari Lorentz: it is an organic city Tai.. things will come and go and evolve Satchmo Prototype: if we place limitiations on business types Sudane Erato: Kendra, you're right Melina Loonie: Tai, seems that nobody is listening to us ... :-( Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I understand that future RAs may charge fees depending on the "value" the business has. That could be a possibility. Satchmo Prototype: then all new ideas require approval from teh RA? Kendra Bancroft: are we here to support our mrchant class or exploit them? Sudane Erato: every merchant or other property should be assessed thusly |
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Pendari Lorentz
Senior Member
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,372
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RA Meeting Log Part 2 of 4
10-05-2005 05:07
Satchmo Prototype: like if I want to open up a theatre, and put on
plays... do I need to ask permission Aliasi Stonebender: I agree, Kendra. What's the difference between a "gambling machine" that takes money (and sometimes refunds) and a vendor that ALSO takes money (with a refund feature)? Satchmo Prototype: will I build it and be told it's illegal? Kendra Bancroft: The Guild will not stand for that, Sudane Pendari Lorentz: that is untrue Melina.. we are listening =) Sudane Erato: its in every deed Tai Tuppakaka: What nees to be considered is the morality vs. the profitable. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, for the sake of argument ? gambling, as in casino gambling, is a "different" business, just because SOME citizens view it as such. Sudane Erato: and in the covenants Sudane Erato: the City can change the fees Pendari Lorentz: ture also Gwyneth Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thus, it's the RA's responsability to present some of the citizens' views to discussion. Satchmo Prototype: well I'm protecting the views of free enterprise Satchmo Prototype: we have a few business owners here :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since we're sovereign, though, we can simply rule out that "gambling is different" (ie. proposal 3), but then we'll face the consequences at the next elections ;) Sudane Erato: and I too support free enterprise Kendra Bancroft: If the city wishes to tax a gambling establishment that is another matter --but to base land rentals on a merchant's sucess? ridiculous Melina Loonie: TY, Gwyn! Pendari Lorentz: it is the guild that is in charge of the treasury.. it would seem if the Guild Meister has an issue with the deeds, perhaps that is something the guild should discuss? Tai Tuppakaka: Free enterprise has never been known for being moral. Aliasi Stonebender: I don't find gambling morally objectionable, thugh. (Stupid, sure. But stupidity isn't a sin, just stupid.) Pendari Lorentz: the tax would fall under proposal 1b)a Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ys. Pendari Lorentz: err, 1b)1 Gwyneth Llewelyn: *yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: proposal 1b)a is a compromise. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gambling is "state-directed" Aliasi Stonebender: but on the "raise land fees if a biz is successful" - I can tell youain advance what the result would be Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. not free for everyone Gwyneth Llewelyn: but allowed under a license Kendra Bancroft: I might add --any merchant taxes must be submitted to the guild for approval Pendari Lorentz: right gwyneth.. that is why 1b)1 exists. it is sort of a halfway between the other two Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the state does not profit from it directly Aliasi Stonebender: "that sounds like a really good deal, but I have a better one. I give you the finger, and move to another sim!" Gwyneth Llewelyn: Precisely, Pen. Pendari Lorentz: yes Kendra Tai Tuppakaka: Huh? Pendari Lorentz: Aliasi was giving a sample reaction Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Sudane Erato: hehe Pendari Lorentz: to raising the cost of land for a successful business =) Sudane Erato: yes Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, sorry. and more on the general "tax successful merchants more" principle Aliasi Stonebender: less the gambling side... sorry for the sidetrack. Gwyneth Llewelyn: and Kendra ? under 1B) 1., I would expect the taxes or the permit or whatever to be something the Guild collects directly. Pendari Lorentz: Eugene.. have you had a chance to look at the agenda yet? we are on item 1 B Kendra Bancroft: I'll tell you the Guild's reaction right now, while I'm Guildmeister Tai Tuppakaka: What are we about? Kendra Bancroft: Every single store in Neualtenburg closes it's doors Eugene Pomeray: i'm looking right now :) Tai Tuppakaka: Is it business? Or community? Aliasi Stonebender: Both. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Both, yes. Pendari Lorentz: both Tai.. and government too =) Gwyneth Llewelyn: :) Sudane Erato: both, by necessity Satchmo Prototype: I think this is an evolving city, that's my view Tai Tuppakaka: Well, I thnk that moral decisions must play a part. Satchmo Prototype: utopia usually results in genocide Sudane Erato: lol Pendari Lorentz: I will never mix church and state =) Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Pendari Lorentz: just need to put that out there.. hehe Sudane Erato: whew! this is moving far! Aliasi Stonebender: Whose morality, Tai? Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... although we had a period of time with the Head of State and the Head of Church being the same person *blushes* Sudane Erato: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: Neualtenburg was a teocracy! Woot! Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, we're actually waiting for Eugene's vote... Kendra Bancroft: The Guild is a corporate a oligarchy :) Pendari Lorentz: Sudane stepped on my toes.. Ok.. call to order. RA.. give me your thoughts again right now (need just RA for a minute).. which do you like best 1b)1, 1b)2, or 1b)3? Satchmo Prototype: 1b)3 Tai Tuppakaka: Lol. I admit that morality is a tough nut to crack. But I doubt that you will find any society that santions gamgling for any purpose other thatn raising revenues, and I find it distasteful. Sudane Erato: 3 Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1b)1 Pendari Lorentz: 1b)3 for me Satchmo Prototype: woot I'm distasteful Satchmo Prototype: wonder how that will play in the next elections :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Satchmo :) Tai Tuppakaka: No, you're a businessman. Tai Tuppakaka: I don't disparage you. Tai Tuppakaka: But I think as a community we have a right and an obligation to set standards. Pendari Lorentz: with 1b)3.. this would mean that the guild sets standards for the casino (as it is within the city walls).. but the owners will retain full profits from the business Satchmo Prototype: I promise when I campaign I will drap a Neult flag over the bare breasts of statues! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, and no limits (city.imposed) on the types and number of casinos, etc. It would be all the Guild's decision to do proper urban planning. Sudane Erato: yes Pendari Lorentz: that would be correct Gwyn Kendra Bancroft: So essentially you are placing Casinos under Guild auspices? Tai Tuppakaka: For the record, I find it within the community standards to have open displays of nudity. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Again, that's a reason why I also consider the vote on 1B)1. I think that the RA should also have a saying, not just the "corporate oligarchy", since non-merchants (but citizens nevertheless!) should have a saying on community standards. Pendari Lorentz: as it is a build within the City walls, Kendra.. the guild sets the standards Melina Loonie: Tai, LOL Pendari Lorentz: in other words.. if the guild felt the casino was too laggy, they could insist it be cleaned up (script wise, etc) Kendra Bancroft: or shut down Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kendra ? since Eugene is silent (and I guess he's having troubles with his connection) ? I think that you're right, it would be just the Guild regulating "casinos". Pendari Lorentz: I'm sure satch will do a beautiful job, but yes, this has to be stated Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I'm quite certain on that as well, lol Melina Loonie: How many casinos are we going to have ... in the end? Kendra Bancroft: Then in fact --any Casino liscence to operate is issued thru the Guild Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not under 1B1 Gwyneth Llewelyn: There won't be "licenses to operate" Sudane Erato: no, there is no license Satchmo Prototype: to take off my RA hat... I'm not doing a Casino for the money at all.... I want to do it so people have something to do when they visit Neualt Pendari Lorentz: no.. if we were going to have a license, it would have to be a bill and that would involve the RA Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just general issues regarding location, build aesthetics, lag issues, etc Kendra Bancroft: There is if you want the Guild to let you operate Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Kendra Bancroft: otherwise what is my power to regulate? Pendari Lorentz: the guild does not need to issue permits Kendra.. only standards Tai Tuppakaka: Don't you find it a bit sad, that so many local governments in the real world are resorting to gambling to solve their fiscal woes? Gwyneth Llewelyn: So this means that you can prevent any other person to do business in N'burg? hehe Pendari Lorentz: like the list of Standards you are typing up to give to the RA Aliasi Stonebender: Not really. Kendra Bancroft: The Guild can do whatever the heck i wants, Pendari --The RA does not set Guild policy Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL Tai Tuppakaka: So we should have a casino on every corner? Satchmo Prototype: should we having clohting stores on every corner? Aliasi Stonebender: Not in the least. I am nto saddened by gambling, I'm saddened by the poor state of education that peopel continue to believe they can get something for nothing. Sudane Erato: exactly Melina Loonie: Yes, that would bring us a lot of money ... but the residents would move away. :-( Pendari Lorentz: right Kendra.. but you were going to get us a list of standards as it helps us in decisions.. the guild sets the standards for the look, etc. of the city. The RA is only involved when it becomes a matter of deciding on needed builds for the city and thus Tai Tuppakaka: There's a difference. Gambling preys on the poor.l Pendari Lorentz: needing to commision the guild Kendra Bancroft: But the RA doesn't determine commerce Eugene Pomeray: i think one street should be turned into shopping/gamling area Kendra Bancroft: that's my point Pendari Lorentz: right Kendra Pendari Lorentz: but we *do* have to pass bills Pendari Lorentz: I'm saying a bill is not needed Pendari Lorentz: the guild already has the power to say when something is harming the city Kendra Bancroft: All I'm saying is that if you are having the Guild establish standards for a business --you can expect that the guild will issue gaming liscenses on casinos Sudane Erato: construction standards Pendari Lorentz: Covenants are guild issued as well Sudane? Sudane Erato: thats all Pendari Lorentz: yes.. construction standards. Kendra Bancroft: and zoning issues Sudane Erato: the coveneants are in the founding documents Tai Tuppakaka: There are social issues to consider in addition to fiscal issues. Not all businesses are the same. Pendari Lorentz: sorry.. I'm still unclear a lot about covenants due to them being introduced while I was away Kendra Bancroft: If I determine a proposed loation will ruin the city --I will not allow a casino there Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, kendra. Pendari Lorentz: yes.. that I do believe is a guild function Gwyneth Llewelyn: Definitely, yes. Kendra Bancroft: The RA has zero function telling the Guild what it can and cannot permit Sudane Erato: the covenants were added to provide a set of standrds for land use.... under ownership Satchmo Prototype: in the interest of time, either lets have a final vote or push this issue off Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh Sudane. Sudane Erato: they are part of the ownership agreement Pendari Lorentz: but if the RA feels that a needed build should be in an area .. then we can approach the guild with that Sudane Erato: ywes Gwyneth Llewelyn: As said, the Guild will have a saying *always* Kendra Bancroft: That's all I' saying Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1b1, however, introduces a special bill Pendari Lorentz: Kendra.. what is your issue with item 1b)3? Satchmo Prototype: if there is more discourse to have, lets push it off Eugene Pomeray: i vote 1b)2 Kendra Bancroft: I approbe B3 Gwyneth Llewelyn: where the citizens (non-merchants, so, not Guild members) would have a voice as well. Kendra Bancroft: I have no problem with that Kendra Bancroft: BUT Kendra Bancroft: if you are giving the Guild a responsability --it is up to ther Guild to excercise what it feels is the best way to keep that responsability Kendra Bancroft: the RA cannot set Guild policy Pendari Lorentz: right Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, but the RA can rule that some things are not fully under the Guild's authority :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1b3 simply regards a casino as just another business ? thus, fully (and only) Guild-regulated. Satchmo Prototype: I wonder if setting up a book store dedicated to the flying spaghetti monster meets moral standards Kendra Bancroft: It can petetition the SC to make that determination Satchmo Prototype: certainly not for some Gwyneth Llewelyn: Whereas 1b1 recognizes that gambling is a special situation. Kendra Bancroft: it cannot unilaterally decide that |
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Pendari Lorentz
Senior Member
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,372
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RA Meeting Log Part 3 of 4
10-05-2005 05:08
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And allows the citizens (non-Guild members) to have a
saying as well. Satchmo Prototype: lets issue liscenses for FSM stuff inside the city walls! Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Satchmo :) Pendari Lorentz: ok.. the RA majority vote on this issue is 1b)3 .. citizens.. if you have concerns on standards, I urge you to please join the guild and/or talk with our Guild Master Kendra. Kendra Bancroft: I often wonder if the RA realizes it is but a third branch of a government Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, good point :) Pendari Lorentz: I've never thought otherwise Kendra =) Pendari Lorentz: Next item on the agenda.. 1 C) Approval of the MoCA as proposed by Kendra. Sudane Erato: yes Tai Tuppakaka: Satch, I understand your argument regarding the spaghetti monster, but I don't think it's quite the same. Pendari Lorentz: Kendra, any issues with the concerns proposal included in this agenda Pendari Lorentz: item Kendra Bancroft: I am in agreement to the proposed changes to my proposal Gwyneth Llewelyn: Again, nothing to comment, except for one single point... Aliasi Stonebender: (... heh... on a tangental note... now THERE'S a good Thinker's topic...) Pendari Lorentz: state what you want to Gwyneth Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who sets the goals for the MoCA? ;) Kendra Bancroft: I would imagine the Guild sets the goals --and the City can agree or disagree with them Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sounds reasonable, Kendra. Pendari Lorentz: yes.. the original request by the RA included giving the guild first rights to run the MoCA as a group if they wished Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, I would be very comfortable with the Guild setting its own goals, and present the results in the form of a report after, say, 3 months, to the RA. Pendari Lorentz: that is what is in the agenda notecard Gwyneth. Kendra has stated she is fine with this. Yes? Gwyneth Llewelyn: And the rest is really for the Guild to discuss, ie. if it outsources to a private group or not, etc etc Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah - on the notecard it states "The City sets the goals" Kendra Bancroft: I'm fine with that --if the goals allow for the first month's goal to be the actual build Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was actually my wording on the email :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Kendra ? of course! Gwyneth Llewelyn: One month for the building, then the Guild sets up its own goals Pendari Lorentz: I am fine with that Gwyneth Llewelyn: For me, the only important issue is: the MoCA is City-funded, City-built Gwyneth Llewelyn: The rest is utter freedom for the Guild to decide :() Gwyneth Llewelyn: And that was a smiley :)= Kendra Bancroft: And my proposed design is liked? Melina Loonie: I am leaving now ... I will go to the Biergarte, as long as we still have it. Anybody like to join me? Pendari Lorentz: have fun Melina =) Kendra Bancroft: Biergarten isn't going anywhere Gwyneth Llewelyn: enjoy yourself Melina :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: and yes, the Biergarten is staying. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway - 1C) is passed? Pendari Lorentz: ok. On this item. RA votes now yes? if yes? what are your votes Gwyneth Llewelyn: All said "aye"? :) Satchmo Prototype: Aye Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye for me, of course. Sudane Erato: yes for me Eugene Pomeray: aye Pendari Lorentz: ok. Next! = Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok ? unanimous on that, lol Sudane Erato: :) Pendari Lorentz: item 1D all in the RA have voted yes on this proposal. We would like the guild to consider our payment options if you can =) Gwyneth Llewelyn: D? ;) Pendari Lorentz: D) Approval of the Rathaus as proposed by Kendra. Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* Kendra Bancroft: Proposed payment schedule for Rathaus is acceptable Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was fast, Kendra ;) I vote: (via Satchmo Prototype) Aye Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye for me as well. Eugene Pomeray: yes Pendari Lorentz: I voted yes.. so moving on! =) Pendari Lorentz: agenda item 2. Proposal for addition to all issued covenants (past and future) Pendari Lorentz: comments? vote now? or vote 7 days? Satchmo Prototype: vote now Satchmo Prototype: and Aye :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's a proposal from the Guild to the RA to change the covenant, right? Kendra Bancroft: Works better for me anyway as I won't start in earnest on the new Rathaus unti after I make some headway on MoCA Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and yes ? vote now) Sudane Erato: *sigh* a lot of work to change all the past ones Eugene Pomeray: vote now Satchmo Prototype: a lot of work to reduce the lag? sounds like a reasonable compromise Sudane Erato: but I certainly agree with the concept Satchmo Prototype: oh, the actually documents themselves Pendari Lorentz: I don't think they have to be added to the ones out there Sudane.. a notecard sent out with the changes only I'm sure would be fine? Sudane Erato: yes Sudane Erato: the docs Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, we're allowed to change the covenants retroactively, right? Pendari Lorentz: just that they would be considered for current citizens, not just new ones Sudane Erato: yes, Gwyn, i think so Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Kendra Bancroft: Any of my textures are already within the new covenant of 512X512 Kendra Bancroft: so anything using my textures can stay as is Sudane Erato: its mostly all the fachwerks Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I agree to include any Guild recommendations on the covenants, of course. Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, definitely an "aye" from me again. Sudane Erato: they are full of 1024x1024 Aliasi Stonebender: (for the record, I never use textures above 512x512 with one exception, and it's not in Neualtenburg.) Kendra Bancroft: I would suggest that we do a redesign on each model of the fachwerk's Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure :) Kendra Bancroft: offer them as upgrades and have the citizens swap them out Eugene Pomeray: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* Gwyneth Llewelyn: Very good proposal! Sudane Erato: modifiable Eugene Pomeray: the new fachwerks should have more city feel Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, please! Kendra Bancroft: I'd also like to propose a bill Pendari Lorentz: the item on the floor now is this proposal: 2. Proposal for addition to all issued covenants (past and future) -The largest texture allowed in the city will be 512x512 pixels. This applies to all covenant zones and all structures unless overridden by the Pendari Lorentz: the Guild Master. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye on 2. Sudane Erato: I agree Satchmo Prototype: Aye Kendra Bancroft: May I make a proposal? Eugene Pomeray: aye Satchmo Prototype: nope Kendra :) Kendra Bancroft: It will reduce lag greatly Pendari Lorentz: is it already on the agenda? if not, it will need to be submitted for next meeting =) Kendra Bancroft: Clean Air tax Kendra Bancroft: The city should tax all particle emissions Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Pendari Lorentz: please do get a proposal in for our next meeting =) Pendari Lorentz: agenda item 2 - all RA have voted yes Kendra Bancroft: seriously --the chimney smoke is killing us Sudane Erato: particles are covered in the existing covenant Pendari Lorentz: Agenda item 3) Sudane Erato: yes Kendra Bancroft: But if we tax them --people will think twice Satchmo Prototype: yea I noticed that about he chimney's as well Kendra Kendra Bancroft: I'm not saying out;aw them Kendra Bancroft: just charge for the lag u make Pendari Lorentz: I seriously need a 5 min recess.. my child is needing to be tended for a moment. I will be right back. Feel free to move on to agenda item 3. Proposal for Neualtenburg Bonds Bill Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, ok ? people, let's use the upcoming week to discuss that. Sudane Erato: agreed Gwyn Pendari Lorentz: we will need a full proposal.. please do submit a notecard Kendra, I think it will be a good item to discuss next week =) Kendra Bancroft: okie mokie Pendari Lorentz: 3. Proposal for Neualtenburg Bonds Bill Pendari Lorentz: and I will return shortly.. (3 mins!) Kendra Bancroft: stop biting your nails, Eugene --it drives me nuts Sudane Erato: :) Satchmo Prototype: I don't have any objections to the bonds as stated by Ulrika... I was just wondering where 6 months came from Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Kendra :) Eugene Pomeray: hehe Sudane Erato: I have only the objection of applying the existing loans as bonds under this bill Sudane Erato: since the city is not good for them Satchmo Prototype: what is the state of the current loands? Kendra Bancroft: I agreee, Sudane --they should be new bonds Sudane Erato: ahh... Sudane Erato: Satch... I recall I think that we owe about US$550 Sudane Erato: until there is underlying value in the city Eugene Pomeray: i will be right back Sudane Erato: there is nothing to issue the bonds agaibnst Sudane Erato: there is no "security" for the bond holder Kendra Bancroft: don't you have gold fillings, Sudane? Sudane Erato: hehe Sudane Erato: perhaps Satchmo Prototype: sudane will never smile again :) Sudane Erato: :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Aliasi Stonebender: "can we have your kidney?" Sudane Erato: you have my personal credit :) Sudane Erato: thats enough! Satchmo Prototype: we can hire Amiee to steal her kidney Kendra Bancroft: Let's kidnap Aimee Weber'sd panties Sudane Erato: lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Gwyneth Llewelyn: We'll have to live with unsecured bonds :P Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who cares... Sudane Erato: well... no Sudane Erato: if we sell bonds now Satchmo Prototype: what is the payback plan for the current loan? Gwyneth Llewelyn: The value of them reflects N'burg's ability to be ran successfully :) Sudane Erato: that cash represents value Sudane Erato: there is no payback plan Satchmo Prototype: ah, good deal for the city Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course, Satchmo :) Sudane Erato: it simply is the faith on the growth of NBurg Satchmo Prototype: bad deal for the loanees Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Sudane Erato: yes Sudane Erato: but Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the loanees are completely nuts anyway, so... ;) Sudane Erato: issue bonds Sudane Erato: thats different Sudane Erato: you can't approach bonds the same way as the original loans Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Ulrika was pretty much interested in having the original "loans" be converted into bonds. Sudane Erato: yes Kendra Bancroft: How about we use Garnet's kisses to back up the bonds Sudane Erato: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that she would like all the bonds be "regulated" under the same bill. Sudane Erato: shes the big merchant these days :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: :-) Sudane Erato: but Gwyn, those need not be considered bonds Satchmo Prototype: well the original "loans" were never "bonds" it appears Sudane Erato: they had that name Kendra Bancroft: oh please --I'm making a mint on my armour Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, yes, of course. Sudane Erato: but as Ulrika has shown with her formulas Sudane Erato: they were not bonds Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm not saying we "must" consider them as bonds Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just that Ulrika would *like* them to be considered bonds. Sudane Erato: yes, she would Sudane Erato: she doesnt buy my concern Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe ok Sudane :) Pendari Lorentz: scrolling for a sec Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the RA surely can decide that Pendari Lorentz: honestly.. I have *no* head for this issue Satchmo Prototype: so vote party line :) Sudane Erato: :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww Pen Pendari Lorentz: it seems fine. but I have no idea what the neg would be Gwyneth Llewelyn: But this is a quite serious and complex issue. Sudane Erato: well.. there's no security Pendari Lorentz: Ok. I would like a 7 day vote on this proposal Satchmo Prototype: can you explain what that means Sudane? Sudane Erato: you take money from someone... Sudane Erato: and you have nothing to offer them of tangible value |
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Pendari Lorentz
Senior Member
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,372
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RA Meeting Log Part 4 of 4
10-05-2005 05:11
Sudane Erato: unfortuantely
Gwyneth Llewelyn: if I remember correctly, Sudane, Ulrika proposed that when the City can't pay back, it simply re-issues new bonds... right? Sudane Erato: the most tangible value Kendra Bancroft: we have land Sudane Erato: we do not have land Satchmo Prototype: ugg, that's an ugly solution Sudane Erato: we have sold most of it Aliasi Stonebender: it's like with a bank loan... you have to put somethign up as collateral. Or, for that matter, on a small scale... a pawn shop. :P Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, Satchmo. Sudane Erato: yes, alisi Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, Aliasi. Sudane Erato: nobody buys bonds unless they feel they'll get the money back in 6 months Gwyneth Llewelyn: (btw, I agree with Pen on this, I'd like a 7-day vote as well) Sudane Erato: and, if theres no way to do so Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Right now, we can only offer "trust". Sudane Erato: excapt buy more bonds3 Sudane Erato: then its a pyramid scheme Kendra Bancroft: WE could do it like in "The Producers". Sell more bonds than 100% percent and make sure N'burg is a flop Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, good point. Satchmo Prototype: yey pyramid schemes and casinos... we're on a roll today Aliasi Stonebender: So far as I know, Ulrika wasn't actually proposing to sell any new bonds, tho... just a system for future bonds, retrofitting the original loans. Sudane Erato: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Satchmo! Pendari Lorentz: lol Kendra Pendari Lorentz: haha Satch Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well yes, Aliasi. Sudane Erato: and its *only* the retro fit I have a problem with Gwyneth Llewelyn: But the point still remains ? if we cannot *ever* offer guarantees.... Sudane Erato: but... I vote for 7 days Gwyneth Llewelyn: what is the point in having bonds to offer? Sudane Erato: sure we can *ever* offer guarantees Kendra Bancroft: It's a way tp raise capital Pendari Lorentz: then there would be consideration to accept the proposal if it were only for future bonds, and did not affect original loans given to the city? Sudane Erato: the balnce sheet shows our value Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's still a trust-based system :) Sudane Erato: and now its negative Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... like any other economical system, anyway. Sudane Erato: when its positive... then we can sell bonds Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.... Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's still half a year away, at least... hehe Sudane Erato: perhaps Pendari Lorentz: Ok. I motion we take this proposal to emails and forums for a seven day vote Sudane Erato: aye Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I think I agree with that, Pen. Satchmo Prototype: aye Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let's go to the next polemic topic :) Pendari Lorentz: ok. Next agenda item: 4. Proposal for Finance Bill Pendari Lorentz: hehe Gwyn Sudane Erato: no... I think we are all in agreement Gwyneth Llewelyn: talers, talers.... we need talers :) Sudane Erato: I have only one addition Satchmo Prototype: first off, we need to take the letters GOM off anything official Pendari Lorentz: this math is killing me Sudane Erato: and that is to add what Satch proposed today in the forum Sudane Erato: that the exchange value be set each month Satchmo Prototype: yes I agree to my proposal! Kendra Bancroft: If you'll excuse me --since we've attended to matters that deal with the Guild already --I'm gonna log off and get some pizza Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed, Satchmo. Satchmo Prototype: later Kendra Kendra Bancroft: Tschau Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is item 5, Kendra :) Also Guild-related. Pendari Lorentz: ok Kendra! thank you for being here! =) PS: the build for the SLCC looks wonderful!! Kendra Bancroft: oh okay Kendra Bancroft: I'll hang for 5 Pendari Lorentz: ok Kendra Bancroft: and TY! Satchmo Prototype: want to re-order 4 and 5 for the sake of Pizza? Aliasi Stonebender: indeed Kendra, I'm building right across from it. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm fine with that suggestion, Satchmo. For Kendra's sake. Kendra Bancroft: oh --I'll have to take a peep, Aliasi Sudane Erato: well... I think 4 is agreeable to all Pendari Lorentz: ok.. for 4. I'm hearing 3 yes's with the added forums stuff from Satch for item 4? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well yes, "aye" on 4, anyway. Sudane Erato: why not just approve it? Satchmo Prototype: aye Aliasi Stonebender: not just me, mind... collaboration between me and Jackan Ennui for thinker's. Sudane Erato: aye Pendari Lorentz: ok.. then you don't need my vote. Pendari Lorentz: haha Sudane Erato: hehe Satchmo Prototype: heh Gwyneth Llewelyn: Your vote is always valuable :) Satchmo Prototype: I just wonder how i't sgoing to be operationally carried out Satchmo Prototype: I mean is Sudane going to have to notify everyone Satchmo Prototype: of what they owe in $L's? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the point is, how to determine R' ;) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Kendra Bancroft: we should post a money exchange in the Rathaus Sudane Erato: it will be carried out by a document which must be consulted by all those who pay in L$ Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kendra ? that was my proposal, lol Pendari Lorentz: Item 4 passed with majority vote - (pen abstains due to having NO head for math). Will add Satch's forum addition and re-present bill to proposer (Ulrika) Sudane Erato: before they pay Pendari Lorentz: if Ulrika has no objections, this bill will be considered passed Sudane Erato: I've prepared that doc Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok :) Kendra Bancroft: That's cos I'm your alt Sudane Erato: its on one of the links Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol Satchmo Prototype: lol Sudane Erato: and also on the site already Agenda item: (via Pendari Lorentz) 5. Proposal for Construction Authority Bill Gwyneth Llewelyn: And here we go, hehe Pendari Lorentz: hehe.. we sort of touched on this during the casino talks :-p Sudane Erato: its fine with me Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, basically, it's just a clarification of the Guild/RA interface as regards urban planning. Pendari Lorentz: does any RA member wish to have a 7 day vote on this bill proposal? Pendari Lorentz: yes Gwyn.. that is how I see it Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not really ? lol, I agree right now on that. Kendra Bancroft: To me this points to why big projects are needed for the Guild --so that little projects can be done with Guild discretionary funds Sudane Erato: it applies only to City-Owned buildings, right? Gwyneth Llewelyn: "city structures on city land" Kendra Bancroft: Right now --we've been operating off of Schloss money Sudane Erato: yes... then I ceratinly agree Pendari Lorentz: I can agree to this Bill. I honestly think it is how we have already been functioning. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, it's just to make it "official". Pendari Lorentz: yes Gwyn Kendra Bancroft: it is --but it's nice to be official Satchmo Prototype: I vote aye Sudane Erato: aye Kendra Bancroft: I AM Gwyn's alt Kendra Bancroft: LOL Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm always assuming that "affecting the performance" means "affecting the performance negatively", of course. Gwyneth Llewelyn: and hahaha Kendra :) Pendari Lorentz: Majority RA vote yes on this bill propsal. Proposal passed. Satchmo Prototype: heh true Gwyn Aliasi Stonebender: yeah, you have to watch out for those nasty FPS-improving gnomes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah wait ? "adversely affect the performance" Gwyneth Llewelyn: so, always the negative Kendra Bancroft: I already started doing this anyways Kendra Bancroft: like the new streetlights? Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's quite right, kendra :) Satchmo Prototype: I propose we arrest Kendra Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes! Satchmo Prototype: for doing that illegally Gwyneth Llewelyn: pfft Satchmo Satchmo Prototype: since we didn't hav ea bill Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL Pendari Lorentz: that concludes all items on our agenda for today. If no further comments (on agenda items) I will adjorn this meeting =) Gwyneth Llewelyn: We need to arrest the builders of the Tiny City first Sudane Erato: aye Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, public execution for them. Kendra Bancroft: and they're low ad during the day --cos the lights shut off Aliasi Stonebender: wow. fastest meeting yet, I'm told. The meeting closed at 14:26 Linden time. Formatted and colorized with transcript. |
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Pendari Lorentz
Senior Member
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,372
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10-05-2005 05:12
*** spaced reserved for Actions Summary. Will be posted today!
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
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10-10-2005 23:00
When using the color transcript tool, if I choose the option to repair broken lines, it puts items that should have [.B.] (without the dots) as having <B>. ~Ulrika~ _____________________
Chik-chik-chika-ahh
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
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10-10-2005 23:09
Give me a day or two. I'll spawn a new thread on the Nburg Bond Bill.
I'd like to modify the bill such that it can be voted in line at a time so we don't have to reject the entire bill if there are just parts of it we don't like. For instance, I'll split up the suggestion of applying bonds retroactively and in the future. To do this though, the RA should have line-item vetos over all bills. Is this amenable with the RA or should each piece be drafted as a separate bill? ~Ulrika~ _____________________
Chik-chik-chika-ahh
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Tai Tuppakaka
Curious Fellow
Join date: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 109
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10-11-2005 05:15
I cringed as I read some of my comments in the transcript. I think I sounded like a wacko.
*fades sheepishly into the background* |