Representative Assembly Meeting Minutes

Hello fellow Neualtenburgers,

This will be the "official" thread for the RA meeting minutes. They'll be unedited, since they're public.

Please leave the discussions on another thread.

So, we currently have three threads for the RA...

- one for posting new bills
- one for posting the minutes
- one for general discussion on either bills or minutes

- Gwyn

You: thanks
Ulrika Zugzwang: Gwyn should be right here.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hello!
You: and hello all!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Howdee!
You: hello 'all' being Sudane, I see... lol
Sudane Erato: hi!
You: hmm why a penguin?
Sudane Erato: penguin has some notecards
You: Ah.
Sudane Erato: 9
You: It should have been a chicken, hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha. That's a good way to give out cards.
You: mm hmm
Sudane Erato: what is it about here!
You: ?
Sudane Erato: RTD and FPS are fine!
Sudane Erato: but I die!
You: aww
You: well, I have found a nifty trick...
You: under Preferences | Options...
You: Reduce the drawing distance to just 64 m
Sudane Erato: yeah?
You: This means, 8 times less objects and textures to render.
Sudane Erato: oh. i'll try it
You: It also means that you'll get a very foggy environment on open spaces
You: But since then, I'm able to get an average of 10 fps on busy sims.... hehe
You: I also have the Drop draw distance if FPS < 2
You: oh, hello there Psau
Psau Mfume: hello =)
Sudane Erato: hi!
Psau Mfume: hihi =)
Sudane Erato: gwyn, i think that is much better!
Sudane Erato: thanks!
You: it does wonders for my slow Mac...
You: I can't possible imagine how I managed to survive the past year without that, lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: I'm not supposed to be here, cause I'm not in the RA but I thought I'd drop in if you have questions about my bills.
You: Hmm Ulrika...
Sudane Erato: LOL! lots!
You: I re-read the constitution...
You: and I think that the RA meetings are supposed to be 'public'... right?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh yes!
Ulrika Zugzwang: That's true.
Sudane Erato: I think that only makes sense!
You: So you're more than welcome to stay.
You: And anyway... IF we agree upon anything...
Sudane Erato: hehe
You: it means that the SC could already veto us, lol
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha.
Sudane Erato: LOL!
You: hmm
You: do we have a minimum quorum on the RA?
Sudane Erato: not yet i think?
Sudane Erato: wouldn't that be part of the rules?
You: Yes, probably.
You: Nothing on the Constitution...
Sudane Erato: Sure! although I probably have everything
Sudane Erato: you must know exactly what you're going to do!
Ulrika Zugzwang: I don't think we have a minimum.
Sudane Erato: I'll be really interested to see
Ulrika Zugzwang: How should we handle it when only a fraction shows up?
You: I should be reading the notecards...
You: Yes. Well, majority rules...
Ulrika Zugzwang: Shall we just reduce the vote to whomever is present?
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Sounds good to me.
You: But we have just 2 people here, hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: Well the penguin make three.
Ulrika Zugzwang:
Sudane Erato: question? how do you turn off the fog?
You: hehe
You: I remember there is an option for that....
Ulrika Zugzwang: SHIFT-ALT-Minus
Sudane Erato: yeah, but i can't find it in Debug
You: and Sudane... I can't get the notecards from inside the penguin
Ulrika Zugzwang: But you have to have the debug menu on.
Ulrika Zugzwang: That's CTRL-ALT-D
Ulrika Zugzwang: So first CTRL-ALT-D to enable the debug menu, then ALT-SHIFT-Minus
Sudane Erato: thanks. worked
Sudane Erato: now, for the penguin?
Sudane Erato: he's got every conceivable permission enabled!
Stephen Grayson is offline
Sudane Erato: I can hand them out, of course
You: hmm
You: wait wait
You: I think I have that magic notecard dispenser script with me...
You: just one second
Sudane Erato: but with that, you have to name the card, i think?
Sudane Erato: and it only gives out one
Sudane Erato accepted your inventory offer.
You: If I'm not mistaken, Sudane, that gives out ALL notecards inside.
You: Moon Adamant uses that very same script for her poetry events, lol
You: LOL on the penguin name
Psau Mfume: free house!
Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
You: ah lol
You: hahahaha
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. It worked for me. A click gave me the cards.
You: wow, that script is OLD, still has a silly hover text
You: Can't touch the penguin myself, hmm
Sudane Erato: there, that's better
Sudane Erato: wonder why?
You: Indeed
Sudane Erato: I left the "!"
You: Ah. I know, I'm probably touching it from the wrong side or something...
You: that's it
You: it work now
Sudane Erato: Ulrika and Psau, you may want to check out the cards
You: hmm
You: I have to read those...
Ulrika Zugzwang: I've got 'em Sudane.
You: Ok, one of the notecards is basically your own suggestions, Sudane... right?
Ulrika Zugzwang: I'm reading over the prices right now.
You: The other is the tracking of auctions
Sudane Erato: yeah, it's exactly what I posted yesterday
Sudane Erato: and yes, i updated them today
Sudane Erato: the prices have gotten a bit less over-heated
You: all those are US$?
Sudane Erato: yes
Ulrika Zugzwang: Great.
You: Ok...
Sudane Erato: the real discussion topic is:...
You: Just one more question...
Sudane Erato: what might be the relation between them and an Anzere price?
You: So. Walleye actually had 5 auctions
You: For 2/3 of the whole land
You: and all in USD??
Sudane Erato: those are just the larger ones, in US$
Sudane Erato: there were many smaller ones
You: What I mean is, this shows that LL is auctioning for US$ things like 2/3 of the sims?
Ulrika Zugzwang: The prices aren't as bad as I thought they would be.
Sudane Erato: Gwyn, even whole sims
You: They're not really wonderful...
Sudane Erato: Ulrika, as I said, they're a bit down...
You: I see Walleye for, uh, 7000 US$ or so
Sudane Erato: I'm sorry I didn't start this 2 weeks ago
You: and that's 'only' 40000 sq m or so
Sudane Erato: they were selling 1/4's for $400+
You: Wait, now I'm confused
Ulrika Zugzwang: brb. Keep going. I'll catch up.
You: ok... see you ulrika!
You: so...
You: When you have 5 times Walleye listed...
You: Is that 5 different plots?
Sudane Erato: well, the bottom line is the price/per,
Sudane Erato: yes 5 different
You: Ok.
You: So the total price for Walleye.... or rather, for 40,000 sq. m
You: is around 7 or 8 K US$
You: Which is really a lot!
You: Half of Shiner... that's 5000 US$
Sudane Erato: ooh, hold on while I pull out the note.. i'm doing this from mem
You: Ok, thanks
Charlotte Gillespie is offline
Sudane Erato: no, the idea on the chart is to use each sale to get a price per m2...
You: AH
Sudane Erato: then multiply that price/per times 64000, the size of the whole sim
Sudane Erato: that's the column "If Whole Sim"
Sudane Erato: Sorry, the columns are wobbly
You: hehe yes, you can't get proper alignment on the notecards
Sudane Erato: text files are a pain to make columns
You: Ok...
Sudane Erato: so, none of the sales indicate a whole-sim-price over $1600
You: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
You: lol
You: I'm really silly, lol
You: ok ok
You: I didn't read the top line properly, right right
Sudane Erato: which is lower than its been
You: Ok, ok.
You: So *that* makes sense to me
You: You know why?
You: Because originally that was how LL thought how much they should charge for private sims
Sudane Erato: when I posted in the forum first, the price was over 3000
You: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
You: ok...
Sudane Erato: i think there was an overheated atmosphere 2 weeks ago
Sudane Erato: possibly caused by a certain land deal of "Yours Truly"
You: Hmm
You: lol
Sudane Erato: I'm just joking
You: you mean the small plot you bought for 150 US$?
You:
Sudane Erato: yep
You: ok...
Sudane Erato: Prokofy told me the next day, he had done the same thing again...
Sudane Erato: what a dimwit!
Ulrika Zugzwang:
You: hehe
Sudane Erato: i then saw other very high priced samll lots
Sudane Erato: one 2000 right near the th in Warwick (?) for 150-200
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Well it seems like we might be able to afford at least part of a sim if we can start saving now.
Sudane Erato: i think we said, and its probably important to stick with it, that we need the whole
You: yes
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. That's a lot of bread.
Ulrika Zugzwang: $$
You: And not just half of it like I proposed last week
You: Mmhmm
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Ulrika Zugzwang: We'll aim high.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I wanted to mention one other thing to you all.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I'll post it in the forums too.
Sudane Erato: maybe we should set up a contribution list
Ulrika Zugzwang: There might be a chance that we can create something even bigger than what we have now.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I was going to suggest pitching to the Lindens, the creation of an official "government" sim.
You: Hmm
Ulrika Zugzwang: It would not be M or PG -- that would be decided by those in the sim or sims.
Sudane Erato: ?
You: How do you mean?
You: Ah. A different zoning scheme?
Sudane Erato: but why government?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
FlipperPA Peregrine is offline
Ulrika Zugzwang: Self rule. We'd handle everything in 1 or 2 (or more) adjacent sims, they let us keep this piece of land.
Sudane Erato: maybe i should ask, which government?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Make it a long-term trial.
Ulrika Zugzwang: We'd go with the one we have now.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Part of the pitch would be that we have the existing infrastructure: voting tools, constitution, etc.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Just thought I'd throw that out there.
Sudane Erato: and why would the Lindens go along? after recent communications?
Ulrika Zugzwang: I think they want to experiment with self rule but are turned off by a small group of vocal individuals.
You: Hmm
Ulrika Zugzwang: I think if we made them a good offer, perhaps they'd go for it.
Sudane Erato: you really think they're interested in the self-rule idea?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Something to think about. I give it a 1:10.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I do think they are.
You: Oh yes, Sudane, they really are.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Didn't they recently hire a government liason?
You: The question is...
Ulrika Zugzwang: Is it Chris Linden?
Sudane Erato: and the obstacle to them is the "bad press"?
You: What? Really?!?
Ulrika Zugzwang: I believe so. I've contacted Haney for more information.
You: The trouble is, Haney said they weren't into 'funding' new projects...
Ulrika Zugzwang: I'll let you know if he replies.
Ulrika Zugzwang: They wouldn't need to.
Ulrika Zugzwang: We would pay, but keep this land.
Ulrika Zugzwang: With the agreement that we'd administer all the other land for them.
Sudane Erato: and what is implied in "administer"
Ulrika Zugzwang: Other pepole would buy that land but be under our jurisdiction.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Well. We'd do what we're doing now.
Sudane Erato: collect tier?
Ulrika Zugzwang: No, they'd have to do that like normal.
Ulrika Zugzwang: We'd have to handle griefing, complaints, covenants., etc.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hold elections among the citizens.
You: Ok, so that's basically proposal #1 - we make them an US$ offer for the land and pay tier
You: And in return, they don't auction off Anzere, but sell it directly to the group.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes, but it also includes the creation of "government sims"".
You: Is that is?
You: Ok.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
You: *it
You: Hmm
Sudane Erato: the problem we take off their hands are complaints, griefing, etc?
You: Ulrika, was that already announced on the forums? hehe
Sudane Erato: is that really what they want out of self-government?
Ulrika Zugzwang: I don't know. I've asked Haney to send me a contact within the Lindens to discuss this with.
Ulrika Zugzwang: They key is finding someone to bounce ideas with.
Ulrika Zugzwang: It'll take a while. Haney is slooooow.
You: Oh yes, LOL
You: haha
Ulrika Zugzwang:
Sudane Erato: hello Unhygenix!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hello.
Unhygienix Gullwing: Hallo
You: hi Unhygienix, well met again
Unhygienix Gullwing: I am und tourist
You: Tourists are most welcome
Unhygienix Gullwing: Am seeking ze...... 'ow you say?
Sudane Erato: so are we all
Unhygienix Gullwing: "Red Light District"
You: hahaha
You: this is PG land, lol
Sudane Erato: wrong address
You: Indeed, Unhygienix
Unhygienix Gullwing: So this is Neualtenburg, huh?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Just this room.
You: mm hmm, it is
Unhygienix Gullwing: It's um.....well, it's smaller than I expected
Ulrika Zugzwang: It's just 1/2 a sim.
Unhygienix Gullwing: Will it be expanding to outside the room soon?
Psau Mfume: heh
You: lol don't mind Ulrika, Unhygienix... she's teasing you, we have half of a sim, not just the room...
You: and the other half is no-build, hehe
Unhygienix Gullwing: I know, I was teasing her right back
You: lol
Ulrika Zugzwang:
You: so I'm acting silly as usual
You: Well...
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Shall we go forward with the proceedings?
Unhygienix Gullwing: !
Unhygienix Gullwing: Oh, I'm sorry
Unhygienix Gullwing: I didn't realize this was a meeting
You: fellow RA members, I feel that we can't really have a vote on this with just 2 members, worse than that, we just have one party represented here....
Unhygienix Gullwing: Take care
Ulrika Zugzwang: That's OK Unhygienix.
You: Ah, it's open to the public, lol
You: We haven't still disclosed our plans to take over the world...
You: lol
Sudane Erato: lol
You: Hmm
You: Sudane, I'm at a loss now...
You: I'm not sure if we have enough people to do some decisions
You: Pendari said that she would TRY to be around
Ulrika Zugzwang: I think we should.
Sudane Erato: Gwyn, I'm sure we haven't
You: I can wait... I have at least 'free time' in Sl until noon PST
Ulrika Zugzwang: If they don't want to show, they don't get to vote.
You: is that an official declaration of the SC, Ulrika?
Sudane Erato: i think, unfortaunetly, that we have to have a meeting with a certain number
You: Yes... we could propose a bill for that
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Although, we'd then need to define the minimum acceptable notice for a meeting.
You: We'd need at least 50% + 1 members present
Sudane Erato: perhaps at least one from each party...
You: And at least one representative of each party
You: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: What if they never show?
Ulrika Zugzwang: They could cripple the govt.
You: We have a serious problem, Ulrika
You: hehe
Sudane Erato: that is a problem
You: Well...
Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
Sudane Erato: unless we change the form of government to a monarchy
Ulrika Zugzwang: If the Clown Party had 1 member and they never showed ...
Sudane Erato: a friend of mine suggested we appoint a Kaiser
You: The Chairwoman of the RA would expell the missing members, and ask the party to designate substitutes
You: lol Sudane, take a look at one old post in the Neualtenburg forums, I want to create the Monarchist Cause, an association to promote hereditary monarchy in Neualtenburg, hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: I see.
Sudane Erato: LOL!
You: Nobody commented on that post, *sobs*
Sudane Erato: but Gwyn, I thought you were Gueen?
Ulrika Zugzwang: We actually had that planned Gwyn.
Sudane Erato: Queen
You: But I didn't expect to get elected to the RA, so I dropped the issue
Ulrika Zugzwang: I'll show you something ...
You: Yes Sudane... Head of State and Head of Church, lol
You: pontifex maximus and dictator
You: LOL
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: maybe we should carry on the meetings via the forum
Sudane Erato: the SL one
You: Hmm.
Ulrika Zugzwang gave you ulrika.paint.
You: can we do polls on the private forums at Sl Universe?
You: hmm rezzing in, Ulrika, but ty
Ulrika Zugzwang: That's our stab and creating a historical monarchy.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha.
Sudane Erato: LOL Ulrika!
You: awwww lol that is so cool!
You: hahahaha
Ulrika Zugzwang: We were thinking that everyone who was a founding member should be immortalized.
Ulrika Zugzwang:
You: lol
Ulrika Zugzwang: That's Kendra's first image.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hee hee.
Sudane Erato: commision frames, and hang them around us
You: mm hmm
You: we can have them here at the unfinished RA
You: Hang them on the walls or so...
Sudane Erato: yes
You: Drats. Ok, back to serious business for a while...
You: So.
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
You: We have a stalemate. We have 6 or 7 bills to pass
You: And just two members of the RA
You: While I think we should have a minimum of members attending...
Sudane Erato: we do, but I for one don't feel i understand the issues fully
You: The trouble is, we may NEVER have that minimum.
You: Ok, Ulrika is here to explain.
Sudane Erato: thats why I suggested a written up bill
You: Go ahead and ask
Sudane Erato: well, which is Bill #1?
Selador Cellardoor is online
You: one sec, I' loggin in to the forums...
Sudane Erato: We need to do this in a more orderly fashion
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Ulrika Zugzwang: The first one is the elimination of the 10% event tax.
You: For events. Yes.
Sudane Erato: OK, can we have a summary (sorry) of the whole finance thing, since this tax is what makes up the city's finances?
You: Ok...
Ulrika Zugzwang: Sure.
Sudane Erato: i'm not very knowledgeable about this
Ulrika Zugzwang: Currently all money is made by taxing sales and events.
You: You can get the sales figures from the Ulrika's Heim website
Ulrika Zugzwang: We have a flat 10% rate.
Sudane Erato: OK
Ulrika Zugzwang: Info is at: http://www.ulrikasheim.org/vendor
Ulrika Zugzwang: Everything is transparent.
Ulrika Zugzwang: In short, we aren't make money.
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: do we have expenses at this time?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Nope.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Just land-tier fees.
Sudane Erato: LOL
Sudane Erato: but are the land tier fees an organized expense?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Nope.
Sudane Erato: or are they just contributed by whover can?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
You: yes, they are.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I'd like to organize them.
Ulrika Zugzwang: But that's after we get people living here.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Which is another bill.
Sudane Erato: Yes, I think that would be first
Ulrika Zugzwang: And months down the road.
Sudane Erato: because, you can't go passing taxation bills without the spending plan
Ulrika Zugzwang: Our goal is to have rent and sales pay for land tier.
You: Well, currently everything done here has been for free... so we haven't paid for anything except land tier
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: you said, there is no income now?
You: There is income
You: Just no profit
You: http://www.ulrikasheim.org/vendor/?show=statistics
You: the Government has gotten L$4000
Sudane Erato: Gottcha
You: in sales tax.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. $4k.
You: But over 4 months or so...
Ulrika Zugzwang: We can use that to buy a sandwich.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha.
You: lol
You: precisely
Ulrika Zugzwang: It's 3 months.
Ulrika Zugzwang: But yes.
You: ah yes. Sorry. 3 months
Sudane Erato: will the Lindens take L$ for tier?
Ulrika Zugzwang: No.
You: Not worth it, we need to exchange it at the GOM
Ulrika Zugzwang: But we can sell money on the Gaming Open Market.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
You: So we need around, say L$ 30,000 per month or so
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
You: meaning, under the current model - only based upon sales taxes - an income on L$ 300,000 with sales.
You: It's not IMPOSSIBLE....
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: It's dang near impossible.
Sudane Erato: it probably is impossible in the current climate
Ulrika Zugzwang: That's why I think rentals might be a solution. They can be at 80%.
You: But pretty hard, when you just have 10 items for sale or so, and one accounts for about 90% of all
Sudane Erato: it seems to me that the current issue is not whether we should charge the event tax
Ulrika Zugzwang: Meaning most the revenue goes to the city.
Sudane Erato: it seems to me that the current issue is attracting income generators
You: Indeed.
You: Ulrika's bill #3 is about that...

Sudane Erato: and to do that, we have to insure the long term existence of Neualt
Sudane Erato: otherwise, who would come
Sudane Erato: the Bill relating to hosting new member events seems to me directly relevant
You: Both are related... you need to insure the long-term existence of Neualtenburg, and create a source of income
Sudane Erato: sounds like we could easy pass the no tax events bill..
You: yes...
Sudane Erato: because, it wounldn't matter, one way or the other
You: I think that's Ulrika's point.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
You: And since contest events do not get any financial support from the Lindens, anyway...
Ulrika Zugzwang: It's too much trouble and could be a disincentive.
Sudane Erato: well, thank yo for putting up with my slow comprehension...
You: Indeed.
You: lol Sudane
Ulrika Zugzwang: No problem.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Understanding is a good thing.
Sudane Erato: its what I need to grab onto something
You: Ok, I also vote for that bill to pass.
You: So, it's unanimous? hehe
Sudane Erato: I too
You: Bill #2...
Sudane Erato: yes
You: Election of new RA in Two Months
You: We discussed this earlier, that the first term of the RA should be shorter.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I have to say that Talen will not support this.
Ulrika Zugzwang: He's been against a two month term since the beginning.
You: Ah. Well. Talen should be here to vote
You: But you're right.
Sudane Erato: But Talen has neither participated in a meeting...
Sudane Erato: nor posted anything since the election
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
You: Well, Talen was part of the provisory government and was precisely working on the RA
You: I'm not against the 2 month term, neither in favour...
Ulrika Zugzwang: I also thought it would be a good time to set a deadline.
Sudane Erato: without this bill, what is the term length?
You: However, I may review my opinion if people fail to meet
Ulrika Zugzwang: To get folks thinking about the impending deadline of the city lease.
Ulrika Zugzwang: There is no term limit.
Ulrika Zugzwang: We thought we'd work it out.
You: Uhm
Sudane Erato: well, the next election?
You: Wait, checking on the Constitution....
Ulrika Zugzwang: Remember, we took out the length of terms.
You: hmm
Ulrika Zugzwang: Because of all the controversy surrounding them.
Ulrika Zugzwang: So this is something that should will go in the constitution.
Sudane Erato: well, we should pass some kind of length
Ulrika Zugzwang: *should
You: Hm, not necessarily
You: Ok.
Sudane Erato: the real problem is participation...
You: We have three options...
You: One, pass the bill
You: Since we can always change it
You: two, vote to amend the Constitution
You: Since we have the power
You: Three, ignore the bill
Alex Pennyfeather is offline
You: And postpone the issue to a time where we have more people here.
You: Remember, the Constitution *says* we should meet once per week in-world at least!
Sudane Erato: we must deal; with this participation issue
You: So, as Chairwoman of the RA, I hereby declare that we should gently remind our fellow members at the RA that they're failing on their civic duties (
Sudane Erato: agreed...
Ulrika Zugzwang:
You: hehe
Sudane Erato: but we should do it in a way calculated to get everyone participating
You: Ok, I'll post on that
Sudane Erato: whatever system that might require
Ulrika Zugzwang: Maybe we should create an "RA" group so you can IM among yourselves.
Sudane Erato: maybe different than originally imagined
You: Dragging people by their hands and feet is perhaps too much...
Ulrika Zugzwang: That way you could announce things with it?
You: Hm
You: Not a bad idea, Ulrika, but the problem is not having them know about the RA meetings, but actually atending.
Ulrika Zugzwang: It would also allow you to discuss things privately as a group here.
Sudane Erato: yes, an IM group would be good for communication
You: But ok...
Sudane Erato: and security, as Chandra ahas suggested
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. The attendance could be a problem.
You: Bill # 1 A, let's create a RA group
Ulrika Zugzwang: I'm just worried that people didn't know about it.
You: Hmm
Sudane Erato: when they recivedan IM, they will
You: perhaps I wasn't clear enough on my emails & posts...?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Or maybe we should IM people several days in advance.
You: Oh, ok. That sounds good as well
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh. You sent an email with this date and time?
Sudane Erato: yes, that too
Ulrika Zugzwang: That should be sufficient if you did.
You: Hmm, yes...
Ulrika Zugzwang: That's even better than a group.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Well gosh. If you sent an email, I say that's good enough.
Ulrika Zugzwang:
You: I wonder now... since you're saying that, you were on the list as well, Ulrika...
Sudane Erato: it obviously didn't work
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha!
You: So probably my email didn't go through?
You: Drats.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I'm a scatter brain. Don't count on me.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Let me check my email. ....
You: let me check my outbox...
You: just one second.
Ulrika Zugzwang: You sent one but it didn't have the date and time in it.
You: Hmm
Sudane Erato: can we not count on members to check the SL forum?
Sudane Erato: just members, mind you
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hmm. I'm a forum junky so it's hard for me to say.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I think members of the RA should check the forums for sure though.
You: Drats, You're right. My email was just to remind people to look at the SL Universe forum
Sudane Erato: but there, you said, meeting today
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
You: I *thought* I wrote the date & time on the email, but I didn't.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I guess an email in the future with time and date would be sufficient.
You: So people probably got the email, thought about going on the forum, but never did see the date & time.
You: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: We should also have a rule that those who don't show don't get a vote.
You: I'll do that next time...
Sudane Erato: with respose required
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. That'll fix it up.
Sudane Erato: sorry to be authoritarian
You: Ulrika, that is implicit in the Constitution... it says, simple majority
Sudane Erato: but surely there must be a quorum?
You: Section 6 - Legislative Process and Veto A vote in the RA is a simple majority vote of representative seats. Constitutional amendments require a 2/3 vote.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Excellent.
You: Nothing is mentioned in the COnstitution.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Well, we also need to keep this thing running.
You: But yes, i also think there should be a quorum
You: However, since we haven't passed a bill on that yet...
Sudane Erato: Usually, a quorum definition would be a rule
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
You: Indeed.
You: As said, I propose as a rule that we should have 50% + 1 members (ie. at least 4) and at least one of each party
You: However we're completely out of order, lol
You: Bill # 2 is supposed to be about the next election day.
Sudane Erato: since we don't even meet that rule!
Sudane Erato: may I suggest...
Sudane Erato: extraordinary times require extraordinary measures
Sudane Erato: that we appoint Ulrika and Kendra as members-at-large
You: Hmm, I suggest that we discuss that AFTER we vote upon the other bills
You: And noooo we can't do *that* hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha. That's a bad idea.
Sudane Erato:
You: That's technically impossible, Sudane.
Sudane Erato: oh well, I tried
Ulrika Zugzwang: I can hear the squealing now.
Sudane Erato: we need numbers!!!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Good idea though.
You: Both hold offices at other branches of government
You: Dangerous
You: Not good
Ulrika Zugzwang: Well, let's instead make this a meeting about the RA and put the bill off until next time.
You: Ok
Sudane Erato: guys, this is the frontier
Ulrika Zugzwang: I'm in no rush. I'll work on the properties and buildings for now.
You: I second that. So Bill # 2 is postponed
Sudane Erato: law into our own hands
You: lol Sudane
Sudane Erato: OK, i agree
You: Ok, can we move unto #3?
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Sudane Erato: OK
Sudane Erato: dfine please
Ulrika Zugzwang: Rental units. Can we have them and what cut do land lords get?
You: Bill: Rental Unit Cost and Percentage
Ulrika Zugzwang: Also, how much should we rent them for?
You: And what part should be rented at all?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: this is all very complex
Ulrika Zugzwang: It is.
You: Can I rent the church? It's my favourite building
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha.
You: Ok, seriously now...
You: Neualtenburg has residential Viertels
You: So I think those are the only ones available for rental.
Ulrika Zugzwang: (The church does have it's own set of dwellings that belong to it by the town square.)
You: Ah yes. True, ulrika
You: I still haven't occupied a house, lol
Ulrika Zugzwang: Those are yours if you want them either to rent or to live in.
You: btw my event yesterday was an utter failure, no one appeared
You: *sigh*
Ulrika Zugzwang: Drat.
You: I posted too late...
Ulrika Zugzwang: You need some pose balls.
You: lol
Sudane Erato: what was the event?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Pious ones.
You: hmm the usual stuff, but a new topic to discuss
You: The only person willing to attend was a very good friend of mine, but she was already tipsy and tired (it was the day of her SL collaring cerimony, which for the BSDM group is like a wedding)
You: ah well
You: Ok, back to rental units...
Sudane Erato: Gwyn, please, let me know
You: How much sq. m. do we have on the Viertels?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Let me check ...
You: thank you Ulrika
You: The problem will be, we cannot make a profit there...
Ulrika Zugzwang: About 1500 m^2 in each give or take 200 m^2.
Sudane Erato: times how many?
You: If I remember Ulrika's calculations, we don't have enough sq. m. available to pay for tier using current market prices
You: Which would be, uh, perhaps L$ 1200/week for that
Ulrika Zugzwang: Checking ...
Ulrika Zugzwang: We have about 5 of those.
You: Ah.
You: so 7500 sq m?
Ulrika Zugzwang: I'd like to bring them online 1 at a time.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
You: Sure, it makes sense.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Each structure has about 100 m^2 per floor of space.
You: Ah.
You: Wait
You: that sounds good!
You: Let me see if I can still add things up...
Sudane Erato: for a total of 1500 m2?
You: That's 7500 sq, m
Sudane Erato: each?
You: 5 Viertels, each 1500, so each 15 houses of 100 sq m
Sudane Erato: oh!
You: total, 75 plots with 100 sq m
Sudane Erato: my head spins with this...
Ulrika Zugzwang: Let's see. We have 5 quarters at 1536, 1632, 1280, 750, and 1000 m^2
You: wow
Sudane Erato: sorry, but i need to look on paper
You: that's 6350 or so
Ulrika Zugzwang: There are a total of 35 structures.
You: 35? hm
Ulrika Zugzwang: +/- a few.
You: ok, so they're not equal
You: Ok
You: fine
Ulrika Zugzwang: Each structure is identical.
Sudane Erato: what are typical leases for SL?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Each viertel is different.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I'm not sure!
You: around 100 L$/week for 120 sq m or so
Sudane Erato: so we need to check that out
You: depends
Ulrika Zugzwang: I don't know the market rate. Let me check a post I made, where I asked some folks...
You: Ok...
Ulrika Zugzwang: I got a lot of replies! Let me read that now.
You: Well, while on IM, I've just rented a 2048 sq. m. plot for L$500/week, but it's a very special price, way below the current market rate!
You: So that doesn't count

Sudane Erato: basically, sounds like 1 L$/m2
Sudane Erato: per week
You: It's slightly less
You: But ok, we can use that figure
Ulrika Zugzwang: Random Unsung (Prokofy) suggests $250 per month.
You: Say, since we're such nice guys here, lol
Sudane Erato: OK, so 4/month
You: $250 for what?
You: 100 sq. m?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hmm.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: $4 L$/mon for each m2... times 7500 m2
You: Well, that makes sense, yes
Ulrika Zugzwang: So we should go $100 per week?
You: yes, Ulrika.
Ulrika Zugzwang: That's a bit high but we have a special place.
You: That sums up rather nicely....
You: Around 24,000 L$ per month... almost enough to pay for tier!
Ulrika Zugzwang: so 100 * 35 = 3,500 per month!
You: No...
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oops.
Sudane Erato: L$ 30,000 per month by my numbers
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha!
You: Right, more like 30,000
You: Since total space is 6350 sq m or so
Ulrika Zugzwang: It's L$100 * 35 houses * 4 weeks/month = 56,000?
Sudane Erato: sorry, i was using 7500
You: lollllll
Ulrika Zugzwang: Crdu.
Ulrika Zugzwang: BAH!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Let me do that again.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha.
You: hehe indeed
Ulrika Zugzwang: L$100 * 35 houses * 4 wk/mo = L$14,000
Ulrika Zugzwang: There.
Ulrika Zugzwang: That's good dough!
You: That's fine, but that only accounts for 3500 sq m
You: What happened to the rest of the space?
You: Streets and infrastructure?
Ulrika Zugzwang: In a lease, that's L$56 in 4 months - 15 times what we usually get by tax.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
You: Ok
You: *sigh*
Ulrika Zugzwang: I'll work on increasing density.
You: So, still slightly below what we need for pay the whole tier...
You: Hmm, it's pretty dense right now, hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: It will require a complete rebuilding of each district one at a time.
You: yikes
Ulrika Zugzwang: It's OK.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
Ulrika Zugzwang: I'll one per week or so.
You: well, if you say so...
Ulrika Zugzwang: So, what kind of cut does the land-lord get?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
You: well...
You: That's a tough one
Sudane Erato: the city is the landlord, no?
Ulrika Zugzwang: The city owns the land but the land lord provides a service by maintaining the land.
You: Well, actually, members contributing tier...
You: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. That too Gwyneth.
You: Actually, my feeling is that they should get 100%
Ulrika Zugzwang: The person?
Ulrika Zugzwang: The landlord I mean?
You: Uh, the group of tier-contributing members. Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh yes.
You: Split among them according to the percentage of tier they hold.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I was hoping to use this L$ as a way for us to afford our new home as well.
You: I know, Ulrika
Sudane Erato: that should be temproary, until the city budget pays the tier
You: Ah. Hmm
Ulrika Zugzwang: It would come to about US$200.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Not too bad.
You: Hmm
You: Ok.
You: Let me suggest this...
You: Unless we have an alternative option, we'd like to pool ALL money into buying our sim
Sudane Erato: yes
You: Afterwards, landlords get 100% of the income generated from rents
Sudane Erato: then who pays the tier?
You: This means an extra effort to the group members who have payed for tier...
You: *paid
Sudane Erato: who pays the tier ongoing?
You: Well, Sudane, you mean 'now' or 'after we buy the sim'?
Sudane Erato: after
You: A generous group of members right now...
You: And probably the same generous group afterwards, but, this time, they'll actually get enough money to pay for their tier
You: Meaning that we should duplicate the available area...
Sudane Erato: ?
You: for renting...
You: That will give near to L$ 30 K, or enough to pay for tier.
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
You: (of course, I'm assuming that ALL houses would be rented, lol)
Sudane Erato: Long term, it CANNOT be generous members who pay the tier..
You: Yes.
You: Long term, the rentals would pay for tier.
Sudane Erato: it must be a responsibility of the government
Ulrika Zugzwang: I have to let you two know, that I have to leave in about 15 minutes.
You: So do I, lol
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Ulrika Zugzwang:
Sudane Erato: mee too
Ulrika Zugzwang: We did bring up a lot of new issues though.
You: Well Sudane, the alternative would be... pooling all the money together... putting a L$30 K budget for the landlords... and see how we can extract L$ from people
Ulrika Zugzwang: I'll try and capture a lot of them in the forums, to spread out the work.
You: Hmm, just 1 bill approved, 1 postponed, and 1 discussed.
You: We had a bill # 1 A.... what was it again?
Ulrika Zugzwang: We also talked a lot about the RA as well.
You: Ah sure.
Ulrika Zugzwang: #1 A was the RA group.
Ulrika Zugzwang: If you two can summarize the current bill discussions, I'll summarize from the SC standpoint the problems with attendance and what to do with voting when members are absent.
Ulrika Zugzwang: It'll be the Constitution Discussion #3.
You: Ok
Sudane Erato: sounds good to me
You: Right, the RA group, yes
Sudane Erato: i'd like a summary, so i can understand the issues better
You: Well Sudane, I'll try to get you an email on that...
Ulrika Zugzwang: Also, I wanted to say not to be too rough on those who didn't show. They donate a lot of tier.
You: I mean on the transcript...
You: yes, ulrika
You: It will be more a plea and not a grumbling
Sudane Erato: i feel we need understanding
Sudane Erato: if people are donating tier..
Sudane Erato: but not participating...
Sudane Erato: what is underlying their interest?
You: Drats. I was also hoping we could come up on a 'citizen's tax' for the non/contributing members of tier
Sudane Erato: hehe
You: (like myself!)
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: and me
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ah! That's an interesting thought.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Maybe you should submit that as a bill.
You: I will.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I've been thinking of a way to remove nonproductive members.
Ulrika Zugzwang: We even had a small group of members that I didn't know existed who jumped in just for the vote.
You: Should have done before. However, we can always propose new bills inside the RA meetings.
You: Ah. Right
Ulrika Zugzwang: I think they were added by Talen at the last minute.
You: lol Ulrika!
You: hahahaha
Ulrika Zugzwang:
Sudane Erato: /no
You: well, that's not so bad, really.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Naw. It didn't affect the outcome of the election.
Sudane Erato: any way to get new members, we should
You: That's why the 'citizen's tax' is a good idea
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Maybe we could have a trial period for new members so we don't scare them away.
You: So, new citizens just popping up from nowhere...
You: They will have either to pay that tax, contribute tier... or go out of the Neualtenbrug group
You: Hmm
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
You: Ok
Ulrika Zugzwang: Just a thought.
You: Time for me to go
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK!
You: Can we just say bye bye?
Sudane Erato: we have to make a "benefit" for being in Neualt!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Thanks for letting me hang out.
You: Ah, benefit
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
You: Being hated by everybody in SL, etc
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha!
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: That's benefit enough.
Sudane Erato: no
You: And you're welcome, ulrika & Psau, as said, these meetings are supposed to be public...
Sudane Erato: yes, thank you!
Sudane Erato: can we suggest next week, same time?
You: Well Sudane, if you're willing to contribute tier, this means we'll manage the land and rent it out, keep it free from griefers, etc. and thus make your investment a piece of cake to handle
Sudane Erato:
Ulrika Zugzwang: Good idea.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Almost time for the Thinker's meeting Gwyn.
Sudane Erato: I'm hoping to contribute tier, once I get my personal land affairs straightened out
You: And yes. Unless someone votes against it, we'll have the RA meetings same place, same hour
You: Indeed, Ulrika, good guess
Sudane Erato: good
Sudane Erato: well, my best to all!
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ciao everyone.
You: Ok, cheers to all and thanks for attending, hehe
You: I can;t forget to take a copy *this time*
Psau Mfume: take care everyone =)
You: I hope you didn't fall asleep, Psau, lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Psau Mfume: naw, was sorting my inventory =)
Sudane Erato: lol
Psau Mfume: it's still a mess =(

You: hello Roberta Always punctual!
You: Hello Sudane!
Sudane Erato: hi Gwyn
You: Hmm it seems that we're not many - again.
Sudane Erato: thanks for the draw distance tip!
Sudane Erato: it really works!
You: That's right...
You: I've been using it ever since, Sudane...
You: And hello Roberta!
Sudane Erato: hi Roberta
You: btw, do any of you have either Talen Morgan or Christiano's calling card?
Sudane Erato: no, i don't
You: I have neither... wasn't able to IM them, just email...
Sudane Erato: don;t people check their email!?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
You: Some don't....
You: LOL!
Sudane Erato: speak of the devil
Talen Morgan: greetings all
You: Talen DOES read the mail, hehe
Sudane Erato: hello!
You have offered to exchange calling cards with Talen Morgan.
You have exchanged calling cards with Talen Morgan.
You: This time, I'll offer to trade cards with you, Talen
Roberta Dalek: back
You: Let me add you to the 'spam group' hehe
Talen Morgan: not sure if Pen will be here
Sudane Erato: she still have family in?
Roberta Dalek: I have several email accounts - the best way to contact me really is by IM
You: Let's wait a bit
You: Well... I'll try to contact you all on IM *and* email
Talen Morgan: I'm thinking Sunday might not be the best of days to hold meetings....for many its the only family time they have
Sudane Erato: what other time would be good for all?
Talen Morgan: Thats something we'll have to figure out if we can get everyone in one spot at the same time
Sudane Erato: hehe
You: That's a good point.
Roberta Dalek: any day - but musn't be too late - its 6pm now where I am
You: Same here, Roberta...
Sudane Erato: its 1 in NY
Sudane Erato: great time for me
You: Well... we can start by thinking what is better, workdays or weekdays?
Sudane Erato: workdays are ok if its between 3 and 6 GT
Sudane Erato: PM
Roberta Dalek: well 3 is 11pm here
Sudane Erato: otherwise it s tough for those of us who work in offices
Talen Morgan: sounds like weekends would be better due to the different countries involved
Sudane Erato: yeah, thats the trouble with world-wide scheduling
Roberta Dalek: could be fun if we ever get someone from Australia or New Zealand
You: indeed
Sudane Erato: oh no!
You: Well, I have no problem with 3 PM PST on any workday.
You: Except perhaps for Friday, but even so...
Sudane Erato: yes, fri is less good
Roberta Dalek: I can't guarantee that I'd be able to make a meeting from 11pm-1am at all times - as sometimes I fall asleep before then
You: aww
Sudane Erato: hehe, me too
Sudane Erato: lucky i'm further west!
Talen Morgan: well there are a few possibilities...as long as each party is represented then we can go back to our prospective parties and discuss the meeting and perhaps the actual voting on bills can be done via website like the election votes
Sudane Erato: yes, that had been one idea
Sudane Erato: i would support it
You: Hmm
Roberta Dalek: but peole might not hear all the arguments
Talen Morgan: it seems like its the only way time wise that would be workable
You: Yes. I'd prefer it the other way round...
You: Discuss IRL, vote on SL
Talen Morgan: we will keep minutes of each meeting and they can read the full discussion
You: Well... we also have the option of doing everything on the forums.
Sudane Erato: the live meetings are definitely the problem pooint
You: However, I really think that, in spite of all the 'problems' of in-world meetings, you can get faster discussions here.
You: We could have a compromise of holding every week the meeting at a different time slot...
You: so we would have half the people on one week, and the other half on the next week
Talen Morgan: but there is still the very good possibility that not all will show up
You: Yes.
Sudane Erato: Gwyn, i think that would make for a very difficult process
Sudane Erato: dis-jointed
Roberta Dalek: may be the answer is to find out why people didn't attend rather than presume it is the time
You: Ok. Hmm
Sudane Erato: good point
You: Yes, I'll think we should do that.
Talen Morgan: real life intervenes will be the answer
You: Keep the meetings for now at Sunday, 10 AM PST
Sudane Erato: maybe
You: Ask people why they can't attend...
Roberta Dalek: I say keep at the same time and ask people why they didn't attend
You: And try to fit it on a different time slot.
You: Yes, roberta, lol
Roberta Dalek: I didn't attend the last one cos I didn't know about it, for example
You: That was entirely my fault, I do apologise...
You: I have a transcript... still 'raw'
Talen Morgan: I say keep the meetings at this time slot ....we are supposed to keep minutes anyway...deliver the minutes to all members and have the actual vote on the website
You: I'll give the notecard to both you and Talen...
Roberta Dalek: for accountability
Roberta Dalek: we need to be publically publishing minutes etc
Talen Morgan: yes
Sudane Erato: hehe that will be a long post!
You: Hmm Talen... the *only* reason why I don't like that, is that it makes these meetings rather pointless... we could just discuss the issues on the forums
Roberta Dalek: no parliament meets in secret
Roberta Dalek accepted your inventory offer.
Sudane Erato: but i don't think they should be edited
You: Ah. Ok
You: lol the problem is all the annoying 'XXX is online' or 'SL Exchange delivered object YYY'
Talen Morgan: it wouldnt make these meetings pointless but the fact is I doubt there will ever be full attendance here
You: I duobt that as well, Talen... *sigh*
Roberta Dalek: a discussion on the forum would involve more than the senate
Sudane Erato: can't you opt those out of chat?
You: I wish I could.
You: And Roberta, we have private forums for that...
You: Or we could have.
Roberta Dalek: yes - but we still need to tell the wider community what is going on - even if it is a notecard giver or library in neuberg
Roberta Dalek: in fact I favour a library
Sudane Erato: Roberta, i think those are really good ideas
You: And Talen... I meant 'pointless' just in the way that this would be a place 'just for talk' but not for making decisions. So I'd say people would skip attending in-world meetings and conveniently browse the forums and do the voting there...
Talen Morgan: I thought we spoke earlier of having a notecard giver outside the meeting chamber
You: But I may be wrong....
Sudane Erato: a LOT of people don't use the forums
Roberta Dalek: I agree
You: Ok, I also agree on the notecard dispenser
Roberta Dalek: A public record in world is better
Sudane Erato: and the forums are not a part of SL
Talen Morgan: I think we should use the same method for voting as we did for the election ...it will be more detailed
Sudane Erato: a notecard giver is part of SL
Sudane Erato: even if people don't use it
You: Hmm Talen, so a double system, where you authenticate yourself in-world but do the voting off-world?
Sudane Erato: sure would be nice if we could do it all in-world
Talen Morgan: does matter where the vote takes place as long as the voting is done
You: Not really... just as proceedings go... I feel like there is 'waste of time' meeting in-world if all decisions are done off-world (by voting)
You: I mean, what's the point in meeting then? Even if we have the minutes... you could vote without ever reading them.
Talen Morgan: then set up the kiosk in world to vote and the website gives the results
You: Ah.
You: Well yes, that's accountability! Yes, I agree with such a device.
Sudane Erato: yes
You: But still the question remains... would the kiosk be here in the senate, and you would be able to vote only when we have our meetings...
You: Or will people be able to use the kiosk even if they never attended the meetings?
Roberta Dalek: I presume the point about kiosk voting would be to enable those to vote who can't attend the meeting
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
You: ok
Roberta Dalek: so the question is should you be able to vote if you didn't attend?
Talen Morgan: the kiosk would be here in the senate and hopefully it will be used during an alloted time frame....the meetings should be used to discuss the issues the vote is the vote no matter when it happens
You: Well, I propose that we submit that as a bill and vote upon it
Talen Morgan: every member votes
Sudane Erato: it seems that the natural right of vote does not necessarily include the requirement to attend
You: Well indeed, Sudane.
Roberta Dalek: but irl you can only vote in parliament if you are there
You: That's my point, and that's why I don't like the idea very much...
You: However... I think we should vote upon it, lol
Roberta Dalek: I propose that we find out why people can't attend first
Talen Morgan: in real life parliment member have a duty and it is their job to be there....this isn't real life and many of us have other responcibilities
You: Ok...
Roberta Dalek: so we have some information on which to make a decision
Talen Morgan: it doesnt matter why people cant attend ...real life will prevent us all from attending at one time or another...
You: Ah well... Talen, that's relative... think of Neualtenburg as your local club, not as the Congress or Senate. Then it makes sense. You attend your club's official meetings whenever you have time, and vote when you're present...
Sudane Erato: in the US Senate, you don;t have to attend the debate, you just have to physicvally present to vote
Roberta Dalek: same in the uk
You: Yes, most countries are like that.
Talen Morgan: you dont have to be present to vote in the senate ...there are various circumstances when a senator can be absent and still vote
Talen Morgan: either way we are a very small group and every vote should count
Sudane Erato: perhaps closely defined circumstances
You: However, clubs, local associations, and even some small-scale assemblies, where people do not work 'full time', function like that... you have to attend to discuss & vote...
Sudane Erato: the kiosk could be here all week
Sudane Erato: and that would meet the "present" requirement
Talen Morgan: I agree with that
Roberta Dalek: Ok - I strongly agree that it *shouldn't* be on any forum
You: But not the 'attend' requirement
You: Ok
You: At least that's unanimous, then? No voting on forums/web sites? All voting is done in-world, regardless of the possibility of tying up the kiosk with a Web page?
Talen Morgan: yes
Roberta Dalek: yes
Sudane Erato: yes
You: LOL, that was unanimous
Sudane Erato:
You: The next issue is, for how long should the kiosk be available for voting?
You: One week? (ie. between meetings)
Sudane Erato: sounds good
You: Just one day or a few hours?
Talen Morgan: I also think that the kiosk should show to all the members ( somehow) who voted what as if we were voting during the meetings
Sudane Erato: no
You: Or just during the meetings?
Sudane Erato: no, all week, and i think Talen's point is good
Talen Morgan: the kiosk should be available for voting for 5 days...the business week perhaps
Roberta Dalek: yes - voting shouldn't be secret
You: Makes sense, if the voting is never 'secret'.
You: Ok.
Roberta Dalek: but should close before the next meeting so that results are available
Talen Morgan: yes
You: Ok, Roberta.
Sudane Erato: yes
You: Well, for the record, I disagree, but I'm outumbered 3:1, so that bill will pass
Roberta Dalek: the meeting should then start with the results of the voting
You: We'll have a voting machine, and it will be available the whole week for voting...
Talen Morgan: yes
Talen Morgan: old business then new business
Sudane Erato: who will make it?
You: Right! So we can close the meeting for today, since we need the kiosk for voting for the next bills, LOL
Talen Morgan: we can see if the election kiosk can be subverted for our purpose
Sudane Erato: LLOL!
Roberta Dalek: the minutes of the meeting should include who voted for what - as this will enable the electorate to decide who they wish to re-elect
You: Hmm I guess that it is a possibility, Talen...
You: But it needs some changes...
Sudane Erato: yes
You: Agreed Roberta.
You: The changes are...
You: 1) No secret voting
You: 2) Several votes at the same time
You: 3) Notecards with the bills, before the RA member votes
You: 4) Transactions of the meetings.
Sudane Erato: yes!
You: Well, minutes of the last meeting...
Sudane Erato: notecards for the biils
You: yes.
Sudane Erato: the only question i have is regarding the secret votes
You: Yes?
Talen Morgan: it should be one notecard for each bill and each bill should have a number ...to keep things uniform
You: Agreed, Talen...
Sudane Erato: that was an issue discussed extensively in the forums before the first election
Roberta Dalek: yes - and the library should keep a copy of all bills
Talen Morgan: agreed
Sudane Erato: sometimes an issue might require secrecy
You: Hmm
Roberta Dalek: can you think of an example?
You: That's a tough one, Sudane. yes. An example would be nice.
Sudane Erato: the example used by Ulrika was regarding the possible purchase of land by Neualt
You: Well...
You: One thing is a 'secret discussion'
Sudane Erato: if it were known our intentions
You: We're doing that right now.
You: The other thing is a 'voting'
You: That should be public...
Sudane Erato: Ah, perhaps
Talen Morgan: I think that issue falls under a general category wheras it is more of a group decission not necessarily a political one
You: I'm not 100% sure of that myself, lol
Roberta Dalek: agree talen
You: Yes, something like that, Talen...
Talen Morgan: land is plentiful and we don't need to be secretive about it in fear that someone will try to jack us...
Sudane Erato: it is plentiful if we plan to buy new land...
Roberta Dalek: the principle of open, transparent and accountable governence is a higher priority
Sudane Erato: but that is only one option
Roberta Dalek: the nitty gritty of buying land isn't really just a matter for the senate
Sudane Erato: but any decision must have the support of the system
Sudane Erato: not just a few leaders
Talen Morgan: the real issue regarding land is what we are going to do....when it comes time to do whatever we decide then we just do it
Roberta Dalek: the senate can delegate the discussions for Foo Bar
Sudane Erato: that's why perhaps it is a matter for the seante
You: No, but technically at least it should be our responsability to propose and vote upon a solution.
Roberta Dalek: delegate to Foo is what I meant
You: I agree with delegation, of course...
Sudane Erato: what is Foo Bar?
You: lol, just delegate to 'someone'
Talen Morgan: considering that the land involves everyone and many tiers are donated it is a community decision
Roberta Dalek: meaning a n other/j doe in this case
You: Ah, you raise a very serious point, Talen...
Sudane Erato: yes, that is the point
You: Any suggestions how we should handle it?
You: There is no provision in the Constitution - yet - for a referendum...
Talen Morgan: and we still need to figure out the best course of action which most likely will be buying new land as I can't see the lindens selling us this land
You: But we *could* discuss a few options, and suggest that the whole community votes for it.
Talen Morgan: true
You: hmm
Sudane Erato: a very difficult dilemma
You: Oh, yes...
Sudane Erato: bcause whatever the community decision
Sudane Erato: there will be individuals who will seek to gain
Roberta Dalek: we are still responsible for sorting it out
Sudane Erato: true
You: I agree with you both...
Talen Morgan: not really....considering what we have done so far I see it as an easy thing to deal with...I'm sure we could get a sim if we wanted very easily
Roberta Dalek: if the community votes for X, which then doesn't work we need to allow the continuation of the project
Talen Morgan: honestly it will fall to those who have donated tier ....these people will be responsible as well as other who donate in doing what is needed
You: Yuo mean a private sim, or a mainland sim, Talen?
Talen Morgan: either
You: Ok, the issue with a private sim is that there is only one owner.
Sudane Erato: in previous discussions, there has been a very great sentiment to stay here
Talen Morgan: a mainland sim would make more sense
You: yes Sudane
You: And yes, talen
Roberta Dalek: Agree a mainland sim would be better
Roberta Dalek: but staying in Anzere may not be possible
Talen Morgan: theres no reason to stay here. we can never own all the land and the Lindens won't sell to us outright
You: Unless, of course, the Lindens change the way the private sims work, but I guess that's not under discussion right now...
Sudane Erato: Talen, perhaps i agree...
Talen Morgan: you can buy a private sim as a group
Sudane Erato: but there is a great deal of feeling to stay here
Roberta Dalek: the argument against moving is rebuilding, the argument against staying is that we may end up with random parcels without the room to expand
Talen Morgan: one person is still responcible for the tier though but the group can all work the land
You: You can, talen? But who'll pay for it?
You: Ok.
You: Ah
Talen Morgan: hopefully it will pay for itself...you only need to bring in 50k lindens amonth to pay tier
You: Roberta, I think that trying to buy all the land here from public auctions is almost impossible, it needs too much coordination, UNLESS we could convince the Lindens NOT to parcel out the terrain.
You: However, Ulrika pointed out that Haney told her that LL *will* parcel it out.
Roberta Dalek: I don't think they will want to do us a special favour
Talen Morgan: the lindens wont deal direct as they will see it as not being fair
Roberta Dalek: so - if they will parcel it out then we can't stay here
Sudane Erato: do the lindens care about "fair"?
Talen Morgan: they care about the appearance of fair
You: Well, Talen, that is the common 'feeling', but the truth is, we don't have an official answer to that. Just our own 'feelings' based upon past dealings with the Lindens.
Talen Morgan: trust me the Lindens will do exactly what I said.....
You: And I think so, roberta. If this gets parcelled out, there is almost no chance for us to get it back.
Roberta Dalek: we need to know 100% whether they will parcel it out - if they will (as Haney said) then we need to find another mainland siom
You: And yes, talen, I'll give you a 90% confidence on that
Roberta Dalek: so we can rebuild
Sudane Erato: hehe
Talen Morgan: you can buy a sim and have it attached to the mainland
Sudane Erato: its still private, right?
You: The 10% is a chance that they react unpredictably to our arguments But it's a very small chance.
Talen Morgan: yes
You: Ah. I like that idea.
You: Because we can ask them to replicate the terrain here...
Sudane Erato: can an alt own a private sim?
Talen Morgan: it is just attached to the mainland
Talen Morgan: yes
You: So, the rebuilding would be very easy.
Talen Morgan: anyone or group can own a sim or many sims
Sudane Erato: sO uLRIKA'S BANKER ALT COULD OWN THE SIM
You: Ah
Sudane Erato: sorry
Talen Morgan: we can even have seasons then as we can change the terrain
You: Yes, that's the question.
Talen Morgan: yes
Roberta Dalek: that would be good - as we could guarantee that they wouldn't sell it
You: lol seasons, hehe
Sudane Erato: very nice. i would love seasons
Talen Morgan: snow all the time is dpressin
You: Hmm Talen & Sudane... that sounds about the 'best' suggestion so far
Sudane Erato: LOL

Talen Morgan: a sim would cost 1k US up front and I think we could get that easily
Sudane Erato: yes, i think we could
You: yes, as I said once, I can donate US$500, no problem.
Talen Morgan: basically 250k lindens
You: And there wouldn't be a question of tier
Roberta Dalek: I live on disability benefit so I couldn't donate money - only time
Talen Morgan: and ulrikas idea of a casino would definately help with tier and traffic
You: oh, no problem, Roberta
You: Agreed Talen...
Sudane Erato: Gwyn, why no question of tier?
Roberta Dalek: I've offered to host events - like a re-run of my Kraftwerk event
You: Ah, what I meant, Sudane, is that private sims don't have tier 'tecnically'
You: So Uma Bauhaus just needs to pay the Lindens 195 USD every month
Sudane Erato: i see
Talen Morgan: yes
You: But the private sim does not count towards tier.
Roberta Dalek: which she should get from taxes
You: Precisely, Roberta.
Roberta Dalek: if we sort outselves out
Sudane Erato: but individuals could no longer contribute tier?
Talen Morgan: and we only need 50k lindens to meet that 195
Roberta Dalek: they wouldn't need to
You: There would be no need...
You: Unless we'd want to 'expand' into the mainland, lol
Talen Morgan: no you cant contribute tier to a sim
You: Actually, this would be much fairer upon the nice people who are donating tier right now.
Talen Morgan: its one property individually owned
You: Yes, talen...
You: Hmm, the more I think about that, the more I like it
Roberta Dalek: me too
Sudane Erato: yes, perhaps
Roberta Dalek: it works on an economic level
Talen Morgan: with rentals , taxes, and a possible casino 50k a month is very easy to attain
You: We can even rename the sim to be 'Neualtenburg'
Sudane Erato: but, i strongly feel we must talk with Ulrika and Kendra about this
You: Yes
Talen Morgan: we will talk with all about this
Talen Morgan: but it will be a group decision
You: Ah, well... this is one of those things that should be 'voted' using the new model.
Roberta Dalek: But this does seem to be the way forward
Sudane Erato: of course
You: I mean, we can vote our suggestion...
Sudane Erato: yes
You: And eventually do a 'referendum' thingie.
Roberta Dalek: more sensible than trying to buy anzere piecemeal
You: What about timings?
Talen Morgan: I dont think it warrants a vote....if parties are interested in putting up the funds to buy a sim and we are in agreement that a sim is warranted then we should do it
You: Ok Talen. I agree.
Roberta Dalek: we don't have to wait until the 4 months is up to move
Sudane Erato: no, there must be a vote, i think
You: My thoughts exactly, Roberta.
Roberta Dalek: but obviously the cost starts from when we move
Talen Morgan: no...but we should use those four months
You: The sooner, the better, because I really would like to concentrate on other things ...
Roberta Dalek: but we need to build on the new sim in the 4 months
You: Well, the private sim CAN be a replica of this one.
Roberta Dalek: there is no point in building new things in anzere
You: In that case, we can build stuff here, and just ask the Lindens to do a copy & paste
Talen Morgan: we should use the free resources we have now to generate income to help with the sim if thats what gets decided
You: That makes sense, talen.
Sudane Erato: or we can do a copy and paste
Roberta Dalek: we need a casino and a community centre/arts centre to host events
You: btw the MoMA is looking fantastic...
Talen Morgan: casino is easy...I already own 2 and have all the games necessary
Sudane Erato: Ulrika is working hard on it
Talen Morgan: I can give them to ulrikas alt to use
You: But most events I've hosted (besides the ones at the Church and the restaurant) have been at the 'empty area' by the Spital...
Sudane Erato: great
Roberta Dalek: we need to decide whether we want to do house rentals whilst things are up in the air
You: great, Talen, thanks
Talen Morgan: casino's bring in a lot of money
You: Well, house rentals would be a great help towards financing the acquisition of the sim...
Talen Morgan: yes
You: And they surely do, talen... especially IF we have our own telehub (which is the case of a private sim) AND the sim is connected to the mainland!
Talen Morgan: and house rentals in the sim would help defer costs
Roberta Dalek: yes
Sudane Erato: the issue with house rentals is defining the landlord/city relationship
You: Ah.
Roberta Dalek: uma is the landlord
Talen Morgan: yes I just built a casino right next to a telehub...it is very nice )
You: Under the current model, technically, the landlords are the people donating tier...
Roberta Dalek: you pay the treasury
Sudane Erato: no, Ulrika was right
Sudane Erato: there is work involved
Sudane Erato: from what I have seen
You: The future sim will have Uma as landlord, so, the question will be moot...
Sudane Erato: its like buying and selling land
You: What do you mean, Sudane?
You: That we should have someone responsible for dealing with the rentals?
Sudane Erato: from what i can see, the landlord must maintain a relationship with the tenant
You: ie. setting up the appropriate scripts, running after people, etc.
Sudane Erato: yes, running after people
Talen Morgan: we are the landlord....the city will take care of it
You: Ok.
You: Any volunteers? lol
Talen Morgan: there are scripts available to take care of renters
Sudane Erato: doesn't seem like you can set it up like a store
You: Indeed, Talen, but I guess Sudane is right...
Talen Morgan: each house should have its own land so when they dont pay just return all from that land
You: Ah
You: There often is the need for help... like returning objects and so
You: So micro-parceling?
Roberta Dalek: what is the smallest piece land can be parcelled into? if land is parcelled then that takes care of prims
You: That sounds right....
Talen Morgan: and use rental scripts to take the money
You: 4 sq m I think
You: Or was it 16?
Talen Morgan: 16m2
Sudane Erato: very small
You: Ok, 16.
Talen Morgan: so we can parcel the land for rentals which makes it very easy
Roberta Dalek: yes
You: Well... any of you own a private sim?
Sudane Erato: hehe!
Talen Morgan: and they cant go over their prim limits
You: I never saw the Estate menu...
Talen Morgan: I am in the process of buying one now
Sudane Erato: that would be interesting to see
You: Oh, ok, talen. But in theory, the sim owner can even 'eject' people when they're 'owners' of a parcel, right?
Talen Morgan: yes
You: So you could actually give the small plots to somebody...
Talen Morgan: they wouldnt own the parcel
You: Charge them rents, etc
You: If they don't pay, 'remove ownership'.
Talen Morgan: the parcel is still owned by the city
You: Ok
You: This is a very, very strong argument for going the way of a private sim!
Talen Morgan: but it is parceled so they have a prim limit
Sudane Erato: is there a "rental" ownership?
Roberta Dalek: no
Talen Morgan: no just rental
Talen Morgan: you cant sell private sim land
You: Well, under that model - private sim - there 'sort of' is an 'ownership'
Talen Morgan: only transfer the whole sim to another
You: Ah
You: So, you can't have the land as yours?
Roberta Dalek: but you can parcel and rent
You: Hmm
You: Parcel & rent is ok.
Talen Morgan: we can parcel and rent but they cant own land
You: But no editing, terraforming, etc...
Roberta Dalek: we wouldn't want to sell anyway as we would lose control of the land
Talen Morgan: the group would own the land
Sudane Erato: i thought that Uma would own the land?
Roberta Dalek: I rent from TLC and it is fine
You: That was my point, Roberta. As Estate owner, you seem to have all nifty tools to 'control' the way stuff is used in the private sim...
Talen Morgan: yes no editing ....only group members will be able to work the land
Roberta Dalek: Uma would be the owner - but it would be set to group?
You: yes.
Talen Morgan: the group hasx to buy
Talen Morgan: you can tell the lindens we are buying as a group and they set it to group land but uma is still responsible for the payment
Sudane Erato: oh! i see
Talen Morgan: only one person can own a sim
Roberta Dalek: but as uma is the treasury...
Roberta Dalek: and not a real person
Sudane Erato: but the group is still recognized
Roberta Dalek: it works
You: Yes.
You: As I said, this is a particularly good way to get out of this mess...
Talen Morgan: yes thats why we set it up before we buy to group so all of the group members can build and return things and work the land
Talen Morgan: and its much cheaper than trying to buy parcels in this sim
Roberta Dalek: yes
You: Ah, another question, Talen... will that work for ALL members, or just the officers?
Talen Morgan: all members
You: (and that's REALLY true, much much cheaper!)
You: Ok.
Sudane Erato: yes, much!
You: Meaning that every member can eject people, or return objects, etc?
You: Hmm
Talen Morgan: i would guess it would cost around 2k real money to purchase this sim in parcels
Roberta Dalek: if we managed it
Talen Morgan: only officers could eject I think
You: The problem is the big 'if'
Talen Morgan: not tottaly sure
You: Ok, ok.
Roberta Dalek: and we'd need tier unlike in a private sim
Talen Morgan: yes
You: Seems that we need a session with Haney or someone else...
Roberta Dalek: if think only officers - and the members can vote to demote an officer
You: Or, Talen, since you're buying a private sim, perhaps you could give us feedback on that...
Talen Morgan: members can vote to demote an officer
Roberta Dalek: that's what recall elections are
You: mm hmm
Talen Morgan: absolutely
You: Well, with 50+ people, group elections hardly accomplish anything...
You: That's why I don't trust those, lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Roberta Dalek: I presume that we onlt have 3 months left now
Talen Morgan: around that
You: BTW, we COULD have a Neualtenburger group for doing the proposals and the voting...
Talen Morgan: yes

You: No need of scripting kiosks. What do you think?
Roberta Dalek: but more groups causes problems
Talen Morgan: much easier
Talen Morgan: no this would be a RA group
Sudane Erato: don't understand
Roberta Dalek: I'm generally at my group max
You: lol, me too
Roberta Dalek: RA?
You: Representative Assembly.
Talen Morgan: and when a vote is up each member gets it as soon as they log in
You: Well, what do you think? Should we have a kiosk or a group for the bill voting?
You: The only issue would be accountability...
Roberta Dalek: are votes secret in group elections?
You: That's a problem. Yes.
Talen Morgan: I think a group will work but I dont think it will tell us who voted what which is needed
Sudane Erato: sorry, i don't fully understand the group voting
Roberta Dalek: we can't have secret voting
You: Ah Talen. You're right, I forgot that...
Talen Morgan: I dont think it will work as we want it too
You: Sudane, you can propose things and submit them for voting inside a group.
You: It's a 'seldom used' feature...
Talen Morgan: but we should suggest to the lindens that it should be added
You: Mostly used to recall officers.
Sudane Erato: i see
Roberta Dalek: or for adverts normally tbh
You: Ok, talen. That would be an idea, yes.
You: yeah, that too, Roberta
Roberta Dalek: I think we need to get back to the land point and agree a way forward - will Talen and Gwyn laise with Ulrika and Kendra?
You: Sure, I'll email them...
Talen Morgan: hmm wish we had polls in world because they can be set up to show who voted what
You: uh-huh
You: indeed...
Sudane Erato: a kiosk could do that, no?
You: So we still need the kiosk.
Talen Morgan: yes
Talen Morgan: just needs to be scripted
You: mm hmm
You: lol, I wish I had much more free time for SL
Talen Morgan: I can talk to eggy or we ca ask ulrika to taslk to him....easy job for him to create
You: I could do that in 3 days if nobody'd interrupt me.... however, that's as likely as the Lindens suddenly ofering us Anzere, hehe
You: Ah Eggy... pfft
You: lol
You: Yes, he could do it in a few hours
You: But GETTING him to do anything is the hard part, lol
Talen Morgan: yes very true
Sudane Erato: does he need $$?
You: naah
You: he's an utter anarchist, lol
Sudane Erato: LOL
Roberta Dalek: can we get feedback re: the land at the next meeting? I think it's important that this doesn't drag on for 3 months...
You: Yes. Agreed, Roberta.
Sudane Erato: agree
Talen Morgan: I like Anarchist....I'm one myself lol
You: lol talen
You: Yes
You: But there are two types of anarchists...
You: The 'lazy, unpredictable' type
Sudane Erato: hehe
You: And the 'involved' anarchist
Roberta Dalek: active or passive anarchism?
Sudane Erato: Involved?
You: Uh, well, the ones that actually do lots of stuff, hehe
Sudane Erato: like involved at the GPO?
You: GPO?
Sudane Erato: sorry...
Sudane Erato: my initials wrong
Sudane Erato: the world financial summit
You: Oh... I see, lol. Well...
Roberta Dalek: anarcho-capitalists are something very different
You: Ok, let's drop that
Talen Morgan: lol
Roberta Dalek: anyway... back to business
You: 1) We have a concrete suggestion for solving the land issue, and this should go both to Ulrika & Kendra
Sudane Erato: yes
You: 2) We should afterwards ask a few questions to the Lindens...
You: To Slow Haney first
Talen Morgan: what do we need to ask them?
Sudane Erato:
You: But probably to others as well, hehe
You: Ok
Roberta Dalek: yes what do we need to ask them?
You: 2) How feasible is for them to change slightly the Group Voting tools?
You: ie. can we expect a timeframe for that?
Sudane Erato: but not regarding the sim purchase?
You: Sure.
You: That too
You: so, that should be 2)
Talen Morgan: thats not really a question to ask but something to put in the feature discussion forum....even if they do like it they will take months to implement
You: and 3) the group voting things.
You: Well, that depends. I remember that the Estate functions were implemented quite quickly, between two releases.
You: It's a question of prioritizing work.
Talen Morgan: thats true
Roberta Dalek: this wouldn't be a priority really
Talen Morgan: but that impacted quite a few people who spend money...the group thing will have less impact me thinks
You: Hmm probably
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
You: Ok, so we need a scripter again...
Roberta Dalek: I still don't understand what you want to ask the Lindens are how Haney comes into this
Roberta Dalek: and
Sudane Erato: With or without that, the private sim issue stands as the priority
You: Oh, I just feel that we should explain them our decisions, that's all.
Talen Morgan: yes the land situation needs to be resolved one way or another
Roberta Dalek: yes
Sudane Erato: we have nothing needing a referendum to decide
You: Since they need 2 weeks for setting up the sim...
You: And perhaps some extra time for copying & pasting Anzere unto the new sim.
Talen Morgan: I dont think LL needs any explanation from us....
Sudane Erato: we need a timeline for that decision
You: No explanation? Hmm.
You: Ok.
Sudane Erato: Talen, i agree
Talen Morgan: we can copy and paste the entire sim in minutes if need be
You: Wow. How??
Sudane Erato: but, Ulrika and Kendra deserve an explanation
Talen Morgan: this building for example
Roberta Dalek: yes - Ulrika and Kendra certainly
You: Yes...
Talen Morgan: select all and drop the whole thing in one piece into inventory then drop it on the new land...keep all selected and position
You: brb... just 1 min
Sudane Erato: talen, question from a newbie (me)
Sudane Erato: how do you select all?
Talen Morgan: hmmm been a while since I hgave done it myself I have to remember
Sudane Erato: if everything were linked...
You: Well... I don't really care about the 'how', lol. The great news is that it is POSSIBLE!
Sudane Erato: Good!
Talen Morgan: I have several of my houses in inventory that arent linked like that...basically click edit land and then ther structure
Talen Morgan: I'll remember in time though lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: so, what's next?
You: back, sorry
Talen Morgan: click edit land then click then click the structure and all the pievces will be highlighted...then drag to inventory...when you drop click edit land first then drop and all will be selected
Sudane Erato: interesting
You: And when you drop it again, it will fit into the same way it was before?
Talen Morgan: nice when working with big builds that cant be tottaly linked
Talen Morgan: probably not but all will be selected so they will all move as one piece
You: Yes, talen, precisely. I have to tell that trick to lots of people, lol
You: Ok.
You: Well
You: Last time, we just approved the 'no taxes on events' bill...
Talen Morgan: just have to remember to click edit land before you drop the structure
You: We had a second bill to discuss
You: Regarding the 'time of office'
Sudane Erato: term?
You: Since last time there was just Sudane and me, we wanted to discuss that with more people present.
You: Namely, you, Talen.... lol
Talen Morgan: I think that should wait till we have a voting kiosk up and running
Sudane Erato: lol
You: yes, but we can discuss it
Roberta Dalek: well I think we should stay until we move - and then have naother election?
Talen Morgan: waiting for lil ol me lol
Sudane Erato: roberta, yes
You: The bill, s proposed by Ulrika, was to reduce it to 2 months.
Roberta Dalek: I don't think we need another election when we are trying to move
Talen Morgan: personally I think the terms should be 4 months...I know most of the people involved and 2 months is too short
You: This will be put to voting on the kiosk, but let's have your opinion...
Sudane Erato: perhaps we should move, then call a new election
You: Ah, Ulrika's proposal was just for the NEXT election, not as a general rule!
Roberta Dalek: moving will be taking Neualtenburg out of beta, so to speak
You: Ok.
Talen Morgan: yes
Sudane Erato: hehe
You: I also agree upon that myself.
Talen Morgan: we will be version 1.0
Sudane Erato: good!
You: (this means that I will vote against Ulrika's suggestion)
Roberta Dalek: I propose election after move
Sudane Erato: guess we all will
You: Unless, of course, we move BEFORE the end of the Anzere lease.
Roberta Dalek: not in the middle of everything
You: However, Talen proposed that we should use all the alloted time here "for free" to raise more money
You: And I agree with that!
Sudane Erato: we must move before the end
You: Yes, one month before or so
You: 2 weeks notice for the Lindens to set up the new sim.
You: So, around the beginning of May.
Talen Morgan: right now very few are even involed so I dont think election terms will make a difference seeing as the same people will probably be involved
You: That is also a very good argument
You: lol
Roberta Dalek: beginning of may is too late
You: Ok, here comes a tricky part
You: If we are unanimous on that...
Roberta Dalek: as it is bound to slip
Sudane Erato: roberta, I agree
You: We'll have 4 votes out of 7
You: So, unless any of us changes their voting at the kiosk
You: The probablity is that this Bill will not pass
Talen Morgan: why is that?
Sudane Erato: we have modified the bill
You: you're right.
Sudane Erato: so, now it will pass
You: The new bill is, elections after the move.
Sudane Erato: yes
Talen Morgan: but the other members should have their say as well
You: That would be around May 22 or so
You: Of course, Talen.
Sudane Erato: it will be a celebration
Sudane Erato: but we should try to move earlier
Roberta Dalek: neu-neualtenburg
Talen Morgan: we can hold public executions to mark the event )
You:
Sudane Erato: lol
Sudane Erato: who?
You: Fireworks would be more appropriate
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Talen Morgan: ok we can shoot them out of cannons
You: LOL
Roberta Dalek: do we have an actual date when the 4 months is up?
You: Yes
You: May 22
You: Waiat
You: rechecking, hehe
You: Haney sent me an email
Talen Morgan: thats about right I believe
Roberta Dalek: when did the lease end?
You: One of his telegraphic emails...
You: Uh, on the 16th
Talen Morgan: jan 19th I think
You: Well yes
Sudane Erato: i do not see the benefir of staying here any longer than necessary
You: 19th was Monday if I recall correctly
Talen Morgan: there is great benefit
Sudane Erato: yes?
Talen Morgan: it gives us time to plan and it gives us time to earn money by using free land
You: Here is the full text of Haney's mail...
You: I wanted you to know that the lease for Anzere has been extended to May 22, 2005 but won't be extended further due to a change in Linden policy. We appreciate your work.
You:
Sudane Erato: but we have not earned money so far..
You: 40 K, Sudane!
You: It's not much, but something!
Sudane Erato: I see little likelyhood of our temporary stay causing a change in that
Talen Morgan: but we can make an effort to use this free resource to make money before the move and we will need some time to plan
You: Well...
You: The next bill, which we have discussed last meeting, was about renting houses.
Sudane Erato: I have only inspected Ulrika's records
Roberta Dalek: we need to get the casino up and running - and we need to get the land ready before the 22nd so we can just open the sim when ready
Sudane Erato: gross reveniues were 28,000
You: Yes, sorry. Perhaps 28,000 is the correct figure
Sudane Erato: which meant 10% for neualt
You: Ah
You: Right, sorry
Sudane Erato: the rest for the artisans
You: very true
You: Yes, yes.
Talen Morgan: we can get the sim beforehand but I think we should use the land till the last minute
Roberta Dalek: yes
Roberta Dalek: as its a free resource
Sudane Erato: talen, i agree completely
You: Well, in any case, Talen, that would only be a question of a few weeks before May, 22
Sudane Erato: except, the tier then is very expensive
Talen Morgan: it is a free resource and I'm sure we can think of ways to use it to our advantage
You: mm hmm
Sudane Erato: there is still tier here, no?
You: Ok, actually, I need some clarification...
You: Who runs the events, the RA or the Guild?
Talen Morgan: yes but very few are carrying the load as it were
Sudane Erato: some will need to carry the new load, too
Talen Morgan: no
You: no!
Talen Morgan: only one
Roberta Dalek: the new sim won't have tier
Sudane Erato: yes yes, i know
You: The 'new load' will be the city gathering US$195 every month in L$...
Talen Morgan: the new sim can only be owned by one person
Roberta Dalek: which means that we need to *do* stuff to make money
You: Indeed!
Sudane Erato: but i'm saying that there will need to be the responsibility shared
Talen Morgan: yes and getting the rental houses and casino if it is agreed on up
Sudane Erato: Uma must keep a positive balance in her bank account!
Roberta Dalek: I have 15 minutes left btw
Talen Morgan: brb
You: Ah. You're talking about the 'worse case scenario', meaning, if we CANNOT get around L$ 30,000 every month, what happens then?
You: (I have to go as well)
Sudane Erato: well, yes i am.
Roberta Dalek: Well we haven't come close yet
You: Well, there is a suggestion on a 'citizen's tax'
Sudane Erato: I got very discouraged examining Ulrika's records
Roberta Dalek: No work was done on the economy, this is why
Roberta Dalek: It is do-able
Sudane Erato: yes, and this must change
Sudane Erato: and until it changes, some must take responsibility
You: What about the 'citizen's tax'?
Roberta Dalek: Okay - renting houses - I propse that we parcel each house - and rent for a market rent using a script to maintain payments
Sudane Erato: yes, i like that idea
Talen Morgan: if housing and a casino are implemented we will start to see good numbers
You: 60 citizens, paying 500 per month...
Talen Morgan: and we will get merchants to come in as well
Sudane Erato: but then there must be a real incentive to be a "citizen"
Roberta Dalek: Gwyn - basics would just leave
You: Ok, let's assume that many will drop Neualtenburg because of the taxes, but we can raise them to L$1000/month
You: Yes
Talen Morgan: taxing is the wrong choice
Roberta Dalek: we need to do stuff first
Sudane Erato: hehe
Roberta Dalek: lets rent and build the casino and see what the shiortfall is
Talen Morgan: rental units will work but if you tax them on top of that no one will live there
You: Ah talen, I was just trying to cover the 'worse case scenario' in case not even renting and the casino and the item sales bring a profit...
Roberta Dalek: and then see if we need a flat tax
Talen Morgan: merchants will be taxed as well
Sudane Erato: someone needs to be "fallback" responsible
You: Just brainstorming, lol
Sudane Erato: just like now
You: Well, uh, Sudane... we (I mean the RA!) is!
Talen Morgan: I have no problem with helping with costs
Sudane Erato: nor i
Talen Morgan: the sim will take time to become self sufficient
Roberta Dalek: Ok - as time is limited do we have agreement to start work on the house renting and casino so we don't have to wait another week?
Sudane Erato: it just must be agreed that this will be necessary
You: I can certainly share 1/7th of the cost of the sim... no problem!
You: Roberta, those need a vote at the kiosk as well
Talen Morgan: yes
Sudane Erato: I suggest we try to approve them
Sudane Erato: however
Sudane Erato: here, or kiosk
Talen Morgan: and we must be careful if it does pass to let those know that the lease is up in may
You: Well, I have ANOTHER idea... IM voting.
Talen Morgan: I say we use the forums for this first vote while we get the kiosk started
Sudane Erato: yes, that could be good
Sudane Erato: IM voting
Talen Morgan: use the pole option for each item
You: Forum voting, then... fine by me!
Roberta Dalek: as an interim measure
You: you can see who voted on the polls? I didn't know that....
Talen Morgan: yes
Sudane Erato: talen, it must be the private forum then
Sudane Erato: or the public will vote
You: Yes.
Talen Morgan: yes you can set up the pole so you can see who voted for what
You: Ah. Ok. That's great to know. Does that work on Christiano's forums as well?
Talen Morgan: I dont know about SL universe forums but we can check
You: ok
Sudane Erato: lets agree to continue this there
You: I agree...
Roberta Dalek: I have to go now
Talen Morgan: ok
You: Me too
Sudane Erato: unless we hear otherwise, same time next week?
Talen Morgan: I think we got a lot accomplished
Roberta Dalek: yes
Sudane Erato: i agree
You: Not a lot, lol, but at least something. The private sim idea was finally sorted out
Sudane Erato: yes
You: Because last week we were very sceptic about it...
Talen Morgan: thats a lot in my book lol
You: But now it seems that it's the best choice, by far!
Roberta Dalek: and we've agreed to vote on money making suggestions
Talen Morgan: wait till aLL OF US ARE PRESENT AND SEE HOW MUCH GETS DONE LOL
Roberta Dalek: which is a priority
You: good point, hehe
Sudane Erato: lol
You: And I agree, Roberta. I *have* been getting some suggestions from business investors in SL...
You: However, no clear trends...
You: Some say 'tear it all apart and just put casinos and malls'
Roberta Dalek: well they would
You: Others say 'invest in GOM'
Talen Morgan: if you are speaking of Ginko and Jaqueline they don't know as much as they pretend to
Roberta Dalek: we can be a pogressive projevt and be solvent
You: Ah.
You: Talen, that's really INTERESTING
You: I love gossip ))
Sudane Erato: hehe
You: I have heard a very similar argument from a friend, but I dismissed it, actually.
Talen Morgan: they will tell you all manner of things but never give you the back up on it....they have both been held to the fire in the general forums and have come up wanting
Roberta Dalek: their bank looks like a pyramid scheme tbh
You: Hmmmmmm
Talen Morgan: it is ...he's using it to fund his casino...if he ever gets nailed by a few high jackpots the bank goes under
Roberta Dalek: anyway we can do a hell of a lot better
Talen Morgan: I know the games they use and its a very real possibility
You: We just do it the 'traditional way'... casinos, items, rentals, events...
You: Hmm
Roberta Dalek: yes - we just need to do them
Sudane Erato: maybe Neualt should start a bank?
You: Well, thanks a lot for that piece of info, lol
Roberta Dalek: we'd need to decide what the bank would be for and how it would make any money
Talen Morgan: just rememeb whoever owns the casino needs to keep about 10-20 k on them at all times to cover possible wins
You: It's too soon, Sudane... but another thing I'd like to see - perhaps in 2006 - is an Arbitration and Moderation service
You: Say, a Private Court.
You: That's very true, Talen
Talen Morgan: mostly never happens but it can
Roberta Dalek: the casino would need to be owned by the treasury I presume
Talen Morgan: yes
Talen Morgan: well no
You: As said, you're the SECOND person telling me that, but I've dismissed the other guy's opinion. Now I'm not so sure if he was just ranting or if he really knew what he was talking about. Hmm
You: And no, Sudane, you just need the machines to deal transactions with Uma Bauhaus.
Talen Morgan: the trerasury should be kept seperate and the casino owner should only keep funds for the casino
You: Agreed.
Sudane Erato: yes
Talen Morgan: the games can have set limits too so after a certain amount goes out it has to be reset

Talen Morgan: the games can have set limits too so after a certain amount goes out it has to be reset
You: Well... I'm sorry... Roberta must leave, and so do I.
Roberta Dalek: yep
Roberta Dalek: I am supposed to be hosting at 12
You: Talen, thanks a lot for your ideas, lol
Roberta Dalek: lets hope we get progress
Sudane Erato: yes, thank you all!
You: You've got 1 minute to teleport, Roberta...
Talen Morgan: no problem thats what we're all here for
You: I surely hope so.,
Roberta Dalek: bye
You: So... meeting adjourned? lol
Talen Morgan: yup
Sudane Erato: lol
You: ok, let me just keep a copy of history....

Transcript of the Meeting of the Neualtenburg Representative Assembly Feb 20, 2005


--- "You" in the following section refers to Sudane Erato ---------------------

Lance LeFay: Maybe we should get started without the rest..?
You: we could.
Lance LeFay: This is my first one, I just got the invite today.
Lance LeFay: Because Pendari is out, or something.
You: Yes, so welcome welcome!
Roberta Dalek: welcome to RA lance
Lance LeFay: Thanks
Roberta Dalek: sudane do you want to chair?
You: In the penguin i put the bills
You: Well, I guess
You: feel a bit shy about that
Roberta Dalek: i will if you want
You: sure!
Roberta Dalek: ok
Roberta Dalek: Can someone else take the chat log as minutes to post on the forums?
You: yes, i can do that
Roberta Dalek: great! lets start
Lance LeFay: I have an object for that, somewhere..
Roberta Dalek: does everyone have the bills
Lance LeFay: Yup
You: you have a chat recorder?
Lance LeFay: Yeah, I do
Lance LeFay: I made it for the first Neualtenburg meeting
You: we've got to talk... later
Penguin for 2005-2-20 gave you Bill 1 Elimination of the Events Tax.
Penguin for 2005-2-20 gave you Bill 2 RA Elections in 2 Months.
Penguin for 2005-2-20 gave you Bill 3 Authorizing Residential Rentals.
Penguin for 2005-2-20 gave you Bill 4 Authorizing the Casino.
Penguin for 2005-2-20 gave you Bill 5 Recruiting New Members.
Penguin for 2005-2-20 gave you Bill 6 A Money System.
Penguin for 2005-2-20 gave you Bill 7 Talen Morgan to replace Pendari Lorentz.
Roberta Dalek: Ok - I propose that we go through each bill in turn
You: yes, good
Lance LeFay: Numerically?
You: sure.
Roberta Dalek: but first of all we need to formally welcome Lance to the RA - representing the MPP - replacing Pendrai Lorenz
Roberta Dalek: So welcome Lance LeFay
Lance LeFay: Right, but Talen is the head, or at least that's what was voted on
You: agreed!
You: yes,
Roberta Dalek: Talen is the head but is absent from this meeting
You: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn is online
Roberta Dalek: Gywn is the head of the SDF but is also absent
Roberta Dalek: Gwyn!
Lance LeFay: Speaking of which!
Roberta Dalek: yay
You: she appears to be coming
Lance LeFay: I love it when hair loads.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry, sorry I'm late :(
You: hi Gwyn!
Lance LeFay: It's okay, we just started
Roberta Dalek: Gwyn - the bills are in Sudane's penguin, lance's chat recorder is taking minutes, amd i was chairing in your absence
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh thanks a lot, Roberta!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And a big, warm welcome to lance :)
Lance LeFay: Thank yeh
Roberta Dalek: done!
You: Yes!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, and thanks as well for the 'bill penguin', Sudane :)
Roberta Dalek: Gywn - would you like the chair back?
You: :)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh no, please go on, Roberta :)(
Roberta Dalek: I've propsoed going through each bill in turn
Roberta Dalek: Has everyone got the bills?
You: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: just not me yet, lol
Lance LeFay: I'm sure Bill here would be happy to give them to you.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, got them!
You: :) I just think of him as Penguin :)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh
Lance LeFay: Maybe we should vote on it? ;)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol why not?
Roberta Dalek: Bill #1 has already been agreed. That was the elimination of the events tax due to changes in event support
You: Yes. Just put there for completeness
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I think we can safely go to the next one...
Lance LeFay: Agreed, next bill.
Roberta Dalek: Bill #2 was proposed by Ulrika and wanted the next RA elections to take place in March. The previous consensus of discussion was that we should wait until we move
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Roberta Dalek: This hasn't been formally voted on
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that we should take a formal vote now, since we have certainly over 50% of the RA attending...
You: There appear to be many strong opinions about this
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, but I also remember that Talen thought that 4 months were ok...
You: I would support the wait til after
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Meaning that we can set the elections for, say, end of May (after the move)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and that will make everybody happy :)
Roberta Dalek: yes - lets have a discussion - I propose that it is guillotined at 10.30 - and then a vote
Lance LeFay: Sounds good to me.
You: guillotined?
Lance LeFay: Cut off
You: what an image :)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha :D
Lance LeFay: Certianly gets the point across.
Roberta Dalek: we have a lot of business to get through - so having a time limit for each dicussion will ensure we get through most of it - I hope
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You're good at this, Roberta, we should have you permanently as Chair :)
You: :)
Lance LeFay: Okay, so, about the march election dates.
You: May
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, let me present Ulrika's argumens (not mine) on this.
Lance LeFay: The bill says march, doesn't it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ulrika wanted a 'shorter first term'.
Roberta Dalek: Ulrika's proposal was that it will help keep the group engaged politically
Gwyneth Llewelyn: MM hmm
Roberta Dalek: Go Gwyn
You: Sorry, right. March is what Ulrika proposed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I think that Ulrika proposed this because she also feels that we are really 'just starting'
You: true
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Meaning that lots of things have really to be in place before we have the Government thingie really operational...
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So her idea was, let's have a short term first, concentrate on putting all things we need in place, and do a new election...
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The new Government will then start with much more things in place!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, I'm strictly speaking for Ulrika, and not my own opinion :)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Talen, however, thinks that the RA should have a 4-month term, as suggested in the forums.
Roberta Dalek: Are you finsihed/
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. I think I'll just add that I respect Ulrika's opinion, but I tend to agree with Talen.
Roberta Dalek: My position would be that the most important thing to set up would be the land we need for our continuation
Roberta Dalek: and we should wait until we move - and have a new RA as a new start
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
You: I feel that Ulrika has over estimated the involvement in the political process...
Roberta Dalek: I don't think we need elections in the middle of everything else
You: both elections and on-going RA
Lance LeFay: I agree with Talen as well. I don't think the RA has had enough time yet (or will by the 20th) to accomplish much.
Lance LeFay: But should establish itself by May.
You: I think we need to establish stability, even with our newly elected unit
You: Then, immediately after we are re-located, we call new elections
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm silent, because I fully agree with all your views :)
Roberta Dalek: I agree
You: :)
Roberta Dalek: So we are talking about elections in the end of may
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
You: I suggest elections immediately after e-location, whenever that is
Roberta Dalek: I propose amending Ulrika's bill and replacing 19th/20th March will the end of May
Roberta Dalek: *with
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just a short interruption... technically, we should do the following: 1) Vote on the proposed bill (elections in March) and 2) if the bill does not pass, amend it or 3) submit a new bill with a new date.
Roberta Dalek: ty
Roberta Dalek: Ok - lets vote on the bill as currently stands
Lance LeFay: Nay here.
Chat Recorder: blah
Roberta Dalek: nay
Chat Recorder: blah
Chat Recorder: blah
Roberta Dalek: nay
Chat Recorder: blah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I abstain...
Chat Recorder: blah
Lance LeFay: Uhoh..
Chat Recorder: blah
You: No
Chat Recorder: blah
Lance LeFay: Chat recorder bugged..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Does it only reply to aye and nay?
You: whats with the chat recorder?
Roberta Dalek: I record that as 3 nay, and one abstention
You: good
Roberta Dalek: The bill therefore falls
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah well, Lance, you can fix that later :)
Lance LeFay: It ran out of memory on one script and tried to go to the next.. but it didn't work for some reason.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, should we propose an amendment to the bill, then?
Lance LeFay: My scripts always break at the worst possible moment.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe :)
Roberta Dalek: Please propose an amendment
You: Lance, I'll keep it
Lance LeFay: Yes- general consensus seems to be end of may, yes?
Roberta Dalek: yes
You: OK, I'll go with it. So the date is definite
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'd like to propose a suggestion...
Roberta Dalek: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We don't know *exactly* the date for the 'official move'
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I'd propose the 2nd weekend after LL has given us the new sim and we have entirely copied Neualtenburg to the new sim
Roberta Dalek: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This could be slightly eariler or later than May 30th.
Lance LeFay: Do we know that we actually are getting a sim?
You: that would be closer to my feelings about it
Lance LeFay: I've been out of the loop for a little bit.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or May 31st, lol. Forgot that May has 31 days :)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not yet, Lance, but our consensus is that we should have one private sim. However, this is something to be discussed yet...
Lance LeFay: Right, funding could be an... issue.
You: A bill has not been prepared about this.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Precisely. We need to know how much income we get from casino & rentals first.
Roberta Dalek: this leads on to the discussions around the casino and rentals
You: Guess we must. :)
Roberta Dalek: so I propose that we leave this until later in the agenda
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. So I suggest amending the bill to have elections on the 2nd weekend after the move.
Lance LeFay: Agreed- we should pick it back up during the casino bill.
You: Agreed
Roberta Dalek: what is for sure is that we have to move *somewhere*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
You: Yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Shall we vote on that amendment then?
You: yes
Roberta Dalek: Lets vote on Gymn's amendement
Lance LeFay: Why exactly are we going to have to move? Have the lindens said that they're cutting the project after this lease?
Roberta Dalek: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, yes.
Lance LeFay: Ah.
Roberta Dalek: change of LL policy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, they stopped promoting 'finantially' residents' projects.
Roberta Dalek: so.. all those in favour of gywn's amendment
Lance LeFay: But don't we have the tier for this?
Lance LeFay: Aye.
Roberta Dalek: but not the land
Roberta Dalek: aye
You: In favor
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, to be consisten, I abstain again.
Roberta Dalek: okay - i record that as 3 in favour and one abstention
You: yes
Roberta Dalek: the bill as amended passes

--- "You" in the following section refers to Lance LeFay ------------------

Gwyneth Llewelyn: Next bill :)
Sudane Erato: :)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well this one is tricky...
You: Rather long, too.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'll suggest an easy way out...
Roberta Dalek: bill #3 is regarding resiential rentals
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm not sure if all of you have some experience on these things, but it's not unusual to 'vote in general' and 'vote in detail'
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, we could vote that, in general, we agree upon a Bill
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But that we need to hammer out the details.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If we DON'T agree on the bill, it saves a lot of time :)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What do you think?
Sudane Erato: The action items are really the gathering of details
Roberta Dalek: fine by me
You: Sounds good
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, in general, the bill states that we should rent parts of the city.
Sudane Erato: And the authorizing to go ahead, from an experimental point of view
Roberta Dalek: in general I agree
Sudane Erato: Yes, I think that Ulrikas identified the city parts
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Before we vote (in general) I'd say that I would like to add Sudane's comments to the bill. 'Residential rental' is far easier to discuss than 'commercial rental'
Sudane Erato: its mostly a questions of mechanics
You: I think that's already in the bill, Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: btw do you want a copy of the city map in-world? ;)
You: It says to seperate the two, and do a commercial bill later.
Sudane Erato: I feel its important to separate the two
Roberta Dalek: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lance, yes
Sudane Erato: yes, a revised city map would be very useful
You: Is this the current one?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I don't have a 'revised map', just the original map :( i.e. that one on the ground which lance is showing :)
Sudane Erato: that;s the old one, right?
.
You: I think the housing is the same
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the 'original one'
You: And that's what's being discussed
Sudane Erato: well, we really need house by house, with m2 indicated
Sudane Erato: because rentals are based on that
Roberta Dalek: This is the detail that we don't need atm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that means doing measurements - again
Roberta Dalek: we need to agree in principal to renting houses
You: Right
Sudane Erato: yes
You: The details can be worked out later
You: PErhaps by the landlords mentioned in the bill.
Sudane Erato: I think the whole city agrees that renting the house is appropriate
Sudane Erato: the "landlords" are the question
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, again, let's have the easy way out... we could agree on the bill and eventually on a sq. m. price for the rentals, and delegate the task of setting up the *exact* renting parcels to the person who will manage the rentals...
Roberta Dalek: I agree - though I'd rather do it by something like a rento
Sudane Erato: Talen suggest that landlords are not needed
You: I think Landlords are a good idea
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The City is technically the landlord...
Sudane Erato: right, the City is
You: This way we can break up responsibility for different sections
You: And each landlord can help thier tenants
You: However
You: The landlord WOULD need an incentive
You: Hence the 50/50 clause
Sudane Erato: Lance, landlords cost $
Roberta Dalek: To be honest I don't like the fact that Ulrika has porposed giving herslef a job
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But of course we can agree that part of the rentals will go towards the people donating tier.
Roberta Dalek: and I don't understand the June 30 date - as we will have moved by then
Sudane Erato: Whoa! We're mixing up too many issues!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed, agreed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe this one must be broken up in tiny bits first...
Sudane Erato: June 30 was meant to be the move date. Please change to the actual one
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'd start by suggesting that we agree (or not) to start renting parcels of Neualtenburg for residential purposes.
Roberta Dalek: yes agreed
You: I think we can agree on that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Leaving the details for now.
Sudane Erato: Yes, subject to the procedures
David Jacobs is online
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I also agree on that one
Roberta Dalek: ok - 4 in favour?
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: yes
You: Yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye for me :)
Roberta Dalek: okay - so that part of the bill is passed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: whew
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Sudane Erato: We'll add a clause at the end of the bill defining waht was passed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, perhaps we should think about WHAT part of Neualtenburg is going to be rented.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (even before we think about prices)
Sudane Erato: I suggest that a committe take Ulrika's suggestions...
Sudane Erato: and propose them, after knowing exactly what she proposed
Sudane Erato: map them, so to speak
You: One thing that I think we should adress, quicjly.
Roberta Dalek: I propose that we need a survey of how many houses we have - and how many have been properly terrformed to be in a rental condition
You: Is that not all of the houses are ready for consumption
Sudane Erato: Yes, Roberta I agree
Roberta Dalek: some have snow inside
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I must say, if you look at the map, there is a red Viertel on it, the houses surrounding the Marktplatz. Since I'd like to have those for commercial rental (in another bill), I would like to leave them out for now.
Roberta Dalek: fine
You: Also, Most of the houses Have top floors that can'
You: t be reached.
Sudane Erato: Yes, that's why we must study the map
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ouch. I didn't know *that*, Lance...
Sudane Erato: can top floors be rented separately?
You: They were only meant as placeholders, originally.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see.
Roberta Dalek: ok - I propose setting up a small group to survey the houses and identify rentable ones
You: At least that's my understanding
Sudane Erato: I thought you rent m2 of "Ground"
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wouldn't rent them separately, but charge higher prices for them :)
Roberta Dalek: you do
Roberta Dalek: you generally rent m2 and prim allocation
Sudane Erato: so a rental goes all the way up?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Roberta, I guess I'll have to agree with you. Yes, we need an assessment of 'rentable' propriety.
Sudane Erato: hehe definitely propriety
Sudane Erato: I'll voluteer to help!
You: I'll help, if I can find the time.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Sudane, there are lots of different models of rental... some people have large buildings and rent each floor separately... it's up to us to decide, really...
Sudane Erato: Oh!
Roberta Dalek: but we need to see what we have first
Sudane Erato: Yes!
Roberta Dalek: how many/ what size
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don't volunteer, lol, but I can certainly agree that the group shall be composed by Lance, Roberta and Sudane :D
Sudane Erato: good, done
Roberta Dalek: Ok - if all are agreed I'll action this week
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, I agree
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Do you think that this will be 'manageable' in a single week?
----- End of section One ------------------------

Roberta Dalek: me and sudane to organise - and lance to be kept in the loop if he has time
Sudane Erato: Agreed. Roberta, we can set a time after the mtg
You: It's manageable in a single day, if we devote a couple hours to it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Ulrika also suggested that we should do it one Viertel at a time.
Sudane Erato: is that a section?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: a 'quarter', hehe
Roberta Dalek: its a city quarter
Sudane Erato: my German is non-existent
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Viertel = quarter
Sudane Erato: ahhh :)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or a 'block' if you prefer. A 'neighbourhood'. Whetever. in our city map, each Viertel has it's own colour...
You: ALabaster, are you actually still there?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Blue, red, green, magenta.
Sudane Erato: he is :)
Roberta Dalek: i don't see him
You: He's back here
You: I think he's AFK though.
Alabaster Mendicant: hadahfdaahf
You: I... see.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh. hello Alabaster, I failed completely to notice you :)
Alabaster Mendicant: dont worry
Alabaster Mendicant: im afk
You: He's been there since before you got here ;)
Roberta Dalek: ok - well observers are allowed - but he can't contribute as he's not a member of the ra or of the city
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes, this is a public meeting to HEAR, not to speak ;)
Sudane Erato: :)
Roberta Dalek: ok - shall i take a formal group on the setting up of the survey team?
Sudane Erato: he's been very quiet
Roberta Dalek: vote
Sudane Erato: sure, but I guess we should write this up, too
Roberta Dalek: the survey team will report back *something* by the next RA meeting
Sudane Erato: good
You: Sounds good.
Roberta Dalek: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Anyway, one thing we can say is that property rentals will be valid only until the 'move date', or May 22nd, whichever comes first, to be honest with our 'rentees'....
Sudane Erato: In favor
Roberta Dalek: yes
Sudane Erato: Yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And 'aye' on that as well
Sudane Erato: Not again!
Roberta Dalek: okay - 4 in favour of the setting up of the survey group
Gwyneth Llewelyn: :D
Roberta Dalek: that passes
Roberta Dalek: all those in favour of rentals being until move date?
Roberta Dalek: aye
You: Aye
Sudane Erato: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
Roberta Dalek: four in favour - passes
Roberta Dalek: Do we need to do anything else on this issue until next week?
Second Life: Your object 'Object' went off the world at <225.22,180.79,4077.69> in Anzere. You can find it in your lost and found folder.
You: I don't think so.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now there is something on Sudane's amendment on the bill that we should discuss as well, and is fully independent of 'available houses' or 'how much should we charge' which we will probably discuss next meeting...
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Sudane Erato: I'd like to understand and study the rent-a-cube concept
Sudane Erato: mostly so we understand the issues
Roberta Dalek: ok - I can take you to see some if we want
Sudane Erato: I think the "no landlord" concept is very attractive
Gwyneth Llewelyn: My point is, should renting be done to 'citizens', should rentees become automatically citizens, or should they have a separate status?
Roberta Dalek: and will try and get a notecard from the creator
Sudane Erato: Gwyn, that's another important point
Roberta Dalek: I think rentees should be citizens - as they are living here
You: I don't think citizenship should be mandatory for Rentees
You: We'd get far less rentals, and if we're going to be depending on rentals for income
You: That's a bad thing.
Sudane Erato: I think that needs to be part of the Bill of Rights discussion
Roberta Dalek: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Sudane... to clarify the rent-o-matic... it's simply a 'clock', set to send IMs to people if they don't pay in time, and alert the owner when someone did not pay.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As to citizenship... hmm
Roberta Dalek: its a box that people pay to rent a space - if they do not pay the space becomes available for rent againa
Sudane Erato: Must be more than a clock, since it controls the permissions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have very serious problems with 'outsider renting'. My feeling is , whoever lives in Neualtenburg, contributes to the project, so they should 'become' citizens automatically.
You: It can't really be more than a clock
Roberta Dalek: not it doesn't control permissions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And no, Sudane, it doesn't control permissions
Sudane Erato: Ahh.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That needs manual intervention
You: I think that membership, as always should be open, even encouraged to renters, but not mandatory.
Roberta Dalek: normally renters expect objects to be set to a group - so that auto return can be set on the land
Sudane Erato: Gwyn, lets make that discussion a Bill of Rights thing
Roberta Dalek: to remove crap automaticallt
Sudane Erato: Can we have a person or committe draft one?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Lance. My problem is 'what about someone who wants to rent space but doesn't want to be a citizen?;
You: Then that's fine. However, in the city, they still have to abide by our rules
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, we have a few drafts on the forums already, Sudane!
You: Or they're evicted
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Lance, they would have 'immigrant status' in that case.
Sudane Erato: Citizenship, Rights and benefits, and Obligations
Sudane Erato: sorry, didn't see them
Roberta Dalek: I propose that we leave this until the next meeting
Roberta Dalek: and we get a concrete document to discuss
Sudane Erato: then we should form one and bring it as a bill
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I'll *try* to read all what was on the forums, and sketch out a resumed version on all discussions, and add a few of my own ideas (including the 'immigrant status')
Roberta Dalek: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, aye, I agree on Roberta's proposal
Sudane Erato: that would be great, if you can
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let's hope so, lol, my past 2 weeks were utter nightmare :)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (RL work, hehe)
Roberta Dalek: Ok - shall we call this discussion on bill 3 to a close for this meeting - and i'll recap on what we have agreed
Sudane Erato: :)
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
Roberta Dalek: we agreed in principal to rent residential properties
You: Agreed
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye :)
Roberta Dalek: we agreed to survey the hosues we have and report back to the next meeting
Roberta Dalek: this is areview
Sudane Erato: yes
Roberta Dalek: we've already voted :)
You: Yes, the agreed I said was to do the review.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: right :))))
Sudane Erato: :)
Roberta Dalek: we agreed that the mex rental should be until the move date
Roberta Dalek: max
Sudane Erato: yes.
Roberta Dalek: we agreed to come back to everything else ;)
Sudane Erato: yes
You: So, bill 4, then?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right :)
Roberta Dalek: bill 4 - authorising the casino
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane, have you told Lance and Roberta about the 'possible friction' we had?
Roberta Dalek: no
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, bill #4 is included here just as a reference, we have already approved the casino...
Roberta Dalek: we haven't when i checked
You: What is the friction?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well. There seemed to be a slight misunderstanding on *who* would build it, and what was the 'style' to be adopted
Roberta Dalek: I don't think quorum has been reached
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have two volunteers, Talen and Ulrika
Sudane Erato: well, i visited the site, figuring that Talen would be building...
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Talen favours a build integrated into neualtenburgs' 'medieval' setting
You: I'd go with Talen, just because Ulrika has done just about everything else.
Sudane Erato: but Ulrika has already started a building
You: Ah..
Sudane Erato: The style is really not the issue
Roberta Dalek: did Ulrika check with anyone before doing this?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Talen, however, would in any case get the machines, set up stuff, etc
You: Well, she started it without approval, didn't she?
Sudane Erato: Or, even who does it
Sudane Erato: perhaps
You: This brings me to something I've been wondering about..
Roberta Dalek: I note that the in wordl tools say that the bill hasn't even passed yet
You: How set up is the artisinal guild?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm. Technically, yes, Lance. She started it without an 'approval'
Roberta Dalek: I'm not convinced the guild fucntions
You: Because it seems the report and the casino would be passed to the guild
Sudane Erato: I've spoken a bit with Catfart
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aah yes, another problem there, lance. Kendra is our Guildmeisterinn, but she doesn;t have much free time now, so the Guild will be run by Catfart for a while .
You: But if it isn't really working, we don't have much of a choice but to have RAers do it, do we?
Roberta Dalek: ok - thats fine
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe we should propose a bill to shake up the Guild a bit :)
Sudane Erato: I think so, tho Cat has said he's interested in working
Roberta Dalek: I propose that we don't reward Ulrika for satrting without approval
You: Agreed
Sudane Erato: No no. I think we should do anything to get a casino going, no matter who starts it.
Roberta Dalek: and that the decision on the style is taken by the guild (Catfart), in consultation with Talen who will be setting up the thing
You: While Ulrika's intentions are good, she has been overstepping her bounds a bit. She started this project to get a representitive government going, didn't she?
Sudane Erato: We must avoid a conflict!
Sudane Erato: Yep
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I abstain on that vote as well, I mean, I won't either encourage or discourage Ulrika. There are lots of things done in Neualtenburg without 'proper approval' because we couldn't meet in time :( On the other hand, I also don't think we should
Gwyneth Llewelyn: encourage private initiatives
Sudane Erato: I agree with Gwyn
You: Right, this whole project is about organization and collaboration
Roberta Dalek: well if this is going to happen we do actually need to decide
You: We need to focus on that primarily
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed on that, lance.
Sudane Erato: I have tried to find Talen this weekend, to no avail
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Me too, Sudane :( :(
You: On a side note, about the guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: He was not 100% sure if he would have some time left...
You: I have an idea
Gwyneth Llewelyn: let's hear ideas :)
Sudane Erato: :)
Roberta Dalek: We can't take a "we mustn't offend anyone" position as nothing will ever happen otherwise
You: Instead of doing the survey of the residences ourselves
You: We should comission the guild to do it
Sudane Erato: No, it needs to get done!
You: So we can test and see if the guild can actually function at this time.
Roberta Dalek: No we need to do it pronto
You: Let's be honest here- the renting is probobly not going to work before we move. Isn't the move date March 22nd?
Sudane Erato: I propose to work with Cat on the budget
Sudane Erato: that will see if the Guild can do anything
You: That's barely more than a month from now, and we arn't even going to work on pricing or details untill next meeting
Roberta Dalek: ok
You: After that the script needs to get set up
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Move date is May 22nd
Roberta Dalek: of course
You: Well, then yeah
Sudane Erato: I think the RA should simply approve or dis-approve what the committe suggests
You: Let's get working on that
Roberta Dalek: I'm lost here
Sudane Erato: yes
You: Never mind what I was saying
Roberta Dalek: What are we agreeing to?
You: I had the date wrong..
Roberta Dalek: Ok - we have already agreed to do a survey - I presume that still stands
Sudane Erato: yes!
Roberta Dalek: we are discussing the casino
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, well, Lance, sometimes it's great to get the dates wrong, understand that we need to move fast in either case :) So I can agree with your concerns!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, the survey stands, and the RA is going to do it.
Sudane Erato: yes, we MUST move fast!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or rather, a RA-nominated commitee, to be more precise!
Sudane Erato: Thats why the casino matter is a setback
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As to the casino...
Coreina Grace is offline
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Again, I suggest that we do a 'general vote;
Roberta Dalek: As far as I understand it - the discision on the style of the building should be taken by the guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's correct, Roberta
Sudane Erato: :(
Roberta Dalek: so we leave that to catfart
You: Right, and as far as I understand the structure, so should the architect
Roberta Dalek: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we can technically interfere, lol
Sudane Erato: I disagree
You: However, the unapproved initiative is a matter for the RA.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's correct, Lance.
Sudane Erato: I think we should encourage the building however it gets done
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Roberta Dalek: no 1 - we need to give the overall yay or nay to the idea of a casino
Sudane Erato: Which I think the on-line vote did?
You: I think that's been agreed, but let's vote
Roberta Dalek: this hasn't happened yet according to the in group voting
You: I vote Aye.
Roberta Dalek: aye
Sudane Erato: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I thought differently before this meeting, but I really think that's overstepping on our 'powers'. Ulrika is a Meister in the Guild and I think that Talen as well. So if it's their job, they should be doing it as best as they can
Sudane Erato: which means?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No Sudane, i have checked, the in-world vote hasn't finished yet because I got the dates wrong :(
Roberta Dalek: we are deciding on whether to have one or not
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I vote aye on the casino.
Sudane Erato: oh :(
Roberta Dalek: so far I have three votes in favour
You: So Gwyn- Aye? Or nay?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry, sorry, aye aye aye
Roberta Dalek: okay - 4 votes in favour - propsoal passes
Roberta Dalek: yay!
Sudane Erato: goord!
Sudane Erato: good
DRoberta Dalek: the dispte within the guild should be dealt with by the guild?
You: Aye
Sudane Erato: we don't know there is a dispute
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good point! But I think that should be a problem for the Guild as well
Roberta Dalek: we know that there is conflict
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, Catfart should dela with it. I vote on having the Guild to sort it out.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *deal
Roberta Dalek: and we know we need to get a move on
Roberta Dalek: okay - lets vote that cartfart should eal with it
You: Aye.
Roberta Dalek: deal
You: Sudane?
Sudane Erato: sorry, i'm getting confused
Sudane Erato: IM's and chat
You: We're voting that Catfart should deal with the dispute.
Roberta Dalek: okay - we are voting on the fact that any dispute over the style of the casino should be dealt with by the guild ie catfart
Sudane Erato: i think he will not
Roberta Dalek: well it is his job to do so
Roberta Dalek: if he does not then we need to revists
Roberta Dalek: revisit
Sudane Erato: we can vote that he should, but he will not
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, the wording in the bill should be: 'We think that the Guild should work it out' If Catfart is willing or not, well, that's his problem :)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I agree, Roberta!
Sudane Erato: OK, that would be better, I guess
Roberta Dalek: aye
Sudane Erato: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and aye
You: Okay, so, are we done with Bill 4?
You: Aye.
Sudane Erato: yes
Roberta Dalek: okay -so 4 ayes - vote passes
Roberta Dalek: we agree that the guild should work it out
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, perhaps I should point out a detail on the casino bill...
Roberta Dalek: end of bill 4!
Roberta Dalek: oh ok
Sudane Erato: :)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which are the nitty-gritty details on the finantial plan
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane suggested that she (representing the RA) and the Guild representative for the casino should work them out - together.
Nate007 Groshomme is online
Sudane Erato: It was a suggestion
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would like to propose that Sudane should deal with that in the RA's name.
Sudane Erato: Someone must
Roberta Dalek: yes I agree
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, let's turn the 'suggestion' in a 'formal proposal'
You: It sounds good to me.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: "We, the Members of the RA, formally endow Sudane Erato as our representative for setting up the operating and financial plan for the casino to be created, working together with the Guild representative"
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Suonds formal enough? :)
You: Yup/
Roberta Dalek: aye
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: I accept if all agree
You: So, to the voting?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye on having Sudane as representative.
You: AYe.
Roberta Dalek: lets vote
Roberta Dalek: aye
You: Four ayes, then?
Sudane Erato: aye
Roberta Dalek: ok
Roberta Dalek: 4 vote in favour - vote passed
Vivianne OFlynn is offline
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is also a sub-item: the place for the casino.
Sudane Erato: :)
Antagonistic Protagonist is offline
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's trivial, but since it's technically 'city space' beyond the original project, to make it very clear, I also feel that we should have a formal agreement
You: The space past the bridge?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The reasoning for the place on the far side of the bridge: 1) it's outside the city walls 2) it's near the telehub
Sudane Erato: The important thing is the foundation, since it must carry to the new Neualt
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* yes, that one
Sudane Erato: I think the locatation now is not so important
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What I mean is, the Guild should figure out how it looks...
Sudane Erato: Because in 2 months it will be moved
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we should say WHERE it should be!
Roberta Dalek: yes - so any proposal should be until the date of move
Sudane Erato: shrug
Sudane Erato: :)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, but the casino will be built BEFORE we move!
Sudane Erato: yes!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's why i think we should agree upon the location.
You: I think the proposed location is fine.
---- End of Section two ---------------------------------

Gwyneth Llewelyn: I also think it's fine.
Roberta Dalek: I agree
Sudane Erato: Agreed
Roberta Dalek: lets take a formal vote on it
You: Aye here.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye.
Sudane Erato: Aye
Roberta Dalek: eye here
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Roberta Dalek: okay - 4 in favour - proposal passes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There goes #4 :) I don't have anything else to bother you on that one...
Roberta Dalek: yay
Sudane Erato: Hi!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: :)
Talen Morgan: greetingsd all
Roberta Dalek: welcome talen
You: Hey Talen
You: We just finished Bill four.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah Talen, welcome, and join us, please!
Roberta Dalek: we have just approved the casino bill
Talen Morgan: cool
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Roberta Dalek: what was agreed will be in the minutes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Sudane Erato: :)
You: The formal party.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The frozen Party!
Roberta Dalek: the penguin is the bill provider
Sudane Erato: He's got the bills
Roberta Dalek: I am chairing
Talen Morgan: nice
Roberta Dalek: on to bill 5
Talen Morgan: whoa
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Touch it to get them, talen, and we'll go to #5
Talen Morgan: theres already been 4 bills passed
Talen Morgan: may I get a recap
You: Well, the first one was just for reference
You: It was the elimination of the event tax
Roberta Dalek: bill 2 was amended to say after the move
Roberta Dalek: bill 3 we are doing a survey of rentable properties *this week*
Roberta Dalek: bill 3- we approved in principal renting residential properties
Roberta Dalek: bill 4 - we approved the casino in porincipal, and the location
Roberta Dalek: bill 4 - we nominated sudane to deal with the details on behalf of the ra
Roberta Dalek: bill 4 -style of building should be left to the guild to deal with any disputes
Talen Morgan: what details
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, the details on the finantial and operational plan...
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The rest is up to the Guild, really :)
You: Right, we decided that Catfart will deal with the current issues with the casino.
Talen Morgan: what issues?
Roberta Dalek: if he doesn't for any reason then we will have to
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since he's the Assistant Guildemeister.
Roberta Dalek: we understand that Ulkrika has started building without approval
Talen Morgan: ahhh
Talen Morgan: i thought she was building a museum
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is another thing, Talen...
Sudane Erato: At the location of the casino, she has started a building
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
Talen Morgan: gotcha
Sudane Erato: and I am concerned that it may inteference with your effort to start one
Sudane Erato: you had offered to start this weekend
Talen Morgan: yes I could start today and I have off tomorrow
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that's excellent :)
Sudane Erato: that would be great!
Sudane Erato: but we must deal with the walls already there
Talen Morgan: but what style of building will it be...old...modern?/
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah right. Well, Talen is a group officer, so that shouldn't be much of a problem.
Talen Morgan: we are officers we can remove them if need be lol
Roberta Dalek: accessible is the most important issue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Talen... that's something for the Guild to decide, really, not the RA
You: I just had an idea...
Talen Morgan: but the guild didnt approve her build to be placed their either
You: You know how Billy Madison has a private sim (more than one?) and is deploying, so he can't pay the tier (or doesn't want to)?
Roberta Dalek: yes
Talen Morgan: i already talked to him...waiting for him to get back to me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well... we discussed this, and I proposed that 'allowing a casino to be built', since it's not in the original plan, is a question for the RA. And we said, yes, let's have a casino.
You: We could potentially get one from him, if we could come up with the tier.
Talen Morgan: we could possibly get it for 650
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, as to the style, and the particulars...
Sudane Erato: guys, separate issue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed. Ok, enough recapping, hehe
Roberta Dalek: okay - lets finish off the casino
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let's move to #5
Roberta Dalek: and then take this as a separate issue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed.
Sudane Erato: yes
Roberta Dalek: no - if lance can build this weekend then we do need to decide
Roberta Dalek: not lance - talen
You: Er, yeah :)
You: You do NOT want me to build.
Talen Morgan: lol
Sudane Erato: but we did decide, no?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What is there to decide, Roberta? The casino is approved. It's now up to the Guild to do what they feel it's best
Roberta Dalek: we didn't decide what to do with Ulrika's build
Sudane Erato: ASAP!
Roberta Dalek: we passed it onto the guild ie catfart
You: Right
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed.
Sudane Erato: perhaps Talen and Ulrika can discuss it
You: We should set him a deadline to resolve this
Roberta Dalek: is this okay - or do we need to decide?
Object: Your object 'Object' has been returned to you from parcel 'Schloss Neualtenburg' at Anzere 227, 189.
Talen Morgan: then we are agreed that nothing will happen until the guild responds correct
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Roberta... we have decided that Catfart should deal with that.
Roberta Dalek: okay
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Argh.
Talen Morgan: we cant decide guild matters
Roberta Dalek: okay - fine
Gwyneth Llewelyn: True, we can't.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, the Guild, if I remind you, is NOT democratic :)
Sudane Erato: May we issue a formal and urgent request for the guild to decide this by tomorrow!
Talen Morgan: i can start building on my property and drop it when we are ready though
Roberta Dalek: Talen - go for it
Sudane Erato: That would be good
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah Talen. that's an EXCELLENT suggestion :)
Talen Morgan: just need to know what size we think is appropriate and style
Sudane Erato: Size to fit.. there is not much space
Roberta Dalek: which is for the guild/
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This really just needs one very simple thing from catfart - just saying 'Talen is going to do the work for us'
Roberta Dalek: the size we know from the location
Sudane Erato: to the right of the bridge
Sudane Erato: as you go out
Talen Morgan: lets look at the location after the meeting and I'll figure it out
Roberta Dalek: okay
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure!
Sudane Erato: good
Roberta Dalek: I propose that we take the Billy Madison thig now as emergency business
Gwyneth Llewelyn: #5...?
Roberta Dalek: before bill 5
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah drats
Talen Morgan: no bills first
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let me check how much tier he has.
Roberta Dalek: as we have 20 mins
Talen Morgan: then new business
Sudane Erato: :) the democratic process
Talen Morgan: billy isnt doing anything with the sim until he talks to me anyway
Sudane Erato: good, teell him we are a discussion party to the talks
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah ok. So, we could at least agree that we are interested in talking with billy
You: Yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol, Sudane, my words exactly, hehe
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: #5...?!?
Roberta Dalek: okay - I propose that we authorise Talen to talk to Billy
Sudane Erato: yes!
Roberta Dalek: on behalf ot eh ra
Sudane Erato: :)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes on talen talking to Billy in the RA's name.
Roberta Dalek: aye
Talen Morgan: works for me
Sudane Erato: yes
You: AYe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: unanimous again :)
Roberta Dalek: 4 in favour - proposal passed
You: Sorry I was silent there for a second, had to take a phone call
Roberta Dalek: 5
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh, 5 in favour, Roberta...
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
Roberta Dalek: okay!
Roberta Dalek: back to bill 5
You: Seriously, is there anything we're not in agreement on here?
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... #5, about the 'recruiting events'
Talen Morgan: the penguin said Nay I think
Sudane Erato: :) no it didn't
Penguin: Nay!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I disagree totally on that bill, on the grounds that all events are guild stuff, and not RA stuff.
Talen Morgan: see
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Talen Morgan: lol
Sudane Erato: lol
You: :)
You: Right, so, bill 5.
Roberta Dalek: I agree - events are a matter for the guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let me repeat my voting statement on #5... Events are the guild's responsability, not the RA's.
Sudane Erato: But Gwyn, we must cause recruitung to happen
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's something entirely different, Sudane
Sudane Erato: And...
Sudane Erato: how...
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, yes, we should encourage the Guild to set up 'recruiting events'
You: Right. We need to find an alternate way to encourage membership.. but the RA should not hold events
Sudane Erato: Let me understand..
Sudane Erato: The Guild are the crafts?
You: I think we should comission the guild for an ad campaign.. but that's for another bill
Talen Morgan: we shouldnt be discussing events unless we are talking taxes or problems with events
You: The guild are crafts, culture, etc.
Sudane Erato: the craetors of sellable things?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (of course, since I'm a Guild member myself, and will probably share with Catfart the responsability of event coordination, I'll probably accept bill #5 internally in the Guild :) :) :)
You: I'm a guildy too.
Sudane Erato: sigh**
Talen Morgan: i'm a guild member also and you have my support
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let me try to explain my reasoning...
Roberta Dalek: please do
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Crafts (including events) are the responsability of the Guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's crystal clear.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The RA, of course, may always tell the Guild whatever we please
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But not organize stuff by ourselves!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, my feeling is, this bill has been presented to the wrong place, and I vote against it :)
Sudane Erato: I propose that this not be considered an event...
Talen Morgan: we cant exactly tell the guild whatever we please...they have veto right on any bill we make concerning them
You: Maybe we should ammend it to say that we should comission the guild for the weekly event?
Sudane Erato: That it be considered promotion..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the other hand, of course, I also strongly feel that Ulrika's idea is EXCELLENT, and that we should seriously encourage the Guild to use Ulrika's ideas with the amendments by Sudane
Roberta Dalek: promotional events are events
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's somethin completely different!
Sudane Erato: And that the RA commision promotion
Talen Morgan: we could however as the RA make a bill allotting moneys to the guild for events
You: Right
Sudane Erato: Neualt must promote itself
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Another good idea, talen... since we do the budget and the Guild approves it.
Sudane Erato: And therefore, this is one way
You: I have an idea for another ammendment to the bill.
You: The RA should comission the guild for an advertising campaign for Neualtenburg
Sudane Erato: think: Marketing
You: That encompasses more than events
Talen Morgan: thats not our purpose
Talen Morgan: we can allocate moneys but it is up to the guild to do as they see fit
Roberta Dalek: ok - we have 10 mins to go
Sudane Erato: I don't understand why it is not our purpose
You: I thought the constitution said the RA had the power to comission the guild?
Sudane Erato: our purpose is the survival of Neualtenburg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm yes.
You: But they have veto power through popular vote
Talen Morgan: our purpose is law...the guilds purpose is creation and promotion
Roberta Dalek: Lets vote on the bill as currently stands - and then take any amendments if the bill fallls
You: Nay
You: Votes..?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don't object to comissioning a campaign for the promotion of Neualtenburg,.
Roberta Dalek: nay
Sudane Erato: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But nay on the bill #5!
You: We're voting on the bill as it stands
You: Talen?
Sudane Erato: :)
You: Talen, you there?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we lost Talen, hehe
Roberta Dalek: okay
Roberta Dalek: well we have 3 against and 1 in favour so bill 5 falls
Roberta Dalek: any amendents?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, at least two...
You: I think the general consensus, save talen, was that we comission the guild for the events
You: and alott funding to it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) Change the bill to a 'comission' for the Guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) Allocate a budget
You: Funding which we don't really have..
Sudane Erato: right, we do not
Sudane Erato: without a budget
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I'll gladly donate L$1000 which is all I have now, lol
You: I have 500L on me :)
Roberta Dalek: adhoc allocation of money is silly
Sudane Erato: I have $, too, but there must be a budget before you donate $ to it!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed Roberta *blushes*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so no budget allocation without a budget.
Roberta Dalek: need a budget - bring this back to the next meeting
Sudane Erato: yes!
Sudane Erato: so let me understand
Sudane Erato: the Guild is commissioned to do this
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can only suggest the Guild that we comission them a 'free' event for the promotion of Neualtenburg, using ulrika's suggestions + sudane's amendments.
Roberta Dalek: constutionally all events are the responibility of the guild
Sudane Erato: and we will allocate funds, if they tell us how much
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed Roberta.
You: Hmm, maybe it could be classified as educational?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb talen :)
Talen Morgan: grrr dissconnect
You: Because they'll be informing people about Neualtenburg.
Roberta Dalek: the lindens won't fund it - even if we can make a case for educational
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I doubt the Lindens would get it, but there is no harm to ask Haney...
Talen Morgan: what is the proposed event
Roberta Dalek: they have really restrcitive guidelines - as posted int eh forums
Sudane Erato: what are the costs?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Costs? Labour only, and writing a few notes about Neualtenburg
You: Yes, Roberta, but we can try- it could be considered educational.
Roberta Dalek: the proposed event, and detaiuls must be for the guild
You: We're still on the recruitment events, Talen
Roberta Dalek: let someone put together a proposal with budget and we'll discuss it then
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But roberta... we have NO budget yet!
Sudane Erato: :)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, we have a few events running regularly in Neualtenburg... Catfart should be around every minute
Roberta Dalek: okay - then we are getting way ahead of ourselves
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *any minute
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can suggest the Guild to set up these events...
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And organize them
You: Three minutes left in the meeting.
Roberta Dalek: yep
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bill #5 never mentioned L$ anyway!
You: Right
Sudane Erato: i didn't see any costs
Roberta Dalek: okay - final vote of the meeting - should we suggest to the guild that they do these events?
You: Aye
Roberta Dalek: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I say, let's amend bill #5 as an approved suggestion for the Guild to run weekly promotional events...
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
Sudane Erato: yes, if that is the only way
Roberta Dalek: talen?
Talen Morgan: nay,,,its the responsiblity of all citizens not just the guild
Roberta Dalek: okay - well 4 in favour, one againstr
Sudane Erato: it will not happen unless we commission it
Roberta Dalek: amendment passes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: indeed.
Sudane Erato: but I stay with my aye
Roberta Dalek: we can't comission it without knowing what we are commissioning
Talen Morgan: it wont happen if we commision it and our job is law not the commisioning of projects
Roberta Dalek: someone work that out and we'll do it next meeting
You: Talen, yes it is
Talen Morgan: technically we have overstepped our bounds
Roberta Dalek: 1 min to go
Sudane Erato: I'll work on something
You: We comission projects for the guild. It's in the constitution
Sudane Erato: try and get Cat involved
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We're comissioning the Guild to run weekly promotional events, engaging citizens for that purpose.
Sudane Erato: :)
Roberta Dalek: people sort this out and bring this back
Sudane Erato: yes
Roberta Dalek: time is up
Roberta Dalek: we've had a really productive meeting today
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah well. We did the best we could, lol
Sudane Erato: #6 next week
Roberta Dalek: passed loads of business
You: Good thing, because I'm getting hungry ;)
Sudane Erato: :)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Lance :)
Roberta Dalek: someone post the chat log to the forum
Sudane Erato: I will
Roberta Dalek: ty sudane
Talen Morgan: someone show me where the casino is proposed to go so I have an idea on size
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks, Sudane!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, let's visit the casino!
Sudane Erato: Talen, I'll go and look
Roberta Dalek: so great stuff - and more next week
Roberta Dalek: thanks everyone for attending
Sudane Erato: and Roberta, lets set a time
Roberta Dalek: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks for chairing it, Roberta :)
You: Right, when on what day?
Roberta Dalek: no problem
You: I can work around my schedule for most of this week- I just remembered I'm off this week :)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'd say same place and same time... it was worked out quite well this day!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lucky you, lance :)
You: But wednesday and tomorrow could be hard for me
Talen Morgan: whered ya get the penguin...I need one lol
Roberta Dalek: we mean for the survey
You: Right
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, lol, sorry!
Roberta Dalek: yeah next meeting same time/place next week

--- THE END ----------------------------------------------------

Wow! Great meeting everyone. I wish I could have been there.

Just to clarify something. I did not start the casino. The two-walled structure across the bridge is a recreation of Casa de Retiro Espiritual in Seville created by Emilio Ambasz as shown in Wallpaper* magazine.

I started it months ago when I was feeling creative. Feel free to delete it, if you haven't already. I'll be in world tomorrow (for the first time in 5 weeks) to remove it, if it hasn't been done already.

~Ulrika~

Looks like you got a lot of things sorted.

Much as I appreciate the logs, some sort of summery of points and votes taken would be good.

I think the suggestion of talking to Billy about renting one of his Sims is a good idea.

Just to summerise what you want the guild to do:

Create a Casino:
Thanks to Ulrika for clearing up the query over the exisitng structure.
Talen, I confirm that we would like you to build the casino. If you go for a medival design that fits in with the city, thats fine. If you decide that you want a diffferent style, I want to look at your ideas before you start. Do you need funds for the machines themselves?

An Advertising campaign for the City:
I'd like to discuss this further with guild members, but dont have a problem with it.

Rental boxes for residential properties:
That shouldnt be a prroblem. I will need to know who the money is going to go to

A recruiting event:


Did I miss anything?

The Casino is nearly complete but turned out nothing Like I expected...sometimes happens with my builds they have a life of thier own. It is decidedly not medieval . When I get in world today I will build another more medieval version and let everyone decide what they would rather have. I will be finished with this tonight.

A few things to remember concerning the casino. People need to know it exists and the machines need to be seen....often people have no wish to gamble but are drawn in by the colors and sounds. So at best the structure will need to encompass some modern attributes as well.

Either way by later tonight or early tomorrow I will show you what I have come up with....and if you arent online I can send copies of the builds to anyone that would like to see.

As far as the machines are concerned We will need some funding to buy some machines...I have a bunch of machines that are transfer enabled and will drop them .

Talen, sounds great! Looking forward to seeing.

As far as purchasing more machines, please hold off til next week. We're preparing a bill for this weekend which will allow setting up a bank account for the casino. Folks who can advance some funds, both for machines and for the cash float needed to operate, can put into that account. Then we'll have a system to pay them back out of the proceeds.

Or, you can buy them, and this new account can pay you back. But, I think, better to hold off for just a few days.

Thanks!

Sudane

Groovy!

We always planned to make the structure on the far side of the gap be modern or unusual, so feel free to have fun with it. I'm excited we have another builder!

I have $30k that I've been saving to donate to the city. I would be happy to use that for the purchase of the games. It can also be used as a buffer for winnings, as you mentioned that we needed. Will we have Uma be the casino bank?

~Ulrika~

If uma is the city treasurer it might be better to have another alt started specifically for tyhe casino ...so we know where everything stands and we can track the casino progress through the daily logs on the website.

By the way I'm running extremely late due to an emergency meeting and it looks like I'll have the builds done by tomorrow instead of tonight

I agree strongly with that idea, that a separate alt be used for the casino (and perhaps one as well for the other major items of city revenue), keeping Uma for the overall city "bank account". We'll try to post a specific proposal for this before the weekend, so that the RA can approve it quickly.

The concept being that the casino is an institution of the Neualt city government. And that the RA has the charge to approve the budget for the city, with the Guild holding veto power over that; the feeling at the last RA meeting was that we should go ahead and propose a financial system for handling the money flow of the casino.

So we'll try and get that posted very quickly.

Sudane

Only had a lil time tonoght but the casino is just about done....will definately be done tomorrow....it incorporates both old and modern.just have to play with the roof some more

Casino is done and sitting in the proposed place.....its a mixture of old and modern ...I will photoshop a Casino sign for it....Let me know what you all think.

Talen, I think that the casino is fabulous! Its a kind of classy "Byzantine" kind of building that every 13th century Bavarian city that I'm aware of was dying to have!

It is seriously great. Hoping we can be operating there very soon. Perhaps some kind of opening event could be done?

And, god!, I've been dying for a smoke since I arrived in SL! Thanks Gywn.

Sudane

You: oops
Roberta Dalek: and doesn't need to be in the same name
Roberta Dalek: hi gywn
Sudane Erato: hi!
You: hi : )
Sudane Erato: : )
You: so how are you both? :0
Penguin for 2005-3-6 gave you Neualt Kelly Linden Post.
Sudane Erato: OK here
Penguin for 2005-3-6 gave you Neualt Money Management.
Penguin for 2005-3-6 gave you Neualt New Home.
Sudane Erato: how is RL work?
Roberta Dalek: I'm fine - it's cold and miserable here - and my heating still doesn't work : (
Roberta Dalek: but apart from that fine : )
You: aww Roberta...
You: btw, wondeful dress : )
Sudane Erato: we should all move to Lisbon
You: RL work is 'under control'
Roberta Dalek: ty - not by me...
You: lol right, here the sun shines and we have 15 degrees Celsius :0
You:
Sudane Erato: : )
Roberta Dalek: woo
You: ok, let me shortly read all the notes in our friendly penguin...
Sudane Erato: They're long : (
You: oh yes : )
Roberta Dalek: but ther is only 3
Sudane Erato: but the bills have been on the forum
You: Yes, and one is not 'a bill' but more some ideas for the private sim...
Sudane Erato: i just got that feedback minutes ago
Sudane Erato: answer to a question I posted
You: mm hmm, ok, sounds interesting : )
You: Any one of you has previewed 1.6 so far?
Roberta Dalek: yes
You: me too : )
Sudane Erato: I've just read the release notes, and the new forum thread about reactions
Roberta Dalek: international keyboard support, unicode, streaming video
Roberta Dalek: the first two are useful for the projekt
You: all those work wonderfully!
You: AND a searchable inventory, lol
Sudane Erato: and the private island business about group deeding
You: Ah yes. That's useful for Neualtenburg...
Sudane Erato: ah, i think we don't know yet
You: whew... 'Ulrika Zugzwang be coerced'...lol
Sudane Erato: : )
Sudane Erato: this baby business : )
You: aww the poor future mother...
Sudane Erato: she hasn't been around for days
You: Anyway, I still think we should simply copy & paste everything.
Sudane Erato: but will the new land be an EXACT copy?
You: It's the easiest way to make a swift move!
Roberta Dalek: do we want an exact copy?
Sudane Erato: if not, then adjustments will need to be made
You: Oh. Perhaps not... but I still think if will help us to move quickly
You: We can always change later...
Sudane Erato: well, I can certainly agree with that, if it works
You: Apparently, yes. However, I now know why I couldn't contact Haney, lol
You: You know, he left LL...
Sudane Erato: oh!
You: I haven't read who's replacing him.
Sudane Erato: bad time, with the new version coming
You: yes, hmm
Sudane Erato: any idea when the new version will hit?
You: hmm they'll be very, very careful this time
Sudane Erato: 2 months?
You: Hmm
You: I'd say, earlier
You: But at the very least, 2 weeks : )
Sudane Erato: good, in time for a move?
You: But people uncovered lots of bugs so far...
Sudane Erato: yes, they have
You: Ah. Good point. Hmm, yes, I guess so
You: Ok, hmm, in the mean time, I've been reading the first bill.
You: However, we have pending things from the last meeting...
Roberta Dalek: shall we start then? It doesn't look like anyone else is coming
Sudane Erato: OK
Sudane Erato: yes
You: Yes, let's start
Roberta Dalek: was there a meeting last week?
You: No : )
You: My fault, really, I didn't manage to send an email...
You: It seems that the in-world IMs are never enough.
Roberta Dalek: people don't get group IMs if they are offline
You: And I expect Talen to come over later... he never manages to be awake so early, lol
Sudane Erato: that's odd, cause many folks are very lax with emails
You: Aaah is that so, Roberta?
You: That makes sense : (
Sudane Erato: : )
You: I also have a folder with the calling cards of all members...
You: Ok... Hmm
Sudane Erato: : ) now called friends : )
You: ah yes : )
Roberta Dalek: ok - lets start
You: So, let's see what we have pending from the last meeting?
Sudane Erato: old business ?
Roberta Dalek: Gywn - what business do we have left over from last wek?
You: Can we have Roberta chair again? I vote on that, she's so good at keeping order, lol
Sudane Erato: she was VERY good!
Roberta Dalek: ok - i'll be the ordermeisterin
You: lol : )
Sudane Erato: : )
You: So, we have the renting business...
You: We have a report from the team who did the evaluation : (
Sudane Erato: sorry, didn't bring it
You: Perhaps you could talk a bit about your conclusions... (just for the record)
You: Oh let me see...
You: hmm Sudane... you send me that as a notecard, or as an email?
Sudane Erato: ?
Roberta Dalek: its on the forums
Sudane Erato: i know I posted it
Roberta Dalek: shall I copy and paste
Sudane Erato: but it was an email, cause it had a jpg
You: forum, ok
Sudane Erato: kind of needs the jpg to make sense
You: Yes, well
Sudane Erato: altho there were a number of subsatntial conclusions
You: Anyway, if I recall it correctly, we need to rebuild things a lot.
Roberta Dalek gave you nberg rentals.
You: Yes, yes.
Sudane Erato: arrived at mostly by Roberta's judgement
You: aaah ty !
Norm Drago is offline
Sudane Erato: which make very good sense to me
SL Exchange Magic Box white: SL Exchange - Delivered item Magic Ring 1.9c.
Sudane Erato: graet ! ty
You: So, only 8 places 'fit' for rental - that's too low.
Sudane Erato: now talen has volunteered to fix things
You: Although the others only need 'snow removal'
You: Ah, excellent!
Sudane Erato: but he has relied on objects from Ulrika
Roberta Dalek: nothing seems to have happened - i had a look earlier
Sudane Erato: and she is MIA
You: Oh, wait wait
Sudane Erato: yes, nothing has happened
Roberta Dalek gave you residential working.
You: There is a 'box' inthe Marktplatz where you can get the textures
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: did I put it there????
Roberta Dalek: well she made the prefab houses - but she has a more advanced one she wants to sell
You: and talen, as officer, can remove snow, etc
Sudane Erato: don't think so
Roberta Dalek: so he is trying to get a copy/mod version off ulrika of the primitive one
You: aww I see
Sudane Erato: but he found he couldn't do something or other
You: well, Talen has Ulrika's email
Sudane Erato: so he's done nothing so far
You: aww, dang
You: that's really too bad!
Roberta Dalek: he can't move them - but i think he should be able to delete them
You: ah!
You: Well, I'd be happy o 'remove snow'
You: *to
Sudane Erato: not so easy
Roberta Dalek: removing snow is different
Roberta Dalek: thats terraforming
You: this would mean an adequate amount of places to rent... not so easy?
Sudane Erato: the land has to be pushed down
You: Yes...
You: And can't talen do that?
Roberta Dalek: he can as an officer i presume
You: Hmm
Roberta Dalek: the problem is that the hosues were just plonked down - some overlap, some are not accessible, the land was not prepared...
You: Yes, since the land is group owned, the officers should be able to do terraforming
Roberta Dalek: the prefab is also poor quality tbh
You: Oh, ok. So -not easy- but not really -impossible-
Roberta Dalek: and they are very small
Sudane Erato: right, it looks like the houses must be removed to smooth the land
You: I agree on that, Roberta, but the point is, how much time will that take??
You: Weeks?
You: Even assuming we could enlisten our overeager builder Eugene to help Talen...
Sudane Erato: : )
Roberta Dalek: I don't know - but we wouldn't really get any customers as they stand
Sudane Erato: Talen had said "very quickly"
You: Yes. That's something we could all agree on : )
You: Ok
Roberta Dalek: the houses are 9x9.5
You: I love Talen, lol
You: So, you mean, they're too small, Roberta?
Roberta Dalek: I'm not even sure they are functional
Roberta Dalek: often a bed can be 3 x 3
You: hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn *thinks*
Roberta Dalek: but they are what we have at the moment
Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
You: Ok, hmm... plan B...
You: If they're too small for homes, are they big enough for shops?
You: What do you think?
Sudane Erato: another Roberta question
Roberta Dalek: they are small - but maybe for shops
Roberta Dalek: maybe with a 25 prim limit or something - the smallest type of shop
Sudane Erato: I will point out that Charlotte Gillespie has squatted rather happily in one
Roberta Dalek: ok
You: Yes, I remember Ulrika telling that you couldn't have more than 25 prims per building anyway...
You: lol, true, true
Roberta Dalek: nobody would rent a house with 25 prims
You: She has moved on, Sudane, and anyway, Charlotte is a character : )
Sudane Erato: : )
You: I agree, Roberta... : (
You: So, hmm
You: This still would mean getting rid at least of the snow.
You: Because just 8 shops, that's really not enough!
Roberta Dalek: they have been designed for beauty not for function
You: *sigh*
Sudane Erato: I suspect that if we get into this kind of fundamental problem about house rental...
Roberta Dalek: but when we move we will have more space!
You: Will that mean, completely redesign everything? oh my...
Sudane Erato: that we should prepare a whole new rent concept
You: I have no other option besides agreeing with you, Sudane : (
Sudane Erato: the old idea was based on flawed concepts perhaps
Sudane Erato: so we need a new one
You: Unfortunately true : (
You: Well, I think people NEVER really thought about renting stuff
Sudane Erato: oh yes?
Roberta Dalek: I'm not sure thought was given to making the city functional
You: Well
You: Perhaps it was
You: but things were finished in a 'quick and dirty' way
Sudane Erato: it was meant as a tourist attraction
Sudane Erato: where looks were very important
You: Ok, what do you suggest then? We should simply drop the whole renting concept?
Sudane Erato: can we suggest that shops around the main square go ahead
Sudane Erato: ?
Roberta Dalek: yes
You: 'yes' on dropping renting altogether, or 'yes' for shops only on the main square?
Roberta Dalek: yes for shops in the main square going ahead
You: well, i agree... let me recheck your notes and the map...
Sudane Erato: that would at least get things started
Sudane Erato: primary problems there are snow
Sudane Erato: and one floor missing
You: yes, hmm
You: 4 shops operationl right now
Roberta Dalek: and that talen's priority should be fixing the shops
Sudane Erato: : ): ) and one shop with no door
You: and the rest is just a floor (easy) and snow (slightly more complicated)
You: door is easy
You: ok
Roberta Dalek: who is renting the shops?
Roberta Dalek: I presume no-one is actually paying...
Sudane Erato: I proposed that rent be imposed
You: No no, the shops are not being used
Sudane Erato: well, Ulrika is using one
You: Well, even Ulrika's is mostly 'decoration'
Sudane Erato: and a handbag dealer another
Roberta Dalek: two are - ulrika has one, and one of her friends has naother
Roberta Dalek: I have a rento cube - we need to work out how many prims we can allow and then set a market rent
Roberta Dalek: I can do that - with sudane?
You: 25 is a good start
Sudane Erato: good!
You: I agree!
Sudane Erato: I'm game
You: So... two things:
You: 1) Get talen and the Guild overall to fix the shops
Roberta Dalek: do we require use of the vendor - if we do then we can't really charge rent as well
You: Ah...
You: well...
You: yes
Sudane Erato: what are the issues there?
You: I mean... we need to charge for taxes, lol
Roberta Dalek: the vendor takes taxes on sales
You: Drats, we NEED to have a functional Guild!
Sudane Erato: yes
You: These are all Guild issues.
Roberta Dalek: the vendor is something like 8 prims
Roberta Dalek: so we are looking at 3 vendors per shop
You: Hmm not much, really
You: Well... since we aren't using the rest of the prims for renting...
You: we can raise the prim limit
You: on the other hand
Sudane Erato: could you explain how the venders and possible rent interact?
Roberta Dalek: but it may not be possible to fit many vendors in the shops
You: the shops are too small to have, say 10 or 20 prims
You: Yes.
Roberta Dalek: as they are prety latge
Roberta Dalek: I couldn't find a new vendor to play with
You: and I mean 10 to 20 VENDORS, not prims
You: Oh, the best solution so far is the Gigas SecondServer system
You: It's free, lol
You: The only question is how to arrange it in order to pay taxes
You: I'm really silly... uh, our vendor works
You: You just need to get the scripts which interact with the web site
You: So, no need for other vendors
Roberta Dalek: they have a script that can be added for stock purposes
You: I mean, no need for other vendors SCRIPTS.
You: And yes
You: But you can change the scripts and make a one-prim version
You: well, eventually a 3 prim version
Roberta Dalek: I would really like a copy of the vendor to look at
You: (for back and forward buttons)
Sudane Erato: ah
You: So do I, lol
Roberta Dalek: but talen or one of the scripters could modify
You: I could...
You: I could even do a one-prim version which shows a dialog box for 'next', 'prev', etc
You: Hmm
You: Or ask Lance to do one for us,.
You: based on the current model
Roberta Dalek: but smaller, and less prim heavy
You: Ok, anyway, technology aside...
You: The problem is not how many prims the vendor has
Sudane Erato: Can we charge rent AND sales tax?
You: But how we set the 'rules' for renting.
You: Now that's a good question, Sudane, and I have a suggestion to make
Roberta Dalek: I don't think we can do both - or if we do we need to charge a very small rent
You: I'd suggest the following...
You: We keep the sales tax
You: And rent the shops for, say, L$100 a week (we can discuss the price further)
You: So...
You: Taxes are 'deducted' from rent. Meaning...
Sudane Erato: whew!
You: If you sell L$1000 per week in items, you won't need to pay rent! (sales tax is currently 10% I think)
Sudane Erato: will one script handle this?

You: HM. Good question.
Sudane Erato: there's an interaction between rent amount and sales amount
You: because the best you can see is if someone has paid MORE than L$ 100 in taxes one week
You: lol, actually, in my country, there is a similar idea for our RL taxes...
You: You pay them in advance, three times per year : )
Sudane Erato: : )
Sudane Erato: called estimated tax
You: If you can have more deductions than the amount you have paid, the State pays you back the difference : )
Sudane Erato: ah yes
You: Not really 'estimated tax', that's what you ALSO have...
Sudane Erato: and the State makes money on the float!
You: Oh yes!
You: You bet!
Sudane Erato: very sly
You: They pay you back after, say, 2 years or so
Roberta Dalek: ok...
Sudane Erato: 2 years!
You: So, in Neualtenburg, this would be somewhat similar...
Roberta Dalek: ordermeisterin calling to order
You: you pay 'advance tax' every week
Sudane Erato: I have a proposal
You: ok Roberta : )
Roberta Dalek: Sudane
Sudane Erato: that we engage in a trial period before the move
Sudane Erato: that occupancy arrangement be strictly limited until then
Sudane Erato: and that it be discovered what the actual traffic is
Sudane Erato: or, what venders can actually sell
Sudane Erato: this would be a "market" basis for charges
Roberta Dalek: ok agreed
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Sudane Erato: with, hopefully a bargain for the experimenters
Sudane Erato: but, clear transition to new deals after the move
You: So, on that 'trial' phase, they wouldn't pay either taxes or renting?
Sudane Erato: no, i think they should pay taxes
Roberta Dalek: I think just taxes
Sudane Erato: its the lowest risk
You: Ah. And renting for free
You: Ok
You: I fully agree : )
Sudane Erato: because its based on volume
Roberta Dalek: yes
Roberta Dalek: and we don't know what the traffic will be like
Sudane Erato: right
You: Let's say, 1 month free trial?
Sudane Erato: until the move
Roberta Dalek: we will also be able to see if the vendors work
Sudane Erato: yes
You: ok
Roberta Dalek: I agree sudane - and will help implement
Sudane Erato: great!
You: Aye on that proposal!
Roberta Dalek: although I have have a conflict of interest as I wopuld like to rent one
Sudane Erato: regarding sales, I am totally ignorant
You: So do I, lol
Sudane Erato: LOL
Sudane Erato: i think that is great
Sudane Erato: we'll have inside info
You: Ah. restriction on sales, they can sell anything, so long as it's PG, right?
Sudane Erato: AND traffic already
Roberta Dalek: yes
Sudane Erato: yes, unfortunately
Sudane Erato: i think the PG is a big burden for us
You: lol, not really 'unfortunately' : )
You: aaah well
Sudane Erato: do we need something written?
You: Ok, what is the next step? Asking for a copy of the script?
Roberta Dalek: okay so the steps - 1. talen and the guild need to make the places rentable
You: We should have something written, yes...
Roberta Dalek: 2. we need as a minimum copies of the vendors
Roberta Dalek: but really the scripts as well
You: yes
Sudane Erato: I volunteer to read this transcript and make a written resolution
Roberta Dalek: currently we have neither
Sudane Erato: as you can see, I spew those out rather readily
Roberta Dalek:
Sudane Erato: : )
You:
Sudane Erato: while we wait for the renovations, can these venders be ready?
You: Oh sure, this work can be in parallel
Sudane Erato: great
You: I presume that we will give the current vendor away...
Roberta Dalek: yes
Sudane Erato: I have been talking a good deal with Catfart..
Roberta Dalek: great
Sudane Erato: I'll try to get him moving re the Guild
You: And a 'special' version with just one prim, that anyone can incorporate into a new vendor. That should be easy
You: Ok, sounds great, Sudane!
Sudane Erato: great!
You: Ok, what was our pending unfinished business from the last meeting...?
You: Ah yes, the Casino...
Roberta Dalek: casino looks great
Sudane Erato: Can we pass this shop thing pending an acceptable written version?
Roberta Dalek: yes
You: Aye
Roberta Dalek: we need to get moving
Sudane Erato: aye
Sudane Erato: casino
You: So, the Casino is ok., Now we need the game machines.
Roberta Dalek: shop motion passed
Roberta Dalek: and the casino alt
You: I talked to Eggy, he's unwilling to 'give' us his machines
Sudane Erato: I have proposed in the money bill mechanisms to start the casino
You: Yes.
Sudane Erato: Talen has agreed to be the first casino alt
You: Ok...
Sudane Erato: and to contribute machines
You: yes
Sudane Erato: and we can buy more machines as needed
Roberta Dalek: yes
You: No!
Roberta Dalek: and talen knows which machines are worth having
Sudane Erato: there should be enough $$ to fund the startup
You: We don't control the treasury : (
Sudane Erato: Catfart and I have consulted closely about this money bill
You: Ah, I want to hear that.
Sudane Erato: i think if passed it is constitutional
You: Ah, lol
Sudane Erato: since I don't understand that aspect anyway
Kai Nyak is offline
Ky Callahan is online
Sudane Erato: but I do understand the bill
You: Hmm, the problem is, with ulrika 'off', we haven't a working Scientific Council
You: who should ratify our decisions
You: ah, I have an idea, lol
You: it's pretty easy....
Sudane Erato: when she returns, she can throw it out, if she wants
You: let's pass a bill that the SC needs to disapprove (veto) in a week after the resolution has been voted upon.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Roberta Dalek: so we don't get stagnation
You: Yes!
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: have you been able to look at the details?
You: actually, the same applies to the Guild veto as well.
You: erm, and no, Sudane, I just remember some details from our conversations in-world
Sudane Erato: well, I propose a finance committee
Sudane Erato: 3 RA members
Sudane Erato: guildmesiter
Sudane Erato: and another Guild member
Sudane Erato: 5 altogether
Sudane Erato: 3 of the members would start alts
Sudane Erato: for the three basic $$ functions I think we need to start
You: yes, all that I remember
Sudane Erato: and I proposed the names of all but the 2nd Guyild member
Sudane Erato: all have agreed to serve
You: Ok
Sudane Erato: I also advised limited out and out gifts
Sudane Erato: thats the quick of it
Sudane Erato: that clear reporting is of the essence
Roberta Dalek: yes
You: Oh yes, certainly
Sudane Erato: I did not take into account a suggestion that Roberta just made
You: Ok, one question... will all 5 members have access to any of the three alts?
Sudane Erato: which is that the CC on an alt can be changed to another RL person
Sudane Erato: yes all 5 have all PWs
You: Ok
You: But that's not a problem, I mean, the CC...
Sudane Erato: thats the core responsibility
Roberta Dalek: so if a person leaves we have continuity
Sudane Erato: well , i feel that all RA members should be reappointed after each election
You: Uh, I usually set up lots of people with a randomly generated CC number (a service available in my country, lol) and then they can change that back to their own CC number when they want...
Sudane Erato: you'll have to explain that to me..
Sudane Erato: never heard of that
You: Well, the point is, you can easily change the CC number later...
Roberta Dalek: yes
You: aah lol, well, Internet shopping never caught up in Portugal because people were too afraid of their CC numbers getting 'caught'
Roberta Dalek: but it would get charged wouldn't it?
Sudane Erato: hehe
You: So they invented a system where the banking authority around here can, via a web site they own, generate random CC numbers, accepted in the whole Visa network. You set up a money limit yourself, say, just 10 US$, which is enough for starting an account
You: and they have just 1 usage
You: That way, there is no way you can do frauds with CC numbers : )
Roberta Dalek: great idea
You: oh yes, it's awesome, lol
You: It also means that theoretically anyone could create an infinite number of alt accounts, lol
Sudane Erato: well, I suggest, based on this ...
Sudane Erato: that the bill be changed slightly regarding the transfer of alts
Sudane Erato: that the transfer happen only as a CC change
You: We only need basic accounts, so it's no problem for me to create three new ones...
Sudane Erato: rather than as a new alt
You: yes, precisely
Sudane Erato: but, I don't understand fully
Sudane Erato: each of those random craeted numbers has a RL person behind it, no?
You: it's an 'investment' of just 24 Euros, I think I can afford that easily : )
You: Ah well. Yes, for the purposes of fraud detection - if Visa wants to investigate, the banking authority will be able to tell the name of the person behind the virtual CC numbers easily.
You: However, in terms of LL, they're different CC numbers!
Sudane Erato: Yes, but also in terms of SL..
Sudane Erato: Someone MUST assume responsiblity for the CC alt
You: Oh sure.
Sudane Erato: there must be a RL person taking $$ responsibility
You: I would rather prefer that the three people contributing an alt would be someone taking the responsability using their RL persona
Sudane Erato: persona is not important, just the responsibility
Sudane Erato: which is why the concern about transfer
You: But i just mentioned that because you can CHANGE the CC number every time the alt 'switches hands'
You: No problem about 'transferring'... the new RA member who 'inherits' the alt just goes into the backoffice at secondlife.com/accounts and changes the CC details to reflect their own
You: So, that's very easily done!
Sudane Erato: yes, thats what I thought
You: Since the card numbers there aren't displayed fully, there is also no risk in 'capturing' credit card numbers : )
You: So it's pretty safe, I think
Sudane Erato: any other problems with the bill?
You: Ah.
You: No, not in general, Sudane.
You: Perhaps the issue is: how much 'starting money' should be in the accounts?
Sudane Erato: that we can work out.
Sudane Erato: the amount needed for the casino account has been pretty well defined by Talen
Roberta Dalek: in principal this is all fine
You: I'd say, at the very least, L$ 20,000 plus L$ 10,000 for buying the machines.
You: ah yes? let's hear talen's proposal!
Sudane Erato: the amount needed for the general account is determined by the new sim purchase
You: Ah. I thought we were just discussing the Casino!
Sudane Erato: Talen says the same, altho less for the machines
Sudane Erato: good point.
You: Ok, ok, let's be clear on that...
Sudane Erato: are we discussing the casino...?
You: Just the Casino, or also for the New Neualtenburg?
Sudane Erato: or the money bill?
Roberta Dalek: we are discussing the bill aren't we?
Roberta Dalek: at least I thought we were
Sudane Erato: the money bill wasn't intended to propose the amounts needed for each account
Sudane Erato: just the structure of finances
Roberta Dalek: Do we have agreement on the money bill?
You: Ok, just re-checkec the post in the forums...
You: yes, I do agree
Roberta Dalek: I agree
Sudane Erato: well, subject to change in the language of the transfer, I agree
Sudane Erato: great!
You: yes, subject to that slight change.
Roberta Dalek: great - passed!
Sudane Erato: I'll get together with Cat soon
You: yay, we have a Finance Committee!
Roberta Dalek: does the casino need any more from us or can it just go now?
Sudane Erato: he will have the rental account : his alt
You: Question: should we transfer part of the funds from the Uma Bauhaus alt to the Casino?
Sudane Erato: no...
Roberta Dalek: do we have any funds in uma?
You: Or start from scratch?
Sudane Erato: I think they should go to the general account...
You: Well, we should have a few thousand L$....
Roberta Dalek: yes
Sudane Erato: for good practice
Roberta Dalek: agreed
You: Ok. So, the question remains... will the 5 Finance Committee members agree upon a figure to start the Casino? (which is the urgent discussion right now)

You: And discussion point #2, new sim, but let's finish the Casino for now...
Sudane Erato: OK
Roberta Dalek: well the finance committee isn't all here
You: hmm... brb, just 1 min
Sudane Erato: we can suggest 30K for the casino
Sudane Erato: right,
You: back!
Sudane Erato: : )
Roberta Dalek: wb
You: Ok, what is your feeling on that, Sudane, will they 'accept' to finance the treasury in equal parts?
You: Do you expect some further contributions?
You: Should the RA ask for those contributions?
Sudane Erato: The accounts will not be funded equally, but by need
You: oh.
Sudane Erato: yes, I think we should ask for contributions
Sudane Erato: because more smaller ones, rather than a few big ones
Sudane Erato: are better
You: Ok!
You: Hmm, is there any expected 'return', you know, like when the State issues bonds or so?
Sudane Erato: but the finance committee can ultimately appeal if mor e cash is nneded
You: Appeal... to whom?
You: To the citizens?
Sudane Erato: YES, that must be discussed...
Sudane Erato: but not necessarily now
Sudane Erato: yes, to the citizens
You: Ok... hmm... I have an idea, to be discussed with catfart, who is an awesome programmer...
Sudane Erato: we will need multiple funding sources.. but not everyone is needed, of course
You: basically, it's a special vendor which issues 'bonds', say, for L$1000 apiece
Sudane Erato: but all the contributions must be loans
Sudane Erato: bonds
You: The money goes straight into one of the three alt accounts
Sudane Erato: good
You: The bonds are 'unique' objects, but you can transfer them.
You: This is rather easy to do!
Sudane Erato: is the source recorded?
Sudane Erato: the owner?
You: yes, if you wish, it could record that...
You: Pretty easy to do!
Sudane Erato: in this case, we must record it somehow
You: hmm, Jacqueline will drool over that idea
Sudane Erato: ?
You: ah, you know, she loves that kind of stuff...
You: She's always thinking of ways to replicate RL stuff inside SL.
Sudane Erato: I know little about what we can do with money accounting in SL
Sudane Erato: except that it is primitive in the extreme
You: I think it makes some sense... because that way, people will be able to know exactly how you have participated in funding Neualtenburg
Sudane Erato: so that record keeping is of the highest priority
You: and since bonds are transferrable, they have market value
You: hah : )
Sudane Erato: the funds are loans, and must be repaid
You: that opens up very interesting ideas
You: YES.
You: That's the idea!
Roberta Dalek: ok
You: Ok, I definitely propose that all 'loans' to Neualtenburg are doing by issuing bonds through a vendor. Bonds are scripted to know who are the current owners
You: We can set it up at the Marktplatz
Sudane Erato: how fast?
Sudane Erato: I'd like to get Talen working that casino fast
You: Well, if Catfart has some time, this won't take longer than one hour of a very competent programmer
You: Well, again, this is basic stuff, but I also agree that the money can come in first, and we can send the bonds later...
Sudane Erato: OK great
You: and set up the 'bond vendor' just after the Casino is completed
Sudane Erato: we can assign them as bonds manually
Sudane Erato: good
You: yes, at the beginning!
You: I imagine we'll be paying interest on those bonds in the future, heh heh
Sudane Erato: that we must discuss
You: Not today.
Sudane Erato: even 0 interest bonds are valid
You: Oh! Of course, I meant that for starters!
Sudane Erato: but, less valid
Sudane Erato: so, we are agreed
Roberta Dalek: yes
You: Oh yes, I agree fully, lol
Sudane Erato: : )
You: I love it!
You: : )
Sudane Erato: 30 minutes
Roberta Dalek: yep
You: Anything else pending...?
You: Can we move to the new bills?
Roberta Dalek: the new home bill?
Sudane Erato: regarding the new neualt
You: Ok.
Sudane Erato: the primary issue is the ownership issue
You: Yes, since 'layout' can be defined later.
Sudane Erato: my money plan handles that
Sudane Erato: but it is aa kludge
You: I agree.
Sudane Erato: very ackward
Roberta Dalek: well the owner is the alt
Roberta Dalek: so it shouldn't change
You: Agreed.
Sudane Erato: yes, your cc proposal makes it much more feasible
Sudane Erato: so that the RL person simply rotates
You: Ah yes, well, that's just a slight change in the wording...
You: Yes!
Sudane Erato: behind the alt
Sudane Erato: We must name the ALT!
Sudane Erato: The owner!
You: Ah, lol
Sudane Erato: God
You: the surname is never fixed...
You: God, hmm
You: Wilhelm IV
You:
Sudane Erato: unto whom all things ...
You: Kaiser?
Sudane Erato: hehe
You: 'God' sounds a bit, uh, you know...
Roberta Dalek: yeah
Sudane Erato: remember, we may want to broaden the German theme
You: Ah. Right.
You: Master?
Roberta Dalek: well it depends which sirnames are available
You: FinanceMaster?
Sudane Erato: no, i pass on God : )
You: Treasurer?
Roberta Dalek: is Leader still available, for example
You: yes, Leader is not bad...
Sudane Erato: it sounds like a cult : (
Roberta Dalek: I think we can trust whoever sets up the alts to be sensible
Sudane Erato: ok
Sudane Erato: AND WE CAN ALWAYS SWITCH ALTS, if needed
Roberta Dalek: no religeous or national/monarchy refs
Sudane Erato: yes
You: yes, I agree, Roberta...
Sudane Erato: is that bill approvable?
Roberta Dalek: yes
You: The leader surname is currently available
Roberta Dalek: I approve
You: Ah well. I wonder about item #5
You: Meaning, hmm, how long will it take for us to get L$ 200,000 or so...
You: Because we have the 'time limit'
Sudane Erato: Gwyn, thats the core question of Neualt
You: yes!
Sudane Erato: we will need to buy before we have the funds from revenues
Roberta Dalek: yes
Sudane Erato: there will need to be more bonds
You: Ok, let's go on a 'double or nothing' risk-taking gamble... yes, I agree with the bill, just changing slightly the wording to allow for easy rotation of the alts
Sudane Erato: and therefore, some will clearly take a risk
You: Indeed they will
Sudane Erato: the alt rotation is defined in the money bill
You: yes.
You: That's why I agree
Sudane Erato: there is a necessary linkage
Sudane Erato: oh, i see
Sudane Erato: yes
You: That was just meant to clarify the issue in the records, lol
Sudane Erato: good
You: So, it's an aye from me as well.
Sudane Erato: aye
Roberta Dalek: aye
Roberta Dalek: passed
You: On the other hand, I disagree with the 'coercing' part
Sudane Erato: : )
You: That's just an itty bit detail.
Sudane Erato: we can remove it
You: But ulrika may really be unable to propose a design...
You: Yes, at least replace the word with 'kindly ask'
Sudane Erato: I would guess she would very much like to be included
Sudane Erato: which is why the forceful languauge
You: and make the change to New Neualtenburg without the need of a plan, since at the very least, we can do a copy&paste of Anzere
Sudane Erato: OK, i defer on that
Sudane Erato: since I know less about how that will be done
Selador Cellardoor is offline
You: Ah, yes, she WANTS to be a part of it, and I really am in favour of keeping her name there... just not make it all depend on her plan
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: so we will revise the wording of that bill too
You: so, perhaps just renaming that from 'coerce' to 'ask'
Sudane Erato: OK
You: or 'the RA will appoint...'
You: also means if Ulrika can't do it, she can delegate to someone else
Sudane Erato: yes
You: Or if she doesnt even do that, we'll do that instead, but ulrika will be noticed.
Sudane Erato: good
You: Meaning... if she really, really can't, she'll have a 'last word' on everything, if we need to give the task to somebody else.
Sudane Erato: OK
You: Ok, wonderful!
You: wow, that WAS productive, we still have 15 minutes left
Sudane Erato: hehe
You: Shall we, for the record, gladly embrace Catfart as Acting Guildmeister, and give a loud hooray? : ) lol
Roberta Dalek: ok
Sudane Erato: Agreed!
Roberta Dalek: and then shall we finish early?
Sudane Erato: : )
Sudane Erato: yes
You: Actually, we need to do the same for the Scientific Council...
Sudane Erato: ?
You: I mean, have an Acting Professor for that
You: Or Dean
Sudane Erato: who is the council now?
You: Since Ulrika has that position, and we have a non-working council
You: ah
You: I think both you and I are on the Council, Sudane...
You: And Kathy yamamoto if I remember correctly!
Sudane Erato: I'm not aware of that
You: So, this means asking Kathy...
You: No?
You: Didn't you apply?
Sudane Erato: arent RA and Council membership exclusive?
You: Yes.
You: Well wait
Sudane Erato: I did, but...
You: 'exclusive' as in 'not being able to vote on both simultaneously'
Sudane Erato: things took a different course : )
Sudane Erato: no..
You: yes, same here, lol
Sudane Erato: not being members of both
You: Oh, so the SC is just Ulrika, Kathy and myself?
You: Hmm
Sudane Erato: so, you are the question : )
You: oh well, either I'm here in the RA, or in the SC
Sudane Erato: : )
Sudane Erato: anyway, we should adjourn
Roberta Dalek: yes
You: Ok, the best I can do is to do a post on the forums about the Acting Leadership of the SC, and that's all.
Roberta Dalek: thank you all for coming
Sudane Erato: yw
You: thanks a lot everybody