no right of free speech!

Hello Katt Linden thank you for threaten thos how say ther are oter worlds out ther with beeing baned!

It was you and ur Linden friends how made us look for other options then SL so be fair to us when we talk about them.

Maybe you should start to care for the SL community.

sadly it is their forum, they can limit speach as much as they want, could always try a 3th party forum where they have no controll

The First Amendment protects from infringement of free speech by the government, not by individuals or corporations.

we had things like 'ban'. was in Giordano Bruno-, Kopernikus-, Gallileo-, Luther - times, so called ban-speeches, made by some popes in Rome, somewhere back in year tobacco and snow, maybe 500 years ago. Ah, good old history. Some shadows of it, are still alive.

But it would be nice for those that have been suspended to at least know why we have been, while others posting certainly worse than i did are still on the forums lol Well i await the outcome to my ticket i submitted to find out why i did not get a warning, nor an email saying i was suspended and for how long lol

Having difficulty following this. You were banned because you posted in the forums about other worlds similar to SL and suggested people go there instead of here? If that is the case then that's considering advertising (like posting one of those viagara links) and is not allowed.

Yes, I do know people post about other worlds here . But they disguise the advertisement in the form of a discussion or comparison.

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I know and thinly disguising is no better than being upfront about what you are doing and talking about your experience on another grid at no time did i advocate anyone leaving as we use SL to advertise our RL business and LL supported these other projects until it seems recently. Frankly I hate double standards that LL display and you yourself are advocating people to apply pressure via blogs so as always each to their own, but frankly i want people to stay and join SL as its the cheapest worldwide advertising platform our company uses, but options are always good for all people.

SL doesn't really cost me anything as its a tax deductible expense as some of our advertising budget and we are VAT registered as a company, so frankly i don't care that much, as we will stay with SL until costs per new member for our business become prohibitive and as in all good business we will adapt to the market within the budgets we have set for here.

If you encourage people here to quit here and use an alternative system, you deserve to be suspended or banned from here. You wouldn't last long anywhere with posts like that.

Phil - we do not have to personally attack every controversial poster just to watch them flame out. He is right that there has been many advertisements for other worlds in these forums lately and I do not think any of those people were reprimanded in any way. His posts may have been a bit too angry for the Lindens. But they do owe him a real explanation as to how his post was far worst than any of the other ads for other worlds.

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I haven't attacked anyone in this thread. If he did what he says he did, then he deserves to be suspended or banned from this forum. It's not an attack. It's the same as a store owner going into a competitor's store and handing his/her store's LMs out to the competitor's customers. No store owner would tolerate that.

To be honest, I've been surprised how much of that sort of thing LL has put up with recently, but just because some people do it doesn't make it ok for others to do it.

I love the fact it took Linden labs over TWO WEEKS to even notice that post. Amazing.. just amazing...

I was infuriated when I saw the way LL has just closed the forum on the OS rate hike. We can see even more, how much LL cares about their clients. There have been many corporations who have taken this kind of route, and lets name all of them who did, and are still in business going strong.1. 2. 3. ?___________________________________ oh yeah, they all are out of business today.

Thanks for caring so much, LL

I appear to still be able to post, however I haven't said anything which can be seen as a solicitation to leave SL and go elsewhere. I've just given my own experience and called it as I see it. Wonder where the line is? Maybe if we go get some popcorn and drinks enlightenment will follow (that's the one I can't forgive and forget I'm afraid - business choices no matter how cackhanded are still business choices - making such a crass comment when surely expecting inflammatory responses ... well ...).

I've always said that LL do encourage free speech and I will give them that, they do. They just never listen to it, don't understand it and don't realise that they shoot themselves in the foot more and more these days.

Ultimately the people they will hurt most are their backers and investors if the whole thing goes pop. It won't tho cos there's ALWAYS someone new to replace those that left.

no advertising for competing or simular organisations is a very normal rule on forums...same as it's "not done" to mention names.

Bernard is correct, it's simply not appropriate to advertise non Second Life goods or services in the forums, and of course classified ads are restricted to the Classifieds section of the forums regardless.

Thanks!
-- Katt

Well Katt my piont is that the actions of Linden Lab made us look for somting else!

If you Lindens would care about us we wouldnt dare to look for alternatives.
Yes i know its ageinst your ruels but you brought this on yourself.

OMG, how many companies out there would allow someone to use their space to advertise a competitor?

When was the last time you went in to a movie cinema and attacked the employees for increasing their prices? Or the local supermarket protesting the price of toothpaste. Or everyone's favourite, when did you barge into an oil company and rant and rave about the price of fuel? Are you one of those people that rings customer complaint lines and screams down the phone that the colour of the packaging used to be blue and now it's green and you don't like it?

LL provides a forum where feedback and discussion can happen. So why use that opportunity to attack the employees?

Yes, look somewhere else. Find a product that meets your needs and is in your price range and then enjoy it. That's what competition is all about. If it was such a great alternative though you wouldn't still be here throwing a temper tantrum, you'd be there enjoying your new found game.

Yea that.

I agree there Katt and accepted the suspension of my main account humbly as i was in the wrong under the forum rules and i am not going to disagree there or here. However my questions and IM have gone unanswered at no time was i sent an email or even a formal warning first about it where i could have removed the posts.

I have spoken with concierge a few times on sim matters and 3 separate Lindens informed me my issue was up for review although still no reply from you when one said that the person dealing with it was at work on Saturday. Ah well you have your reasons for not notifying me etc. via email and i will not post about the matter again, but 4 days being ignored is not fun. If we suspend a member on our forums on our website we tell them why and for how long and give them the right to appeal and acknowledge their requests, but we only have 5000 members so not to many to deal with.

I see others continue posting but as far as i am concerned i am sorry i overstepped the mark but what made me cross is the attitude with which i was dealt with thats all. But i have far more important things in RL to worry about than a suspension here.

I wont post again as i did and take this as a public apology for posting as i did about another grid and thank you for allowing me to at least post with my alt and i haven't abused that either here.

Lord Sullivan

Then why is this sort of thing allowed? what myself and others did was no different to what this poster does?

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Im not going to look for all the other posts from this poster but they regularly advertise this platform in the Secondlife forums. seems to me one rule for one and one rule for another, now tell me that LL acts fairly

President has been established...LL was thrilled about the prospect of connecting their world to others...discussions about the benefits of this arraignment and the efficacy of these other simulators would be appropriate. LL is engaging in situational ethics at the moment in an attempt at damage control. At worst, these threads should simply have been moved to the appropriate discussion, what is happening now is reactionary and unbecoming.

And while I do agree that free speech is limited to those who own the press/forum, the way that the speech of your customers is administered to speaks volumes about your company...so what are you trying to tell us Linden Labs? Because sadly, right now it sounds like you are just trying to cover your recent mistakes and past indiscretions...

As for the "if you don't love it, leave it" type posts here...way to go! First of all, we all know that there is no viable alternative to SL (at the moment - come on, LL knows that these other virtual worlds can't compete with them at the moment). LL currently has a monopoly on this type of simulated reality. So when the company makes discussion based on the knowledge that their customers have no alternative, this can cause ill will.

Now I'm not blaming LL for being a monopoly...they had the insight and the chutzpa to invest and develop this market, they are to be applauded, but their market position requires them to behave more ethically and responsibly in dealing with their customers...There isn't an easy solution to this subject, but LL is the party who created this mess, and part of their responsibility is going to be to cut their customers some slack on the anger and betrayal they are experiencing...move threads and warn posters...don't get petty with your customers because of your mistakes, LL.

Very well put and as of time of posting I have just received an answer back from my ticket and i quote



So it looks like the ball is back in your court Katt although it never truly left it. So can I at least have the courtesy of an answer, as i have politely requested in game as to how long etc. i have been penalised for this issue and please i respectfully request why do others as shown above get totally left alone? thats the sad thing about all of this imho.

Well at least LL have shown their true colours and i know where as a customer i now stand with them and i can arrange things accordingly.

I'm actualy a bit surpriced katt didn't close this topic yet, discusing a single suspention is not alowed in the forum eventho I fully understand it's very frustrating and unprofecional from katt's side not to respond but sadly your only rule abiding way is to talk to katt in private, have you tried sending her a notecard? her IM's might be capped, altough some lindens seem to ignore notecards others are very responcive to them.

No one may post advertisements for non Second Life related goods or services in the forums, and any ads do belong in the Classifieds.

Thanks.