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Building is Quasi-FUBARred, Said Quasimodo

Lumiere Noir
Ivory Tower Dweller
Join date: 25 Dec 2003
Posts: 212
06-22-2004 11:00
Since there's no longer a bug forum, I guess this should go here...along with a filed bug report.

I've noticed that it's been getting harder and harder to link two prims at a distance. The limit on linking is 30 meters. But try linking two prims that are 10 meters apart.

E1..........E2 (no link)

Legend:
E = prim at one extreme (1 or 2)
. = one meter of distance

You won't be able to, not without putting a medial prim (M) between them as a link extender and then; link one of the prims at one extreme to it, and then link both of those to the prim at the other extreme.

E1.....M.....E2 (linkable? No!)

Link E1 to M, then E1+M to E2

Legend:
E = prim at one extreme (1 or 2)
M = medial prim (link extender)
. = one meter of distance

This is a simplification of the problem because actually you will need two link extenders to link two objects 10 meters away.

E1...M1...M2...E2 (linkable!!! ??? Yes!!!)

Link E1 to M1, then E1+M1 to M2 and finally link E1+M1+M2 to E2.


I built a building last week in which I had to do this extensively, but prims did link within 10 meters then. Today, there seems to be a limit of 3 meters distance between linked prims.

I sure 'nuff hope this is a bug!

Also, when a prim is manipulated today, it frequently snaps back to its original state or texture several times before it will take on the changes I want to impose upon it.

Additionally, rotations are still very buggy. Rotating a prim on one axis sure does scramble the rotations of the other axies. This is a problem of long standing, but it seems worse now. Either that or I had just gotten used to dealing with radiens...but I swear what used to be 180 degrees now seems to be 270 degrees these days on the builder interface.

That's all I've observed over the last few days. Paradigm Brodsky and I were trying out the link limits this morning and he had the same results. Has anyone else run into this?

Filing bug report now.


Lumi
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Talen Morgan
Amused
Join date: 2 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,097
06-22-2004 11:21
I've been having the exact same problems.

Rotations have also shifted on me after coming out of edit.
Orlando Mars
Registered User
Join date: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 73
06-22-2004 11:24
Lum:
Thank god you posted this - I thought I was going mad! I have a dance floor thats linked to a controller swicth on a balcony. Yesterday I could link and unlink at will, today - every time I unlink, I can't seem to relink it back in. I just moved the switch closer and now it seems to work again! :(
Lumiere Noir
Ivory Tower Dweller
Join date: 25 Dec 2003
Posts: 212
06-22-2004 15:25
Talked with Kelly Linden about this, she contacted me to follow up on my bug report, and I have some startling findings to report. Startling to me at any rate.

I didn't know this, but link distance is dependant on how large the prims are that are being linked. Two 10X10X10 meter cubes can indeed be linked at a distance of up to 31 meters (as measured from their centers, not their faces). However, according to Kelly, two half meter cubes will link at a distance of about 4.5 meters...which is borne out with my experiments...I found it to be 4.3 meters.

Anyway, I was very surprised to learn this...and I've updated the Ivory Tower to reflect it :-)

Lumi
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Larissa Lomax
Registered User
Join date: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 187
06-23-2004 07:15
Question :) which seems to be linked to this thread somehow.

I assume this is something to do with the linking objects at distance thing, but the objects I'm talking about are actually all touching each other. But I'm still getting a message that I cannot link them because the pieces are too far apart.

Or is this a bug?

Larissa
Grim Lupis
Dark Wolf
Join date: 11 Jul 2003
Posts: 762
06-23-2004 07:45
Larissa, how far apart and how big are the two pieces in the set that are farthest away from each other?
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Grim

"God only made a few perfect heads, the rest of them he put hair on." -- Unknown
Larissa Lomax
Registered User
Join date: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 187
06-23-2004 08:08
Grim, I am building some large stairs leading up to my property, the deck parts are 10x10 and there are two in each section, linked with some small columns between them. There are four of the deck sections and two columns between each deck. I estimate the columns are no more than 20m apart, I can't say how big the columns are until SL comes back up so I can look :)

Now I can understand not being able to link sections like this that are not touching but why can't I link them when they are all touching?

Larissa
Grim Lupis
Dark Wolf
Join date: 11 Jul 2003
Posts: 762
06-23-2004 08:31
If you have small pieces in the set (like steps) they may need to be linked in a specific order.

Even though we don't really know what the link order is, except for the parent prim, there's still an order that items are linked. Probably in the order they're selected.

So, if the first two items you selected were the top step and the bottom step, considering their smaller size, they're probably too far apart to be linked. As long as they're the first two selected items in the set, no matter how many items are selected, it could cause the link to fail because one sequence of prims can't be linked.

Try linking just two prims together, then add one prim at a time to the set, and see if you can figure out which prim is causing the failure.
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Grim

"God only made a few perfect heads, the rest of them he put hair on." -- Unknown
Tiger Crossing
The Prim Maker
Join date: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 1,560
06-24-2004 07:06
From what I've been told, order shouldn't matter. If it does, then there is a bug. It should all be a function of size and distance. Think of it like gravity... Small things far away have little effect and therefore won't link. Large things can be farther away. This has been the case for ages, and is there as a limitation of the physics engine.

Will these physics size limitations be dropped or reduced sometime after Havok 2 comes online? That would be nice...

I had to do some re-design on my Deus Via chariots to make the HUD work. I made the HUD as a group of small, flat prims I hung up behind the chariot in front of where the camera would be when riding. But they were too small/far to link. I ended up having to extend all the prims back down towards to chariot to both bring their center points closer and make them larger. Then I could link. If you select a chariot there, you'll see them hanging up in the air behind it.
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Remo Yossarian
Registered User
Join date: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 121
06-24-2004 11:44
I think I have a workaround for the morphing prims.

This is not completely tested but I have noticed an big improvement by doing this.

If you get prims that snap back to their original rotation / position / size try this:

1) Manipulate the prim
2) Once you have manipulated the prim to the way you want it stay in your current edit mode for at least two seconds.

examples:

a) If you are dragging a corner of a bounding box to resize something, hold that corner in the position you want for two or more seconds then release it.

b) If you are moving an object with the arrows drag the object to where you want it, then continue to hold on to the arrows, as if you were holding the object in place, for at least 2 seconds. The same game goes for rotation.

I have even tried this with the numeric entry boxes. Enter your number into a field then stay in that field for 2 or more seconds. Then leave/save that field by switching to another field.

Let me know if this works for you


My Hypothesis:

I think the “reverting prims bug” is network lag/communications related. The server is not seeing you change things on the client due to data transmission rates or data type priority (LL messed with this stuff in 1.4) Holding your object where you want it gives the server a chance to be informed of what you are seeing on your client, and accept it. (hehe, as you can tell I am not a computer guy)

I was seeing this happen a bit prior to 1.4. It always seemed like lag to me.