Hello,
I built an object using rl sizes but it looks a bit small in sl.
What about the sizes in this world, it seems the scale is a bit bigger than the rl one no?
Col.
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Sizes in sl |
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Colomben Bailey
Registered User
Join date: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 4
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04-13-2007 23:39
Hello,
I built an object using rl sizes but it looks a bit small in sl. What about the sizes in this world, it seems the scale is a bit bigger than the rl one no? Col. |
Simil Miles
Creator
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Posts: 300
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04-14-2007 04:25
I don't know what the ratio is, but it exists to compensate the fact that the 3D engine (havoc) doesn't (entirely) support objects with a size below 0.01 (or over 10.0), so for example the default size for a male avatar is 2.0
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Winter Ventura
Eclectic Randomness
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04-14-2007 07:06
I have found that the "optimal" scale for SL is about 1.3 - 1.15 : 1
ergo if the real life object is 1meter long... make it 1.15-1.3 meters long in SL. 1.15 seems to be the avatar scale. 1.3 seems to be the building scale. (if your buildings are a tad larger than they "should" be, then the follow cam will be happier). inversely, the smaller you make vehicles, the better they will perform. You can drive a smaller car slower, and still "feel" like you're driving the same speed. slower speed, easier on the client, and on the server.. making it easier to drive. _____________________
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Learjeff Innis
musician & coder
Join date: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 817
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04-14-2007 08:09
It's mostly a matter of proportion, with several factors that tend to using larger sizes for spaces and objects.
1) Most people like to be tall, so they set their heights to correspond to well over 6 or 7 feet. If you were 7 feet tall in RL, your normal-sized objects would look about right. 2) In SL, very high ceilings are necessary because of the way the default view hovers above and behind your avatar -- and when you want to see more, the view is often even higher above your avatar. Since the ceilings are higher, the rest of the building needs to be scaled accordingly, to look reasonable. 3) In RL, we don't have trouble seeing when walls are nearby, but in SL, we do (e.g., when facing away from the wall, it's uncomfortable to stand very close to the wall). This doesn't have a big impact on large gathering spaces, but in a small home it's very significant. So, an RL bedroom of 4x4 M feels spacious, whereas in SL it is rather cramped. Add a couple 7 foot avatars and it feels really small! Interesting point about vehicles, Winter! No dout there are other cases in SL where things are smaller than scale, simply because it's possible or convenient to do so. After all, we don't really worry much about leg room in an SL vehicle, since if our feet stick into the engine compartment, we don't even notice. Not to mention the fact that the engine compartment is purely for show. |
Chosen Few
Alpha Channel Slave
Join date: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 7,496
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04-14-2007 08:13
I generally build at a scale somewhere between 1.25:1 and 1.5:1. Meters in SL unfortunately are smaller than meters in RL. Here's an analysis of this that I posted in another thread on this subject a while back:
Items aren't too big. Meters are too small. Seriously, no kidding. I'll throw in my two cents about what constitutes "proportional". There are three main factors to consider when deciding what size to make your builds, avatar height, camera angle, and navigation. I'll take them one at a time. Avatar Height Avatar height has been a problem since day one in SL. Whomever it was at LL who built the first avatar really dropped the ball on sizing. It's clear that the avatar department at the time wasn't in very good communication with the land department because the two are basically from different planets, size wise. It's very difficult, if not downright impossible, to give your avatar correct human body proportions if its height is "normal", as measured in meters. For example, the avatar I wear most often is a replica of Seven of Nine from Star Trek. In RL, the actress in costume is 5'11", or 1.8 meters, in height (yes, she's tall for a woman to begin with, and they've got her in some pretty impressive heals). To get her body shape right in SL, I stood the av in front of a full body photo of the character, so I could adjust the sliders for a precise match of her actual proportions. At the 1.8 meter height, it just couldn't work. There was simply no way to duplicate the actress's hourglass figure properly without making her taller. The sliders don't have enough range. To make it work, I had to increase the height to about 2.28 meters. So, I either have to live with her being 7 and half feet tall, or else have her look wrong. I'd rather have her look right. Obviously, it follows that every piece of furniture I build for her has to be similarly upsized to match. The same body proportion limitations are present in all avatars, of course, which means most people in SL are freakishly tall. Again, it follows then that most furniture, rooms, doorways, props, etc, also need to be "too big". A generally safe ratio tends to fall somewhere between 1.25 to 1 and 1.5 to 1. Camera Angle The next factor is camera angle. Unlike in the real world in which you're always seeing everything from eye level, in SL your point of view is usually quite high. Ceilings that are any lower than about 3.5 to 4 meters off the floor tend to interfere with most people's cameras pretty heavily. Of course, anyone can simply move his or her camera around to compensate, but most people are not very good at that, unfortunately. Considering that real ceilings are usually around 2.3 meters above the floor, the 3.5 meter minimum in SL gives you a ratio of about 1.5 to 1. If you want to keep your buildings proportional to SL's "eye level", they should be about 50% bigger than "normal". Navigation Finally, you also have to account for people's clumsy navigation skills. Most people really suck at walking and flying around, especially if they have to contend with a low frame rate, which most people do. It takes a really gentle touch to move around in SL with any degree of precision. Most people have a lot of trouble with that. So, to allow people to move around inside your buildings, you have to build in some extra elbow room. For this, again, 1.5 to 1 is generally a safe ratio. Conclusions To sum it up, I think it's a bit naive to say that almost everything in SL is out of proportion. It would be far more accurate to say that just one thing is disproportionate, the unit of measure itself. When you factor in all of the above, it becomes pretty easy to see that meters in SL are actually about one third smaller than meters in RL. Look at it that way, and everything else seems to match up pretty well. So, when you're building in SL, give yourself 50% more little SL meters, and your creations' sizes will line up pretty well with the amount of larger RL meters that are in their analogous RL items. _____________________
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Fiona Branagh
... or her equivalent.
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04-14-2007 12:12
I know for me, the oversized objects throw me off.
I built my avatar to a pretty normal height, and I like how she looks at that height (about 5'7" ![]() When my avatar walks near these gargantuan tables, drawers, etc., it makes me feel like I'm living among brobdinagians and messes with my suspension of disbelief. Sitting on nearly any couch is an exercise in absolute comedy. I resize everything I put in my house, and actually get a sense of relief from being surrounded by normal looking stuff even if the house is extraordinarily spacious for a cottage. It may be that as an artist, I'm more sensitive to the relation of object size than most people, but this has been a sticking point for me in most 3D games that tend to make the height of a stone step equate to ankle-to-knee proportions. While I understand the need for some fudging for the reasons stated, I think it's gone well out of hand in SL for the most part. What's the point of having an 8 foot avatar when everything is sized up to fit it? I would think someone building an avatar that big WANTS to look big (with the rare exceptions such as the borg example earlier in this thread) and having the world scaled upward defeats that purpose. |
Sabrina Doolittle
Registered User
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04-14-2007 13:21
Fiona has alluded to what the real problem is. It is not the size or height of the avatar per se. It is the camera angle. If the ceilings in a room are not at LEAST 6m high, preferably 7 or 8 meters, you get that awful clausterphobic tunner effect where what covers most of your screen in a given room is floor and ceiling.
If a room is 8 meters high, this will tend to dictate the scale of the rest of the build. _____________________
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Chosen Few
Alpha Channel Slave
Join date: 16 Jan 2004
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04-14-2007 19:17
I agree with you in principle, Sabrina, about the importance of camera clearance, but 8 meter ceilings? Don't you find that a tad excessive? Most people go with 4 or 5 meters, and it works just great. Really, you can go as low as 3.5 before it starts interfering with most people's cameras.
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Ace Albion
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04-16-2007 01:42
My ceilings are usually between 4.25 and 5 meters, taller if it's a void past a loft bedroom area obviously. I don't see the ceiling unless I look upwards. I have a tall four poster bed I use to make sure I leave enough height for that kind of thing (though people still manage to build six metre tall beds...)
For furniture I wear my most stackiest high heel boots to determine floor clearance, and figure thats ok for other more typical avatars (I'm about Fiona's height in SL). It's annoying because in the real world people can be under 5 feet tall or over 6 feet, and not look like children or giants sitting on the same furniture. _____________________
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Porky Gorky
Temperamentalalistical
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04-16-2007 06:31
As a prefab builder, proportion is always a problem, way back when i was doing my first few builds I used 2 different sized av's to test the proportions of the build, one max hieght and one about 5"5. You then need to find a happy medium between the 2 sizes with regards to ceiling heights, doors, staircases, bottoms of window frames etc in order to make the build as acessable to as large a qty of people as possible. You still cannot always win though, some av's are no bigger than the size of my shoe and the other day I had a butterfly in my showroom asking if i had anything suitable! Nowadays i dont fret about it. Everything is built for av's at around the 6ft mark, ceilings are never lower than 4.5m to allow camera movement and I dont get any complaints. If an Avatar is of abnormal size then its their responsiblility to find suitablly proportioned objects or get them custom made. i would never give a refund to someone because a build was too over/under proportioned in relation to their avatar
Never bothered looking, but I should think there is already a niche market out there for smaller av's and the furbies etc _____________________
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Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
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04-16-2007 06:59
As noted in many other threads, another distortion factor is that the LSL call for determing avatar height, used by virtually all of the freebie avatar height rulers, is a measure of eye level, not the top of your head. Great for positioning a mouselook camera - lousy for determining how tall you are. But since the vast majority of people who make any atempt at making their avatar "realistic" in height rely on those avatar rulers, they still end up too tall.
I use 1.25 to 1 as the scaling factor on furnishings and most stuff the avatar interacts with directly (which makes a standard SexGen mattress about a Queen Sized bed), and 1.5 to 1 for buildings. I generally use 5 meter ceiling heights, as that is just enough to allow someone to TP to your location and not get trapped in the attic. This equates to about a 14 foot ceiling height in RL, like many Victorina era homes had. The shortest ceiling height I have used is 3 meters, and that is for a Japanese Tea House that is intended to have low ceilings, and for everyone inside to be kneeling most of the time. It works well, at 6 Meters on a side for the floor area, but it's impossible to TP into the space. _____________________
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Porky Gorky
Temperamentalalistical
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04-16-2007 08:47
well im 6"6 in rl and had a nightmare when i went to Japan, couldnt stand up straight most the time I was there so at least your tea rooms are authentic
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