Second Life Forums Archive - LL Suggests Stealing Builder's Work Is A Good Thing

Moleculor Satyr

Fireflies!

Join date: 5 Jan 2004

Posts: 2,650

10-16-2004 08:45

Just thought that any of you builders that have missed some of the less-advertised goings-on lately should know, LL's suggesting implimenting yet another new permissions system that would enable people to easily copy your works.

Link

Chances are with the outpouring of negative responses, it won't see the light of day, but there are one or two people still supporting this, so be sure to head on over and voice your opinion!

However, be SURE to NOT take my word for it! Read the posts and the blog yourself. We might all be wildly misunderstanding the proposed system. Who knows?

_____________________

</sarcasm>

Chip Midnight

ate my baby!

Join date: 1 May 2003

Posts: 10,231

10-16-2004 10:09

I agree, Mole. I'm trying to reserve my reactions until it's explained in more detail, but as of right now it seems to ignore all the reasons we've been pleading for an overhauled premission system in the first place... to make theft more difficult, not easier. It leaves me scratching my head in bewilderment.

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Archaegeo Platini

Ancient Earth University

Join date: 12 Aug 2004

Posts: 152

10-16-2004 10:19

Their idea, as i read it, is so its easier for others to learn from existing items, making SL a nice utopia, where everyone creates and shares equally.

Well, if we are going to do that, get rid of land taxes and monthly fees too. Then it can be a nice happy place

But i came to SL specificaly because of the IP rights. Now as a scripter, apparently my scripts will still be safe, but heaven forbid i want them working in a unique build.

_____________________

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Ancient Earth University

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Nephilaine Protagonist

PixelSlinger

Join date: 22 Jul 2003

Posts: 1,693

10-16-2004 11:35

I too am trying to hold any judgement on whether or not this is a worthy system until i understand all the details, BUT....I have a huge concern right now about LL's ability to keep this permissions system bug-free. The current system seems to have had issues with items buggily changing thier own perms after transfer, after vending from object, randomly in inventory, I've seen the little bastards do it ALL.
The perms we have now are relatively simple, and they DONT WORK RELIABLY. How are we not supposed to be nervous about a much more complicated system in light of the fact that the much simpler one has been allowed to remain so broken for so long?

_____________________

blaze Spinnaker

1/2 Serious

Join date: 12 Aug 2004

Posts: 5,898

10-16-2004 12:30

This is an excellent point. One of the underlying weaknesses to what's being proposed is that it is overly complicated which will easily lead to 'hacks' which can let easily let clever users break the system.

_____________________

Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."

Huns Valen

Don't PM me here.

Join date: 3 May 2003

Posts: 2,749

10-20-2004 11:29

That thread is TFL. Interesting from an academic perspective, but Cory is due to release v. 2 of the proposal today, and it is a lot more amenable to the rights of creators.

_____________________

[ huns? || words || 1TBS KREW || VHI Aircraft || Whitepaper on Aircraft Physics ]

Make yourself and your objects immune to llPushObject().

Tiger Crossing

The Prim Maker

Join date: 18 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,560

10-20-2004 11:38

Yes, he's already said that the new design allows the creator to lock the wrapper so that it can't be broken.

Seening as how a new permissions system isn't planned to go in until the begining of next SUMMER at the earliest, there's no point turning on the complain machine yet. Better to give constructive comments, since constructing hasn't even begin yet. This is still early EARLY design.

Those people that more often feel that Linden Lab is doing things wrong should be ecstatic at the amount of time they are giving us to help craft a new system of permissions. It's unprescedented and a GOOD thing.

_____________________

~ Tiger Crossing
~ (Nonsanity)

LL Suggests Stealing Builder's Work Is A Good Thing
Moleculor Satyr Fireflies! Join date: 5 Jan 2004 Posts: 2,650	10-16-2004 08:45 Just thought that any of you builders that have missed some of the less-advertised goings-on lately should know, LL's suggesting implimenting yet another new permissions system that would enable people to easily copy your works. Link Chances are with the outpouring of negative responses, it won't see the light of day, but there are one or two people still supporting this, so be sure to head on over and voice your opinion! However, be SURE to NOT take my word for it! Read the posts and the blog yourself. We might all be wildly misunderstanding the proposed system. Who knows? _____________________ </sarcasm>
Chip Midnight ate my baby! Join date: 1 May 2003 Posts: 10,231	10-16-2004 10:09 I agree, Mole. I'm trying to reserve my reactions until it's explained in more detail, but as of right now it seems to ignore all the reasons we've been pleading for an overhauled premission system in the first place... to make theft more difficult, not easier. It leaves me scratching my head in bewilderment. _____________________ My other hobby: www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight
Archaegeo Platini Ancient Earth University Join date: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 152	10-16-2004 10:19 Their idea, as i read it, is so its easier for others to learn from existing items, making SL a nice utopia, where everyone creates and shares equally. Well, if we are going to do that, get rid of land taxes and monthly fees too. Then it can be a nice happy place But i came to SL specificaly because of the IP rights. Now as a scripter, apparently my scripts will still be safe, but heaven forbid i want them working in a unique build. _____________________ =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Dean Archaegeo Platini Ancient Earth University Courses for the Second Life secondlife://Sedig/211/46 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Nephilaine Protagonist PixelSlinger Join date: 22 Jul 2003 Posts: 1,693	10-16-2004 11:35 I too am trying to hold any judgement on whether or not this is a worthy system until i understand all the details, BUT....I have a huge concern right now about LL's ability to keep this permissions system bug-free. The current system seems to have had issues with items buggily changing thier own perms after transfer, after vending from object, randomly in inventory, I've seen the little bastards do it ALL. The perms we have now are relatively simple, and they DONT WORK RELIABLY. How are we not supposed to be nervous about a much more complicated system in light of the fact that the much simpler one has been allowed to remain so broken for so long? _____________________
blaze Spinnaker 1/2 Serious Join date: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 5,898	10-16-2004 12:30 This is an excellent point. One of the underlying weaknesses to what's being proposed is that it is overly complicated which will easily lead to 'hacks' which can let easily let clever users break the system. _____________________ Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : "User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Huns Valen Don't PM me here. Join date: 3 May 2003 Posts: 2,749	10-20-2004 11:29 That thread is TFL. Interesting from an academic perspective, but Cory is due to release v. 2 of the proposal today, and it is a lot more amenable to the rights of creators. _____________________ [ huns? \|\| words \|\| 1TBS KREW \|\| VHI Aircraft \|\| Whitepaper on Aircraft Physics ] Make yourself and your objects immune to llPushObject().
Tiger Crossing The Prim Maker Join date: 18 Aug 2003 Posts: 1,560	10-20-2004 11:38 Yes, he's already said that the new design allows the creator to lock the wrapper so that it can't be broken. Seening as how a new permissions system isn't planned to go in until the begining of next SUMMER at the earliest, there's no point turning on the complain machine yet. Better to give constructive comments, since constructing hasn't even begin yet. This is still early EARLY design. Those people that more often feel that Linden Lab is doing things wrong should be ecstatic at the amount of time they are giving us to help craft a new system of permissions. It's unprescedented and a GOOD thing. _____________________ ~ Tiger Crossing ~ (Nonsanity)

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LL Suggests Stealing Builder's Work Is A Good Thing