Poll: Should the Government of Neualtenburg evolve?

This is me trying to figure out how to make a poll. It's a real poll, and I am interested in the results (if it works), but don't laugh if it doesn't okay?

The idea here is that we have a situation where some of the "founders" (in fact several of them) are still around and a part of Neualtenburg political life.

Some of these people (as is their right), seem to do their best to make sure that the government remains absolutely true to the basic principles and forms they originally laid out "in the early days."

So my question is... does everyone agree with that?

Do you think in general that we have the perfect political system here and that we need not change it nor compare it to other RL political systems? Are you open to change?

Technically, operating outside of or replacing the founding documents is a violation of the agreement members made with the cooperative when joining. To do this, the group would have to agree to invalidate all contracts and then have individuals recommit to a new contract. This RL cooperative-level contract was created specifically to bind individuals to the law (marginally successful) and prevent the circumvention of the founding documents. This is stated in Article IV Section 1.

(I just noticed the roman numerals were borked in the wiki version of the constitution.)

~Ulrika~

Just to clarify, I am talking about the natural, slow evolution of government through agreed upon modifications to the founding documents. I have no agenda in mind for "changing things overnight" or anything of that nature.

To be even clearer, I just voted so you can see my preference (4th option).

Some of the things like we have been talking about lately (how seats are allocated, the workings of party systems and so forth), do differ in our system from various governmental setups in RL that also differ from each other. German parliamentary setup is one way, English another, and the is US different again.

I am just curious as to whether people are into looking at other systems or other ways of doing things in a general sort of way, or if we believe that we have pretty much "got things right" already.

Personally, there are some things in our setup that I find superior to other RL setups like the Borda ranking system and some aspects of the SC. Yet there are others that I think will ultimately have to change if only because of the necessary process of working out conflicts between the various founding documents.

I also wanted to post a reminder that democracy is simply formalized mob rule. It's the very thing that allows this government to violate the constitution, misinterpret the bill of rights, break a law or two, and engage in the unauthorized reproduction and distribution of another's work without ramification. Instead one should seek liberty, fellowship, equality, and justice applied universally to all individuals, especially unpopular minorities. There will be no successful government in SL until a minority voice receives the same due process as a member of a government and right now N'burg doesn't even come close to this.

~Ulrika~

without reading anything except the poll title...

do you think the government can avoid it ?

I took the middle ground, being the centrist bobblehead that I am. *Ribbit*

We're too small to survive a revolution at the moment. The drama would probably lose us what little is left. That's the reason #4 is out for me. #4 is everyone's ideal here, and it was the goal at the founding. I think we have to work at it incrementally with small tweaks and big ideas, but from within the system.

This could happen quicker if we got quick SC decisions, or if we could get through full agendas at RA and SC meetings.

-Block impeachment opinion holds up modified Pat '62 amendment compromise
-Forum Moderator ruling holds up the forum moderation regime bill
-I'm waiting for a SC opinion because I don't officially know if I'm on the RA (Gywn?)

Maybe we can pay SC members a salary. (?)
I'm at the point where I don't care what the decisions are as long as we get them so we can move ahead. Swing that gavel!

Heck you could even throw your weight around and "legislate from the bench".

The SC has been paralyzed for weeks, not only in regards to the issues you've mentioned but my grievances as well. Much of it has to do with the use of the world's slowest and least technically accurate method of communication -- in-world meetings (3D instant messaging) as opposed to a forum, a wiki, or email. The decision to use 3D IMs is due to in part to ideological beliefs on how a virtual government should be run (in world only); the fracturing of the forums and reliance on behind the scenes email; and an SC absence from the forums to avoid criticism for recent poor decisions made.

If I were still in the SC, most of the issues would have been sorted out in a week. (This can be both a good and bad thing.)

~Ulrika~

Certainly it should evolve. The question is -- should it devolve?

Ah! We've solved that long ago in Caledon.

Anyone will summarily get the boot if they are being thoroughly obnoxious enough.

Aa few known, reliable residents have estate powers, and can ban ME should I become tipsy and unruly as well. (and oooh trust me, they would)

See, same due process!


They would likely ban me just until I had slept it off, pretty much just like anyone else as well...

Due process is definitely not "anyone will summarily get the boot if they are being thoroughly obnoxious enough."

~Ulrika~

Although typing takes about three times as long as talking, reading is about 10 times faster than listening...

What you're suggesting is that in real life, governments should do all their sessions on the newspapers, the tabloids, the magazines, radio and TV, instead of sitting in public sessions at defined hours? Or just that virtual government should do that?

What "ideological beliefs"? Some of us (around 233,000 people in fact) indeed seem to "believe" that Second Life is a rather good communication platform, while obviously also assuming that it's not perfect.

I thus wonder why you bother to log in to SL at all. You could run your own government setting up a forum and posting nice pictures done on Photoshop (or something similar) on a web site, and discuss how the web site should look like. The net effect would be about the same. You wouldn't require to log in to SL at all. What would be the point?

The lessons learned about using a mix of IMs, email, and other tools is that virtual government, no matter the form, needs a period of adaptation by all its members and population, to see what tools work best for specific purposes in certain situations. It's fine if some are unwilling to adapt; it's part of a process that can be slow for some, impossible to attain by others, but becomes as natural as breathing and drinking for others.

But obviously I'm not interested in proselytising — people either accept SL as a valid medium for these types of projects, or they don't. After all, 233,000 can all be wrong — they're hardly representative of the (real) world population. We'll just have to wait another decade to see if these 233,000 are right or wrong, it's even too early to make any bets!



I'm sure you would sort out most things in a week; it's very easy if you're not willing to compromise, and hold a key position where you can speak with authority without the need to consult with one's peers and colleagues. Who said that dictatorships were inefficient? Rather the contrary! If you remember your classics, you'll see that the office of the dictator/tyrant was introduced to speed up processes that took too much time debating. Even nowadays you have concepts like martial law to circumvent the slow and bureaucratic processes of democracy, in extreme cases like major public disorder or wars, where fast, unchallenged decisions are required.

But once one picks a democratic process for sharing responsabilities, it also means that things that "could take a week" will now take much longer than that, just because of the sheer size of required participation... and the more important the issue, the less likely it can simply be delegated to a singular individual, but requires an enlarged majority of opinion.

Another side issue is that most inhabitants of Neualtenburg right now have to work for a living iRL, and thus most officials can only spare a few hours per day to run the City. Still, what an accomplishment for Neualtenburg, to be able to what what it has done so far, despite its limitations!

Haven't you ever wondered why in about the same time frame, Anshe's Dreamland grew from a sim to a few hundreds, while Neualtenburg is only right now planning a second sim? The answer is so simple. In Dreamland, only Anshe's word is law. That means the turnaround time for all decisions is measured in seconds, not weeks.

Democracy is slow. But we know about the alternatives, don't we?

Thankee, Gwyn; you said almost exactly what I was considering as a response, but more graciously and with fewer four-letter words than m'self.

It's always struck me as funny that while Ulrika has been omnipresent on the fora, she's rarely in-world...

In response to the criticism that the SC is moving forward too slowly you replied in two parts, the first is a discussion on the use of in-world 3D instant messaging (3DIM) and the second is a justification for the lack of SC productivity. Both parts include personal attacks (red herrings) yet lack any display of culpability or promise to reform. I should also mention that it was not just myself who commented on the slow pace but a citizen as well.

So, I'll sidestep the red herrings and simply ask again, what is it going to take to get the SC back on track? It's poor rulings (taking the "Universal" out of the bill of rights), unethical behavior (engaging in piracy), and lack of action (two-month waits on rulings) has deligitimized and paralyzed the project.


What is the solution? Maximize transparency, seek citizen involvement, and delegate. For example, there have been several wonderful forum-based discussions from citizens and noncitizens alike on how to solve the RA empty-seat problem (here's one of my posts) but they seem to die on the vine, as the SC provides no input. Encourage people to participate and then select solutions that are in spirit with the founding documents. It's easy!

~Ulrika~