Questions about Open Spaces and Contracts

Full disclosure, I do not own an open space sim.

But from a legal standpoint and a foundation of trust I think LL is making a major mistake by changing the prices of all open space sims.

Here are my questions:


These people paid you money up front, are you going to refund this for people who now want to drop their open spaces because you changed the cost? If not why should we not conclude this is "bait-and-switch"?

Why are existing owners not being grandfathered? (This is a biggie that points to profits > users)

The users have used the open space sims for more than you expected them too, is that their fault or LL's failure for not testing this possibility before rolling out hundreds of open spaces?

Have you provided useful tools so users (Not just estate managers) know how much impact they are having on a sim? Are landowners able to limit users by attachment cost?


I feel this is a price increase driven more by profits using the users as the scapegoats to justify the increase. But, I am open to listen to responses with an open mind.

Thanks

Well said, Lasivian.

I got a strong feeling that the real issue is that Linden Labs and Land Barrons want their overpriced mainland to sell.

With the opening of Nautilus and with the slowing of sales of Land Barron owned land triggered this.

After all, with the option of private estates offering cheaper land for private homes upset the housing market and brought back some control to the end user. After all, asking 80,000L for a 512 lot on the mainland is unacceptable. Not to mention dealing with neighbors again on the mainland has pushed me to decide to quit SL entirely.

That one's pretty easy to answer: because (many, many, from what Jack says) existing owners have horribly abused the system.

This will effect a lot of peoples plans...and its a shame.

And what about those who purchased their OS no more than a week ago and even so you let that transaction go through while full well knowing that you would be announcing this big fat nasty sack of greedy poo into the wild?

Thing is, LL folks aren't idiots - they *knew* this was going to happen and was just waiting for the right time to do this.

They knew there was going to be a market flood, they knew that people were going to do exactly what they are trying to convince us they are 'surprised' about.

Now, they're pulling in the reigns - no matter how the public feels - and yes, they're going to take a loss - but they *know* that there are those that are going to either hang on to the voids, or convert them to full sims.

Either way - this was certainly a bait and switch-er-roo...

They stand to make money and the rich get richer.

Can't wait to hear about the tier hikes on the full sims - I'm sure that 'discussion' is going to come up soon enough in 2009...eh, Jack?

Private Estate Full Prim Sim tiers will go to $395 or more a month starting Jan 31, 2009. Mark my words.

Good luck getting a refund from LL for recently purchased OS sims. These folks have no principles.

Did people "abuse" the system? Come on LL sets prim limits on sims and thus what can be done with them and LL has people inworld do you think they did not see how the open spaces were being used??? Still they continued to roll them out by the hundreds and were very happy to collect the $250 USD sale price on them.

Yes you are probably right Serious, just as soon as people convert thier 4 openspaces back to full sims to save the tier increase!

I'm sure you're right...bottomline is -

Happy 2009 LL Customers!

...oh btw...our 2009 business plan includes screwing you over - have a prosperous new year!

Wanna bet?

Name your price - I'll bet you're wrong.

Lindens .... you are going to kill the goose that laid the golden egg. This change is NOT acceptable!!!

I had two regular SIMs. With the advent of the Open Space SIMs, I lost almost ALL of my renters. So I adapted. I now have 13 OS sims in addition to my 2 regular sims. I am now *just* getting things back to normal on the regular sims, but they are still renting at a "loss". The OS space sims rent well for one or two renters. People can "afford" those prices. And trust me when I tell you this, I'm *only* making about $5-$10 US per month on the OS sims.

Now you come along with some specious argument that you need to raise the OS monthly tier a whole *67%*!?!? Are you freaking NUTS?!?!? You are KILLING ME!!!! My renters will leave and I'll be left holding the bag on tier for 13 OS SIMs!!!!!!! 45 days notice???

What you're doing would have you skewered in the RL ... this is NOT acceptable. How can one plan a business when you can pull this sort of crap on us??? You're going to wipe us out!!!

DO NOT implement this change!!!!!

Leave things well enough alone!!!!

My residents are extremely pleased with things just the way they are .... and LAG is NOT a problem on my SIM group.

I am so pissed right now,

Merry F'ing Christmas to you too!

Claude Kirshner .... do to be broke

How so, Meade? Are you saying that LL is *not* gunna raise their tier fee on full sims?

I'm guessing that by the 3rd Quarter they will, but I'd like to hear your thoughts.

The person I quoted assured us that LL would raise the full-sim private island tier to US$395/month at the end of January 2009.

I'm betting LL will not do this. I'll put up to, say, L$25k behind this bet, too. Find somebody reputable to hold the money in escrow and I'll match anybody who wants in. Come up with the L$ during, say, the last week of this year and I'll match it.

OIC, well not by the end of 1/09...but surely at least by the 3rd quarter. I think we can both agree it's inevitable next year.

Thanks for answering

Not necessarily.

Unlike many people here, I don't believe that LL is actively trying to screw over its customer base. It's just IMO but I don't think LL will bump up non-openspace tier until they're beyond the point of needing to. If they can keep their margins through the end of 2010, I think tier won't budge.


Yer welcome!

well i just purchased a openspace, i know alot of my friends that owns then for their residentcy, and haven't seen too much lag. my previous residence was on a double lot on a full private estate. but prim usage was limited. so i thought maybe a open space would be good to get, to give me more landspace and more prim usage so i can start to learn to build on with.

this price increase will effect me as it will with so many others. but to be completely honest, i would have to side with LL on this one. Yes, maybe they could have handled it differently. Maybe they could have came up with ways of better governing openspaces so they wasn't being used in ways they say they didn't want them used.

To my understanding a open space is to be used for just as it named, a open space, like a ocean or a forest, or a wide open desert. it is to be used as a addition to your already owned private estate.

It is not to be used as a primary resident, or for a location to a shop, or club. it states this on lydens web site itself.

now ya got people out buying up openspaces and selling them to others to make a profit off the tier payments. knowing that openspaces was not offered as a mean to buy and sell real estate. they was offered to be a extention to your already existing land, or private estate. my long term goal was to get a full private estate, then surround it with openspaces. to make oceans and forests with. this is what a open space was meant to be used for. not for land owners to buy up and sell to other members for profit.

i myself own a openspace. and i am happy with it, it to me was a good way to get a larger piece of land at a lower cost. use it as a get by. in time i have every intention of getting a full sim. but it just not in my budget right now.

reguardless, i think bottom line here, is that yes i am sure there are other ways LL could have handled this, but at same time, alot of people was using these openspaces for things they was not intended for, i have seen openspaces with clubs on them, and that is way too much usage for a openspace to have.

i seen a person state they owned 13 openspaces they was renting out to residence to be used as primary residence. well all i can say, is ya tried to beat the system, and the system beat ya back.